Rio de Janiero - 2014 Fifa World Cup Thread

[FootballLight]

First topic message reminder :

This **should** be the main article for the Fifa World Cup 2014 competition that happens in 10 days time. Lets try and keep the debate simple yet reasonable about all of the build-up, the stadiums, the countries, the players, the qualifying, the winners and most importantly, the "bought" 2022 World Cup.

Enjoy! (And... lets try and make this World Cup as good as possible considering all of the poor build-up, tragic deaths and he outrageous violence that has been happening over recent months)

[The Special Juan]

Who's overrated?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Not to mention De Bruyne's tackle (oo er)

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Who's overrated?

Belgium

[Kurt N. Jurqa]

Hopefully PSG and Monaco owners are watching this and see Fellaini and throw cash at Utd like they did for Luiz.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Fellaini changed this game

Absolute scenes

[Guest]

Whos that chap for Belgium with the stupid OTT hair?

[CFCNick]

Stoppage time away from £256. That was hairy watching. Nearly cashed out for £62 with Algeria attacking at 1-1.

[Duty281]

Good character shown by Belgium, but they will have to improve on this performance against Russia and South Korea.

That said, Hazard's pass for the winning goal was majestic.

[The Special Juan]

Who's overrated?

Belgium

I think they're rated just about right.

[Guest]

Hopefully that Fellaini goal may have increased his value by a couple of million, which puts his current value at £2 million. Another couple of good showings and may nearly get a third of our money back on him

[skyeman]

Hopefully that Fellaini goal may have increased his value by a couple of million, which puts his current value at £2 million. Another couple of good showings and may nearly get a third of our money back on him

£2.50  

[skyeman]

Apart from Torres, i can not think of one more expensive flop. Over 25 million.

[The Special Juan]

Apart from Torres, i can not think of one more expensive flop. Over 25 million.

Shevchenko. Kaka.

[Guest]

Kaka to Madrid, Denilson to Betis, Robinho at City, Juan Veron, Schevchenko at Chelsea, Andy Carroll....shall I continue?

[skyeman]

But no where as bad as Fellaini and Torres. Come on.

[CFCNick]

Kaka to Madrid, Denilson to Betis, Robinho at City, Juan Veron, Schevchenko at Chelsea, Andy Carroll....shall I continue?

Veron was under £20m. But Luiz wasn't!  

[skyeman]

Veron is not regarded as a flop at Man Utd.

[The Special Juan]

But no where as bad as Fellaini and Torres. Come on.

Torres: 107 games, 38 goals
Shevchenko: 48 games, 9 goals

[FootballLight]

Who's overrated?

Belgium

Agreed.

Belgium are definitely overrated. Why do people think they are so good? Because they have got Hazard, presumably one of the Premier League's finest players? Yes, I would agree with him being one of the Premier League's best players but Portugal have got Ronaldo and got absolutely demolished by that Germany side yesterday, with/without 10 men. They also have a few other players that are playing for good/top clubs in the Premier League, but big deal. They have some good players but not as good as what people think, for sure.

I was a little bit disappointed by the Belgium scoreline because I put £5 on Algeria to win the game. I was close as well. It wasn't just a stab bet to see if they could win and I could win a little bit of money, no not at all. I out a fiver on because I thought Algeria had a chance of winning the game because they have much more tournament experience than what Belgium do and because Belgium are overrated and I didn't think they were as good as what people make them out to be.

That is why I think Belgium won't get past the Quarter-Finals at best in this tournament (probably Last 16 for me). They just lack any tournament experience because I don't think any of them players have played in a World Cup. They haven't been in a World Cup since 2002, 12 years ago and I doubt anyone would have played in that. They weren't in Euro 2012 either, so they lack a lot of tournament experience as a squad. This is why teams like Mexico, USA, Ghana etc seem to get out of their group and do well. They have a solid collective of tournament experience between all of their players, even if no at the best quality.

Algeria were unlucky there. They had their game plan and tactics correct for the game and they had the tournament experience over Belgium, just unfortunately, they lack a little bit of quality, but if they had that, then they would have got something out of that. Against tougher opposition (like Mexico, USA or Ghana), I think Belgium would have lost that game.

[skyeman]

But no where as bad as Fellaini and Torres. Come on.

Torres: 107 games, 38 goals
Shevchenko: 48 games, 9 goals

Blimey, is it that bad.

[CFCNick]

But no where as bad as Fellaini and Torres. Come on.

Torres: 107 games, 38 goals
Shevchenko: 48 games, 9 goals

Or

Torres: £1.3m per goal
Shevchenko: £3.3m per goal.

[Guest]

Kaka to Madrid, Denilson to Betis, Robinho at City, Juan Veron, Schevchenko at Chelsea, Andy Carroll....shall I continue?

Veron was under £20m. But Luiz wasn't!  

£28m to United was Veron. Ferguson labelled Veron a flop.

[CFCNick]

Kaka to Madrid, Denilson to Betis, Robinho at City, Juan Veron, Schevchenko at Chelsea, Andy Carroll....shall I continue?

Veron was under £20m. But Luiz wasn't!  

£28m to United was Veron. Ferguson labelled Veron a flop.

I mean Veron at Chelsea.

[sportform]

Brazil vs Mexico. Get ready for some dodgy decisions. Winners go through.

[GSC]

Brazil 4-0

This Mexican side is nothing special

[CFCNick]

Over 2.5 goals, 10-12 corners, over 6 cards. 28/1.

Cheeky fiver.

[Fernando]

Brazil: Julio Cesar, Dani Alves, Thiago Silva, David Luiz, Marcelo, Paulinho, Fred, Neymar, Oscar, Ramires, Luiz Gustavo

Mexico: Ochoa, Rodriguez, Marquez, Herrera, Layun, Dos Santos, Moreno, Guardado, Peralta, Aguilar, Vazquez

[The Special Juan]

Over 2.5 goals, 10-12 corners, over 6 cards. 28/1.

Cheeky fiver.

I can see the first 2 happening but 6 cards is a lot. If it was Honduras, maybe.

[Nachos Jones]

Come on Mexico, I really cant stand Brazil.

[Kurt N. Jurqa]

Who's overrated?

Belgium

Agreed.

Belgium are definitely overrated. Why do people think they are so good? Because they have got Hazard, presumably one of the Premier League's finest players? Yes, I would agree with him being one of the Premier League's best players but Portugal have got Ronaldo and got absolutely demolished by that Germany side yesterday, with/without 10 men. They also have a few other players that are playing for good/top clubs in the Premier League, but big deal. They have some good players but not as good as what people think, for sure.

I was a little bit disappointed by the Belgium scoreline because I put £5 on Algeria to win the game. I was close as well. It wasn't just a stab bet to see if they could win and I could win a little bit of money, no not at all. I out a fiver on because I thought Algeria had a chance of winning the game because they have much more tournament experience than what Belgium do and because Belgium are overrated and I didn't think they were as good as what people make them out to be.

That is why I think Belgium won't get past the Quarter-Finals at best in this tournament (probably Last 16 for me). They just lack any tournament experience because I don't think any of them players have played in a World Cup. They haven't been in a World Cup since 2002, 12 years ago and I doubt anyone would have played in that. They weren't in Euro 2012 either, so they lack a lot of tournament experience as a squad. This is why teams like Mexico, USA, Ghana etc seem to get out of their group and do well. They have a solid collective of tournament experience between all of their players, even if no at the best quality.

Algeria were unlucky there. They had their game plan and tactics correct for the game and they had the tournament experience over Belgium, just unfortunately, they lack a little bit of quality, but if they had that, then they would have got something out of that. Against tougher opposition (like Mexico, USA or Ghana), I think Belgium would have lost that game.

They've got three bordering World Class players in Hazard/Kompany/Courtois. Whilst they haven't got WC experience these players have played at the top level in their respective leagues and in Europe, against arguably harder opposition than you get in the WC. Chadli was a strange choice both to get a squad place and then to start, I'd have preferred Batshuayi to have got a call up as well as Eden's brother Thorgan. Are they in the bracket with Germany/Spain/Brazil etc? No, but on their day they could certainly upset the bigger teams like their neighbours Holland have already shown.

[compelling and rich]

luiz first goal 25/1 ive gone. he loves a free kick and mexico lack height at set pieces

[owen10ozzy]

I'm not sure Belgium are overrated as so much as just been spoken about too much.

Are they right to have been labelled dark horses....well yes..the tag is used to suggest a team which is strong enough outside of the usual big teams (Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Germany, Spain) who are capable of pulling out a surprise and going deep...I would suggest that is a fair assessment of Belgium.

People will/have now jumped on the overrated bandwagon because they struggled past Algeria; but lets not forget this is an Algeria that held England to a draw 4 years ago! Did the Belgiums look great...no....did they struggle to break down a team....yes....

But they found a way to win and that's what good teams do. I would also say that it's a huge diservice to say they only have Hazard (whoever said that) because they have a whole host of very good players...

Courtois ,Kompany ,Hazard would be put in the bracket of World Class in their respective positions..

You then have the likes of Lukaku, Fellaini, Vermaelen, Vertonghen, Mignolet who you would class as good/very good players in the Premiership (one bad season aside for Fellaini who proved what he is all about today...lest we forget Utd hardly used him in his best position or played to his strengths)..

They can play football on the floor but also have that great plan B as soon as Fellaini play's which is of huge benefit because your going to have to play different way's to go far in this tournament.

For me I would still say that they will come out on top in this group and I would fancy them to overcome Portugal and probably just fall short against Argentina though wouldn;t be shocked to see them win.

The likes of Switzerland, Argentina, Brazil, Belgium and Chile have all played poor or average and found a way to win and that's what it's about...they now enter the 2nd game with far less pressure on them to get a result than say....England...!

[FootballLight]

Who's overrated?

Belgium

Agreed.

Belgium are definitely overrated. Why do people think they are so good? Because they have got Hazard, presumably one of the Premier League's finest players? Yes, I would agree with him being one of the Premier League's best players but Portugal have got Ronaldo and got absolutely demolished by that Germany side yesterday, with/without 10 men. They also have a few other players that are playing for good/top clubs in the Premier League, but big deal. They have some good players but not as good as what people think, for sure.

I was a little bit disappointed by the Belgium scoreline because I put £5 on Algeria to win the game. I was close as well. It wasn't just a stab bet to see if they could win and I could win a little bit of money, no not at all. I out a fiver on because I thought Algeria had a chance of winning the game because they have much more tournament experience than what Belgium do and because Belgium are overrated and I didn't think they were as good as what people make them out to be.

That is why I think Belgium won't get past the Quarter-Finals at best in this tournament (probably Last 16 for me). They just lack any tournament experience because I don't think any of them players have played in a World Cup. They haven't been in a World Cup since 2002, 12 years ago and I doubt anyone would have played in that. They weren't in Euro 2012 either, so they lack a lot of tournament experience as a squad. This is why teams like Mexico, USA, Ghana etc seem to get out of their group and do well. They have a solid collective of tournament experience between all of their players, even if no at the best quality.

Algeria were unlucky there. They had their game plan and tactics correct for the game and they had the tournament experience over Belgium, just unfortunately, they lack a little bit of quality, but if they had that, then they would have got something out of that. Against tougher opposition (like Mexico, USA or Ghana), I think Belgium would have lost that game.

They've got three bordering World Class players in Hazard/Kompany/Courtois. Whilst they haven't got WC experience these players have played at the top level in their respective leagues and in Europe, against arguably harder opposition than you get in the WC. Chadli was a strange choice both to get a squad place and then to start, I'd have preferred Batshuayi to have got a call up as well as Eden's brother Thorgan. Are they in the bracket with Germany/Spain/Brazil etc? No, but on their day they could certainly upset the bigger teams like their neighbours Holland have already shown.

I'd only say that Kompany is World Class because it is much harder as a defender to be as good as what he is, he really makes a difference. As they say, it is much easier to score a goal than defend a goal. A couple more seasons for Hazard and he should be there, same with Courtois. It is very rare that I define a young player as World Class, unless they have been consistently performing for around 4/5 years. It doesn't matter if they have played at the top level, only Bentaleb and Feghouli have played at big clubs from that Algeria side, it is the experience of a tournament.

You could argue it is harder opposition, on paper, I'd agree with you. But there are so many other defining facts that make that statement untrue. Aclimatising to the conditions, the different styles teams play, the squad harmony, World Cup experience etc. What experience does to you is it gives you the opportunity as a player and coach to see the styles of teams. England and Belgium played very similar to each other when they faced Algeria in there group, because Algeria know what to expect and how to deal with it. A lot of teams in Europe and in their divisions aim to play the most successful formation or similar styles to the better sides in their division. That is totally different in the World Cup. That's what people fail to understand these days.

The problem as to why they are overrated is because people think they are in the bracket because they have 1 World Class player imo. That is Kompany. Just because they are the dark horses (which doesn't entirely mean causing an upset to a BIG NATION) doesn't mean they are as good as them. A lot of people have predicted them to be dark horses for this tournament, which is why people overrate them. I think Chile, Croatia and USA are the dark horses because they've got everything in their locker to be a solid World Cup side and both have the potential to get to the Quarter-Finals which would be brilliant for them in this World Cup. Dark horses doesn't always mean upsetting a big team because that could mean that one of England or Uruguay could be the dark horses because one of the teams will have to beat each other to stay in the group, defeat could see Uruguay out and an England loss would mean they are out.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It very much depends who is rating them! Some people see them as dark horses in a way that England are not, whereas England should always be considered dark horses. They are outside the upper echelons yet spoken about like they will upset one of the bigger boys, not could.

[kingraf]

What's the verdict on Thiago Silva? Don't watch enough Ligue 1 to form a rounded opinion of him, but he looks quite imperious whenever I watch him in Brazilian colours. But then again, as does Fred.

[FootballLight]

That is an extremely good point their Dolphin Ziggler. I agree with you completely there. I've always thought England have been dark horses since the new millennium really. I thought in the 20th century, after they won the World Cup, they could go on for a few more tournaments and do well by getting at least to the Semi's and potentially winning it again, it didn't happen, they didn't win it twice.

But because of England's slow decline from the year they won the World Cup to the new millennium, I have just seem them as dark horses. But 14 years ago to somewhat recently, I've never even dared to state my opinion on that because expectations are so high in England it is almost unspoken of to be "dark horses". But England perfectly describe a "dark horse" team.

For me, a dark horse team is a team that is capable of winning a competition depending on their quality but they have the capabilities to upset the odds by progressing further than the media's/their own expectations in a tournament. For me, it works both ways. England are this sort of side because they won it before (all be it 1966) which shows they can go further than expected, and could do this World Cup. Which is why some say they could get to Semi-Final (depending on their route) or not even get out of their group. It's a very split decision between them, but, I don't want to raise the bar too high/low and I don't want to speak too harsh/high about them. Which is why I'm comfortable just sitting on the bench by being happy if they get to the Last 16 but hoping they get to the Quarter-Finals, because they should do really.

[FootballLight]

I'd say he is World Class. Been on the scene for a number of years performing at the top of his game consistently and much like company, he can actually defend his goal in the right manner and deals with every problem going, maybe not all the time, but more than enough times. World Class.

[FootballLight]

Hopefully this will back-up my point (from the BBC Sport page, Brazil v Mexico):

"As for Mexico, perhaps they will score from a free-kick, or breaking down the left wing where they could draw Thiago Silva out of that central position, because he he has been totally dominant there so far."

Brad Friedel

[Guest]

Brazil 4-0

This Mexican side is nothing special

Hope you didn't bet on that.

Hugely unimpressive & slow this Brazil side. Agree, Mexico are not great but just simply being organised is enough at the minute.

[Guest]

As for Scolari`s continued trust in Fred   

[Kurt N. Jurqa]

Thiago Silva is probably the complete centre back in the world. For me only Kompany and possibly Hummels can be mentioned in the same breath.

[FootballLight]

Brazil 4-0

This Mexican side is nothing special

Hope you didn't bet on that.

Hugely unimpressive & slow this Brazil side. Agree, Mexico are not great but just simply being organised is enough at the minute.

This is also what World Cup experience can give a team. If they get their tactics, formation and players performing to a decent level correct, then they will know what sort of pressure is on the bigger teams and the host nations. Mexico aren't usually a bigger team, that's why they are a good tournament team. I do like Mexico. I think they are a good, solid tournament (especially World Cup) team.

Also, Rafael Marquez is controlling the game in the midfield, Thiago Silva has been a rock at the back and there has been no quality from either team up front so far.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Brazil desperately need to get Oscar involved more. He was peripheral for most of that half, stuck playing auxilliary left-back (speaking of which, for an attacking midfielder, the defensive shifts he puts in are simply superb), had a couple of nice touches that led to chances, but otherwise just couldn't get into the game.

Neymar continues to play like that reasonably gifted kid in primary school: it's my ball, and I'm not giving it to anyone, I'll take all the corners and free-kicks too

Brazil not impressive at all. As John says, Mexico simply being organised is enough to keep them out.

A better team will crucify Brazil on the break too, those central midfielders are just too slow to cover a defense who's not really interested in defending (other than Thiago Silva, who's been a rock).

[Fernando]

We have been screwed over in England we have big ears & Chiles yet mexico have this as host.

It's not fair   

[Mad for Chelsea]

and of course, as John reminds me, Fred

[Guest]

Oh how I miss the days of the 3 R's: Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldhino.

Cafu and Carlos weren't bad either!

[Fernando]

Bernard on for Ramires at HT

[Duty281]

Brazil toiling without success, and Mexico looking more confident by the minute.

[kingraf]

I'd put money on Oscar being a better left back than Marcelo. Kids got an engine on him.

[skyeman]

Holland, Germany would tear Brazils defence apart thus far.

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