Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Not had that much fun watching football for a while.

Robben taken the p*1ss out the spanish keeper and central defenders was literally hilarious.

[GunsGerms]

I think the BBC should pull out all the stops and go with Beckham and Beardsley as the pundit dream team. What a double act they would make... articulate, wit, insight, beauty

Gazza, Bentley, Vinnie Jones, Bullard and Roy Keane would be my deam team.

Gazza, would be the presenter and the rest pundits.

[pedro]

I always thought Hargreaves spoke well. Surprised no one signed him up. A cut above your average footballers intelligence.

Maybe that's why he played in Germany.

[Davie]

Darren Gough is awful on the radio (IMO) and I wouldn't p!ss on Collymore if he was on fire. Thinks himself WAY more important and informed than he actually is, and is so bloody holier than thou it's untrue!

[navyblueshorts]

The radio has all the better ones.

Ah yes. Well radio requires the commentator to paint a picture with words when the viewer can't see what's happening. Can't see the average ex-Premiership footballer being up there for that really.

Considering the most popular radio pundits are Savage, Collymore and Darren Gough I can't really see that being the case. People aren't tuning in expecting TMS and chat about cake, they want banter. Talk Sport is doing incredibly well at a time when you'd imagine that Radio was a dying medium. All based on banter really.

That tells us a lot. I don't want banter all the time (the odd bit's OK). Then again, I don't listen to talkSPORT either. Savage I actually think gets a hard time when he's a lot better as a commentator/pundit than almost all of the players who 'made it'. Collymore had some issues but he's patently a bright enough guy. Not so sure about Gough though.
I guess it's a balance at the end of the day (to use a well-worn football cliché). I seriously dislike the idea that, simply because someone played a sport at the top level, they therefore must be good to have as a TV/radio pundit. Most of that sort of ex-player are terrible.
One of the major issues I have, particularly with the current football 'experts', is that they're too close and have too many loyalties to players they competed against/with. Exceptions seem to be Savage and, surprisingly to me at least, Gary Neville, who annoyed the Hell out of me when he was playing but seems to be knowledgeable, a decent communicator and very honest.
Anyway, one persons brilliant pundit is someone else's hate figure.

[Diggers]

The radio has all the better ones.

Ah yes. Well radio requires the commentator to paint a picture with words when the viewer can't see what's happening. Can't see the average ex-Premiership footballer being up there for that really.

Considering the most popular radio pundits are Savage, Collymore and Darren Gough I can't really see that being the case. People aren't tuning in expecting TMS and chat about cake, they want banter. Talk Sport is doing incredibly well at a time when you'd imagine that Radio was a dying medium. All based on banter really.

That tells us a lot. I don't want banter all the time (the odd bit's OK). Then again, I don't listen to talkSPORT either. Savage I actually think gets a hard time when he's a lot better as a commentator/pundit than almost all of the players who 'made it'. Collymore had some issues but he's patently a bright enough guy. Not so sure about Gough though.
I guess it's a balance at the end of the day (to use a well-worn football cliché). I seriously dislike the idea that, simply because someone played a sport at the top level, they therefore must be good to have as a TV/radio pundit. Most of that sort of ex-player are terrible.
One of the major issues I have, particularly with the current football 'experts', is that they're too close and have too many loyalties to players they competed against/with. Exceptions seem to be Savage and, surprisingly to me at least, Gary Neville, who annoyed the Hell out of me when he was playing but seems to be knowledgeable, a decent communicator and very honest.
Anyway, one persons brilliant pundit is someone else's hate figure.

I don't disagree with much of that. One the other side I do feel that sometimes people thing ex footballers should instantly be great in front of the camera otherwise they are rubbish. It takes time to become decent, Gary Neville has improved massively since he started on Sky, he was awful at first. Phil Neville was a completely different person on the panel to the nervous guy commentating on the England game.
I think if you are talking about talking heads then they should basically be ex players/managers with possibly a journalist thrown in as well. You aren't really going to have a panel of broadcasters sitting discussing the game at half time. On live commentary you have a professional broadcaster and a player which seems fair enough to me.
I think the BBC has got it just about right, ITV use the same formula and its pretty awful, so I guess its all about the people you prefer. But lets face it possibly the most hated man in football right now is Adrian Childs so its not just players who can be bad...and once upon a time Adrian was quite a decent presenter.

[kwinigolfer]

Absolutely brill from Cahill . . . . . .

[I'm never wrong]

Suarez has been waxing brazilian

Been to the beauty salon?

[Diggers]

Come on Chile! What a world cup this is turning out to be. Forgot about Danny Murphy, definitely one of the better commentators.

[kwinigolfer]

Murphy certainly comes across as the most objective among the comments that I see Digs.

Rudderless stuff from Espana so far.

[Diggers]

What is this punching from the keepers about. Tiki taki crappy so far, just shows it's not the system, it's the players.
Always thought Spain's issues were the strikers, time for them to prove me wrong.

[kwinigolfer]

Spain's issue looks to be age right now. No inspiration left.
Weakness from goalie Casillas to striker Costa. Tired.

If Chile play with the same energy in their remaining games they'll be a threat to beat anyone.

[Diggers]

Agreed Kwini, everyone and everything gets old.
And Chile are good as you say, Id fancy then to beat Brazil if they do meet them, certainly be tight.

[kwinigolfer]

A couple of exciting games so far today though.
Fingers crossed the England game won't be a thriller, going out early to a five goal first-half lead, Rooney grabbing all five.

[pedro]

Ok, they tried Diego Costa and failed, but one thing I dont get is why they keep playing Torres. He's 5 years overdue. Then rather Fabregas.

Ramos and Iniesta did well, but I think players like Casillas, Alonso, and Torres must go.

[Diggers]

I thought Iniesta was awful tonight.

[pedro]

I also talk about attitude. I still think Iniesta has the right attitude and fights well. No one doubts the qualities of Alonso and Casillas (albeit the latter has had his share of blunders lately) but I think they lack in attitude - not good being captain and vice captain.

[raycastleunited]

Incredible that Spain are out, I know most of the team are getting on a bit but still quality (apart from up front).

I wonder how much drunken hooliganism and rioting we will see from Spanish fans angry at their early exit...

[pedro]

Juan Carlos also abdicated today. Ironic.

[Diggers]

You think Pedro, I thought Iniesta was head down all night. A few nice touches but that was it. They just had a shocker all round really, still nice to have a change of the guard.
I've no idea who wins this thing.

[Roller_Coaster]

I think Spain were build on confidence to a large extent. Small puncture last year (beaten by Brazil in Brazil) then boom this year, Holland demolition. Knowing they were now (very) fallable, Chile went in there and made the most of it.

That said, Costa and Torres have both been both poor (Costa through recent injury I guess) so never going to tear a defence apart. Other than that, the whole team just looked sluggish and uninterested as a unit.

Deserved losers both times, no-one to blame but themselves.

[raycastleunited]

Roller - agree with everything you say apart from the first sentence. They are technically so strong that you can't say they are built on confidence.

[raycastleunited]

Spanish press made the link with Juan Carlos... sports daily AS lead with "they abdicate" with full page picture of dejected players. Bizarrely, front page of Catalan Sport newspaper decided to dedicate its front page to Barcelona signing a new keeper.

[Diggers]

Xavi made the side tick and he's over the hill now. No tiki taki without Xavi.

[super_realist]

Home before the postcards. England.

[beninho]

Terrible. Same old England. players not good enough. No one comfortable on the ball. Sterling looked like the young boy he was. Sturridge was awful. What's the point in welbeck. Goodbye Gerrard. No centre midfield at all. I though do not blame the manager. It though will not get any better.

[super_realist]

Just watching the post-mortem and amused to see virtually every advert in the break feature a cameo from England players. Do they really need the money? Shouldn't they just concentrate on actually being able to play the game? I mean, judging by their results, they are hardly bringing any success to their endorsements to which people can make an association.
Hart is the biggest tart of all. He's in tons of them.

Sterling looks like Rory Breaker out of Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

[pedro]

Did you see Suarez crying like a schoolboy when being interviewed after the match? IMO Hodgson should be the one crying. Farewelbeck.

[gaelgowfer]

Well, seems to me chaps that England will never again seriously feature in a World Cup until the number of foreign players playing in English league football is greatly reduced.  Home grown talent too thinly spread.  

Pleased that Rooney scored though.

[Davie]

Funny how opinions differ ever though we all agree England were awful. Just seen some player ratings on Sky Sports and agree with hardly any of them.

To me only Cahill and Sterling had decent games (though Beninho seems to disagree on Sterling). Rooney, Gerrard, Welbeck and Johnson were dreadful, Sturridge, Baines and Jagielka not much better. And apparently I've just been reminded that Henderson started though I don't recall him one bit

[raycastleunited]

Terrible. Same old England. players not good enough. No one comfortable on the ball. Sterling looked like the young boy he was. Sturridge was awful. What's the point in welbeck. Goodbye Gerrard. No centre midfield at all. I though do not blame the manager. It though will not get any better.

I don't think this was a case of same old England. In recent tournaments we have had decent players who just seemed to freeze and under perform, and over the last 20 odd years we've nearly always had a good back 4. This time we just haven't got the quality, the players aren't clinical enough for this level.

Baines offered nothing, Still don't understand why Ashley Cole wasn't playing. Johnson was much better tonight but awful against Italy. Cahill did ok but Jagielka was out of his depth, Henderson anonymous. The youngsters up front aren't ready to all play together.

[SmithersJones]

Where does this idea that we have to respect people's beliefs come from? It seems utterly ridiculous to me. And before anyone assumes I'm on some kind of S_R religious kick, this was what prompted the question - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27907358




Although S_R is right!

[Shotrock]

Us Yanks will enjoy this World Cup Soccer Tournament --- at least until Sunday!

[gaelgowfer]

Anyone else think it's time the west started to deploy a propaganda machine of its own?  

For example, just what do the jihadists do with their own injured?

[Davie]

Pretty naive to think we don't already have our own propaganda machine   

[kwinigolfer]

BBC headline:
"No World Cup Strategy Regrets - Hodgson"
Don't you think they got the punctuation wrong there? Surely it should have read:
"No World Cup Strategy" - regrets Hodgson.

Not good enough all the way through the team - we can all pick who we thought played poorly and who played even worse, but it seemed Hodgson made his mind up on the back five (six if Gerrard is included) and made the rest up as he went along. Couldn't understand starting both Sterling and Welbeck against Italy, even less against Uruguay. Didn't think much of Barkley (looked as lost as Sterling & Welbeck) when he came on, but thought Lallana should have been given 180 minutes instead of, what?, 40??

Hodgson must go!

[gaelgowfer]

kwini ... I still think the real question remains as to whether or not England can produce a big enough pool of home grown players who can compete at world class level.  

Scotland's chances of ever qualifying for a World Cup again went right down the drain when its clubs started to employ foreign players.

Just been watching highlights of The Amateur at Royal Portrush.  The course looked absolutely stunning.

[kwinigolfer]

gael,
That's doubtless part of the problem but surely England plays too many "luxury' players who might be gifted going forward but are either hopeless with defensive duties or even just tracking back, or don't have complementary protectors covering them.

Eddie Gray, for instance, would have been half the player if he didn't have Bremner to win the ball and get in the faces of any and all oposition.

I think Sturridge upfront with Rooney behind him is OK, but Johnson & Baines are better going forward than in defence, and woebetide anyone dumb enough to think Sterling or Welbeck offer any protection.

No balance and, on recent evidence anyway, no World-Class players, at least not in the positions Woy plays them.

[I'm never wrong]

Before Argentina scored, Iran - as many other teams do - took their time with substitutions. If a player takes too long in going off, can he be booked? Then, if he has already been booked for another offence previously, is he sent off, and cannot be substituted?

[pedro]

Before Argentina scored, Iran - as many other teams do - took their time with substitutions. If a player takes too long in going off, can he be booked? Then, if he has already been booked for another offence previously, is he sent off, and cannot be substituted?

Yes and yes. Di Maria should have been booked when being substituted. That was pathetic and a disgrace. If he was already booked it would have meant a red card.
Also think Iran should have been awarded a penalty. Even Stevie Wonder saw what happended. I feel sorry for the Iranians, they should have won or at least drawn.

[I'm never wrong]

Thanks Pedro. I am a bit of a dinosaur regarding players time wasting, not retreating 10 yards, arguing with the ref etc. If I was a ref I expect I would have to abandon every match due to me handing out so many cards, there wouldn't be enough players on the pitch.

[raycastleunited]

kwini ... I still think the real question remains as to whether or not England can produce a big enough pool of home grown players who can compete at world class level.  

Scotland's chances of ever qualifying for a World Cup again went right down the drain when its clubs started to employ foreign players.

This is just small minded xenophobic rubbish. Pathetic.

Leagues in Spain, Italy and the Netherlands are full of "pesky foreigners" but those countries seem to have done alright in recent tournaments. Inter clearly the most successful club in Italy over last 10 years but has almost no Italians in the team, but somehow doesn't harm the national team too much.

[Davie]

Yes ray that is just a poor excuse for a poor team. Look at the sizes and population of Uruguay and Costa Rica .. OK they may not many many (any?) furriners playing for them .. but the population base they have to select from is still smaller than the diluted numbers in the PL and Championship .. comparable to Scotland perhaps...

[kwinigolfer]

One thing is for sue: Scotland are slowly improving, England are steadily deteriorating!
So long as England continue to be obsessed with "speed" in preference to organization and just getting the basics right, England will fall further beind the ROTW.

[Diggers]

Think there's a fair bit of over reaction on here to England. Two very narrow losses in a WC where pretty much everyone looks capable of beating everyone.
Biggest issue for me was team looked like it hadn't played together much say in conparison to settled units like Chile and Uruguay and Costa Rica or indeed Germany. Roy maybe changed his strategy too late to bed it in.
But bar centre backs I think he have good talent and am still positive about the next Euros.
Think Walcott was a big loss. We could have started a more balanced front 4 with him in the side.

[raycastleunited]

I think the biggest problem with the England team in this tournament was a lack of nous. That experience which enables you to anticipate situations and an awareness of what is needed to just get the job done, even if you're not playing your best. That's why I would have had Ashley Cole in my starting XI.

I don't think the World Cup finals is the right place to blood a new batch of youngsters. Introduce them after the World Cup and then they have two years to develop as a unit ready for the next tournament.

We also didn't have enough players prepared to track back. Every team has one player who doesn't defend, we had four. No point filling you team with attacking flair if you're not going to have the ball.

I don't blame the players. I think Roy took a couple of huge gambles and got it horribly wrong. Hopefully he will learn from his mistakes.

[gaelgowfer]

gael,
That's doubtless part of the problem but surely England plays too many "luxury' players who might be gifted going forward but are either hopeless with defensive duties or even just tracking back, or don't have complementary protectors covering them.

Eddie Gray, for instance, would have been half the player if he didn't have Bremner to win the ball and get in the faces of any and all oposition.

I think Sturridge upfront with Rooney behind him is OK, but Johnson & Baines are better going forward than in defence, and woebetide anyone dumb enough to think Sterling or Welbeck offer any protection.

No balance and, on recent evidence anyway, no World-Class players, at least not in the positions Woy plays them.

kwini, when you read some of the comments on here, "paralysis by analysis" springs to mind.  The simple truth is, that England's downfall began with the increase of foreign players to the English Premier League.  Example:  Manchester City won this year's league with just two regular English players in its squad.  A truly shocking statistic.  Unfortunately, due to the various sponsorship, tv contracts etc, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon.  So ... anyone for resurrecting Scotland v England?  The way things are going in England-shire, should be a close match!

[gaelgowfer]

Anyway, what about Michelle Wie then?  Wow!  When Yang caught her yesterday, I thought Wie would be toast today.  Far from over yet but (and, in spite of her parents!) I hope she holds her nerve to bank her first major.

I might even have an ice cream to celebrate!

[gaelgowfer]

Great final round from Catriona (66) and Northern Ireland's Stephanie Meadow's currently on joint third.

[Diggers]

Fair play to Wie. She's certainly taken sone grief over the years, plenty on these boards for sure. Can see her winning a few more majors now.

[kwinigolfer]

Can't stand Wie; good for her for winning, but she'll be in for a Tiger-like dickotomy if she doesn't straighten up her putting stance.
Wonderful result for Stephanie Meadow, best for Norn Ireland, this week at least.

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