Whats Going On In Wales Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Understand but if the EGM had gone a certain way his position would have been untenable.

Thats not going to happen now.

Did I hear correctly that a joint statement is due by WRU and RRW concerrning central/joint contracts.
Also heard something about an East/West split within RRW but they may be just groundless gossip

Irish Londoner wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:These clubs that are folding / in real of danger of going under - did they vote that the Union were doing a sterling job 2 months ago at the EGM?
If they did, and shunned the chance of making change for the better in Wales, then sorry, I have no sympathy with them.

Sadly Chunks the problem was that the EGM became a stick with Lewis or gamble with Moffett event and a lot of the clubs seem to trust Moffett less than Lewis - admittedly this may have been like offering a choice between a slow painful death and a painful slow death....

If they were at all clued up on the reality of change, how it could have been made and what it would have meant for them - then they would all have known this was not the case.

Instead, all they cared about was getting money for their new shower block - not the future of Welsh rugby. And because of the vote, for some that painful death has now come around alot more quickly than they thought it would.

Chunky Norwich wrote:These clubs that are folding / in real of danger of going under - did they vote that the Union were doing a sterling job 2 months ago at the EGM?

If they did, and shunned the chance of making change for the better in Wales, then sorry, I have no sympathy with them.

Chunky, I think nearly all the Junior clubs voted to carry on, a few abstained and only a couple voted against the Union, most of these clubs wanted the EGM to sort out the new Leagues, those proposals were altered slightly and the clubs voted in a postal ballot to accept the new leagues, you say you have no sympathy with them, if you had played or supported any of these clubs you wouldn't have that attitude.
These clubs knew they still had 2 opportunities to get rid of Prickering and the Dodger, the first they took advantage of when the former was voted out in a secret ballot and there is still the AGM to come fairly soon (cann't remember when) if Gareth Davies is voted into the Chairman position that will help, and IIRC the new proposals for the make up to the new WRU board are to be submitted, hope something can be done to get rid of the other one

wayne wrote:
Chunky, I think nearly all the Junior clubs voted to carry on, a few abstained and only a couple voted against the Union, most of these clubs wanted the EGM to sort out the new Leagues, those proposals were altered slightly and the clubs voted in a postal ballot to accept the new leagues, you say you have no sympathy with them, if you had played or supported any of these clubs you wouldn't have that attitude.
These clubs knew they still had 2 opportunities to get rid of Prickering and the Dodger, the first they took advantage of when the former was voted out in a secret ballot and there is still the AGM  to come fairly soon (cann't remember when) if Gareth Davies is voted into the Chairman position that will help, and IIRC the new proposals for the make up to the new WRU board are to be submitted, hope something can be done to get rid of the other one

I'm close to a couple of the clubs actually. But they had their chance for wholesale changes across the board. And they Frak it.

Does anyone have any names of any of the clubs that have gone under?

Coleman wrote:Does anyone have any names of any of the clubs that have gone under?

Coleman, if you go on the BBC Sport Website click on Welsh Rugby and if you then scroll down you will see Swalec League Results, click on that and then scroll down, you will see 5 or 6 either Postponed, Cancelled or teams that have withdrawn from the League, one that has withdrawn is Newbridge United, as I said Blaengarw have, and their match shows as Postponed. My old team Pontycymmer played but they had difficulty raising a team, and the week before they couldn't, check out the postponed games and try to work out who could be folding

I know Tredegar RFC are struggling for players, as are Rhumney and other teams in and around Merthyr.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:These clubs that are folding / in real of danger of going under - did they vote that the Union were doing a sterling job 2 months ago at the EGM?
If they did, and shunned the chance of making change for the better in Wales, then sorry, I have no sympathy with them.

Sadly Chunks the problem was that the EGM became a stick with Lewis or gamble with Moffett event and a lot of the clubs seem to trust Moffett less than Lewis - admittedly this may have been like offering a choice between a slow painful death and a painful slow death....

If they were at all clued up on the reality of change, how it could have been made and what it would have meant for them - then they would all have known this was not the case.

Instead, all they cared about was getting money for their new shower block - not the future of Welsh rugby. And because of the vote, for some that painful death has now come around alot more quickly than they thought it would.

and sandwiches.

Irish Londoner wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:These clubs that are folding / in real of danger of going under - did they vote that the Union were doing a sterling job 2 months ago at the EGM?
If they did, and shunned the chance of making change for the better in Wales, then sorry, I have no sympathy with them.

Sadly Chunks the problem was that the EGM became a stick with Lewis or gamble with Moffett event and a lot of the clubs seem to trust Moffett less than Lewis - admittedly this may have been like offering a choice between a slow painful death and a painful slow death....

Yet Moffett had a plan which seemed to be aiming in the "right direction" (Cardiff joke there), but the clubs decided to play the man and not the ball.

[quote="LordDowlais"]

Coleman wrote:Off the current topic, but a friend of mine said that 8 teams have folded this season due to the league restructure. Does anyone know if this is true? Also i heard games had been called off due to a large lack of match officials.

Again, back to this, I spoke to my mate last night, and he was more than clued up on this and he told me practically everything that he thought was wrong with the new structure, the biggest thing is the refs, they are allocated to each area, some area's are over staffed with refs, others now do not have enough refs, and the thing is, most refs do not get enough money to travel around to ref games that are not in their regional structure, and the biggest worry for me was he told me the fact of the matter is that the gaps between the clubs in the new structure are too big, a team who were originally in a higher division are reluctant to go to a team from the lower divisions who's pitch is at the top at a mountain with one changing room and one shower, with two men and a dog watching, and then reasons they give are, that because these teams know they do not have a cat in hells chance of winning, they just want to turn up a smash seven bells into the superior team, regardless of the result, the old saying, they might have beat us on the scoreboard, but they did not beat us on the pitch attitude springs to mind, but he told me that he hopes that these are all just teething problems and it will most probably sort itself out in seasons to come.Also, he told me that a lot of the better players at the so called lesser clubs have now jumped ship to play for the so called better clubs who are throwing a bit of money around, thus starving other clubs of players.So, make of that what you will.

Speaking to family back home I know a lot of valley teams are struggling to field sides and gone are the days where clubs could field 2,3 even 4 sides.

It's a real shame to hear about Pontycymmer, i played against them a few times last season and the one before and it was always a tough, physical game played in the right spirit. Would be a shame to see them go.

As for Blaengarw, i can only feel sorry for them. They were in Div 6 last year and were not the best team but competitive. This year they're in a league with teams from division 4 & 5, no wonder nobody wants to play.

It's this parochial/local mentality of that's caused this. On scrum V where that pembroke team smashed its local opponents by 70 points because, in reality they're leagues above them, the guy whose team got spanked said his players will learn from it and be stronger. I'm sorry, but i would prefer to play against teams which are my teams level and may be spread about a bit rather than travel a mile up the road to get 70 odd points stuck on me.

Sad state of affairs.

For some, they are coming to middle age, and they do not play rugby for the spoils of victory, they just want the exorcise, and the excuse to be part of something that gets them out of the rut of being stuck inside with their pipe and slippers, mostly their family will come to watch them, they will all go back to the club house and all have a good day, they want go and play sides that have the same attitude as them, now for most they want the glory, they want to climb to the highest peak, they want it all, and these sides need to be playing the teams with the same aspirations as them, not thumping side who are not really there for the glory, what is the enjoyment in that ?

Couldn't agree more with LD. Not everyone is playing with dreams of making it in to the Prem or Championship. With the lack of 2's and 3's at clubs these days playing for your village in Div 7 central was all some people wanted. Can clubs re enter the district set up after becoming WRU members. Cardiff District used to have a good league a few years ago with Tongwynlis, Witchurch, Sully and a few others in it.

I just had a look at one league and it is ridiculous...Div 3 East Central C. Teams like Cardiff Saracens, Whitchurch, Tongwynlais & Sully have to travel to LLANDRINDOD WELLS RFC. For Whitchurch it is 68 MILES ONE WAY. Who thought that makes sense? The reason for the restructure, or one of the reasons, was costs involved in travelling!!

Upon reading Llandrindod Wells rfc's website, they've given a news update that not just Blaengarw but now Wick have withdrawn for the league so there's another name for the list.

Its not just in Wales though, or it never use to be at least, when I was in the mob I played for Stamford, we were in the Lincs, Notts and Derby League. Stamford was at the very base of Lincolnshire and some of the travelling we had to do on an away match was a nightmare with us having to leave between half 10 half 11 ish and then having to virtually come straight back at after the game.

At this level for me (back then) and people now its not all about glory its about the social element and being part of a group/team and the after game element is as much of the game as playing it.

I have also played for teams that have been smashed and played for teams doing the smashing and its never fun in the end.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Its not just in Wales though, or it never use to be at least, when I was in the mob I played for Stamford, we were in the Lincs, Notts and Derby League.  Stamford was at the very base of Lincolnshire and some of the travelling we had to do on an away match was a nightmare with us having to leave between half 10 half 11 ish and then having to virtually come straight back at after the game.

At this level for me (back then) and people now its not all about glory its about the social element and being part of a group/team and the after game element is as much of the game as playing it.I have also played for teams that have been smashed and played for teams doing the smashing and its never fun in the end.

I think that is what in a nutshell, the WRU have lost touch with, not every team in Wales wants to be pro's, some of them are full of families who just enjoy the day out, in the local club by me, even the wives help out with the food afterwards, and the kids get a glass of pop and a packet of crisps whilst the men have a few beers with each other, from both sides and just socialise. They all watch the footy results come in, and watch what ever rugby game is on the tele, and just chew the fat.

Yup. I fear this aspect of club rugby will disappear if we continue the current route, unless the districts can come in and give them a place to play.

LordDowlais wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Its not just in Wales though, or it never use to be at least, when I was in the mob I played for Stamford, we were in the Lincs, Notts and Derby League.  Stamford was at the very base of Lincolnshire and some of the travelling we had to do on an away match was a nightmare with us having to leave between half 10 half 11 ish and then having to virtually come straight back at after the game.

At this level for me (back then) and people now its not all about glory its about the social element and being part of a group/team and the after game element is as much of the game as playing it.I have also played for teams that have been smashed and played for teams doing the smashing and its never fun in the end.

I think that is what in a nutshell, the WRU have lost touch with, not every team in Wales wants to be pro's, some of them are full of families who just enjoy the day out, in the local club by me, even the wives help out with the food afterwards, and the kids get a glass of pop and a packet of crisps whilst the men have a few beers with each other, from both sides and just socialise. They all watch the footy results come in, and watch what ever rugby game is on the tele, and just chew the fat.

I can echo those sentiments, as I said previously I played for Pontycymmer, and after the first season of playing for the firsts, I decided to play for the 2nds, as we had a young family and the firsts had to turn up for training I couldn't give the time, and the players were a lot less serious. At the time early to mid 70s Pontycymmer and Blaengarw had 2 teams each and there was Garw youth as well, it has reached a sorry level now, things have to be reversed, in the recent PA the Regions are in total control of the Academy structure, as I said in a previous post about Andrew Hore being warned off, it would be a lot better if each Region was a lot more involved with the Junior clubs in its area, they couldn't do a worse job than the WRU in that respect.

LordDowlais wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Its not just in Wales though, or it never use to be at least, when I was in the mob I played for Stamford, we were in the Lincs, Notts and Derby League.  Stamford was at the very base of Lincolnshire and some of the travelling we had to do on an away match was a nightmare with us having to leave between half 10 half 11 ish and then having to virtually come straight back at after the game.

At this level for me (back then) and people now its not all about glory its about the social element and being part of a group/team and the after game element is as much of the game as playing it.I have also played for teams that have been smashed and played for teams doing the smashing and its never fun in the end.

I think that is what in a nutshell, the WRU have lost touch with, not every team in Wales wants to be pro's, some of them are full of families who just enjoy the day out, in the local club by me, even the wives help out with the food afterwards, and the kids get a glass of pop and a packet of crisps whilst the men have a few beers with each other, from both sides and just socialise. They all watch the footy results come in, and watch what ever rugby game is on the tele, and just chew the fat.

LD,

At my first camp it was the wives that kept the club going if it wasnt for them (as it is in most clubs) then there would be no bar staff or no food served no kit washed etc etc.

On the playing front I always wanted to win and like most players I hated losing and was lucky through a long service career to be involved with clubs that won a fair few trophies but for me personally that was as high a level as I was ever going to get and the social side was what made it the game I love.

South Wales not being the same as what it used to be may have something to do with it, maybe.

Here we go.......

"Gareth Davies’ email/letter to clubs

September 30, 2014

Subject: WRU Board appointment

Dear Club Secretary, Committee Members and colleagues in Welsh rugby

I have been overwhelmed by the very positive reaction of my election, by you, to the Board of the Welsh Rugby Union as a National Director.

Subsequent to that result, I have been approached by a number of people encouraging me to stand as Chairman of the Union in succession to David Pickering.

I am writing to you to ascertain if that is what the clubs really want, and if so, to encourage you to mandate your District representatives accordingly, so that the Board’s decision is in fact the wish of the whole of the game in Wales.

I also need to better understand the role of WRU Chairman, and before confirming my intention to stand, I have written to the Group CEO of the WRU asking for a job description/specification, so that I can be fully briefed on the position and what the job entails and what mandate the role carries.

Regards

Gareth"

http://gwladrugby.com/?p=1902

Raven or Raving?

So he'll be leaving the Dragons if he gets the role? It'd be nice to have someone who has had a hand in running a region at the top of the WRU.

Coleman wrote:So he'll be leaving the Dragons if he gets the role? It'd be nice to have someone who has had a hand in running a region at the top of the WRU.

Nailed on cert I reckon (I hope).

Would a One Time Regional Running Representative want even more WRU 'Running' Engagement with Regions if he becomes an WRU Representative?  
And wasn't that specifically what Regions Don't Want from the WRU - WRU men telling them what to do and interfering in Regional rugby at an admin level?


Poor Gareth doesn't genuinely know what he might be letting himself in for.  One moment a hero of the Regions - next minute just another pushy WRU suit trying to dictate Regional policy.  People don't always remember as long as they'd like and past heros can quickly become present demons in the eyes of the afflicted.
Davis will be contracted to look after the specific interests of WRU - new hat brings change in ideas - just ask any politican who ever handed you their manifesto before being voted for - seldom looks anything like what they actually get around to doing when in power.

The WRU/RRW duel continues;

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/mark-davies-interview-regional-rugby-7896216

"I've known Roger for a number of years and we have to make it work," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29719302

The word "Regional" has been dumped . It's now Pro Rugby Wales (PRW).
A step in the right direction methinks.....

http://www.prorugbywales.com/2014/10/28/new-look-pro-rugby-wales-takes-regional-rugby-forward/
http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Regional-Rugby-Wales-undergoes-change/story-23669745-detail/story.html

There is a re-branding going on but that said there are fresh changes taking place too.

Seems that the regions may all be shutting the door on a possible return for Lydiate too (if certain twits/twitters) are to be believed. It would make sense though, after all they have all put together squads that fit their budgets etc, and would still need to find some spare cash to pay his 'cheap' wages even if he were to be brought back on a dual contract.

If rumour is too be believed, the regions are pushing for the dual contracts to be used to retain players rather than bring players back.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Seems that the regions may all be shutting the door on a possible return for Lydiate too (if certain twits/twitters) are to be believed.  It would make sense though, after all they have all put together squads that fit their budgets etc, and would still need to find some spare cash to pay his 'cheap' wages even if he were to be brought back on a dual contract.

If rumour is too be believed, the regions are pushing for the dual contracts to be used to retain players rather than bring players back.

Good. But why wasn't this issue ironed out in the new agreement?

So where did this 'he returning to Wales' report start then I wonder. The way I read it is that something must have already been sorted or there abouts for this claim to be made. Will look a very silly report if he now signs for someone else.

I have hered the rumour that none of the regions are willing to take Lydiate back as well, and from what I can make of it, it is a stand of things going forward. To quote the great Mr Winston Churchill:-

" This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, but what it is perhaps, is the end of the beginning "

And for me this is where we are at, the end of the beginning. We must put everything aside/behind us from now on, players who have left Wales can make their own paths, lets make new stars and keep them in Wales and build stronger regions that can make a stronger Wales.

LordDowlais wrote:
And for me this is where we are at, the end of the beginning. We must put everything aside/behind us from now on, players who have left Wales can make their own paths, lets make new stars and keep them in Wales and build stronger regions that can make a stronger Wales.

I'd love to see Gatland's reaction to that.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
And for me this is where we are at, the end of the beginning. We must put everything aside/behind us from now on, players who have left Wales can make their own paths, lets make new stars and keep them in Wales and build stronger regions that can make a stronger Wales.

I'd love to see Gatland's reaction to that.

Gatland himself is kinda in a Beginning of the End or the End of the Beginnning phase himself in Welsh rugby terms.  Given how long he's already been there, I'd reckon it's closer to the Beginning of the End.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
And for me this is where we are at, the end of the beginning. We must put everything aside/behind us from now on, players who have left Wales can make their own paths, lets make new stars and keep them in Wales and build stronger regions that can make a stronger Wales.

I'd love to see Gatland's reaction to that.

Still can't believe (or can I?) he was given a 6 year contract.

To date, how many players are on dual contracts? Is it only Sam W?

Dai, only WRUburton to date, they seem to be taking forever to get the dual contracts up and running.

Fly, I would agree beginning of the end, we just need an Eddie O'Sullivan to stab him n the back.  I can't see Howler or McBryde doing it sadly.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai, only WRUburton to date, they seem to be taking forever to get the dual contracts up and running.

I see. Glaciation moved quicker.

"Commenting on number eight Faletau, wing Amos and uncapped 19-year-old centre Morgan, Dragons director of rugby Jones said: "How dual contracts are going to work I'm not sure."

Is anyone sure then? Thought it had all been sorted.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30105638

It has been sort. But now everyone has to sit around a table and discuss what 'sorted' means.

There is a stalement over Lydiate as well even after the big announcement of him 'returning to Wales'. Looks like he won't have a club after the AIs so does he go back to Racing with tail between legs etc or wait in limbo.

SecretFly wrote:It has been sort.  But now everyone has to sit around a table and discuss what 'sorted' means.

"So, let's just stop gabbing on about it. It's completely pointless and it's getting us nowhere!"

http://www.montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Life_of_Brian/23.htm

It has been announced that Lydiate has been offered a DC and there are another 13 to be offered after the AI.