Tonights Action *Spoilers*

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Boxnations coverage is just about to start in Newcastle, David Price fought earlier and went ten rounds winning a unanimous decision, hopefully that'll give him some confidence regarding his stamina.

I dont blame roach or cotto they would be daft not to take the opportunity the problem i have is with people like dan rafeal who i think are overplaying cotto's acheivment

Catchweight, you think Martinez should have backed out just before a multi million dollar fight on the grounds that his knee might or might not hold up? Would you? Seems like we do have at least one saint on the board if so.

If your argument is that it shouldnt have been PPV in the first place then I agree completely. But it was because there was a market for it. From what I have read, the majority of them were Cotto (armchair) fans who probably loved every minute of it.

I think he ripped off the fans by turning up to a fight he was in no condition to box for. A fight that was a cynical match up to begin with. If that was the best Martinez could come up with - battered from pillar to post at middleweight by a shot Cotto then the fight should not have happened. Would I have expected Martinez to turn the pay day? Nah probably not although he was clearly so crocked that if it hadnt been a pension fight for him he would surely have withdrawn. It doesnt mean I have to accept it though and Martinez deserves the criticism he gets for the fight.

When Chavez was knocking around middleweight getting everything handed to him on a plate, Martinez became the white knight of boxing against Chavez villain. He does no wrong in many peoples eyes. But as far as I am concerned he doesnt live up to his "sh1t dont stink" reputation. He got his Chavez fight and since then had a division with no stand out challenegrs. One emerged in Golovkin and in my view Martinez headed for the hills. This last Cotto fight was a farce played out on ppv. Terrible for the fans. Total rip off.

the fault lies purely at Martinez's door and Cotto for me is nothing more than a gimick at middleweight. Manny was a gimick when he beat Margarito for the LMW WBC at 151. This fight was a catchweight too and he deserves the same treatment

I think people are getting way to carried away with Cotto's performance last night. I'm a huge Cotto fan and he looked excellent last night, but Martinez just didn't have it anymore after the surgeries, JCC Jr ruined him in that 12th round and he has never been able to properly come back from it.

I think Cotto would make a huge mistake fighting GGG, I'm just glad Martinez wasn't in there with GGG last night.

Andy Lee....wow what a shot!!!

catchweight wrote: One emerged in Golovkin and in my view Martinez headed for the hills.

Must have been a torturous journey on those knees

Havin a ball here on Facebook wumming the Cotto fanatics. Haha. They are trying to say there was nothing wrong with Martinez's knees as he got surgery which fixes injuries. They are saying Cotto is just a better fighter and Martinez was looking for a way out and had been avoiding Cotto but forced to fight him. Hahahaha

This is well good craic. They are so passionate and to be honest I stopped caring after the fight ended. So they are getting all upset while I sit, eat ice cream and think about days gone by.

We all know Martinez's knees are shot to pieces and we also know this for a fight for money something every other boxer in history has done. However Martinez toughed it out as long as possible and nobody is going to feel shortchanged because they saw their man win.

Somebody gettin personal because I suggested Cotto should step up and face Stephen Hawking next

I wasn't talking nonsense Dee. I knew Martinez had injury issues going in and still wrote off Cotto in disrespectful style. Then he turned up and walked it and is the man who beat the man. I'm taking my rubbish prediction on the chin is all.

GGG was more deserving of a shot, but it's not Cotto's fault Sergio ducked him. Given Cotto's name value Gennady will no doubt be frozen out in favour of big money fights with Mayweather/Alvarez, which totally illegitimises the middleweight title.

Cotto has never shown real power above 147 and martinez has shown a great chin against legit middleweights, and every time cotto landed, even if it was a grazing shot martinez wobbled.

Not sure it was the chin that gave way but the knee couldn't take the impact of the shots. No tempo, flatfooted and off balance, this is nothing like the martinez of old

GGG stops cotto inside 6 rounds if they meet

It was a sad fight to watch, Cotto being able to call himself the middleweight champion doesn't sit right with me, fully expect him to lose it in first defence against either Alvarez or Mayweather.

Not sure Floyd would risk Cotto. He just wants gimme fights at this stage.

Cotto has suddenly become such a high risk option hasn't he Strongy, not sure anybody between 154-160lbs sees him as a legitimate threat, he gets trashed by any of the top men.

Not so sure Hammer. Maybe 160lbs is his best weight after all. He seemed to carry some serious power and looked very smart defensively. Maybe the step up in weight coupled with a new trainer and fresh start has done something for his career.

Last night was a great performance whether Martinez is shot or not.

But look at his resume over the past few years....

Macklin, Barker, Murray, Zbik, Chavez Jr.

Not exactly world beater or top quality fighters.

He fought Cotto who is probably the first real top ranked fighter since he demolished Paul Williams or Pavlik back in 2011 or whenever it was.

Bad knees or not, this may have just been a matter of time.

Pacquiao has looked brilliant in smashing Hoya, Hatton, Margarito, Rios, Clottey....

Matchmaking at its finest, which does happen out there. It's happened with a lot of great fighters.

End of the day Cotto won fair and square, if Sergio was indeed that badly injured then he would have pulled out.

I think Martinez will retire - it's very clear he's got next to nothing left. Cotto himself may only have a couple of fights left at the top. Can't blame Cotto for wanting to bag a few quid by fighting Alvarez. That said, it's very unfair on GGG...

mobilemaster8 wrote:Not so sure Hammer. Maybe 160lbs is his best weight after all. He seemed to carry some serious power and looked very smart defensively. Maybe the step up in weight coupled with a new trainer and fresh start has done something for his career.

Last night was a great performance whether Martinez is shot or not.

But look at his resume over the past few years....

Macklin, Barker, Murray, Zbik, Chavez Jr.

Not exactly world beater or top quality fighters.

He fought Cotto who is probably the first real top ranked fighter since he demolished Paul Williams or Pavlik back in 2011 or whenever it was.

Bad knees or not, this may have just been a matter of time.

Pacquiao has looked brilliant in smashing Hoya, Hatton, Margarito, Rios, Clottey....

Matchmaking at its finest, which does happen out there. It's happened with a lot of great fighters.

End of the day Cotto won fair and square, if Sergio was indeed that badly injured then he would have pulled out.

I sincerely hope you don't believe a word of that because if you do you're one seriously deluded fellow, everybody knows and can see how shot and injured Martinez was. You don't from being dominated by Trout to beating Martinez unless something is wrong, all his recent opposition would dispatch of Cotto without much fuss, don't try making out this win to be something it's not.

Not making out anything Hammer mate. I just think it looked like a good win to me. He jumped all over him from the word go, which nobody had done since Williams 1.

The past few fighters have tried to box him being scared of his movement and power. Cotton just pressured him and caught him with a monster shot in the first few exchanges.

That could have had an adverse effect on Sergio.

Never the less, I'll reserve my full judgement until cotto fights GGG or Quillin or some other top ranked MW.

And if he despatches of one of those then I'll believe in him a bit more.

Who knows.

In fairness, I did mention on the podcast last week that Roach, as he did with Manny against Oscar, may just have got the timing for this spot on and that Martinez may have crumbled to a much worse degree than any of us realised.....Before immediately saying that this was a fanciful view at best though, and that Martinez would safely navigate Cotto before stopping him late on!

Just got the last bit of egg off my face.

Hard to evaluate Cotto's performance last night properly, in some ways. It was certainly very, very good and worthy of plenty of applause, don't think that's up for debate. But back to his best? A sign that he's possibly a proper force as a Middleweight (albeit a very small one)? Something he could conceivable have replicated against the version of Martinez we saw three or four years back? All three of those suggestions are long shots, I think, some more so than others.

Martinez certainly looked like a shot fighter last night, but to be fair to him Cotto did so much damage so early on that maybe, just maybe, he was made to look even more worn out and aged than he really is. Also in the interests of fairness have to point out that Cotto looked quicker, lighter on his feet and more fluid in his punching than he has done in a long time, which you can't just automatically attribute to Sergio being decrepit in there. Punching power seems to have had a revival as well, although after the first round onslaught Martinez might not have had his legs under him at any point, maybe making Cotto's shots look a bit more earth-shattering than they were.

I can see people's frustrations but I'd be inclined to give Cotto a wee bit more credit. Easy to be wise after the event, but while I'm not going to dress this up as an awesome win or pretend that it doesn't come with a slight asterisk, I can't ignore that Cotto was taking a chance here too. Moving up in weight and no spring chicken himself, be it in terms of age or the amount of wear and tear he's taken in his career. Martinez was a long way off his old self but at the same time Cotto clearly raised his game to a higher level than it's been in a long time to take full advantage of it.

Well said Chris, couldn't agree more mate.

Can't say Chris that i'll be giving Cotto a shred of praise for that performance, all the pluses are counteracted by the sheer fact Martinez could barely move around the ring and made him look far better than he is.

One thing we have to say is Martinez interview was first class, no excuses, even though he clearly was injured.

Feel gutted for him, he fought the best available to him at the time and was the true middleweight champion. Hope he made enough money so he never has to worry again.

Really hope Sergio retires now, he has given us some great nights and was always entertaining.

Thanks for the memories

What we do need to remember when trying to berate a great champion like Martinez and he was a great middleweight champion is that boxing is/was his job. You're fighting for peanuts for most of your career, earning good money for the minority then a long time retired so holier than thou attitudes are plain wrong, like you and I he has a living to earn.

Echo much of that, BF88. Always seemed like a good bloke, Martinez. Annoyed me a little bit that towards the end of his reign he kept using the same excuses for not fighting Golovkin that he'd (rightly) slated Chavez Jr for using when it came to his avoidance of him, but that's the only quibble I can have with him. Excellent fighter, good champion of the Middleweight division.

With regards to his money situation, I remember in Sky's coverage of his defence against Macklin it was mentioned a couple of times that apparently Martinez has made some decent investments back in Argentina which had, up until then, actually made him more money than boxing had. Throw in a couple of $1m-plus pay days against Chavez Jr and Cotto since then, and hopefully he'll be able to enjoy life after boxing without a care in the world.

Shame that he's had to go out on such a rout if that is his last fight, but he's not the first and won't be the last.

We must remember boxing is Martinez job. Wow, so insightful.

Boxing is also Golovkins job and hes been denied fights and opportunities because Martinez would would rather avoid him and show up unfit to fight Cotto.

The fans are ultimately who pay the boxers wages. They are entitled to call for the best fights and for supposed champions to face their biggest rivals.

Sad night for Martinez. Congrats to Cotto who rightfully will feel on top of the world but the Martinez of 2-3 years ago would not of gone out like that and all class from him and his team post fight.

I watched the fight with a mate who had never seen Martinez and had to explain that this was a very old and can I say 'shot' version of him.

For Cotto it could be a bit misleading for him as he may think he can take on all-comers in the MW division however I think will come up short against them. He looked better but I'll pass judgement until after his next fight.

As a fan I hate being critical of cotto, but the lineal middleweight championship of the world should not be fought at a catchweight. I know this ultimately had little bearing on the fight, but when the winner cotto weighs in at 155lbs, the chances are are all his defences* will also be at a catchweight.

*he probably loses the belt on his next defence to Canelo/mayweather/GGG.

Ignoring the state of what was in front of him (which obviously flattered him) I thought cotto looked as sharp and fast as I've ever seen him. Martinez is used to being faster than his opponents, so I suspect that contributed to how sudden his demise looked. Ie against a plodder he might not have looked AS shot.

Can't agree with hammy that jcc, Murray, barker and macklin would all have beaten cotto easily. I think the fact that martinez was fighting guys of their level, masked (to a lot of people) how far he was falling.

Will echo Milky, Cotto looked sharp regardless of what Martinez condition (lack of ) I was impressed with his dynamic bursts and closing the distance rapidly (although Martinez knee might have played a part in that)

Cant agree with the Macklin, Murray beating Cotto they had their chance, Murray possibly faced a worse version than Saturdays night Martinez and couldnt get the win (although I thought he won by a point) and Macklin isnt in Cotto's league. Do feel the British lads at Middleweight are way overrated.

Cheers Rodders

Lets see how Cotto does in his next fight. It's hard to gauge Cotto's performance when his opponent was so poor. Cotto is a tough guy and will always put up a fight but he has psychological scars. When push comes to shove I think Cotto can be made to wilt. Still he has top notch talent and has been an underachiever down the years in my view.

First time I've heard a four weight world champion being labeled an under-acheiver

Would anyone be interested in Mayweather vs Cotto 2 ?

Cheers Rodders

Rodney wrote:Would anyone be interested in Mayweather vs Cotto 2 ?

Cheers Rodders

Cotto would

Rodney wrote:Would anyone be interested in Mayweather vs Cotto 2 ?

Cheers Rodders

No.

catchweight wrote:We must remember boxing is Martinez job. Wow, so insightful.

Boxing is also Golovkins job and hes been denied fights and opportunities because Martinez would would rather avoid him and show up unfit to fight Cotto.

The fans are ultimately who pay the boxers wages. They are entitled to call for the best fights and for supposed champions to face their biggest rivals.

Utter unadulterated garbage as I've come to expect from you. Ok, fight clean this time - no jibes about Kell Brook. The first time you reference that shall be the loss of your little remaining dignity.

You are talking bullocks out of your backside my friend.

catchweight wrote:Even if Martinez had been half fit this fight was always no more than a pension affair between fighters trying to squeeze the last life out of their careers. Martinez thought Cotto was small and past it enough that he could show up half crocked and still win and get a juicy pay day.

You are clearly new to boxing if you haven't seen Martinez or listened to his interviews. The notion this was a payday is absolutely laughable. He filled a stadium in Buenos Aires. He didn't need Cotto to make money. He has already made a considerable amount from investments in Argentina. You're clutching at straws that don't exist with that one my friend.

Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy and even Sergio at 50% would have taken the Cotto that faced Pacquiao. Cotto is small, but past it? Once again your tiny brain is throwing around hyperboles that it doesn't understand. Cotto is better now than he was 6 years ago. We saw that on Saturday night.

catchweight wrote:Martinez knew well that he was in bad shape. He wanted a knee brace. He thought he could get away with it because Cotto was shot and much smaller and brought a nice pay day with him. There was no integrity about this fight. Hes been using the bad knees excuse to explain away average performances for ages now but with this fight it was so obvious he wasnt fit that hes had to say soemthing else in order to save face in front of ripped off fans.

Ripped off fans? Wow. The fight got to the 9th round, Froch vs Groves got to the 8th before the knockout. Exactly why was anyone ripped off? Do you even understand what boxing is? So you're telling me that when people bought a ticket they were entitled somehow to 12 rounds of rock-em-sock-em? Do your research mate, do you think that fans felt ripped off when Martinez blew Williams away? That fight only lasted for 2 rounds! Was it a rip off when Clottey went into his shell for 12 rounds against Pacquiao? What about Mayweather vs Ortiz, that was stopped short? We could go on and on, and once again you're clutching at straws like an arrogant child hanging onto a toy that he's outgrown.

catchweight wrote:He can give whatever excuse he likes, thats up to him. The truth of the affair is pretty obvious. Im not going to pretend that his reasons were down to trying to show integrity. He was trying to save his own a$$ for a cynical move that totally backfired. A lot of fans might forgive Sergio the Poster Boy for turning up half crocked in a rip off fight but I think he deserves the criticism he gets for the whole fight. Im glad it backfired on him. Even if leads to the preposterous situation where a shot Miguel Cotto is THE middleweight champion of the world.

I'm going to now assume you didn't even watch the fight and you're having a lady accident in your trousers with mucho sand inside the extremity because you don't like Martinez. Ok - well anyway, Cotto is not shot. The Cotto who showed up last night is a stronger, fitter and more mobile Cotto than I've seen for a long time. This Cotto would have done well against Trout. I'm not saying Martinez performed. Not even slightly, but you can look objectively enough to see how fast Cotto was hitting against how he's previously performed whether its Martinez or SRR in there and see that he's not "shot"

It is entirely plausible to give Cotto credit for a performance like this, just because he faced a shell of Martinez it doesn't stop the fact that he was in great shape, showed good speed and timing and above all, patience. Martinez didn't have his knees - that much was clear, but I defy anyone who says that one of his straight lefts on the button wouldn't have buzzed Cotto, he was never given the chance.

catchweight wrote:He knew his knees were screwed. He hand picked a Cotto he thought was on the scrap heap and he might just get away with dodgy knees against. Closer to the fight when he was requesting a knee brace he must have known his knees were totally gone and possibly didnt even think he could win but just didnt want to let a big pay day slip past. Whether he backed himself to win or not doesnt say much when his opponent was picked because he would be way out of his weight class and was shot himself. Awful cynical fight to flog on ppv. But Martinez can do wrong with some people. People are even blaming Roach and Cotto now for Martinez pension fight backfiring.

Possibly. Hand picked Cotto? Bloody hell, you're relentless aren't you? We saw Cotto give Mayweather a tough fight and on a loss to Trout you're calling him shot? Cotto was a big fight, a challenge any way you look at it.

I get you don't like Martinez, and perhaps you're too poor to purchase fights that are on PPV and thats twisted your panties, but overall a good Cotto beat a past it Martinez. Sergio will have thought he'd have enough, even with dodgy knees, as he's done so before, perhaps last night was too much to ask of them.

To answer the question about his punch resistance in his knees, essentially your chin comes in part from your legs, if you can set your feet properly when taking a punch then the impact is taken through a more solid foundation. If you're off balance or coming into the punch without set legs you're going to feel the punch more and have less opportunity to react with any head movement. Sergio with weak knees couldn't set his legs to take any punches so they were knocking him all about the place.

Rodney wrote:Would anyone be interested in Mayweather vs Cotto 2 ?

Cheers Rodders

Mayweather would, at a catchweight. It'll be spun that Cotto is the most dangerous opponent that Floyd can facZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

jabby wrote:Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy

Sorry fella but if you look at the fight with Margarito, Cotto's movement in the early rounds was excellent...Tony couldn't get near him and only slowed him down when he caught Cotto on the nose and his breathing was hampered from that point on.

Consistently mate, you watch the Cotto that faced Mayweather/Pacquiao/Trout and you see a different one to the Cotto we saw vs Marg. Not saying Cotto hasn't shown elements of what we saw, but his patience was the big thing for me, I've seen him open up too much and lose based on that.

Wouldn't be top of my Christmas wish list personally, Rodders, but can see the appeal that it would have for some (particularly Floyd and Cotto themselves!) and I suspect there's a good chance we end up seeing it.

Cotto gave Mayweather one of the half-dozen closest and most competitive fights of his career so far a couple of years back. Miguel's coming in off the back of one of his better career showings, Floyd on the back of one of his less inspiring ones - on that form line, Cotto's probably a live enough underdog for the fight to sell and present itself as a legitimate move for both.

Depends on how much Cotto wants to milk his new status as a divisional king pin / man who beat the man, something he's never had until now. Mayweather could never hope for an easier and more opportune route to becoming a Middleweight champion so I'm sure he'll want it - a guy who ain't really a Middleweight at all who he's already beaten at 154.

If it was down to me, Cotto would give Golovkin the shot at the proper Middleweight title he deserves and Mayweather would be mixing it with Pacquiao, Lara and Thurman over the next eighteen months, though.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Consistently mate, you watch the Cotto that faced Mayweather/Pacquiao/Trout and you see a different one to the Cotto we saw vs Marg. Not saying Cotto hasn't shown elements of what we saw, but his patience was the big thing for me, I've seen him open up too much and lose based on that.

Probably a good idea not to put the words ALWAYS in a post then if that claim can be countered.

88Chris05 wrote:Wouldn't be top of my Christmas wish list personally, Rodders, but can see the appeal that it would have for some (particularly Floyd and Cotto themselves!) and I suspect there's a good chance we end up seeing it.

Cotto gave Mayweather one of the half-dozen closest and most competitive fights of his career so far a couple of years back. Miguel's coming in off the back of one of his better career showings, Floyd on the back of one of his less inspiring ones - on that form line, Cotto's probably a live enough underdog for the fight to sell and present itself as a legitimate move for both.

Depends on how much Cotto wants to milk his new status as a divisional king pin / man who beat the man, something he's never had until now. Mayweather could never hope for an easier and more opportune route to becoming a Middleweight champion so I'm sure he'll want it - a guy who ain't really a Middleweight at all who he's already beaten at 154.

If it was down to me, Cotto would give Golovkin the shot at the proper Middleweight title he deserves and Mayweather would be mixing it with Pacquiao, Lara and Thurman over the next eighteen months, though.

Now thats just being plain silly Chris

DAVE667 wrote:

jabby wrote:Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy

Sorry fella but if you look at the fight with Margarito, Cotto's movement in the early rounds was excellent...Tony couldn't get near him and only slowed him down when he caught Cotto on the nose and his breathing was hampered from that point on.

Tijuana Tornado Tony wouldn't get near a 70-year old Ali. The guy has many strengths, among them choice gloves, tough chin, but controlling the space in the ring isn't one of them.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

catchweight wrote:We must remember boxing is Martinez job. Wow, so insightful.

Boxing is also Golovkins job and hes been denied fights and opportunities because Martinez would would rather avoid him and show up unfit to fight Cotto.

The fans are ultimately who pay the boxers wages. They are entitled to call for the best fights and for supposed champions to face their biggest rivals.

Utter unadulterated garbage as I've come to expect from you. Ok, fight clean this time - no jibes about Kell Brook. The first time you reference that shall be the loss of your little remaining dignity.

You are talking bullocks out of your backside my friend.

catchweight wrote:Even if Martinez had been half fit this fight was always no more than a pension affair between fighters trying to squeeze the last life out of their careers. Martinez thought Cotto was small and past it enough that he could show up half crocked and still win and get a juicy pay day.

You are clearly new to boxing if you haven't seen Martinez or listened to his interviews. The notion this was a payday is absolutely laughable. He filled a stadium in Buenos Aires. He didn't need Cotto to make money. He has already made a considerable amount from investments in Argentina. You're clutching at straws that don't exist with that one my friend.

Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy and even Sergio at 50% would have taken the Cotto that faced Pacquiao. Cotto is small, but past it? Once again your tiny brain is throwing around hyperboles that it doesn't understand. Cotto is better now than he was 6 years ago. We saw that on Saturday night.

catchweight wrote:Martinez knew well that he was in bad shape. He wanted a knee brace. He thought he could get away with it because Cotto was shot and much smaller and brought a nice pay day with him. There was no integrity about this fight. Hes been using the bad knees excuse to explain away average performances for ages now but with this fight it was so obvious he wasnt fit that hes had to say soemthing else in order to save face in front of ripped off fans.

Ripped off fans? Wow. The fight got to the 9th round, Froch vs Groves got to the 8th before the knockout. Exactly why was anyone ripped off? Do you even understand what boxing is? So you're telling me that when people bought a ticket they were entitled somehow to 12 rounds of rock-em-sock-em? Do your research mate, do you think that fans felt ripped off when Martinez blew Williams away? That fight only lasted for 2 rounds! Was it a rip off when Clottey went into his shell for 12 rounds against Pacquiao? What about Mayweather vs Ortiz, that was stopped short? We could go on and on, and once again you're clutching at straws like an arrogant child hanging onto a toy that he's outgrown.

catchweight wrote:He can give whatever excuse he likes, thats up to him. The truth of the affair is pretty obvious. Im not going to pretend that his reasons were down to trying to show integrity. He was trying to save his own a$$ for a cynical move that totally backfired. A lot of fans might forgive Sergio the Poster Boy for turning up half crocked in a rip off fight but I think he deserves the criticism he gets for the whole fight. Im glad it backfired on him. Even if leads to the preposterous situation where a shot Miguel Cotto is THE middleweight champion of the world.

I'm going to now assume you didn't even watch the fight and you're having a lady accident in your trousers with mucho sand inside the extremity because you don't like Martinez. Ok - well anyway, Cotto is not shot. The Cotto who showed up last night is a stronger, fitter and more mobile Cotto than I've seen for a long time. This Cotto would have done well against Trout. I'm not saying Martinez performed. Not even slightly, but you can look objectively enough to see how fast Cotto was hitting against how he's previously performed whether its Martinez or SRR in there and see that he's not "shot"

It is entirely plausible to give Cotto credit for a performance like this, just because he faced a shell of Martinez it doesn't stop the fact that he was in great shape, showed good speed and timing and above all, patience. Martinez didn't have his knees - that much was clear, but I defy anyone who says that one of his straight lefts on the button wouldn't have buzzed Cotto, he was never given the chance.

catchweight wrote:He knew his knees were screwed. He hand picked a Cotto he thought was on the scrap heap and he might just get away with dodgy knees against. Closer to the fight when he was requesting a knee brace he must have known his knees were totally gone and possibly didnt even think he could win but just didnt want to let a big pay day slip past. Whether he backed himself to win or not doesnt say much when his opponent was picked because he would be way out of his weight class and was shot himself. Awful cynical fight to flog on ppv. But Martinez can do wrong with some people. People are even blaming Roach and Cotto now for Martinez pension fight backfiring.

Possibly. Hand picked Cotto? Bloody hell, you're relentless aren't you? We saw Cotto give Mayweather a tough fight and on a loss to Trout you're calling him shot? Cotto was a big fight, a challenge any way you look at it.

I get you don't like Martinez, and perhaps you're too poor to purchase fights that are on PPV and thats twisted your panties, but overall a good Cotto beat a past it Martinez. Sergio will have thought he'd have enough, even with dodgy knees, as he's done so before, perhaps last night was too much to ask of them.

To answer the question about his punch resistance in his knees, essentially your chin comes in part from your legs, if you can set your feet properly when taking a punch then the impact is taken through a more solid foundation. If you're off balance or coming into the punch without set legs you're going to feel the punch more and have less opportunity to react with any head movement. Sergio with weak knees couldn't set his legs to take any punches so they were knocking him all about the place.

You should really drop the whole patronising act if you are going to preach fair play or whinge like b1tch when you get slagged off for making up sparring stories. Its an annoying habit even with those who have the intellegince. But coming from a pathetic moron like yourself is clownish. I know you think it makes you sound important and intelligent but the content of your posts makes it self defeating and embarrassing.
In short, I stand by everything said. I think your counter points are either utter sh1te or completely missing the point. Im confident I have better grasp of boxing than someone who comes out with ignoramus statements like only 2/3 welterweights in history could give Mayweather any bother. Or one who thinks Klitschko is a better boxer than Pacquaio. Im also secure enough that I don’t need to try to impress a bunch of strangers over the internet with made up stories of sparring or reposting predictions I got right. Or pretend I was watching Sugar Ray Leonard when I was actually 2 years old. You are a bit desperate aren’t you? Someone who just wants to be loved and respected. Have a gold star for your Froch prediction and wish Brook good luck for his Porter fight for me.

I imagine Cotto goes for Alvarez (should he beat Lara) rather than Mayweather. I think it'd do better business, also.
 
It will be interesting to see HBOs take on all this. Will they try and force a Cotto-Golovkin fight? They've thrown a lot of money at GGG after all.

kingraf wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

jabby wrote:Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy

Sorry fella but if you look at the fight with Margarito, Cotto's movement in the early rounds was excellent...Tony couldn't get near him and only slowed him down when he caught Cotto on the nose and his breathing was hampered from that point on.

Tijuana Tornado Tony wouldn't get near a 70-year old Ali. The guy has many strengths, among them choice gloves, tough chin, but controlling the space in the ring isn't one of them.

That wasn't the point, there are plenty of fighters who beat Marg without the good lateral movement shown by Cotto. Jabby stated Cotto was always a stand in front fighter and I disagreed.

kingraf wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

jabby wrote:Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy

Sorry fella but if you look at the fight with Margarito, Cotto's movement in the early rounds was excellent...Tony couldn't get near him and only slowed him down when he caught Cotto on the nose and his breathing was hampered from that point on.

Tijuana Tornado Tony wouldn't get near a 70-year old Ali. The guy has many strengths, among them choice gloves, tough chin, but controlling the space in the ring isn't one of them.

Margarito exerted intelligent, suffocating pressure, which eventually came to bear on Cotto. He was highly adept at closing down the ring -- that's controlling space in my book.

hazharrison wrote:I imagine Cotto goes for Alvarez (should he beat Lara) rather than Mayweather. I think it'd do better business, also.

It will be interesting to see HBOs take on all this. Will they try and force a Cotto-Golovkin fight? They've thrown a lot of monet at GGG after all.

The talk is already of Cotto/Alvarez as opposed to Golovkin

hazharrison wrote:

kingraf wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

jabby wrote:Martinez will have believed that he had what was needed to dispose of Cotto. Yes he has weak knees, but since when has Cotto been a mover? He's always been more of a stand in front guy

Sorry fella but if you look at the fight with Margarito, Cotto's movement in the early rounds was excellent...Tony couldn't get near him and only slowed him down when he caught Cotto on the nose and his breathing was hampered from that point on.

Tijuana Tornado Tony wouldn't get near a 70-year old Ali. The guy has many strengths, among them choice gloves, tough chin, but controlling the space in the ring isn't one of them.

Margarito exerted intelligent, suffocating pressure, which eventually came to bear on Cotto. He was highly adept at closing down the ring -- that's controlling space in my book.

Cotto was hampered by breathing difficulties and Marg was able to chase him down but yes, if he was poor at closing the space, Cotto would have mangaed to evade him. Even speedy little Manny got trapped on the ropes by Marg at one point. He wasn't as leaden footed as many would have you believe

DAVE667 wrote:First time I've heard a four weight world champion being labeled an under-acheiver

Cotto had all the skills in the world but often he chose to brawl. If he fought more with his head down through the years he may not have lost most of his big fights. Remember Duke McKenzie, three weight champ.

catchweight wrote:

You should really drop the whole patronising act if you are going to preach fair play or whinge like b1tch when you get slagged off for making up sparring stories. Its an annoying habit even with those who have the intellegince. But coming from a pathetic moron like yourself is clownish. I know you think it makes you sound important and intelligent but the content of your posts makes it self defeating and embarrassing.
In short, I stand by everything said. I think your counter points are either utter sh1te or completely missing the point. Im confident I have better grasp of boxing than someone who comes out with ignoramus statements like only 2/3 welterweights in history could give Mayweather any bother. Or one who thinks Klitschko is a better boxer than Pacquaio. Im also secure enough that I don’t need to try to impress a bunch of strangers over the internet with made up stories of sparring or reposting predictions I got right. Or pretend I was watching Sugar Ray Leonard when I was actually 2 years old. You are a bit desperate aren’t you? Someone who just wants to be loved and respected. Have a gold star for your Froch prediction and wish Brook good luck for his Porter fight for me.

My wife does this. I'll raise an argument against her current course of action and then all of a sudden the fact I didn't wash the dishes 4 years ago comes to bear. The fact my sister didn't give her a lift into town one time - you know, stuff that is completely irrelevant to the argument. To be fair, I've only ever met women that do that, so to find a bloke that does it is rather rare. I retracted my Mayweather statement. Point 1. I have never said Klitschko is a better boxer than Pacquiao, don't make stuff up. I used to watch old SRL tapes with my dad, he used to record the fights and we'd watch them together. I never said I watched them live.

If all you have is that one thing where I made up a story, i feel sorry for you, but I'm also annoyed at myself for spending the time trying to convince someone with the brain capacity of a gnat (seriously, insult someones intelligence when you can spell the word correctly)

Anyway, like I said originally, you mention Brook, you lose dignity. You did. You lose dignity. Nevermore shall I read your posts because I will automatically assume they are biased, ill thought out and wrong.