Tonights Action *Spoilers*

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Boxnations coverage is just about to start in Newcastle, David Price fought earlier and went ten rounds winning a unanimous decision, hopefully that'll give him some confidence regarding his stamina.

Read fat Dans ESPN article Kingraf. Doesn't even mention the legs apart from quoting Martinez talking about them in the post fight interview. That my friend is as nutthuggery as it gets in boxing.

Martinez claims his legs were fine but it was the first knockdown that he didn't recover from . Yea right! Respect Martinez for not wanting to ruin Cottos night by bringing out the excuses but it was clear to see what went on last night. Martinez claimed his legs where 100 percent fine going in so couldn't really backtrack on that.

But to try and tell us that Cotto is THE man at middle is crazy. If he had of fought and beat the Martinez that turned up against Murray I'd consider it. But this was a shell, like a smartie shell. Out of the ring for 18 months, knees of an 80 year old AND A CATCHWEIGHT! Why's Freddie Roach always sniffing around fights like these??

Haven't read his article yet, but judging by the tweets he was retweeting, wouldn't surprise me.

Takes a special kind of myopia to see a nearly 40-year old fighter undergo two knee surgeries, request to wear a brace in the ring, and still show up with some form of sleeve for the knee... and still believe he's fully fit.

The way negotiations went for this fight, it would not surprise me if it was in the contract that Martinez wasn't allowed to complain about his knee.

Shocker of a result though.

It was patently obvious from the first bell that Martinez couldn't really move like he used to and it's well known that his entire style is dependent on movement so it became kinda like RJJ when he lost his reflexes.

What surprises me the most is that Cotto actually couldn't take him out in this state.

Sad for Martinez but I think he knew and wanted a last pay day and I think he should have retired, but equally, I don't believe Cotto really 'deserves' the lineal title but he did what he had to do.

The best part of the plan that he and Roach put together was to wait for Martinez to enter this phase of health and career and then go for him. As they say, it's all about 'timing' - and it isn't all about how you time your punches!

I firmly think this was Martinez's fight to lose and he did as his body has betrayed him. Cotto will be destroyed by the first genuine, decent MW he faces.

I hope Martinez has enough money to retired comfortably but I bet they'll all be crawling out of the woodwork to face Cotto now (most likely Mayweather - yet he has been avoiding Pacquiao like the plague for years).

Plenty of movement by martinez in the first. It was his chin that let him down. Cottos strength and power were phenomenal. Atlas called this fight perfectly.

3fingers wrote:Plenty of movement by martinez in the first. It was his chin that let him down. Cottos strength and power were phenomenal. Atlas called this fight perfectly.

Sure...

Yea Cotto is a wrecking machine. Martinez was moving alright....like my granda

Thing with a result like this is it makes it okay for younger fighters to just wait good fighters off. When supposed scribes like Rafael sing from the rooftop after a fight like this, it legitimizes the tactic. Which in turn reduces the likelihood of live fights.

Truth be told; everyone including Cotto himself knows that he beat a shadow or Martinez last night, in fact even that's probably a little too kind.

Given what occurred we can all now safely say that Martinez was smart for not wanting anything to do with GGG and fair enough..got a big payday out of Cotto in his last fight and didn't get to hurt.GGG would have steamrolled that version in destructive fashion last night.

Now what is going to make my blood boil is that we all know that Mayweather will suddenly claim he is ready to chase history and step up to Middleweight to claim another title...this despite wanting nothing to do with the division for past 2 years!

Cotto vs Mayweather is an absolute lock for September and most likely at a catch weight between light middle and middle. EUGH!!

This was a sad specticle and anyone who thinks cotto is 'the man' at middleweight is im afraid in for a rude awakening when he fights a healthy top 10 middleweight

Did everyone see the purses for this fight? Cotto got $7m guaranteed while Martinez got $1.5m plus a share of the PPV revenue. Not often the main guy in the division gets such smaller chunk of the cash.

A-Sides Paul, all about the A-Sides

Looks like Sergio pulled a Darren Barker on this one. Anyone in the States that paid top dollar to watch that on ppv must be feeling short changed. Cynical enough stuff by Martinez.

How is it cynical?
Asked for permission to wear a brace to the fight
Admitted he's in pain during training
Revealed long in advance to have had two knee surgeries...

You'd have to be Dan Rafael, or myopic to not think there's a chance he's completely done. Then he comes in a little soft during the weigh in, I mean, really?

I didn't think Martinez took that much punishment, The 1st round he looked like bambi on ice, but it looked more balance related than blunt force trauma. He circled and stayed away as best he could after that, it seemed only in 9th did Cotto start to really lay on some punishment.

I'll get killed here but it looked a soft stoppage, I'm with Strongy, it seems a bit of a paycheck collection. It looks like he came in crocked, knew after the first round there was nothing there and his corner pulled him after his first round of punishment. Pension payment.

Agreed about the paycheque theory.

Lying about his knee, then coming in with his lower half looking like an Egyptian mummy then trying to say the knees weren't an issue. Yea right Sergio, we all had blindfolds on like Dan Rafael

kingraf wrote:How is it cynical?
Asked for permission to wear a brace to the fight
Admitted he's in pain during training
Revealed long in advance to have had two knee surgeries...

You'd have to be Dan Rafael, or myopic to not think there's a chance he's completely done. Then he comes in a little soft during the weigh in, I mean, really?

Easy in hindsight to say there was a chance Sergio was completely done. A Martinez at 60-70% at middleweight would have been enough to defeat Cotto. Sergio knew his legs were gone but said they were fine pre and post fight, that's cynical and mislead the fans who bought ppv.

Have to say, Roach saying Cotto is a better boxer was a bit much! lol .. Cotto has been beaten by all the top boxers and just because he has now beaten a 39 year old with shot legs, does not all of a sudden make him a cut above.

then again I dont see Roach as the most tasteful of people anyway.

Strongback wrote:

kingraf wrote:How is it cynical?
Asked for permission to wear a brace to the fight
Admitted he's in pain during training
Revealed long in advance to have had two knee surgeries...

You'd have to be Dan Rafael, or myopic to not think there's a chance he's completely done. Then he comes in a little soft during the weigh in, I mean, really?

Easy in hindsight to say there was a chance Sergio was completely done. A Martinez at 60-70% at middleweight would have been enough to defeat Cotto. Sergio knew his legs were gone but said they were fine pre and post fight, that's cynical and mislead the fans who bought ppv.

Not hindsight when I wrote a thread asking just how fit Martinez really was.

Freddie has a habit of getting his fighters to fight faded greats who it appears before the fight have little chance, its giving me flashbacks to ODLH v Manny

Interesting how many are are seeing this as an overnight disintegration of martinez. Knees don't effect your chin, his punch resistance and his inability to avoid them has become increasingly apparent. When was the last time he looked good? Dzinruk? That was over three years ago. The knees were the straw that broke the camels back but we all knew this was coming sometime soon... We just didn't know if last night was the night and didn't expect it to be as emphatic as it was.

Like roy jones, sometimes it's pretty dramatic when it happens but more so than jones, the writing was on the wall in bold capitals and had been for a while.

Roach said Oscar couldn't pull the trigger anymore and pitched manny in with him, he repeated the trick last night.

Would frank warren have let hatton in with the Tszyu who flattened Judah? would Leonard have fought the hagler of 3 or 4 years earlier etc.

I wouldn't be critical of cotto, timing is everything.

Milky he couldn't keep his balance or turn his feet. He was circling in tiny steps or bouncing to the side with his feet straight to avoid hurting his legs. He was wobbling at times when Cotto was missing ffs

Completely agree Milky. Cotton destroyed Martinez last night BIG TIME.

Every shot he landed (left hook mainly) had him on queer street.

He just looked a different animal compared his last few fights.

Cotto vs GGG will be great if it happens!!

Martinez may have bad knees, but he was thoroughly whooped last night and as far as I'm concerned that wasn't the only reason he lost.

Discredit cotto all you want, but last not was an emphatic performance from him whether anyone agrees or not.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Completely agree Milky. Cotton destroyed Martinez last night BIG TIME.

Every shot he landed (left hook mainly) had him on queer street.

He just looked a different animal compared his last few fights.

Cotto vs GGG will be great if it happens!!

Martinez may have bad knees, but he was thoroughly whooped last night and as far as I'm concerned that wasn't the only reason he lost.

Discredit cotto all you want, but last not was an emphatic performance from him whether anyone agrees or not.

Sure, we'll go with that, because people on bum knees aren't wobbled easier. I mean, what's a knee?

Good riddance Martinez. Glad his attempt to beat up on a past it former welterweight backfired. Total rip off to the public showing up to a fight like that needing a zimmerframe.

Not over night Milky but Sergio has always been a more talented fighter than Cotto, then throw in the physical advantages and there only looked like one winner even with Sergio's known deterioration thrown in. Sergio turned up unable to compete in a meaningful way, was this really a clear case of a known unknown or just Sergio taking the fight knowing he had little to.offer? To me Martinez bluffed his way to a pay check.

Even if Martinez had been half fit this fight was always no more than a pension affair between fighters trying to squeeze the last life out of their careers. Martinez thought Cotto was small and past it enough that he could show up half crocked and still win and get a juicy pay day.

The biggest problem is if fans and pundits give excuses for 'bouts' like it then they will continue to happen and further damage the sport.

Strongback wrote:Not over night Milky but Sergio has always been a more talented fighter than Cotto, then throw in the physical advantages and there only looked like one winner even with Sergio's known deterioration thrown in. Sergio turned up unable to compete in a meaningful way, was this really a clear case of a known unknown or just Sergio taking the fight knowing he had little to.offer? To me Martinez bluffed his way to a pay check.

That's entirely possible strongy, it's also possible that as a fighting man and one who appears to have more integrity than most, that Martinez knew he had issues but believed he would be 'all right on the night'. Freddy  obviously thought otherwise, and he based that on martinez' last fights.

I said before the fight that it wasn't a fight I'd bet on, in that it was about how far martinez had fallen. Personally I think his struggles with all the Brits say more about him than them.

As for knees and physiology, if his knees are shot his movement is hampered which is a serious issue for any fighter, and especially for a guy who relies on movement like martinez. It's an obvious handicap. I disagree with raf on their role in punch resistance. Sure they're needed to regain balance, but a blow to the temple or jaw that makes a guys legs/body disobey him, aren't effected by the state of your knees. In short, bad knees  = harder to avoid punches, harder to get your own off, no real impact on punch resistance.

Well according to Sergio himself he said he never recovered after that first meaty left hook that had him on queer street. He got caught by a big punch and couldn't come back from it. At least he is honest in defeat.

On to Alvarez v Cotto now I would say. Mega rich fight.

... Also plenty of people picked cotto for this. Were they all doing so in blind faith or did they think the timing was right.

Almost as many people  excusing their bum predictions on this one as there were gloating about calling last weeks 

milkyboy wrote:

Strongback wrote:Not over night Milky but Sergio has always been a more talented fighter than Cotto, then throw in the physical advantages and there only looked like one winner even with Sergio's known deterioration thrown in. Sergio turned up unable to compete in a meaningful way, was this really a clear case of a known unknown or just Sergio taking the fight knowing he had little to.offer? To me Martinez bluffed his way to a pay check.

That's entirely possible strongy, it's also possible that as a fighting man and one who appears to have more integrity than most, that Martinez knew he had issues but believed he would be 'all right on the night'. Freddy  obviously thought otherwise, and he based that on martinez' last fights.

I said before the fight that it wasn't a fight I'd bet on, in that it was about how far martinez had fallen. Personally I think his struggles with all the Brits say more about him than them.

As for knees and physiology, if his knees are shot his movement is hampered which is a serious issue for any fighter, and especially for a guy who relies on movement like martinez. It's an obvious handicap. I disagree with raf on their role in punch resistance. Sure they're needed to regain balance, but a blow to the temple or jaw that makes a guys legs/body disobey him, aren't effected by the state of your knees. In short, bad knees  = harder to avoid punches, harder to get your own off, no real impact on punch resistance.

Stand on your toes with one leg, while tie other remains firmly planted and then ask your niece, to push you.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Well according to Sergio himself he said he never recovered after that first meaty left hook that had him on queer street. He got caught by a big punch and couldn't come back from it. At least he is honest in defeat.

Okay sure. Cotto is the second coming of Hagler.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Well according to Sergio himself he said he never recovered after that first meaty left hook that had him on queer street. He got caught by a big punch and couldn't come back from it. At least he is honest in defeat.

He was determined to show some class in defeat, so left his corner to make the excuses for him. Did that first punch just leave him leggy for the rest of the fight as he says, and therefore moving awkwardly (plenty said that about froch on the first groves fight)... Or were his legs all over the place from the off?

Martinez knew well that he was in bad shape. He wanted a knee brace. He thought he could get away with it because Cotto was shot and much smaller and brought a nice pay day with him. There was no integrity about this fight. Hes been using the bad knees excuse to explain away average performances for ages now but with this fight it was so obvious he wasnt fit that hes had to say soemthing else in order to save face in front of ripped off fans.

kingraf wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Strongback wrote:Not over night Milky but Sergio has always been a more talented fighter than Cotto, then throw in the physical advantages and there only looked like one winner even with Sergio's known deterioration thrown in. Sergio turned up unable to compete in a meaningful way, was this really a clear case of a known unknown or just Sergio taking the fight knowing he had little to.offer? To me Martinez bluffed his way to a pay check.

That's entirely possible strongy, it's also possible that as a fighting man and one who appears to have more integrity than most, that Martinez knew he had issues but believed he would be 'all right on the night'. Freddy  obviously thought otherwise, and he based that on martinez' last fights.

I said before the fight that it wasn't a fight I'd bet on, in that it was about how far martinez had fallen. Personally I think his struggles with all the Brits say more about him than them.

As for knees and physiology, if his knees are shot his movement is hampered which is a serious issue for any fighter, and especially for a guy who relies on movement like martinez. It's an obvious handicap. I disagree with raf on their role in punch resistance. Sure they're needed to regain balance, but a blow to the temple or jaw that makes a guys legs/body disobey him, aren't effected by the state of your knees. In short, bad knees  = harder to avoid punches, harder to get your own off, no real impact on punch resistance.

Stand on your toes with one leg, while tie other remains firmly planted and then ask your niece, to push you.

I don't have a niece. What part of 'they are needed to regain balance ' was too complicated for you fella. There's a difference between a knock down from loss of balance and one where the punch impact shuts down your body temporarily.

If you think all the knockdowns last night and in his previous couple of fights were all the former category then that's your prerogative. In which case he clearly wasn't in any trouble in the fights.

This fight is a copy of Barker vs Sturm when Barkers injuries exploded in the ring.

I fell for it myself a little, "Sturm has never looked better!!!!"

Then loses to Soliman straight away.

Cotto vs Trout. That's what happens again when Cotto takes on someone that can move properly

catchweight wrote:Martinez knew well that he was in bad shape. He wanted a knee brace. He thought he could get away with it because Cotto was shot and much smaller and brought a nice pay day with him. There was no integrity about this fight. Hes been using the bad knees excuse to explain away average performances for ages now but with this fight it was so obvious he wasnt fit that hes had to say soemthing else in order to save face in front of ripped off fans.

What excuse would you rather give. 'I'm chinny and have just been embarrassed by a man half my size'...Or ' I genuinely thought they'd hold up, and didn't want to disappoint the fans, but I was wrong?'

I don't think he'd get too big a backlash for the latter. Barker got away with it. Martinez had to swallow a bit if pride to give the answer he did. I don't see his purse being withheld if he'd said the latter.

But his change in trainer Reeborn looks to have brought the best out of him IMO.

Roach is a genius matchmaker though mate. ESPN Friday night fighter then a champion who hadn't fought in 18 months and lied about his knees being 100% when they were far from it...plus a catchweight . Is almost mannyesque

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:Martinez knew well that he was in bad shape. He wanted a knee brace. He thought he could get away with it because Cotto was shot and much smaller and brought a nice pay day with him. There was no integrity about this fight. Hes been using the bad knees excuse to explain away average performances for ages now but with this fight it was so obvious he wasnt fit that hes had to say soemthing else in order to save face in front of ripped off fans.

What excuse would you rather give. 'I'm chinny and have just been embarrassed by a man half my size'...Or ' I genuinely thought they'd hold up, and didn't want to disappoint the fans, but I was wrong?'

I don't think he'd get too big a backlash for the latter. Barker got away with it. Martinez had to swallow a bit if pride to give the answer he did. I don't see his purse being withheld if he'd said the latter.

He can give whatever excuse he likes, thats up to him. The truth of the affair is pretty obvious. Im not going to pretend that his reasons were down to trying to show integrity. He was trying to save his own a$$ for a cynical move that totally backfired. A lot of fans might forgive Sergio the Poster Boy for turning up half crocked in a rip off fight but I think he deserves the criticism he gets for the whole fight. Im glad it backfired on him. Even if leads to the preposterous situation where a shot Miguel Cotto is THE middleweight champion of the world.

Milky how could Martinez tell a crowd of 20k that he was talking BS about him being fine and getting them to spend their money to go into his bank account when in fact he wasn't fine. His legs were as weak as you'll ever see a set of legs .

Weird that Cottos last 2 title wins have came against fighters with dodgy knees. Foreman and Martinez

"All fighters carry injuries, my knee problems are well documented, but I've always managed to win. Felt ok in training but nothing replicates a real fight etc etc blah blah" the same stuff everybody comes out with in defeat.

Personally I think he wanted to say the right thing, be magnanimous in defeat and let his trainer make the excuses for him... Which he did. So the camp blamed his knees in front of 15000 people anyway.

Dont be too surprised if in 6 or 12 months time when the fallout has died down and faded, we see Martinez give an interview where he admits he was nowhere near fit for that fight but that after a good break he now feels 100% great and wants a rematch with Cotto or whoever it is who displaces him (Alvarez probably). One last pay day.

... Only for his knees to let him down again on fight night

Martinez's knees have been wrecked for years, but he has still been grinding out results. He might just have backed himself to do the same last night against a smaller and slightly less shot opponent.

Only Martinez knows whether he came to win or just for the paycheck. I like to think the former, but there seem to be some bitter/cynical people on here who think otherwise. Its not like this was a rip off of Barker-esque levels - Martinez struggled on through 3/4 of the fight.

Its a sport that can make a cynic of a saint joey. Not that there's many halo's round here.

He knew his knees were screwed. He hand picked a Cotto he thought was on the scrap heap and he might just get away with dodgy knees against. Closer to the fight when he was requesting a knee brace he must have known his knees were totally gone and possibly didnt even think he could win but just didnt want to let a big pay day slip past. Whether he backed himself to win or not doesnt say much when his opponent was picked because he would be way out of his weight class and was shot himself. Awful cynical fight to flog on ppv. But Martinez can do wrong with some people. People are even blaming Roach and Cotto now for Martinez pension fight backfiring.