Whats Going On In Wales Part 3

by geoff998rugby Tue 10 Jun 2014, 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

Understand but if the EGM had gone a certain way his position would have been untenable.

Thats not going to happen now.

Did I hear correctly that a joint statement is due by WRU and RRW concerrning central/joint contracts.
Also heard something about an East/West split within RRW but they may be just groundless gossip

by HammerofThunor Sun 03 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm

Sorry, to be a killjoy but even the article is written as though is just something Gatland wants and no-one else has been involved. It's certainly suggesting they aren't talking at all.

But you never know. Sense may prevail.

by ScarletSpiderman Sun 03 Aug 2014, 8:21 pm

The talk, yep only talk, was a deal was agreed on prior to Gats going back to nz, only for the union to change their side of it. So fingers crossed this could mean the original (pre hols) deal may still get struck.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 04 Aug 2014, 8:41 am

If it comes off then great (won't hold breath) but there is one name on that list that I don't like or agree with and thats Anscombe.

For me it sucks of the whole JJ Hughes and I Harris etc fiascos in the past. I would rather see someone like Cory Allen or one of the other youngsters be given the place.

by Neutralee Mon 04 Aug 2014, 9:59 am

I find that list odd;

Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues)
Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys) - Odd, surely he's one player who bleeds Osprey?
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)
Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) - Has he ever been to Wales?
Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
Ken Owens (Scarlets)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) - Why? he's all but retired now anyway!
Scott Williams (Scarlets)
Liam Williams (Scarlets)

Surely Samson Lee, Rhys Patchell and Iuan Jones would be better options than those three?

by HammerofThunor Mon 04 Aug 2014, 10:14 am

Will all these players be on £400k then? I mean players are supposed to get paid the same for international duty (if this includes that). But how does it work for club stuff where players DO get paid different amounts? Will they negotiate it? Will it be used to top up their current contracts so the Regions can pay more if they want? If so what's the point of the Regions stumping up the money in the first place? It would make more sense that the WRU would offer an additional £200k to each of the listed players on top of their Regional salary to help to it up.

It just seems a bit half baked (which might be down to information not being passed on correctly/effective so the actual plan might be very sound).

by bedfordwelsh Mon 04 Aug 2014, 5:05 pm

Neutralee wrote:I find that list odd;

Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues)
Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys) - Odd, surely he's one player who bleeds Osprey?
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)
Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) - Has he ever been to Wales?
Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
Ken Owens (Scarlets)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) - Why? he's all but retired now anyway!
Scott Williams (Scarlets)
Liam Williams (Scarlets)

Surely Samson Lee, Rhys Patchell and Iuan Jones would be better options than those three?

Def agree on Lee would most probably have Dan Baker ahead of Jones, still undecided over Patchell but as I said why Anscombe there I don't know.

by Neutralee Mon 04 Aug 2014, 5:46 pm

Anscombe is a decent player though, and being only 23 is a great prospect, not sure I agree with the criticism over that.

I would agree with criticism over the system however!

Lee looks like he could be Jones with mobility, and a tenacity a South African would be proud of!

Not seen much of Baker, however most of Jones ive seen has been U20 too...

by bedfordwelsh Mon 04 Aug 2014, 8:25 pm

Picking Anscombe is a smack in the face to other young lads in Wales who have at least come through the system.

For me it just stinks of then Henry era and look how that ended.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 04 Aug 2014, 8:59 pm

Picking him when he hasn't proven himself on our shores is just wrong IMO. But Gats is crafty, he did say he capped North, Cuthbert and Prydie asap because they were also EQ, I have a feeling Anscombe may well be capped asap, then if made to prove himself if needed.

But I'm still not keen on any u20s cap playing for another nation, whether its technically acceptable or not.

by HammerofThunor Mon 04 Aug 2014, 9:15 pm

What I don't understand is that this money is supposed to help keep players in Wales. Anscombe has already signed (hasn't he?) so that's not a problem. So what's the point? Does it give more access? (Which is worrying because there are only 10 players). If he comes, proves himself, he can get in on it later. Surely it makes more sense for it to be Priestland or someone like that.

So it all seems a bit weird (unless some WRU deal was part of Anscombe deal.

by Cardiff Dave Tue 05 Aug 2014, 12:41 am

More talks today apparently. Yeah right.

by Cardiff Dave Tue 05 Aug 2014, 12:57 am

HammerofThunor wrote:What I don't understand is that this money is supposed to help keep players in Wales. Anscombe has already signed (hasn't he?) so that's not a problem. So what's the point? Does it give more access? (Which is worrying because there are only 10 players). If he comes, proves himself, he can get in on it later. Surely it makes more sense for it to be Priestland or someone like that.

So it all seems a bit weird (unless some WRU deal was part of Anscombe deal.

Well it is Welsh rugby so understandable.
What's also weird is that Cardiff allocate players to play for Ponty that play against Cardiff.
Not sure who's batting for which side these days.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 05 Aug 2014, 8:17 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Picking him when he hasn't proven himself on our shores is just wrong IMO. But Gats is crafty, he did say he capped North, Cuthbert and Prydie asap because they were also EQ, I have a feeling Anscombe may well be capped asap, then if made to prove himself if needed.

But I'm still not keen on any u20s cap playing for another nation, whether its technically acceptable or not.

SS,

I agree but at least North, Cuthbert and Prydie were already playing in Wales and had come through the system not parachuted in like Anscombe.

by Neutralee Tue 05 Aug 2014, 8:46 am

But lets put this in perspective, so many rugby clubs in England, Wales and Scotland advertise and look for SH players, is this not a slap in the face of the junior systems they constantly underfund?

Lets take a very well known Edinburgh high level amateur rugby club, have 5/6 'scholarship' players on their books, of which they paid their flights, helped them get work, or employed them directly, and funded their living costs etc, howevere only a few seasons previous decided the mini and junior section was too costly to run, and combined with a local school/club to share the costs.

Is this not a far more worrying thing? and don't get me wrong it's not just in Scotland, I have seen an English club close their junior sections down, and Welsh clubs threaten it on numerous occasions!

by Seagultaf Tue 05 Aug 2014, 9:37 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Fail wrote:Welsh rugby has been hit by a new calamity, with our regions scheduled to play in two different competitions on the same weekend in the coming season!

The release of the LV=Cup fixtures has revealed that the opening round of the Anglo-Welsh tournament clashes with a round of matches in the Guinness Pro 12.

It shows the Blues and the Scarlets are due to meet in the LV=Cup at the Arms Park on the weekend of October 31-November 2, with the Dragons hosting holders Exeter and the Ospreys travelling to Gloucester.

But on that same weekend, the four regions are supposed to be playing matches in the Pro12.

The Blues, Ospreys and Scarlets are due to be at home to Munster, Connacht and Zebre respectively, with the Dragons away to Ulster.

It remains unclear at the moment what the reason for the fixture clash is.

But LV= Cup organisers the RFU have issued the following statement: “The WRU is currently in negotiations with the regions regarding the Participation Agreement for the upcoming season.

“Once those negotiations have concluded, they will address the potential clash for Welsh clubs in Round 1 of the LV= Cup, the dates of which were agreed by all LV= Cup stakeholders back in April 2014.”

The LV=Cup is a complicated enough competition in its own rights, as teams don’t play sides in their own group.

The English clubs are unaffected by the clash as there are no Aviva Premiership matches scheduled for the weekend of October 31-Nov 2.

This is also a week before the first Autumn International against Australia, so Welsh Squad players will not be available for selection! So the Blues will have to play Munster and the Scarlets on the same weekend, without: Anscombe, Melon, Rees, Turnbull, Warburton, Cuthbert and co. The Scarlets will have to play against the Blues and Zebre without: Sanjay, Scott Williams, Priestland, both scrum halfs, Owen, Lee, Ball and possibly Shingler.

Couldn't organise a p...s up in a brewery!

by Seagultaf Tue 05 Aug 2014, 9:41 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Picking him when he hasn't proven himself on our shores is just wrong IMO. But Gats is crafty, he did say he capped North, Cuthbert and Prydie asap because they were also EQ, I have a feeling Anscombe may well be capped asap, then if made to prove himself if needed.

But I'm still not keen on any u20s cap playing for another nation, whether its technically acceptable or not.

SS,

I agree but at least North, Cuthbert and Prydie were already playing in Wales and had come through the system not parachuted in like Anscombe.

There is a big difference in picking a young promising wing to plug a gap created by injuries and doling out a central contract to a totally unproven import.

If the limit is 10 players then Samson or Adam should be the 10th choice.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 05 Aug 2014, 10:24 am

Seagul, neither the Blues or Scarlets will be missing players as the international window starts on the Monday.

Also, for the central contracts I think agree that Anscombe should prove himself first. Although I sure as heck wouldn't waste time contracting Adam. He was waining before the scrum changes and has fallen even further behind since.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 05 Aug 2014, 10:27 am

If you think about replacing like for like as in back for a back then for me Cory Allen should be given the contract ahead of Anscombe.

by Seagultaf Tue 05 Aug 2014, 12:59 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Seagul, neither the Blues or Scarlets will be missing players as the international window starts on the Monday.

Also, for the central contracts I think agree that Anscombe should prove himself first. Although I sure as heck wouldn't waste time contracting Adam. He was waining before the scrum changes and has fallen even further behind since.

The now expired "Participation Agreement" between the Regions and the WRU gave the National Team access to the players 13 days before the test match. It is my understanding that the new participation agreement, when and if it is agreed, will have a similar clause. As the Australia game is on the 8th November, the Welsh squad players (apart from any players released) will not be available for selection by the Regions.

I tend to agree with your comments on Adam, but Melon is also very much on the wane and is one of the ten! I suspect that Samson will be first choice next season and for the World Cup so his ommission is probably the biggest suprise.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 05 Aug 2014, 1:45 pm

IF and that is a big IF there is a new agreement then maybe it will have the same clause. But also at the same time the RFU did say

“The WRU is currently in negotiations with the regions regarding the Participation Agreement for the upcoming season.

“Once those negotiations have concluded, they will address the potential clash for Welsh clubs in Round 1 of the LV= Cup, the dates of which were agreed by all LV= Cup stakeholders back in April 2014.”

So I would assume that IF a deal is struck then these fixtures will be part of it.

I do agree with regards a few names on the list, as to whether or not they are going to feature much next year. I believe Samson is tied up for another few years (didn't he sign a 5yr deal end of season before last?), so he isn't a major issue as they can grab him in a few years time.

by Neutralee Tue 05 Aug 2014, 1:46 pm

Didn't Owen Williams have 3 years left on his contract too?

by **Notch** Tue 05 Aug 2014, 2:04 pm

Does anyone know when Anscombe actually arrives in Wales? Is he due to play for Auckland in the ITM Cup? If he does it will probably mean he'll arrive somewhere between the middle of October and the end of November, right?

by Chunky Norwich Tue 05 Aug 2014, 2:13 pm

Notch wrote:Does anyone know when Anscombe actually arrives in Wales? Is he due to play for Auckland in the ITM Cup? If he does it will probably mean he'll arrive somewhere between the middle of October and the end of November, right?

November

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 05 Aug 2014, 3:32 pm

Neutralee wrote:Didn't Owen Williams have 3 years left on his contract too?

Which Owen Williams? The fly half was coming tot he end of his contract when he left, and signed for Leicester before his region managed to put together a contract.

Anscombe should be from mid October-ish

by Neutralee Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:44 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Neutralee wrote:Didn't Owen Williams have 3 years left on his contract too?

Which Owen Williams? The fly half was coming tot he end of his contract when he left, and signed for Leicester before his region managed to put together a contract.

Anscombe should be from mid October-ish

The Scarlet fella, on fire for them before leaving. Was his contract ending? I thought he had a long term contract in place?

by Seagultaf Tue 05 Aug 2014, 5:11 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:IF and that is a big IF there is a new agreement then maybe it will have the same clause. But also at the same time the RFU did say

“The WRU is currently in negotiations with the regions regarding the Participation Agreement for the upcoming season.

“Once those negotiations have concluded, they will address the potential clash for Welsh clubs in Round 1 of the LV= Cup, the dates of which were agreed by all LV= Cup stakeholders back in April 2014.”

So I would assume that IF a deal is struck then these fixtures will be part of it.

I do agree with regards a few names on the list, as to whether or not they are going to feature much next year. I believe Samson is tied up for another few years (didn't he sign a 5yr deal end of season before last?), so he isn't a major issue as they can grab him in a few years time.

I don't see that there is much doubt that there will be an agreement and it will involve the Regions providing increased access to the players for test rugby outside IRB regs. Not so much of an issue this season with so many players now playing outside Wales. May be a problem in coming up with a competitive side for the extra game against South Africa at the end of November though! IF there is no participation agreement though, then the problem is solved as the Regions will not be entered into the Guinness League by the WRU so no fixture clash.

Samson is potentially the cornerstone of the Welsh pack for the next 10 years, clubs from across the border have already come chasing him, so he is IMO someone who needs to be tied to the Welsh set up ASAP and not rely on Regional contracts which as we have seen in recent years are easy to break.

by Seagultaf Tue 05 Aug 2014, 5:14 pm

Neutralee wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Neutralee wrote:Didn't Owen Williams have 3 years left on his contract too?

Which Owen Williams? The fly half was coming tot he end of his contract when he left, and signed for Leicester before his region managed to put together a contract.

Anscombe should be from mid October-ish

The Scarlet fella, on fire for them before leaving. Was his contract ending? I thought he had a long term contract in place?

I think you are talking about Josh Turnbull, he did have a very good end to the season. This is symptomatic of the tough decisions the Regions are having to make, Josh had been injured and took a long time getting back to form. At the same time the Scarlets had 3 other good flankers they needed to provide game time to, so one had to go. Great buy for the Blues if he can stay fit.

by Chunky Norwich Tue 05 Aug 2014, 5:53 pm

Seagultaf wrote:

I don't see that there is much doubt that there will be an agreement and it will involve the Regions providing increased access to the players for test rugby outside IRB regs.

Increased? As in MORE than 13 days?

Not so much of an issue this season with so many players now playing outside Wales. May be a problem in coming up with a competitive side for the extra game against South Africa at the end of November though!

If there IS an agreement the 4th AI is in doubt? I think you have this all arse about face.

IF there is no participation agreement though, then the problem is solved as the Regions will not be entered into the Guinness League by the WRU so no fixture clash.

The regions have already been assured they are in the Pro12 next season.

It would be a disaster if Samson signed a central contract

by bedfordwelsh Tue 05 Aug 2014, 10:14 pm

If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 05 Aug 2014, 10:45 pm

Neutralee - yeah that Owen Williams was out of contract the end of that season, he played v tigers, and got poached. He signed for them before we even put a renewal in front of him. Supposedly his agent pointed out Steve Shingler was returning, so Owen (before his string of games) would be 3-4th choice at PYS. Easters was pretty fuming at the time about how it was done too.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 06 Aug 2014, 2:03 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

by doctornickolas Wed 06 Aug 2014, 3:12 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why would they never work in Wales? What's so special about us. They work very very well in the 3 best teams in the world and also Ireland. All of which are better teams than us. So why specifically would it not work in Wales?

by HammerofThunor Wed 06 Aug 2014, 3:16 pm

doctornickolas wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why would they never work in Wales? What's so special about us. They work very very well in the 3 best teams in the world and also Ireland. All of which are better teams than us. So why specifically would it not work in Wales?

Because the WRU don't want to contract every player, as they do for the 4 teams you mentioned. They 'won't' work if you're doing a half-arsed job with it.

by Sin é Wed 06 Aug 2014, 3:38 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
doctornickolas wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why would they never work in Wales? What's so special about us. They work very very well in the 3 best teams in the world and also Ireland. All of which are better teams than us. So why specifically would it not work in Wales?

Because the WRU don't want to contract every player, as they do for the 4 teams you mentioned. They 'won't' work if you're doing a half-arsed job with it.

What won't work? What it means is that the Clubs will basically have a free international standard player for most their games and can use the money saved on their wage getting decent cover for them when they are on international duty.

Only about 15 Irish players are on central contracts.

by Sam Wed 06 Aug 2014, 4:12 pm

Is Adam Jones training with anyone at the moment?

by HammerofThunor Wed 06 Aug 2014, 4:34 pm

Sin é wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
doctornickolas wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why would they never work in Wales? What's so special about us. They work very very well in the 3 best teams in the world and also Ireland. All of which are better teams than us. So why specifically would it not work in Wales?

Because the WRU don't want to contract every player, as they do for the 4 teams you mentioned. They 'won't' work if you're doing a half-arsed job with it.

What won't work? What it means is that the Clubs will basically have a free international standard player for most their games and can use the money saved on their wage getting decent cover for them when they are on international duty.

Only about 15 Irish players are on central contracts.

I was under the impression that all Irish players were contracted to the union (I think it was Notch who said that but not sure). Just some are on central contracts (don't really understand the differences). Although even if they're contract to the Provincial branch it's still part of the IRFU.

Having a small sample of players that are given additional support by being given a 'free' player is 'unfair' on the others. Back when most of the Welsh team were playing for the Ospreys would they have got a massive benefit compared to the others? How would that be balanced with the massive burden during internationals? I just don't see the point of central contracting a handful of players, unless the point is to give asymmetric support to the teams. If your system has all players contracted to the union, then fine, it works. Otherwise just have an agreement with the teams for the additional control (like with the RFU).

by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 Aug 2014, 4:45 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why wouldn't they, I agree if its just the one as it is then it won't work but if a fair chunk of those players in Wales were on it then again why wouldn't it work. Also why ask Adam Jones he's not even on one.

by St John The Enforcer Wed 06 Aug 2014, 4:49 pm

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/28650156

Luke Chartris would only return on a WRU central contract.

Wish they would sort something out. Don't care if it is central contracts or what the hell they do. Just wish they would decide on the "least worst" option for all concerned and move on ti fock.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 Aug 2014, 1:48 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Why wouldn't they, I agree if its just the one as it is then it won't work but if a fair chunk of those players in Wales were on it then again why wouldn't it work.

WRU can only afford about 5 of them
WRU wants to kill regions so would shaft the teams at any given opportunity
WRU would move players about between regions to mess them about
WRU would hardly allow them to play over 20 games a season - that's about 7 games for the region.

pointless.

Also why ask Adam Jones he's not even on one.

Because he was set to sign with the Ospreys on 250k, when the Union jumped in and offered 300k if the Ospreys backed out. He then fancied the extra Union dosh, but then his form started going all to pot. Both parties hence withdrew their offers and he currently has no club and is training on his own. Due to the Union butting in and competing with the regions..

by Cardiff Dave Thu 07 Aug 2014, 10:58 pm

"Dragons chief Gareth Davies wants WRU board role

Newport Gwent Dragons chief Gareth Davies is seeking election to the board of the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU).
WRU chairman David Pickering hopes to retain his place on the board. He and Davies are among five bidding for two available national director places."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/28695714

01 January 2014;

"Dragons chief Gareth Davies questions WRU stance

Newport Gwent Dragons chief executive Gareth Davies has questioned the Welsh Rugby Union's directors' stance in the row that threatens to split the game.
Davies also accused the WRU of acting unreasonably during recent negotiations...."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25568950

by Cardiff Dave Thu 07 Aug 2014, 11:25 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:

Why wouldn't they, I agree if its just the one as it is then it won't work but if a fair chunk of those players in Wales were on it then again why wouldn't it work.

WRU can only afford about 5 of them
WRU wants to kill regions so would shaft the teams at any given opportunity
WRU would move players about between regions to mess them about
WRU would hardly allow them to play over 20 games a season - that's about 7 games for the region.

pointless.

Also why ask Adam Jones he's not even on one.

Because he was set to sign with the Ospreys on 250k, when the Union jumped in and offered 300k if the Ospreys backed out. He then fancied the extra Union dosh, but then his form started going all to pot. Both parties hence withdrew their offers and he currently has no club and is training on his own. Due to the Union butting in and competing with the regions..

I know as much about CCs as Gallacher seemed to when asked about them at that Arms Park press conference back in April last year ie nothing much at all. I still believe the idea is a big red herring and remain unconvinced.

by **Notch** Thu 07 Aug 2014, 11:28 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Sin é wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
doctornickolas wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why would they never work in Wales? What's so special about us. They work very very well in the 3 best teams in the world and also Ireland. All of which are better teams than us. So why specifically would it not work in Wales?

Because the WRU don't want to contract every player, as they do for the 4 teams you mentioned. They 'won't' work if you're doing a half-arsed job with it.

What won't work? What it means is that the Clubs will basically have a free international standard player for most their games and can use the money saved on their wage getting decent cover for them when they are on international duty.

Only about 15 Irish players are on central contracts.

I was under the impression that all Irish players were contracted to the union (I think it was Notch who said that but not sure). Just some are on central contracts (don't really understand the differences). Although even if they're contract to the Provincial branch it's still part of the IRFU.

Having a small sample of players that are given additional support by being given a 'free' player is 'unfair' on the others. Back when most of the Welsh team were playing for the Ospreys would they have got a massive benefit compared to the others? How would that be balanced with the massive burden during internationals? I just don't see the point of central contracting a handful of players, unless the point is to give asymmetric support to the teams. If your system has all players contracted to the union, then fine, it works. Otherwise just have an agreement with the teams for the additional control (like with the RFU).

My understanding is that the salaries for the guys who have central contracts are external to the provincial budget. i.e. Paul O'Connell is paid by the Union so Munster don't have to worry about him- or maybe they pay him a basic salary but the IRFU tops it up, I'm not sure. But then the Union has more say in managing his game time to make sure he peaks for the test windows. He'll have an individual training programme tailored for him by whoever is in charge of IRFU S&C and he'll have a certain number of minutes that he plays in a season based on their assessment of where he is physically. This is flexible and can be changed if they think he needs more game time or whatever.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 07 Aug 2014, 11:35 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:IF and that is a big IF there is a new agreement then maybe it will have the same clause. But also at the same time the RFU did say

“The WRU is currently in negotiations with the regions regarding the Participation Agreement for the upcoming season.

“Once those negotiations have concluded, they will address the potential clash for Welsh clubs in Round 1 of the LV= Cup, the dates of which were agreed by all LV= Cup stakeholders back in April 2014.”

So I would assume that IF a deal is struck then these fixtures will be part of it.

I do agree with regards a few names on the list, as to whether or not they are going to feature much next year. I believe Samson is tied up for another few years (didn't he sign a 5yr deal end of season before last?), so he isn't a major issue as they can grab him in a few years time.

I don't see that there is much doubt that there will be an agreement and it will involve the Regions providing increased access to the players for test rugby outside IRB regs. Not so much of an issue this season with so many players now playing outside Wales. May be a problem in coming up with a competitive side for the extra game against South Africa at the end of November though! IF there is no participation agreement though, then the problem is solved as the Regions will not be entered into the Guinness League by the WRU so no fixture clash.

Samson is potentially the cornerstone of the Welsh pack for the next 10 years, clubs from across the border have already come chasing him, so he is IMO someone who needs to be tied to the Welsh set up ASAP and not rely on Regional contracts which as we have seen in recent years are easy to break.

No thanks. Less access and adhering to IRB regs is the way forward. The regs are defined for a reason and international rugby is supersaturated already.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 07 Aug 2014, 11:56 pm

doctornickolas wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If there were a group who signed rather than just the 1 as it is then why would it be a disaster and I would love if the 4th AI game was dropped.

Because central contracts are a disaster and would never work in Wales. Ask Sam WRUburton and Adam Jones.

Why would they never work in Wales? What's so special about us. They work very very well in the 3 best teams in the world and also Ireland. All of which are better teams than us. So why specifically would it not work in Wales?

Do you have the time, to listen to me whine?

by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Aug 2014, 12:00 am

Sam wrote:Is Adam Jones training with anyone at the moment?

Clark's Pies?

by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Aug 2014, 12:07 am

So what is the WRU version of a central contract? What does it mean exactly, warts and all?

by Sam Fri 08 Aug 2014, 8:06 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Sam wrote:Is Adam Jones training with anyone at the moment?

Clark's Pies?

Just think he's going to be incredibly unfit if he isn't.

by Chunky Norwich Fri 08 Aug 2014, 10:35 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:

I know as much about CCs as Gallacher seemed to when asked about them at that Arms Park press conference back in April last year ie nothing much at all. I still believe the idea is a big red herring and remain unconvinced.

He passed the question to Andrew Hore. Who then gave a very succinct answer that every nation has different needs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1lRyZTxCoc&list=UU2FXpIE7wR46yh6jxndgXRg

by Seagultaf Fri 08 Aug 2014, 12:15 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:IF and that is a big IF there is a new agreement then maybe it will have the same clause. But also at the same time the RFU did say

“The WRU is currently in negotiations with the regions regarding the Participation Agreement for the upcoming season.

“Once those negotiations have concluded, they will address the potential clash for Welsh clubs in Round 1 of the LV= Cup, the dates of which were agreed by all LV= Cup stakeholders back in April 2014.”

So I would assume that IF a deal is struck then these fixtures will be part of it.

I do agree with regards a few names on the list, as to whether or not they are going to feature much next year. I believe Samson is tied up for another few years (didn't he sign a 5yr deal end of season before last?), so he isn't a major issue as they can grab him in a few years time.

I don't see that there is much doubt that there will be an agreement and it will involve the Regions providing increased access to the players for test rugby outside IRB regs. Not so much of an issue this season with so many players now playing outside Wales. May be a problem in coming up with a competitive side for the extra game against South Africa at the end of November though! IF there is no participation agreement though, then the problem is solved as the Regions will not be entered into the Guinness League by the WRU so no fixture clash.

Samson is potentially the cornerstone of the Welsh pack for the next 10 years, clubs from across the border have already come chasing him, so he is IMO someone who needs to be tied to the Welsh set up ASAP and not rely on Regional contracts which as we have seen in recent years are easy to break.

No thanks. Less access and adhering to IRB regs is the way forward. The regs are defined for a reason and international rugby is supersaturated already.

I dont disagree with the point you made. Unfortunately there is an extra Autumn test to play outside IRB regs, also the Regions recieve extra funding from this game, and they need more funds not less. The only alternative would be to slow down the loan payments on the Statdium, but as Roger Lewis's bonus is linked to this, so it wont happen!

by Sin é Fri 08 Aug 2014, 12:37 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:No thanks. Less access and adhering to IRB regs is the way forward. The regs are defined for a reason and international rugby is supersaturated already.

The reason why they are defined by the IRB is because some Northern Hemisphere clubs were not releasing players for international duty - particularly players from countries like Fiji, Tonga, Argentina etc. who have come north to earn their living.

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