Doom of 13 and Djokovic to stand tall among ruins

First topic message reminder :

I saw a strange coincidence, 2 people have crossed 13 in slams counts and both those members lost in USO and Australian open finals respectfully  regretfully in different ways before making the record number 14.

Pete Sampras was humiliated by Hewitt in USO finals and Roger Federer was made to cry publicly for the first time in AO  

Joining the ranks Rafael Nadal at 13 playing AO finals as a big favorite against a GS final debut by Stan the man, was handed a shocking defeat raising questions of Nadal's march towards 17.

So here some good news and bad news for Rafa fans, after a struggle at 13, Pete went on to win 1 more elusive slam and called it quits, and that slam came on his home land  before his fans at USO giving a fairy tale finish, in the similar manner Fed got his 14th at much daunted place of French which completed his cv and more or less sealed the GOAT debate in his favor at that time.

Now the question is what is the slam Rafa wants it so bad among the 4?   , I am pretty sure Rafa gonna cross the 13 but will he do it on the place similar to other 2 legends? My answer is yes he will carve another great episode on 14 and that will last in the memories of all Tennis fans. 9th FO undoubtedly will give him the biggest prestige than winning any other slam, and given the sudden resurgence he is well and truly likely to get it to make a history of his own in 14.

Standing on the other side is a guy who wants to add himself into the GOAT debate, and before we all could realize he has already won 6 slams and 1 win away from making a career slam, there is a saying 3rd time lucky, it took Rafa 3 consecutive finals appearance to win the Wimbledon trophy, 2012 and 2013 were so close for Nole will be be 3rd time lucky in 2014?   

Both men fighting for honors, and for the first time in long run I enjoyed a French Open thoroughly and who ever wins is the deserving champion and history in the making, is it 7 or 2x 7 = 14?. I never lived in the center and have been bold enough to cast my views and I am sticking to my earlier stances this FO is for Novak Djokovic , even though I had some heated arguments with Nole fans in the past, if he wins it I will be very happy for him and his fans. Who ever bet on Rafa 100 pounds, I am sorry for your money. 

invisiblecoolers wrote:Last not least Congrats Rafa on joining the 14 club, now in my view he is the No.2 in GOAT status ahead of Pete Sampras, may be I will re-open that topic again later when things die down a bit.

Agree completely about him being ahead of Sampras...and hey I'm a huge Pete fan but he never had to beat the type of opposition Nadal has had to for his 14 slams:

- Federer & Djokovic beaten in 10 finals.
- Federer, Djokovic and Murray beaten in 3 semifinals.

So that's the 3 of the other "Big 4" beaten in 13 out of his 14 slam wins.

That's truly staggering and Pete himself would hold his hand up at that. Plus Nadal has won all 4 slams of course. So it's 14-14 all but Nadal is quite some distance ahead in my opinion.

It is an interesting argument.

I would put Nadal ahead of Sampras. You can bring the number 1 argument and the absence of the WTF title, but for me Nadal owns records and titles that Pete doesn't. That tips the scales in favour of Nadal.

lydian wrote:Agree completely about him being ahead of Sampras...and hey I'm a huge Pete fan but he never had to beat the type of opposition Nadal has had to for his 14 slams:

- Federer & Djokovic beaten in 10 finals.
- Federer, Djokovic and Murray beaten in 3 semifinals.

So that's the 3 of the other "Big 4" beaten in 13 out of his 14 slam wins.

That's truly staggering and Pete himself would hold his hand up at that. Plus Nadal has won all 4 slams of course. So it's 14-14 all but Nadal is quite some distance ahead in my opinion.

I think the main thing going for Rafa is that he is most likely not done yet.  But if he were to stop here, as I said, it is Pete for me still.  At the end of the day, I tend to prefer raw numbers and Pete still has more of the more important ones with him.

The argument about the opposition is fine but it does get to the point where it becomes more subjective and it is only natural to try to see if from the angles we like to see it.  What if today's conditions are such that it is in general easier for top players to consistently make later stages of the slams?  And what if - as a result - it was not harder but easier for Rafa (but also for Roger) to amass as many slams as they did?

While I recognize that raw numbers cannot do these arguments justice, I think that on balance they are still preferable to alternatives - as otherwise we are too prone to inserting our biases in.

So, for me it is still Sampras, but I expect that it will be Rafa once his career is done.  Rafa may yet overtake Roger too.

#1 ranking is Nadal's "weakness"......But if Nadal finishes 2014 with the #1 ranking, that will make it FOUR year-end #1s. That's only one behind Federer and 2 behind Sampras. And Nadal's weeks at #1 keep piling up.