Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Not had that much fun watching football for a while.

Robben taken the p*1ss out the spanish keeper and central defenders was literally hilarious.

[Davie]

Rooney should follow Gerrard and Lampard and retire .. so the captaincy is wide open. If Jack Wheelchair wasn't so injury prone I'd give it to him

And I don't think anyone pretended Ox was fit - they kept him there in the hope he would come back with impact after the group stages. Strength in depth in that position (even if they didn't actually deliver) - he was a luxury t hey could afford if the rest had gone to plan

[kwinigolfer]

Wheelchair needs to be in the team to be captain, surely?
Hardly one of England's better players on 2013/14 "form". Can't imagine he's properly fit even now. Might just as well have dragged Michael Johnson out of the gutter and sent him.

[Davie]

You're only repeating what I'm saying Kwini - a fit JW would make a great captain for the future. As an Arsenal fan I dread him playing for England and getting hurt again - as an England fan I'd have him in there every time (when fit)

[Diggers]

Rooney was our best player by a country mile against Uruguay, obviously time for him to go, let's get rid of our most creative and productive forward.

[Diggers]

Id have a punt at Wilshire as an England regular, that's what it would be now though, a punt that he fulfils his potential rather than any real certainty. Not as captain through.

[Davie]

Rooney was our best player by a country mile against Uruguay, obviously time for him to go, let's get rid of our most creative and productive forward.

That's opinions for you though Diggers .. certainly far from facts .. you can find opinions online to back up your opinion and mine. I thought Rooney failed to produce again. One goal that was pretty much a tap-in and a couple of gilt-edged chances missed. In my opinion Cahill was the stand out player in that match - but others disagree. I also thought Sterling was good in the game but others have criticized him. All personal opinions.

To my mind, Rooney has had his chances and failed. How many more should he have?

[Diggers]

True enough and I thought Cahill played well as it goes, Jags had a shocker. Rooney for once was fit at a WC and shaking off the rust and looking sharp, I rate Sterling massively but I think he had a shocker but that's totally excusable for a young kid.
Rooney has great movement, plays for the team, is our top scorer ever in competitive matches (and we need to qualify for the Euros), I can't see another English striker anywhere near his class myself, though Sturridge is improving all the time.

[Diggers]

Why Jones at right back in the next game? I hate him in that position, its so negative. I think he has the makings of being a fantastic centre back (unlike Smalling) but never at full back.

[beninho]

Think rooney should play centre forward. When he played their for united a few years back for united he had a great season. Id rather him up top with 3 playing behind him. Sterling is promosing but is mainly built on speed, I have my doubts he will be a top player. The ox I think has class to be a centre midfielder. Wilshire needs a strong uninjured season as its to hard to judge how good he will be. Sturridge is not all that and was awful against Uruguay. Think jones has potential as a centre back not right back and smalling hasnt impressed me in either position.
I dont get the calls for rooney to retire he is only 28!! Just think if we had got rid if all the players and manager after the disaster of euro 88.

[beninho]

Mexico putting the shiits up brazil with 10mins to go.

[kwinigolfer]

Big Rooney fan here . . . . and when Phil Jones played for Blackburn and during his first (pre-injury) few months with Man U thought he could be another Duncan Edwards.
But he's regressed - Ferguson seemed to like him as a holding mid-fielder, sometimes man-to-man marking the opposition dangerman, but he's become almost reckless as a defender, shocking to see how his game has failed to train on.

Also thought Cahill has played well but also thought he could have done better with a couple of the goals. Wonder if Jags was really fit enough for World Cup duty.

Think Sturridge could be a great but agree about Sterling . . . . and Welbeck needs to return to Roker Park (or whatever their place is called now) - he was much better beside the Wear.

[super_realist]

Trouble with Rooney is that his form is like a parabolic wave, he has periods of "European" class form and periods of SPL form, and like almost every England footballer he doesn't turn up at tournaments.
It's harsh to single him out, because no England player has played well in this tournament, so the Rooney witch hunt is a bit harsh when no one has distinguished themselves.

England have a tournament football handicap of about 12.3

[Diggers]

Just because he was young do we have to write off the fact that Rooney was brilliant in his first Euros? It's like that never happened which is somewhat bizarre.

[beninho]

Its easy to bash Rooney because he is high profile and players for Man Utd. No need to look at the facts. He was the promising youngster, though has not turned out to be a world great, as was hoped, he has had a great career, and been a very good player for a very long time. But no, get rid for the current flavour of the month, before they have really proven anything.

[Bob_the_Job]

Id have a punt at Wilshire as an England regular, that's what it would be now though, a punt that he fulfils his potential rather than any real certainty. Not as captain through.

I agree he'll probably be an England regular...

He's surly - check
Overpaid - check
Injury prone - check
Had a couple of brushes with the law - check
Over hyped by the press - check
Pushed into the national squad too young - check
Not actually proven himself much but shown odd flashes- check
Slow - check
Can't tackle without either giving away a free kick or leaving on a stretcher - check

 

[Diggers]

To be fair Bob...he's not that slow. He's deceptively quick as they say.

[Bob_the_Job]

Yeah I know.. I was partially on a wind up..but that said he's nippy rather than outright pacey.

[Diggers]

He needs a full season at Arsenal, hopefully in a successful Gooners side. But you suspect he's only one bad injury away from becoming a what might have been player.

[MustPuttBetter]

I find it fascinating how Rooney divides opinion so much. For me, he’s nothing particularly special. He’s just a good player. Yes he’s scored a lot of goals for England but let’s be honest they’re all in qualifiers and friendlies against sides that on the whole wouldn’t be considered a massive test. I honestly think that any decent Premier League forward who had played up front every game and was picked for every game for 10 years against those opposition would probably have got a similar number of goals.
I think he lacks anywhere near enough pace to be dangerous at the top level. I can’t really see what he gives you. He doesn’t beat anyone by running with the ball or skill or pace. He doesn’t create goals by playing clever through balls. All he really does is gets the ball and moves it on, mostly sideways. Come on, any decent forward could give you that. I could give you that!
He’s too static and slow for me. When the ball comes to him the whole move stops while he gets in under, give it to the full back, runs over to 2 yards away from the full back so he can get it back and then give it to the other full back etc etc. All they while we’re wondering why we can’t build an attack with our centre forward in our half trying to get a touch.........

I think he should count his luck stars that he matured so early. He basically was already the player he was going to be, and still is, at 16 or 17. He got a lot of attention because of the level he was at at such a young age, which was incredible, and got a big move to United on the back of it. Obviously you’re thinking ‘if he’s this good now in 5 years.........’. But he’s basically still the same player, he just matured early. If he had been a bit more ‘normal’ and made it into Everton’s 1st team at say 22 with that same level of ability I don’t think he would have been particularly big news and would now just be one of a bunch of decent Premier League forwards.

[beninho]

Reading on the Beeb site, it seems that so many England fans, are declaring a lack of Passion in the team. What a load of nonsense. The english players have not lacked passion, its just that the other teams have been better. Some England fans are idiots.

Though reading the above post, i can see that England have gone wrong in not selecting Mr MustPuttBetter, as you are as good as Rooney!

[navyblueshorts]

Tend to agree with you MPB.

"Passion"? What on Earth do those 'fans' mean by "passion"?? Run around like headless chickens??? Empty vessels and all that I think. Meaningless.

[navyblueshorts]

You have got to be joking???? Coulson the only guilty one and Brooks somehow innocent??? And the others? Sorry, beggars belief given what's been publicised during the trial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27997688

[MustPuttBetter]

Though reading the above post, i can see that England have gone wrong in not selecting Mr MustPuttBetter, as you are as good as Rooney!

Don't be sad Mr Beninho, you probably are too

[Diggers]

Cant agree MPB re Rooney, he doesn't play even remotely the same game he played when he was a kid, he is way better now. His movement is fantastic, he gets into great positions, he does run at players, watch the Uruguay game and you'll see him beating players to set up attacks. He's got plenty of pace because he knows how to use it, he's an excellent finisher and he has stacks of assists, right up there with the most in Premiership history. He's a fantastic all round forward IMO. But hey, its only football.

[Diggers]

You have got to be joking???? Coulson the only guilty one and Brooks somehow innocent??? And the others? Sorry, beggars belief given what's been publicised during the trial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27997688

I fond this an utter farce, no way, absolutely no way, can Brooks have been in the dark. I blame Fat Dave.....

[kwinigolfer]

Agree on both posts Digs,
Rooney would be the first name on the team sheet when/if the FA appoint me to replace Woy; don't really know why he's so disliked, but if England's other 10+ players tried half as much as Rooney, and achieved half as much, they wouldn't now be going home.

[Bob_the_Job]

The England football team visited a Brazilian orphanage this morning. 'It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope' said Jose, age 6.

I'll get my coat...

[super_realist]

The England football team visited a Brazilian orphanage this morning. 'It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope' said Jose, age 6.

I'll get my coat...

Good joke, and what's more amusing is we get to hear it every 2 years.

[MustPuttBetter]

Sorry Digs but I genuinely disagree with most of that. I don't recalling him beating anyone v Uruguay having watched the game twice. He has no pace and I definitely do not think he's a better player now, if anything he's declined as has lost that bit of youthful pace and drive.

Yes he is a good finisher, but then so are a lot of players. I did say he's a good player but I think no more. I'd have him in the squad but not a shoe in to start and def not the 'star player'.

Just my opinion, I did say it's interesting how it's so split on Rooney.

[SmithersJones]

My memory is poor but I recall 2 or 3 tournaments ago England had to do without Rooney for the second half of the qualifying period, having started poorly. They suddenly played with more unity and purpose and won something like 3 or 4 games 3-1. The crucial, deciding game was away in Russia and Rooney returned. We lost and I seem to remember failed to qualify. I've always felt that was indicative of our philosophy and why we do poorly. We expect too much of individuals and don't focus enough on playing as a team.

[super_realist]

I remember David Healy scoring a ton of goals for the Northern Oirish. Didn't make him a top class player though.

England have always struck me as a team who pick on who is most famous, who plays for the fashionable teams and who is currently flavour of the media month but not necessarily who is the best for that position.

There are many countries who do "as well" or far better than England on more spartan resources and certainly "less talented" players.

[beninho]

It was Euro 2008 qualifying. Rooney had missed a couple of games which we won, but he was back for the game before Russia and scored, he also scored against Russia in the game we lost. He then missed the deciding game against Croatia, which we lost at home. I really do not think he can take any blame for not qualifying, i think most of the blame went on Scott Carson.

[Diggers]

Sorry Digs but I genuinely disagree with most of that. I don't recalling him beating anyone v Uruguay having watched the game twice. He has no pace and I definitely do not think he's a better player now, if anything he's declined as has lost that bit of youthful pace and drive.

Yes he is a good finisher, but then so are a lot of players. I did say he's a good player but I think no more. I'd have him in the squad but not a shoe in to start and def not the 'star player'.

Just my opinion, I did say it's interesting how it's so split on Rooney.

I'm not sure what he's meant to achieve really. He's guaranteed to finish his career at least second in all time Premiership scorers, possibly first, despite not playing that regularly as the main striker. He will finish his career with the most assists in the Premiership. Anyone he has played with tells you how hard he works for the team, how much defensive work he puts in.
I doubt he has lost any pace at all, Man Utd would not have signed him on such a big contract without looking at all the stats available, they will know exactly how fast he is and whether his pace is in decline. He always puts a big shift in.
I don't see an English forward in the past 10 years who could have come close to doing what Rooney has. He is even the player who actually gave us huge hope at a tournament, scored 4 goals and who knows what might have been if he hadn't got crocked. Of course we aren't allowed to remember that and have to say he has always failed...even though in reality he is the one England player in 20 years to take a tournament by the scruff of the neck.

[Diggers]

I remember David Healy scoring a ton of goals for the Northern Oirish. Didn't make him a top class player though.

England have always struck me as a team who pick on who is most famous, who plays for the fashionable teams and who is currently flavour of the media month but not necessarily who is the best for that position.

There are many countries who do "as well" or far better than England on more spartan resources and certainly "less talented" players.

Name me a single country that doesn't pick its big name players who play for the bigger clubs? There isn't one. Do you think Belgium should ignore all their players who are at big clubs now, the so called stars? Of course not...because they are the best players available to choose.
Bar the odd selection most England sides that start a big tournament are the sides the fans would pick, with a few debates on a couple of players. But by and large everyone picks the same sides. Most people were happy with Roy's side, give or take the odd position.
If you think suddenly picking half the Hull side would turn us into world beaters you are crazy.

[MustPuttBetter]

Stats are great but they don't prove he's a cracking player rather than just a good one. They're swayed by the fact that he's been at the most successful club in the league and the entire of his career has been in the premier league era.
If he played for Villa would he have scored as many goals? Certainly not. Would he therefore be a worse player? No of course not.
He's currently 4th on the PL goals list. Andy Cole is 2nd. He couldn't get in the England side ahead of Sheringham mostly who is all of 61 goals behind. Does that prove Cole should have played for England more? No, it's just stats.
Les Ferdinand and Robbie Fowler are also in the top 10 but didn't play much for England.

The other bits about giving us hope etc is just opinion. He didn't give me hope.  I also haven't said you're not allowed to remember anything.

[super_realist]

I remember David Healy scoring a ton of goals for the Northern Oirish. Didn't make him a top class player though.

England have always struck me as a team who pick on who is most famous, who plays for the fashionable teams and who is currently flavour of the media month but not necessarily who is the best for that position.

There are many countries who do "as well" or far better than England on more spartan resources and certainly "less talented" players.

Name me a single country that doesn't pick its big name players who play for the bigger clubs? There isn't one. Do you think Belgium should ignore all their players who are at big clubs now, the so called stars? Of course not...because they are the best players available to choose.
Bar the odd selection most England sides that start a big tournament are the sides the fans would pick, with a few debates on a couple of players. But by and large everyone picks the same sides. Most people were happy with Roy's side, give or take the odd position.
If you think suddenly picking half the Hull side would turn us into world beaters you are crazy.

Diggers, I'm simply saying that picking your most famous, media darling, high profile player doesn't always make the best "team"
So picking a collection of individuals (Gerrard and Lampard) being an example, throwing them together and expecting them to produce a result isn't always the best practice. Having the 11 best players on paper, doesn't make them the 11 best compatible players

Think of the top class players who didn't play as much as you think they might have done , Ginola, Cantona, Le Tissier, Di Canio, Ian Wright, even the likes of Peter Crouch, who has an excellent Goal ratio only got 42 caps, in a period where England were Striker shy.

Being the "best players at the best clubs" doesn't translate to being the best players in an international set up.
I'm not saying "don't pick your "best" players" but more to question, do they actually fit into the team and the way you want the team to play.

Kind of like 9C in the Ryder Cup, one of the worlds greatest ever golfers, but doesn't fit in well and doesn't play well in that format. Might be an idea NOT to pick the most famous, media darling, greatest golfer on the basis it doesn't work.

[MustPuttBetter]

And Rooney is evidently 142 assists behind Giggs! So I'm not sure about that stat Digs

[Diggers]

Thought he was 40 assists behind Giggs but I could be wrong. Stats dont tell you everything but they do tell you a huge amount.
Plenty of good players have gone to big clubs and struggled, he has gone to a big club and consistently performed, very rarely been dropped.
If he never gave you hope in 2004 as a teenager then I've no idea what it would take to impress you really.
Super..I don't even think you watch the games mate so Im hereby ignoring your footie comments.

[MustPuttBetter]

They tell you he's a consistently good player at a consistently good side. I don't doubt that and I don't have a problem with you thinking of him highly as you and many others do.
After the stats you have to look a little deeper and make our own judgement just like England managers did with Andy Cole. All the stats in the world tell you that Cole should have played a tonne of games for England and would have scored plenty. But he didn't and didn't.
With Rooney I just don't think he produces enough at the top international level and I think a lack of pace has a lot to do with why. I've said this before this World Cup as well

[MustPuttBetter]

Oh and re the hope thing I thought you were referring to 2014. He didn't fill me with hope going into this

[Diggers]

Yes but all the stats show that Rooney has scored plenty and has scored plenty and made plenty for England.
Look at his assist this World Cup. A fast break down the wing. Look at his goal, a sweeping move from the half way line that he got on the end of...a goal all about pace and more importantly movement.
Also just checked, 42 assists behind Giggs.

[MustPuttBetter]

Plenty for England against fairly average opposition on the whole in truth. Yeah you can pick out one or two moments but I could do that with Paulo Wanchope. On the whole I think most agree that he's been poor for England against decent opposition and at tournaments. I can't see that that's deniable really.

And fair enough re the assists. I didn't know he was that close to be honest and checked some site (premiersoccerstats.com) which said Giggs had 284 assists. Obviously Love sacks!

[Diggers]

Equally he has been far from fit at quite a few tournaments, perhaps then the manager shouldn't have picked him.
I will say he is always slow to recover from lay offs and needs a lot of games to be really sharp.
At the end of the day if you could take just a good player and put him at the right club and expect him to break records for goals and assists then management must be pretty bloody easy.
Anyway, we will no doubt agree to differ. Stupid game anyway. Crickets much better and we are good at that...hmm

[MustPuttBetter]

I know nothing about cricket so you win!

[Diggers]

A draw in the cricket would make me far happier than the draw on the football.
Suarez chomping again? What an unpleasant individual he is.

[kwinigolfer]

If Suarez wanted to get out of Anfield he's done just the right thing - John Henry and the Fenway people won't have that. They might have to cut the selling price but Suarez is a goner.
Hope he's banned from International Football for life - ideally FIFA would order a replay, but that won't happen.

[Diggers]

Is the guy who got the winner the one who should have walked in the England game?

[kwinigolfer]

Correct. Godin.

[super_realist]

On the pre match pictures of the players, how pathetic on a scale of 10 to 10 is the players turning to the camera and folding their arms?

[beninho]

In a scale of 1-10. Probably about a 0. Its not pathetic at all. Its just what sports shows tend to do. Similar happens in cricket and rugby I believe.

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