Wimbledon Day 5

First topic message reminder :

Centre Court

Novak Djokovic (SRB) [1] v Gilles Simon (FRA)
Petra Kvitova (CZE) [6] v Venus Williams (USA) [30]
Andy Murray (GBR) [3] v Roberto Bautista Agut (ESP) [27]

No.1 Court

Barbora Zahlavova Strycova (CZE) v Na Li (CHN) [2]
Grigor Dimitrov (BUL) [11] v Alexandr Dolgopolov (UKR) [21]
Marin Cilic (CRO) [26] v Tomas Berdych (CZE) [6]

No.2 Court
11:30am

Simona Halep (ROU) [3] v Lesia Tsurenko (UKR)
Jerzy Janowicz (POL) [15] 7-5 4-4 Lleyton Hewitt (AUS) To Finish
Michelle Larcher De Brito (POR) v Agnieszka Radwanska (POL) [4]
Jamie Murray (GBR) [14]
John Peers (AUS) [14]
v
Jamie Delgado (GBR)
Gilles Muller (LUX)

Come on Andy!

kneel_before_nadal wrote:

DirectView2 wrote:

kneel_before_nadal wrote:^ Beating Tsonga followed by Cilic/Berdych would be no problem for Nadal, because Nadal is the world #1.

But he is not the no.1 seed, I am talking about the no.1 seed, check it out clearly bro.

Whether you like it or not The Joker is the no.1 seed.   

That's my point. The number #1 seed is weak. The number #1 ranked player is strong. It shows how Wimbledon got it wrong when they relied on the grass formula.

Haha I love how you only report the facts.

You must misunderstand the difference between opinion and fact.

laverfan wrote:Croatia fans are happy to see Cilic have a 2-set lead over Berdych.

Not just Croatians fans, I would say tennis fans in general, Cilic is a huge huge talent but a mental midget, if he is on he could play one hell of an aggressive tennis, yes he lacks plans B, but if his A-game is on he can trouble anybody on his day.

Speak for yourself DV, I prefer the style-challenged Czech over the Cilic any day.

kingraf wrote:Speak for yourself DV,  I prefer the style-challenged Czech over the Cilic any day.

Actually it applies to you I guess, you love boring Rafa style of play and now citing Berdych as stylish, certainly you have an awkward taste.   

Cilic any day over Rafa/Berdych.

Yeah sorry, how I could I not find Mr. "It's My Mother's Fault I Can't Read That This Is An Illegal Substance" an irresistible force of nature.

kingraf wrote:Yeah sorry, how I could I not find Mr. "It's My Mother's Fault I Can't Read That This Is An Illegal Substance" an irresistible force of nature.

Oh dear. Did a Nadal fan just use the PED stick to bash another player?

You need to be careful with that one.

http://www1.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/9299819/atp-madrid-open-fabio-fognini-clashes-with-umpire-in-loss-to-alexandr-dolgopolov

Despite the conduct I can't help but love Fognini. The video is funny.

One player tested positive... he's name isn't Nadal... I challenge you to prove me otherwise. If you can't get back in your box, and preferably stay there. No time for unfounded allegations

Cilic is slowly faltering.

When do the W organizers suspend play?

Lucky break for Cilic. Can he close it out now?

9:15 normally. Unless of course the players do what Tsonga/Querrey did and request to play on an extra 15 minutes.

Good recovery from Berdych.

Come on Cilic, dump him like a nasty cheap czech lager.

legendkillarV2 wrote:9:15 normally. Unless of course the players do what Tsonga/Querrey did and request to play on an extra 15 minutes.

Cilic would need to hang or try to finish it in a TB perhaps.

Pretty sure they will ask to complete this set (makes sense for them both).

126mph, wow!

0-30 (DF)

Break Cilic breakkkk

Praying Croatian fans. Second serve. Too soft a mid-court ball for Berdych to hit.

Cilic is wasting chances galore.

hahaha what a crazy game

Quite right, Jahu. Berdych is doing his best to lose the match.

Berdy b1tching around. Cilic to server for TB

Tb Tb Tb

Berdych has fought so hard this set. Return and Charge. Cilic is tired, too. TB.

Will go out on a limb here but if Berdy takes this set I think he will turn this around tomorrow.

For once do something that is normal, says Berdy to umpire.

Come on Cilic, shut his gob.

It looks dark, even on TV. Play should have been stopped before the TB.

Cilic wins. What a war. Super power play. Only 3 sets but great fight.

Cilic wins and the No.6 seed Berdych crashes out.

Cilic wins, but feel a bit sad for Berdych not getting at least a set.

Apart from the BP conversion, Cilic has good stats all round.

The Special Juan wrote:It looks dark, even on TV.  Play should have been stopped before the TB.

Berdych did ask Dumusois before the TB.

laverfan wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:It looks dark, even on TV.  Play should have been stopped before the TB.

Berdych did ask Dumusois before the TB.

He can certainly feel hard done by then.

DirectView2 wrote:

kneel_before_nadal wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

DirectView2 wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:I haven't seen much of the other side of the draw but Andy is playing the best tennis in this half by some distance. Really looking good, a pleasure to watch.

Thats is the problem he will beat Novak the clueless in grass and go onto lose in the finals against Rafa.

I see where you are coming from. Murray's problem against Nadal is his gameplan. Passiveness won't beat Rafa - he needs to get his heavy groundshots away first which he never does V Rafa which frustrates the hell out of me.

I agree. Murray needs to watch his 2010 AO QF, because that was the right way to play Nadal.

The worst part is Murray's mindset against Rafa, he needs to learn from Djoko that to be a no.1 ranked player you should play your opponent without fear and that includes Rafa.

For some reason he always leave his heavy groundies at home when he plays Rafa and play a hide and seek match with him, eventually Rafa will find him out and kill him.   

In fairness the last time Murray and Nadal met away from clay, Andy gave him a third set bagel. Yes, he has an inferiority complex against Nadal on clay -but so does the GOAT

Also anyone thinking that their last meeting in 2011 (when Murray had a golden chance to go a set and a break up) has any baring now, when you look at their respective careers on grass since is living in cloud cuckoo land

Murray's got a confident air at Wimby simply because he's improved literally every year and believes he's unbeatable - his swagger is unbelievable and reminds me of all the greats on grass at their pomp

But they didn't have to face the mentally toughest player who ever lived and so it is correct to assume that if they meet in the final, they start even - despite their grass records since 2011

banbrotam wrote:and believes he's unbeatable

The odds are he will find himself surprised come next Sunday.

He is one of the favorites, but I would have Nole above him and Rafa neck-and-neck; and if they meet in the final I would give the odds to Rafa (though I would be hoping to be wrong).  I am hoping Andy will get to play Dimi - I wonder how Dimi's game measures up against him.

summerblues wrote: I am hoping Andy will get to play Dimi - I wonder how Dimi's game measures up against him.

At 4-4 vs Dolgo in the fourth set, due to Dolgo errors, he got back in the match, and Dolgo played a terrible fifth set. Dimi has no such luxury with Murray on the other side of the net.

djlovesyou wrote:

kingraf wrote:Yeah sorry, how I could I not find Mr. "It's My Mother's Fault I Can't Read That This Is An Illegal Substance" an irresistible force of nature.

Oh dear. Did a Nadal fan just use the PED stick to bash another player?

You need to be careful with that one.

+1

I agree KR's line was so funny , can't believe a Nadal fan could talk about banned substance , yes nothing proved against Nadal but believe me 99/100 people/fans always had doubt and will have doubt of Nadal's fitness, I don't question Nadal that doesn't mean I never doubted him, we need to wait for his post career auto biography.

banbrotam wrote:

DirectView2 wrote:

kneel_before_nadal wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

DirectView2 wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:I haven't seen much of the other side of the draw but Andy is playing the best tennis in this half by some distance. Really looking good, a pleasure to watch.

Thats is the problem he will beat Novak the clueless in grass and go onto lose in the finals against Rafa.

I see where you are coming from. Murray's problem against Nadal is his gameplan. Passiveness won't beat Rafa - he needs to get his heavy groundshots away first which he never does V Rafa which frustrates the hell out of me.

I agree. Murray needs to watch his 2010 AO QF, because that was the right way to play Nadal.

The worst part is Murray's mindset against Rafa, he needs to learn from Djoko that to be a no.1 ranked player you should play your opponent without fear and that includes Rafa.

For some reason he always leave his heavy groundies at home when he plays Rafa and play a hide and seek match with him, eventually Rafa will find him out and kill him.   

In fairness the last time Murray and Nadal met away from clay, Andy gave him a third set bagel. Yes, he has an inferiority complex against Nadal on clay -but so does the GOAT

Also anyone thinking that their last meeting in 2011 (when Murray had a golden chance to go a set and a break up) has any baring now, when you look at their respective careers on grass since is living in cloud cuckoo land

Murray's got a confident air at Wimby simply because he's improved literally every year and believes he's unbeatable - his swagger is unbelievable and reminds me of all the greats on grass at their pomp

But they didn't have to face the mentally toughest player who ever lived and so it is correct to assume that if they meet in the final, they start even - despite their grass records since 2011

I agree with both views, its slowly turning into a 2 horse race, Rafa vs Murray finals very likely. Cilic could easily take Nole down if he could play this level at grass against him. Eventhough Cilic in past has beaten Murray in a GS in grass Murray would be just too much for him.

Last but not least I doubt Nole will get past Tsonga, for all Tsonga's tiredness he is getting mentally strong which is actually his main weakness, the long matches in my view would help him versus Nole.

Cilic in my view is more talented than Del Potro, but he doesn't even have half of Del Po's balls to fight a match, if Cilic got Del Po's steel heart he could have been a grand slam champ.

summerblues wrote:He is one of the favorites, but I would have Nole above him and Rafa neck-and-neck; and if they meet in the final I would give the odds to Rafa (though I would be hoping to be wrong).

Wow, SB, you surprise me with that. I think Novak would have to produce his absolute top level A-game to have a decent chance of beating Murray on grass.

And Novak doesn't seem to be particularly near his absolute top level A-game so far.

Murray, by contrast, is looking great. Not just good tennis but a real swagger in his attitude and demeanour too.

New coach showing andy some black art magic.

It's the movement.

In the same way he loses a few percentage points from his 'base level' on clay, he goes up a level when he plays on grass.

Sure, thought home turf and crowd helps too.


Also Lendl has disciplined him nicely to not self destruct.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:

kingraf wrote:Yeah sorry, how I could I not find Mr. "It's My Mother's Fault I Can't Read That This Is An Illegal Substance" an irresistible force of nature.

Oh dear. Did a Nadal fan just use the PED stick to bash another player?

You need to be careful with that one.

+1

I agree KR's line was so funny , can't believe a Nadal fan could talk about banned substance , yes nothing proved against Nadal but believe me 99/100 people/fans always had doubt and will have doubt of Nadal's fitness, I don't question Nadal that doesn't mean I never doubted him, we need to wait for his post career auto biography.

It isnt a difficult concept to grasp, it simply cant be... You two are making unfounded, baseless allegations, I'm stating a matter of fact. Its amusing that a player WHO ACTUALLY TESTED POSITIVE is being defended on here, while you two continue with a smear campaign based on nothing by way of facts, or even spilled locker room talk. IT really isnt that difficult an idea, and its based on nothing more than the rather snobbish idea that tennis has suddenly become the Game of Thrones, fitness wise... It hasnt, and poor Murray had to make a lot of concessions on twitter a couple months ago when he tried to infer that tennis is now on the same plane, fitness wise as, say cycling, or boxing. Tennis simply isnt. In no other sport could a player go from a three hours and done player, to a 12-hour weekend marathon man, in 18 months, it isnt because Djokovic is a special case, or a freak, but rather, tennis really has such a relatively low base level. Simple as.

summerblues wrote:

banbrotam wrote:and believes he's unbeatable

The odds are he will find himself surprised come next Sunday.

He is one of the favorites, but I would have Nole above him and Rafa neck-and-neck; and if they meet in the final I would give the odds to Rafa (though I would be hoping to be wrong).  I am hoping Andy will get to play Dimi - I wonder how Dimi's game measures up against him.

Can't say I would put Djokovic above Andy or even Rafa at this moment in time.

I feel for Djokovic. The expectation to win the AO after that winning streak at the back end of last season. The expectation to beat Nadal at the FO. The expectation of being favourite for Wimbledon. I think too much is being placed on Djokovic given his form this year.

He still believes there is more to come from his partnership with Becker and I do hope that whatever that may be results in success for him.

Murray looking good but let's not get ahead of ourselves, he's faced rollover grass novices so far. When I was watching Bautista I was struck by how little power he has in his game, 75% of his serves were 100-105mph...you can't expect to beat a top10 player with that kind of arsenal on grass. He simply looked puny and inflexible.

Let's see how Murray fares when he faces a hard hitter with good movement. Anderson isn't a good mover, and that's a huge issue on grass. His first real challenge only happens vs. Dimitrov in quarters assuming Grigor wins R4.

I do expect Murray to make the semis but think he'll come unstuck vs Djokovic...Novak and Rafa if 90% of their form are a class above everyone else now IMO.

lydian wrote:Murray looking good but let's not get ahead of ourselves, he's faced rollover grass novices so far. When I was watching Bautista I was struck by how little power he has in his game, 75% of his serves were 100-105mph...you can't expect to beat a top10 player with that kind of arsenal on grass. He simply looked puny and inflexible.

Let's see how Murray fares when he faces a hard hitter with good movement. Anderson isn't a good mover, and that's a huge issue on grass. His first real challenge only happens vs. Dimitrov in quarters assuming Grigor wins R4.

I do expect Murray to make the semis but think he'll come unstuck vs Djokovic...Novak and Rafa if 90% of their form are a class above everyone else now IMO.

Agut won in Holland on the grass just last week so he's not a true novice. Not the hardest draw there by any means but he did beat Mahut there. I do agree with Mac though - he's round about the highest ranking he'll ever be at the moment.

I don't think Djokovic will beat Murray because:

a) I'm pretty sure Djokovic has a wrist injury and if he's done his shoulder in then he surely can't win.
b) They've played 2 grass matches and Djokovic hasn't looked like winning a set against him.