Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread IV

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Historical Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii

A new thread for the 2014/5 season.

A. Edinburgh Rugby


1. Coaching Team

Alan Solomons - head coach
Stevie Scott -  assistant coach
Omar Mouneimne - assistant coach

2. Players In

Neil Cochrane from London Wasps
John Andress from Worcester Warriors
Rory Sutherland from Gala RFC
Tom Heathcote from Bath Rugby
Michael Tait from Newcastle Falcons
Fraser McKenzie from Newcastle Falcons
Phil Burleigh from the Highlanders
Anton Bresler from the Sharks
Brett Thompson from USA 7s

3. Players Out

Steven Lawrie retired
Alun Walker released
Alex Allan to Glasgow Warriors
Geoff Cross to London Irish
Lewis Niven released
Sean Cox to London Irish
Robert McAlpine released
Perry Parker to Rotherham Titans
Izak van der Westhuizen released
Ross Rennie to Bristol Rugby
Dimitri Basilaia released
Alex Black released
Greig Laidlaw to Gloucester Rugby
Chris Leck released
Piers Francis released
Gregor Hunter released
Harry Leonard to Leeds Carnegie
Ben Atiga retired
Ben Cairns retired
Nick De Luca to Biarritz Olympique
Lee Jones released
Aleki Lutui to Gloucester Rugby

4. Pre-season Fixtures

Leicester Tigers v Edinburgh
Saturday 23 August, 14:00
Welford Road

Edinburgh v Newcastle Falcons
Friday 29 August, 19:45
Mansfield Park, Hawick

B. Glasgow Warriors


1. Coaching Team

Gregor Townsend – Head Coach
Shade Munro – Forwards Coach
Matt Taylor – Defence Coach

2. Players In

Alex Allan from Edinburgh
Murray McConnell from Ayr RFC
Euan Murray from Worcester Warriors
James Downey from Munster
Rossouw de Klerk from the Cheetahs

3. Players Out

Moray Low to Exeter Chiefs
Chris Cusiter to Sale Sharks
Ruaridh Jackson to London Wasps
Ed Kalman retired
Byron McGuigan released
Finlay Gillies released
Scott Wight to Melrose RFC
Gabriel Ascárate released
Folau Niua released
Carlin Isles to USA 7s

4. Pre-season Fixtures

Glasgow Warriors v Harlequins
Saturday 23 August, 14:30
Scotstoun Stadium

London Scottish v Glasgow Warriors
Saturday 30 August, 15:00
Richmond Athletic Ground

[funnyExiledScot]

I'm not sure what's worse. Driving through Dundee or arriving in Aberdeen. Neither are an architect's paradise.

I feel relatively blessed living in Edinburgh with family in Moray. The A9 is a cracking drive provided the roads are quiet, and the racing track along the Dava Moor is a driver's paradise, albeit a tad challenging in the snow!

[RDW]

The M8 has got to win the award for the most depressing drive in Scotland.

Absolutely no points of natural beauty or interest, and so much traffic. I'm sure there's a joke in there about female Glaswegians, but it's a Friday afternoon and my mind is too mushed to think one up!

One journey home from work on the bus there was a foreign guy Skyping his friend, with the camera pointing out the window showing him the entire trip along the M8- God knows what he was showing him!

[funnyExiledScot]

The M8 is grim - there's always that nasty smell when you pass Livingston as well.

Still, natural beauty does not a great road make. The road up the West side of Loch Lomond from Glasgow is beautiful, but I've nearly been killed each and every time I've tried to drive it, and there's always an accident on there. It's all those people desperate to escape Glasgow.....

[RDW]

I did the tender design for the road widening works at pulpit rock currently going on - so you can thank me for that when its done!   

[funnyExiledScot]

I did the tender design for the road widening works at pulpit rock currently going on - so you can thank me for that when its done!   

  

That said, I'm sure you were paid to do it. No-one seems to thank lawyers for doing their job   

[St John The Enforcer]

I did the tender design for the road widening works at pulpit rock currently going on - so you can thank me for that when its done!   

Is that the kind of music Andy Trimble and Ruan Pienaar listen to?   

I'll just get me coat....

[RDW]

 

  

[George Carlin]

I'll see your M8 and raise you the main E11 from Abu Dhabi to Dubai.
 
Nothing but desert for 200km, with always the prospect of a high speed, fiery death to look forward to when one of the 10 year olds in their Lamborghini Aventadors finally gives up trying that awkward thing of steering, sending a text message, changing the CD player, watching the road and eating a shwarma all at the same time.

[RDW]

You'd get more sympathy if it wasn't for the fact that we know you're probably driving a Lamborghini too!

[funnyExiledScot]

I always had GC down as more of a family wagon sort of guy.....which in Abu Dhabi translates to a white Range Rover Sport with tinted windows.....

[George Carlin]

I always had GC down as more of a family wagon sort of guy.....which in Abu Dhabi translates to a white Range Rover Sport with tinted windows.....

Correct. Although we chose an Audi Q7 instead. 

[RDW]

Interview with McInally about his switch to hooker.  He's certainly aiming high anyway-  thinks he can be a world class hooker.  Bold words considering he's barely even played there!

Didn't realise he was only 24 too - plenty time yet.

STUART McINALLY celebrates a 24th birthday today hoping he is on the eve of a brave new rugby era.

Good enough to have sat once on the bench for Scotland without getting the cap call, McInally – known as “Rambo” – made the decision just over a year ago to switch from back row to hooker.

Now, after spells learning his craft at Premiership level in Scotland followed by an extended loan with English Championship side Bristol, he believes the time is right to make a major push back to his previous level – and beyond.

“If everything works out I’ll be back,” says McInally, adding: “I’d like to think I’d have gone on to play for Scotland in the back row but would I have gone on to be one of the best in the world? Probably not.

“I’ve got the chance to maybe be one of the best hookers in the world, a chance to offer something a bit different.”

The global goal is one McInally does shy away from.

Referring to how he had to master the primary chore of throwing to the line-out, he said: “The first thing I did was get a bag of balls and hammer them against a tree in Inverleith Park for an hour a day, every day, for three months.

“There is only so much satisfaction to be gained from throwing a ball at a tree. It’s mind numbing. But if you want to be the best in the world at something it’s going to be boring at times.

“There could be a situation where five minutes to go in a game we are on our own line and I just have to find the jumper with a throw. That’s why I have had to spend so much time on this aspect.”

Initially, McInally was sceptical about the switch he hopes will start to bear fruit in Edinburgh colours when the pre-season programme opens against Leicester at Melrose a fortnight today.

“The decision was 100 per cent mine but when the coaches came to me with the idea it was not something I had thought about. Initially I was not keen at all. “The first thing Scott Johnson (now director of rugby) said to me is you could make it as an international back row but you could be an even better hooker. I could have picked up caps as a back row but the way it was put to me suggested there could be World Cups etc. That really excited me.

“What excites me, too, is that it was not because I was too short or too slow to play back row. I was told ‘you can play back row but you go on and be a better hooker’ (so) it was a positive move.

“I didn’t want to be 28 or 29 and think ‘what if …’

“Rather I’d prefer to look back and say ‘ah well, I went for it and it didn’t work out’

“I spoke to numerous people, most notably Ross Ford and (ex Scotland captain) Jason White. Ross gave me confidence that it could be done and he thought I could do it in a year having switched after age-grade rugby himself.”

The next step for McInally was to get game time under his belt, but the Scottish domestic scene was to prove problematic.

“It was difficult being at Currie one week (for league matches) and Edinburgh Accies (in the British and Irish Cup).

“On one occasion I started at tight head prop and that wasn’t ideal.

“A big turning point came when I went to Bristol (five top team appearances to add to 58 at Edinburgh).

“There I was treated not like a back row who had changed position but as a new hooker who had just arrived at the club.

“That really forced me to work under pressure and hopefully has improved me so that I am ready to play for Edinburgh.

“My goal is to get in the squad as quickly as possible.

“It is a big ask to get into the starting line-up ahead of Ross Ford and I have to be realistic that the bench will be a starting point.

“From there I hope to get a run and show what I have learned at Bristol.”

Does McInally sometimes wonder how things would have turned out had he got the nod to enter the fray against the Springboks?

“It was one of the proudest days of my life because I’d worked so hard to put myself in that window,” he said. “It gave me a real vision of where I wanted to get to.

“But if I had got on I would probably have said I am a Scotland back row and stayed put.

“I’m not a great believer in things being ‘meant to be’ and in making the change I know what I want to do after rugby, anyway: I want to be a pilot.

“So, with rugby it is a chance to make my family proud by playing for Scotland and maybe the Lions.”

This would-be pilot – he has already accrued multiple flying miles – truly epitomises the phrase “shoot for the moon and you may just hit the stars!” 

[George Carlin]

In all honesty, Jason White is probably a better hooker than Ross Ford.

[tigertattie]

Yo RDW, go and do me a favour and put in a tender to fix the damn edinburgh car park bypass

John Beattie was one of the guys who built that peice of nonsense. Honour needs to be restored to civil engineers by at least sticking a hard shoulder along the whole road!

[RDW]

To be fair, with the government investing heavily in the new Forth Bridge, A9 dualling, M8, A96 and the Aberdeen Western Periphery Bypass, the Bypass probably has to wait!

And anyway I'm not a highways engineer - they're the whipping boys of the Civil Engineering profession!

[tigertattie]

typical excuses coming from the red tape brigade!

You should all have a one year sabbatical working in McDonalds to learn about putting your customers first!

[funnyExiledScot]

I like that article from McInally - shows the right sort of ambition. His first job is to convince Solomons that he's a better hooker than Hilterbrand or Cochrane, do that and he's in the match day squad on a regular basis. Then he can compete with Ross Ford.

Throwing a ball at a tree in the park and hitting it is a decent start. I suspect Ross Ford could throw a ball in the middle of Sherwood Forest without managing to hit a tree.

There's no question is potential as a hooker in open play is huge, and it was always going to come down to the set pieces basics of hooking and throwing. He's lucky that our hooking resources are so threadbare. Ford can't throw, MacArthur is the same size as John Smit's hand, Hall is old (and was average when he played for Scotland in his prime), Lawson is both small and prone to getting in the way of the backs and the younger guys like Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce et al have roughly the same amount of professional experience as McInally at hooker.

I hope Solomons gives him a chance.

[RDW]

I like that article from McInally - shows the right sort of ambition. His first job is to convince Solomons that he's a better hooker than Hilterbrand or Cochrane, do that and he's in the match day squad on a regular basis. Then he can compete with Ross Ford.

Throwing a ball at a tree in the park and hitting it is a decent start. I suspect Ross Ford could throw a ball in the middle of Sherwood Forest without managing to hit a tree.

There's no question is potential as a hooker in open play is huge, and it was always going to come down to the set pieces basics of hooking and throwing. He's lucky that our hooking resources are so threadbare. Ford can't throw, MacArthur is the same size as John Smit's hand, Hall is old (and was average when he played for Scotland in his prime), Lawson is both small and prone to getting in the way of the backs and the younger guys like Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce et al have roughly the same amount of professional experience as McInally at hooker.

I hope Solomons gives him a chance.

Absolutely. The list at hooker is neither long or brimming full of quality. A few years ago McArthur was seen as the great hope for replacing Ford, but he's definitely stagnated since and looks like he's heading to be another good but not great hooker. The one thing that would have elevated him past Ford in the last season - Lineout throwing- was also a weakness for him. Especially at Scotland level (although as has been shown some of it was neither Ford or McArthur's fault).

It's up to the next generation - McInally, Brown and Bryce (George Turner in a few years time too) to stake a claim.

Get in the squad now and the world cup becomes a distinct possibility - I'd rather not be having to rely on Hall and Lawson!

[George Carlin]

Agreed - hooker is the most open position in the Scotland squad at the moment.

Just remember that Ford only got the regular shirt in the first place when Hall was crocked just before the 2007 RWC. The sad truth is that there is no other home nation who would have given Ford 77 caps by now.

[Majestic83]

Out of McInally, Fraser Brown and Kev Bryce the one i think has the most potential to be Scotland hooker is Fraser Brown.
His work rate around the park is incredible and his line out throwing is normally spot on. Also has a lot of experience as a captain having captained, Scotland u18s and U20s.
I would have said he was the best player on the pitch when he played for Scotland A against England saxons earlier this year.
Hopefully Townsend gives Brown and Bryce a lot more game time this season.

[RDW]

As good a servant Hall has been (he had a good season last season) I do hope Toonie only uses him as squad cover. Both Bryce and Brown are capped now (both in the back row too!) and really should be getting gametime alongside McArthur.

What's pleasing is that all the hooker options at Edinburgh and Glasgow are SQ - there really shouldn't be any excuses for not developing more options for Scotland!

[BigGee]

Out of McInally, Fraser Brown and Kev Bryce the one i think has the most potential to be Scotland hooker is Fraser Brown.
His work rate around the park is incredible and his line out throwing is normally spot on. Also has a lot of experience as a captain having captained, Scotland u18s and U20s.
I would have said he was the best player on the pitch when he played for Scotland A against England saxons earlier this year.
Hopefully Townsend gives Brown and Bryce a lot more game time this season.

Interestingly though it was Bryce, not Brown that was taken on tour, despite Brown having marginally more experience. He seems to be a bit more of a physical specimen than Brown, which is deemed necessary by the powers that are to play international rugby. Having seen McArthur struggle I would not disagree with that, he unfortunately is just to small to play test rugby. If nothing else McInally will be physically up to the challenge, whether he can master the intricacies of the set plays remains to be seen.

[RDW]

McCarthur - 6ft, 98kg

Brown - 6ft, 103kg

Bryce - 6ft 1, 105kg

Ford - 6ft1, 115kg

McInally - 6ft3, 105kg

[funnyExiledScot]

I'm surprised by those numbers - particularly MacArthur vs Brown. Brown looks much bigger in person.

[RDW]

5kg is still noticeable, especially when it is mainly muscle.

6ft 3 is very tall for a hooker but I don't believe that having seen him in person - suspect it is rounding up!

[RDW]

Also worth noting that weight isn't everything - a 17st south African is probably going to be a lot more physical than a 17st Scotsman!

[BigGee]

Whatever happens we should at least have some options this year. Ford has been picked many times when not in form due to the lack of alternatives.

Hall is injured and I would imagine is in his last season with Glasgow and in professional rugby. He has been a great servant to the club but it was noticeable that he got no international call last year even when he was playing well and the other hookers were not. They decided to look past him, which you would have to say was the right decision.

That does mean that Brown and Bryce are going to get game time and being fair to McArthur he is going to get the chance to show that he is not too small, though I still think he is! Dougie Hall is likely to spend his last season as a very valuable squad player. He still has plenty to add to the group and will get some game time as well when the internationals are away.

At Edinburgh McInally really should not have to much to do to show that he is at least the second best hooker in the squad. Some genuine competition should not do Ross Ford any harm either. Hilterbrand and Cochrane, it is hard to see as anything other than squad players. Turner, potential there but nothing definite yet.

[funnyExiledScot]

John Smit is around 6ft 2 so I think 6ft 3 of thereabouts is probably manageable.

Looks like he could use a few extra kgs but it's equally possible that he's put on extra weight and the stats are out of date. Moving from back row to hooker would I imagine entail a small amount of reconditioning, perhaps sacrificing some mobility for a bit more firepower.

I'm quite excited about the potential for McInally. He played some cracking stuff from number 8 in our HC run, and he's a good ball carrier with excellent handling ability.

[RDW]

Aye from what I've seen lately he's definitely bulked up. As you say his speed will suffer, but that isn't such an issue in the front row - he'll still be quicker than most hookers.

[George Carlin]

Glad to read more about these players - I really haven't seen much of most of them.

I agree that McInally is quite the prospect and he's made the positional switch young enough to have time to make a decent fist of it.

From a Glasgow perspective, it is a bit worrying that Hall became our first choice last season, given that he's knocking on a bit. Telling that both Bryce and Brown are on Glasgow's books which is a bit of a bottleneck but it's good to know that both players are apparently rated.

[RDW]

Bryce is apparently one of the strongest in the Glasgow squad, and can out-squat anyone supposedly (apart from the Messiah obviously), which bodes well in the scrums.

[funnyExiledScot]

Bryce is apparently one of the strongest in the Glasgow squad, and can out-squat anyone supposedly (apart from the Messiah obviously), which bodes well in the scrums.

   

[BigGee]

The first block of Pro 12 fixtures are out now and it looks like it is going to be quite easy to follow both Glasgow and Edinburgh on TV this year, with a lot more of it with commentary in English. Rumours that Sky would only be covering the Irish games seem much exaggerated. Glasgow I think have 5 fixtures covered by Sky and both 1872 fixtures are as well.

The mix of broadcasters actually seems to work quite well and a lot of weekends there will be Pro 12 rugby on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That can only be a good thing. You are probably better off watching the S4C coverage in welsh though, as at least you can't understand how biased the commentary is!

[George Carlin]

Not sure that I could easily hand back my weekly fix of George Hook's fleckspittle racism and jingoistic, hopelessly cycloptic polemics about Faaarigners in the game.

[RDW]

Edinburgh

Munster A - TG4
Connacht H - Alba
Ospreys A - S4C
Scarlets H - Alba
Ulster A (TBC)
Dragons H - Sky (interesting choice of game for Sky this weekend!)
Leinster A - TG4
Blues H - Alba
Zebre A - none
Treviso H - Alba
Connacht A - TG4

So all but one game in the opening rounds will be on TV (or internet stream), which is good.

I'm bored so will do Glasgow now...

[tigertattie]

Is anyone else getting a bit worried here?

Scott Johnson is slowly but surely developing his masterplan!

Step 1 - Convince Dave Denton, a No 8, to play at 7 for Scotland.
Step 1 - Convince Ryan Wilson, a No 8, to play at 6 for Scotland.
Step 3 - Convince Stu McNally, a No 8, to play at 2 for Scotland.

Future steps
Convince other No 8's to play 1,3,4 and 5 for Scotland and have a whole pack of 8's playing at one time!

[RDW]

Glasgow

Leinster H - Sky
Blues A - S4C
Dragons A - Sky
Connacht H - None
Treviso A - TBC
Ulster A - Sky
Treviso H - None
Scarlets A - BBC Wales
Dragons H - Alba
Munster H - Sky
Edinburgh H - Sky
Edinburgh A - Alba
Scarlets H - Alba

Needles to say, a lot more of Glasgow's fixtures on Sky!

So Sky get the 1st leg of the 1872, Alba gets the second.

[funnyExiledScot]

Problem is I bet it'll be on Sky Sports 17 or something stupid like that. I only have Sky Sports 1 & 2.

[GLove39]

FFS. So since Aberdeen sucks and there's no appetitive in pubs or understanding of what 'r-u-g-b-y' is. Other than pixalated streams.
That's people without sky missing Glasgow V Leinster, Munster, Ulster & the first Edinburgh     

[funnyExiledScot]

You should move to Kilmarnock, the new home of Scottish rugby.....

[RDW]

Thought I'd look at the timing of Edinburgh's home games - the TV schedule is messing things around here a bit.  Some change from every home game on a Friday night!


Connacht H - Alba - Friday 19:35
Scarlets H - Alba - Friday 19:35
Dragons H - Sky  - Saturday 14:40   
Blues H - Alba - Sunday 16:00   
Treviso H - Alba - Friday 19:35

First of all I can't make Saturday afternoon matches (and neither can any one playing / coaching / refereeing / supporting local amateur rugby).

Second of all - Sunday afternoon at 4PM?? It's not as if the game is on Sky so subject to strange timings - it's only on Alba!

*Edit - just realised the Blues game is the day after the Tonga game

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

The first block of Pro 12 fixtures are out now and it looks like it is going to be quite easy to follow both Glasgow and Edinburgh on TV this year, with a lot more of it with commentary in English. Rumours that Sky would only be covering the Irish games seem much exaggerated. Glasgow I think have 5 fixtures covered by Sky and both 1872 fixtures are as well.

The mix of broadcasters actually seems to work quite well and a lot of weekends there will be Pro 12 rugby on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That can only be a good thing. You are probably better off watching the S4C coverage in welsh though, as at least you can't understand how biased the commentary is!

Some of us will miss the gaelic commentary   

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Bryce is apparently one of the strongest in the Glasgow squad, and can out-squat anyone supposedly (apart from the Messiah obviously), which bodes well in the scrums.

That's slightly different - we call it levitation - one of his little tricks

[cakeordeath]

You should move to Kilmarnock,

Said no one ever, until now..

[RDW]

Been reading about this Max McFarland guy - apparently he played for Ireland under 20s but has been poached as an Edinburgh EDP, and is turning out for Boroughmuir.

He's got a pretty decent highlights reel - looks absolutely rapid! Quite lightweight but he's certainly got pace.

[nickj]

I wonder if he's been poached with a view to playing for Scotland? He does look pretty rapid and he's got a decent step.

[funnyExiledScot]

Well I welcome the addition of any player with genuine pace at Edinburgh. Unless Solomons is going to give Hoyland and Farndale a proper shot this season, Visser is the only player with real pace. Fife is sharp but he's more elusive than quick.

Beware the YouTube clip syndrome though. Mike Penn looked good on YouTube.....

[RDW]

Beware the YouTube clip syndrome though. Mike Penn looked good on YouTube.....

  

True, but a good YouTube clip is a good place to start, and it's all we've got to go on with a young player. He's obviously rapid with a killer sidestep, and that's something you've either got or you don't (just ask Ben Atiga).

They are good assets to have and if he can develop his game over the next few years he might come into contention.  Alternatively, he might be like many of the promising youngsters in the past who never go on to play for Edinburgh and are never heard of again!

The problem is there doesn't seem to be much room in Solomons' team for small, fast wingers. The signing of this Brett Thomson guy (6ft 4 winger) makes that clear.

I hope we expand our tactics from last year, because that was very much route one stuff.

[tigertattie]

Beware the YouTube clip syndrome though. Mike Penn looked good on YouTube.....

So did Ben Atiga!

[RDW]

He did?  

In other news (and keeping with Ben Atiga) - Barr are a new sponsor for the SRU!

Bet he's gutted he left just as copious amounts of sugary drinks have become readily available at training...

Who needs Lucozade when you can have a tin of Irn Bru before a game!

[Sponsored content]