Groves vs DeGale II

If this rematch was to happen now who do you think would win and why?

DeGale may be riding high on the crest of a wave now he has switched to Matchroom and been made mandatory.  He also seems to have won over more fans with his performance last weekend.  I still don't think he has faced anyone better than George Groves.  I haven't seen enough of Gonzales to know if that win was an excellent performance from James or if Gonzales was overhyped.

It will be interesting to see how Groves bounces back from 2 losses on the spin.  I wonder did the first one affect him deep down heading into the second fight as he couldn't finish off Froch despite inflicting one hell of a beating on him, and I think the KO in the second loss will have definitely affected his huge self-confidence. He has fought at a higher level than DeGale though.

Both can arguably take heart from their first fight, although George got the close decision DeGale was arguably unlucky to lose it.  Right now I'll have Groves starting as favourite since he has fought at a higher level recently and shown he can mix it with the best in the SMW division.

Degale seems to have stood still, whilst Groves has come on leaps and bounds.
In his mind (and many others) he's only lost once and was beating Froch in the first fight and running.

Can't see anything but a Groves win at this time but it would still be interesting to see

Derbymanc wrote:Degale seems to have stood still, whilst Groves has come on leaps and bounds.
In his mind (and many others) he's only lost once and was beating Froch in the first fight and running.

Can't see anything but a Groves win at this time but it would still be interesting to see

I see Degale winning.

Its a must win fight for him as he lost the first and will be eager to avenge the loss. Plus there is some bad blood. I thought that after the first fight that these 2 will meet again for an even bigger fight. Apart from Froch Degale has fought the better opposition.

Think you forgot to vote onetwo :-D

I can't see it myself, I think Degales okay but is nothing special at this time. I hope I'm wrong though. Think Froch is way above anything Degale has faced and Groves held his own in both of them fights. would like to see Degale step up a bit first. I also hope Groves doesn't take too much of a step back after the losses as one of the worst things about this sport is that as soon as someone loses people find ways to deconstruct them as a whole. I'd prefer to see every fighter with at least 1 loss on their record as it shows they're trying to step up.

DeGale for me. The last fight was a toss up and he has greater momentum.

Going back to their amateur days, there has never been much between these two. Anyone who regards this as an easy fight to forecast is doing one or other of the boxers a disservice - these fighters will always produce a tight contest. Providing that Groves doesn't have a reaction to being sparked, which is never easy to assess until he's got back on the bike, I doubt very much that either has the wherewithal to finish matters early.

Groves manged to get inside Froch's head, but Froch has always been well served by the armour-plated self-confidence that occasionally leads him to say some silly things outside the ring, but is one of his greatest allies once he gets between the ropes. Throughout both his fights with Groves, even when things looked their darkest, Froch gave the impression that he expected to be able to turn the tide at some stage. My sense is that DeGale is more vulnerable to uncertainty, less able to draw on a positive well of experience and the knowledge that he can always turn the fight around. Groves's psychological approach, which he will undoubtedly deploy again, is more likely to succeed against DeGale than Froch, in my opinion.

Essentially, I believe that while DeGale is the more skilled of the two, although not by much, he is mentally the weaker and less resourceful by quite some margin. Ultimately, I can see Groves almost conning his way to victory, much as he did in their first professional encounter three years ago. By that I don't mean that George didn't deserve his win, close though it clearly was. It's just that he fought in a way that DeGale didn't expect and to which DeGale was unable to respond until it was too late; although James has more experience now, nothing that I've seen of him leads me to believe that he has learned how to react to adversity or alter his game plan on the hoof.

I'll go with Groves by decision again, with DeGale closing the gap hand over fist in the later stages but once again falling short and once again damning the judges.

captain carrantuohil wrote:

I'll go with Groves by decision again, with DeGale closing the gap hand over fist in the later stages but once again falling short and once again damning the judges.

Judging by your absolutely hopeless prediction the last they fought, Captain, I think it's safe we all ignore your call on this one....

Have to agree with Derby. Groves improves every fight, and has been getting great experience while DeGale has been fighting in shopping centres. Hard to predict the impact of such a devastating loss in a fight he expected to win, but for my Groves is the better boxer. I also had it wider than most first time around. DeGale still has a lot of bad habits, can see him getting caught and I don't think he will be composed enough to withstand it.

Quite right too, Tino. I'm not sure that I've successfully predicted any fight in the three years since that solitary swallow made my summer.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Quite right too, Tino. I'm not sure that I've successfully predicted any fight in the three years since that solitary swallow made my summer.

What a prediction it was though. Groves, possibly by a point in a controversial decision.

Great shout.

Very difficult to call, as others have said hard to know what affect, if any the knockout will have on Groves. What one would like to think Groves had taken from his last two fights is he held his ground with a hugely experienced and battle hardened world class fighter over nigh on 18 rounds, and take heart from this.

I would agree Groves appears to have improved more of the two since their last fight, but personally I think something might finally have clicked with Degale. Genuinely think he was drifting and struggling for motivation, which for an Olympic champion reduced to fighting in shopping centres is easy to understand. Think he realises now he is on the cusp of big fights and so can ill afford dull performances, and you could see at Wembley he was really trying to set a pace and actually add concentration and excitement to his other gifts.

Would never be a fight I would call with any confidence but should it happen soon I think Degale just might nick it, just think psychologically he is in a good mindset at the minute.

Assuming that they each have another fight before they face again, I think the outcome depends largely on how De Gale gets on in his next fight. Even if he doesn't fight Froch, it's likely that his next fight is going to be a step-up in class and there's no guarantee that De Gale is able to take that step.

De Gale has the momentum at the moment and Groves is walking a bit of a career tightrope (can't really afford a 3rd loss on the trot - regardless of how unjust that first loss might have been), but that could all change if De Gale struggles (or is beaten in his next fight) and Groves impresses.

Funny thing momentum. This time last week, groves had it. As mentioned earlier, if they have another fight first it might let us know if groves is gunshy and whether degale was really good or Gonzales really bad.

Groves seemed to be the one who'd progressed since their last fight, but it's always hard to tell without common opponents... Was degale genuinely hampered by injuries? Whose to say, nothing to suggest its anything other than a close fight.

I don't understand the concept of Groves "improving in every fight"....

He fought Carl in the first and smashed his face in for 5 rounds before becoming tired and getting stopped.

The second fight many had Carl ahead as he boxed with more concentration and then he ended up splatting him a round earlier than the first fight.

Surely that's not an improvement is it?

In the first De Gale vs Groves I had Chunky winning by a couple of round having rallied late. I think we see a similar affair this time round which will set up a rubber match for Hearn and his pockets.

Groves is going to have to get back to winning ways in order for a fight with DeGale to sell as Chunky is going to want to "take a step back" fighting a guy coming off two losses. Trouble with that is that if Groves gets back to winning ways and looks good doing do, whatever confidence Degale had after watching George get knocked out, is likely to dissipate pretty quickly.

"Oh s**t, that loss to Froch hasn't really affected him!"

If Groves looks poor in his comebacks, a fight with Degale simply won't sell anyway

milkyboy wrote:Funny thing momentum. This time last week, groves had it. As mentioned earlier, if they have another fight first it might let us know if groves is gunshy and whether degale was really good or Gonzales really bad.

Groves seemed to be the one who'd progressed since their last fight, but it's always hard to tell without common opponents... Was degale genuinely hampered by injuries? Whose to say, nothing to suggest its anything other than a close fight.

Froch changed his gameplan to be more patient. Improving doesn't necessarily mean the result will improve.

For him going from a stage where he was against say Anderson or even the first DeGale fight to boxing at least even with Froch for so long I think is a big step.

Did you quote the wrong post Scott... Presume it was one of mm8's froch love letters you were meaning to reply to

I think Degale would win. He was outfoxed in their first fight to some extent and didnt perform at his best. Groves only barely nicked it producing a much more focused display and strategy that time. I got the impression Degale threw the first fight away a bit. I think Degale is underrated.

Another question I was pondering is who is likely to win a world title first out of the pair? The obvious answer is DeGale since he is mandatory however with Groves under Sauerland and being the bigger draw of the pair it is possible that Sauerland can land Groves a title shot later this year against Bika or Abraham knowing that it will sell well. Those are fights I'd favour Groves in provided he can get his confidence back after that KO. If Froch vacates the IBF and DeGale fights for it who would he likely be up against?

Degale was in all sorts of bother against Wilczeweski,caught time and time again against Khatchikian with he's poor defence,Degale ain't that hard to hit.
Despite beating the virtually unknown light hitting Gonzales, I'm yet to be convinced by Degale,one swallow doesn't make a summer.

Groves has come on leaps and bounds, demolished Paul Smith and has won all his fights( pre Froch)without breaking sweat since the Degale fight.  

Groves has proven in both Froch fights that he is a world class fighter and has the punch power at that level .The 2nd fight with Froch was close till the KO.
Groves sets the kind of pace he did against Froch in the 1st fight,Degale will go to the ropes for he's breather like he alway's does, just where Groves will want him.
Groves catches Degale with anything like the punches he caught Froch with, and at some stage he will, Chunky's snoring.
I aint just talking about the knockdown in the 1st round either.

milkyboy wrote:Did you quote the wrong post Scott... Presume it was one of mm8's froch love letters you were meaning to reply to

Yeah!! Meant to quote the one below it. Ah well.

I think also groves would get inside degales head too much

I wouldn't say Gonzales was virtually unknown, he was a decent and respected fighter who was expected to give Degale problems, would say it's the best win either has since they fought. The counter of that argument is that Groves more than lived with the divisions number two for 17 rounds so swings and roundabouts really.

Degale can be such a tricky awkward boxer I can't see him ever being outclassed, he'll have stages in a fight with Groves where he has the upper hand easily but that could take a few rounds to adapt or see him take his foot off the gas.

Gun to my head would say it's a fight that could go either way just like their first without a clear winner.

DeGale will outchunk Groves and get a late stoppage

Groves is 3 years younger than DeGale and appears to have developed a 'man strength' that he never had in the first fight. Compare the boy Groves of the DeGale fight to the man that stepped in twice against Froch and to me they are different animals - he's now physically stronger and hits harder. Groves also has infinitely more mental strength than DeGale which could make the difference in a close fight. DeGale talks a good game (when he's not getting tongue tied) but he's mentally weak.

The things Groves lacks now that he had back then is Adam Booth, who I think is a much better trainer than Fitzpatrick and would work meticulously with Groves in planning & implementing a game plan that would undo DeGale.

DeGale is a better 12 round fighter, but I don't think he hits hard enough to stop Groves. I watched their first fight the other day for the first time since seeing it live 3 years ago and despite a 3 year gap I had DeGale winning by a point on both occasions. GG got lucky that night for me, but if they fought now I'd have Groves to win by a mid round stoppage after totally out psyching DeGale in the build up. He's developed so much more since 2011 compared to DeGale who has been either injured or labouring against journey men in shopping centres.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I wouldn't say Gonzales was virtually unknown, he was a decent and respected fighter who was expected to give Degale problems, would say it's the best win either has since they fought. The counter of that argument is that Groves more than lived with the divisions number two for 17 rounds so swings and roundabouts really.

Degale can be such a tricky awkward boxer I can't see him ever being outclassed, he'll have stages in a fight with Groves where he has the upper hand easily but that could take a few rounds to adapt or see him take his foot off the gas.

Gun to my head would say it's a fight that could go either way just like their first without a clear winner.

Post of the day hammy... Gun to my head I'll sit on the fence.

HAHAHAHA!

milkyboy wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I wouldn't say Gonzales was virtually unknown, he was a decent and respected fighter who was expected to give Degale problems, would say it's the best win either has since they fought. The counter of that argument is that Groves more than lived with the divisions number two for 17 rounds so swings and roundabouts really.

Degale can be such a tricky awkward boxer I can't see him ever being outclassed, he'll have stages in a fight with Groves where he has the upper hand easily but that could take a few rounds to adapt or see him take his foot off the gas.

Gun to my head would say it's a fight that could go either way just like their first without a clear winner.

Post of the day hammy... Gun to my head I'll sit on the fence.

It would seem that way Milky but it's a genuine prediction that the fight will be so close it could go either way, there is so little to split them I can't see it going any other way.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Groves is 3 years younger than DeGale

2 years

Have I completely missed something with Degale other than a change of promoter? Whats he done recently to warrant getting touted as an opponent for Froch or rematching Groves? Just recently he was toiling against no marks in shopping centres. He may have beaten a couple of unbeaten fighters in his last couple of outings but by the looks of their records they were just stepping up to 12 rounders. Nowhere near the level of opponents that would justify degales current level of hype. I reckon Froch beats him and groves in the same night, and Groves beats him more convincingly than last time out.

While there last fight was quite close, I think Degale was pretty much a clear winner, with Groves IMO maybe having a shout for a Draw.

I think because Degale stirred up so many haters for that fight and as Groves (much like the Froch fight 1) was such an under dog due to his poor performance against Anderson, When he started to be give Degale problems the crowed really carried allot of the momentum and maybe also influenced the judges in some of the close rounds.. Degale won about 4 clear rounds, where Groves won about 2 clear rounds, and the rest where very close rounds..

Degale has struggled with injuries since although Haters would like to dismiss that.  I think this fight would be another close one, but Groves will no longer be the underdog, Degale will come into the fight less man sausage sure and I think he would take a decision.

tunes666 wrote:While there last fight was quite close, I think Degale was pretty much a clear winner, with Groves IMO maybe having a shout for a Draw.

I think because Degale stirred up so many haters for that fight and as Groves (much like the Froch fight 1) was such an under dog due to his poor performance against Anderson, When he started to be give Degale problems the crowed really carried allot of the momentum and maybe also influenced the judges in some of the close rounds..

Degale has struggled with injuries since although Haters would like to dismiss that.  I think this fight would be another close one, but Groves will no longer be the underdog, Degale will come into the fight less man sausage sure and I think he would take a decision.

What fight were you watching ? Close fight granted, but Groves was a worthy winner.

Cheers Rodders

Another point worth mentioning is that I think Booth had alot to do with the last fight and like him or not he is a very tactical trainer and I think in the long run Groves will miss out by not having him in his corner.. Booth saw some stuff Degale needed to work on and prepared Groves very well.

@ He is mandatory for Carl's IBF belt after a win on the undercard.

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:Have I completely missed something with Degale other than a change of promoter? Whats he done recently to warrant getting touted as an opponent for Froch or rematching Groves? Just recently he was toiling against no marks in shopping centres. He may have beaten a couple of unbeaten fighters in his last couple of outings but by the looks of their records they were just stepping up to 12 rounders. Nowhere near the level of opponents that would justify degales current level of hype. I reckon Froch beats him and groves in the same night, and Groves beats him more convincingly than last time out.

Gonzalez is a decent win and the manner of victory is impressive, a change of promoter can be everything as we all saw his last fight something that probably hadn't happened for a while being stuck on channel 5. He performed a million times better than he did against Davis and being Froch's mandatory might have something to do with it too, Groves certainly isn't above a rematch now.

Rodney wrote:

tunes666 wrote:While there last fight was quite close, I think Degale was pretty much a clear winner, with Groves IMO maybe having a shout for a Draw.

I think because Degale stirred up so many haters for that fight and as Groves (much like the Froch fight 1) was such an under dog due to his poor performance against Anderson, When he started to be give Degale problems the crowed really carried allot of the momentum and maybe also influenced the judges in some of the close rounds..

Degale has struggled with injuries since although Haters would like to dismiss that.  I think this fight would be another close one, but Groves will no longer be the underdog, Degale will come into the fight less man sausage sure and I think he would take a decision.

What fight were you watching ? Close fight granted, but Groves was a worthy winner.

Cheers Rodders

Degale two up for me, for Groves to have won then the really close rounds would have been given to him where they were so hard to call, for me this is where the crowd came in.

This is why a Rematch would be popular as it would be nice to fix it.  

But with that said, Degale is closer to a title shot now, so wont happen yet.

tunes666 wrote:

Rodney wrote:

tunes666 wrote:While there last fight was quite close, I think Degale was pretty much a clear winner, with Groves IMO maybe having a shout for a Draw.

I think because Degale stirred up so many haters for that fight and as Groves (much like the Froch fight 1) was such an under dog due to his poor performance against Anderson, When he started to be give Degale problems the crowed really carried allot of the momentum and maybe also influenced the judges in some of the close rounds..

Degale has struggled with injuries since although Haters would like to dismiss that.  I think this fight would be another close one, but Groves will no longer be the underdog, Degale will come into the fight less man sausage sure and I think he would take a decision.

What fight were you watching ? Close fight granted, but Groves was a worthy winner.

Cheers Rodders

Degale two up for me, for Groves to have won then the really close rounds would have been given to him where they were so hard to call, for me this is where the crowd came in.

This is why a Rematch would be popular as it would be nice to fix it.  

But with that said, Degale is closer to a title shot now, so wont happen yet.

That's why there was no clear winner because there were so many close rounds, a judge will tend to give all the close rounds to one guy depending on what he prefers, very rarely do you see them giving one to one boxer and another to the other. It's why we end up with such disparity in some cards when the fight is really close.

True, but for me the fact that Degale won more clear rounds, then in the closer rounds it was more to do with the crowd who were screaming with joy every time Groves had a little success because they were desperate to see Degale loose..... Groves was on the back foot for most of the fight while having about 2 rounds where he started to come at Degale had him flustered and took the rounds..

Or alternatively you're using the crowd as a convenient excuse for your man losing a close fight, no issue with you saying you think Degale won but constantly suggesting it was a clear win or a robbery is just nonsense.

Groves degale was just a very close fight. I thought groves nicked it, but kind of felt that degale blew it a bit and finished stronger. Had they fought again immediately I'd have leant to degale. Groves had a Backfoot strategy for that fight, but looks a better fighter when he holds the centre of the ring to me, so it would be interesting to see how they matched up now,

Re the first fight, the one thing it didn't have was a 'clear ' winner.

Where do you think Groves goes from here though? A rebuildin fight? Then possibly Abraham?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Or alternatively you're using the crowd as a convenient excuse for your man losing a close fight, no issue with you saying you think Degale won but constantly suggesting it was a clear win or a robbery is just nonsense.

Who was the crowed roaring for?, are you saying the crowed has never influenced the outcome of a fight?

A guy can box on the back foot for most of the fight while only really clearly winning 2 of them and win all the 50/50 rounds?...

The Crowed were %80 behind Groves. this counts, and why boxers would rather fight in their home town.

I think Groves would beat DeGale again but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

Anyone else think Groves might face Kessler next?

I think kessler ko's groves. Just as hard a puncher as froch but faster more accurate, infact an over all more rounded fighter. Not much in the way of weakness for groves to exploit.

According to everybody who backed him to smash Froch in the rematch Kessler's totally shot and can barely tie his own shoe laces. I mean, he was wobbled in the final round of a brutal, attritional fight so he must be shot.