Emanuel Steward view on Haye Klitschko

Interesting reading Emanuel's comments on Eastside Boxing, he claims Wladimir to be faster than Haye, and also cannot see Haye lasting 4 rounds.

Now do you think this is just typical trainer talk, or do Steward's comments hold any weight?

Personally I can't see that Wlad is faster than Haye, whilst his jab is indeed a swift offensive weapon, Haye as an overall package in terms of foot speed, hand speed, head movement etc has to be the faster of the two, surely?

Manny reckons that we will see a much more aggressive Wlad, but do you see it going this way? Whilst it may indeed prove effective and that Haye can't live with it, it may also play straight into Haye's hands, and lead to Wlad being nailed with a big shot early doors. I'm not so sure Manny is being 100% truthful here, and despite his analysis usually being very shrewd, I see this one as trainer bias and maybe even a few mind games.

I'm not convinced that Steward believes what he's saying here, but we shouldn't be too surprised, and nor should we read too much in to it. Steward has a history of getting outlandishly vocal when there's a really big fight on the horizon for one of his charges. He did exactly the same for Hamed-Barrera, and I doubt it's much more than a ploy to hype up his man, the same as any trainer would.

Personally, I'd be amazed if Wladimir came out in a more aggressive manner than he usually does. He knows that he needs a win here to secure any kind of place in Heavyweight history, and I don't for one second believe that he sees Haye in the same way he saw Chagaev, Peter or Ibragimov; he's well aware that Haye represents a fighter he hasn't experienced the likes of before. He'll be putting the feelers out in the first three or four rounds and little else, for my money.

With regards to speed, I think there is a real claim to be made for Wladimir having the faster hands than Haye, particularly since Haye has stepped up from 200 lb, dropping his punch output significantly. There's little in it, though, and I'd certainly give Haye the edge in terms of 'in and out' movement and reflexes, hence why he is a much more explosive fighter than Wladimir.

Everything's bubbling up nicely for this fight.

It is trainer talk. But I do believe Steward is correct. Wlad is fast(ish) and with a punishing jab. I pick him to beat Haye in 8 but wont be surprised if he does in quicker.

He's bigging up his man. Nothing wrong with that. Whilst I don't disagree that wlad is pretty quick for his size, if either steward or wlad genuinely believe that wlad is faster than haye they will be in for a shock in the ring. I get the impression that Hayes opponents only appreciate his attributes once they've had to deal with them first hand - they know he looks quick, but don't realise how quick until they're in with him. Likewise they don't realise he's more difficult to hit than he looks until they're in with him. I'm convinced haye can win this fight. He is the man for a big occasion, he will turn up in fantastic shape and along with booth will have a meticulously devised gameplan. I remember prior to Enzo haye said he would be a "different class" on the night and so it proved. I know wlad is no enzo, but I think haye will turn up on literally another planet to wlads other opponents in terms of his shape, his speed, his power, his gameplan, his intelligence and his confidence. Team Hayemaker have proved time and again as recently as this weekend that they are not to be underestimated.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:He's bigging up his man. Nothing wrong with that. Whilst I don't disagree that wlad is pretty quick for his size, if either steward or wlad genuinely believe that wlad is faster than haye they will be in for a shock in the ring. I get the impression that Hayes opponents only appreciate his attributes once they've had to deal with them first hand - they know he looks quick, but don't realise how quick until they're in with him. Likewise they don't realise he's more difficult to hit than he looks until they're in with him. I'm convinced haye can win this fight. He is the man for a big occasion, he will turn up in fantastic shape and along with booth will have a meticulously devised gameplan. I remember prior to Enzo haye said he would be a "different class" on the night and so it proved. I know wlad is no enzo, but I think haye will turn up on literally another planet to wlads other opponents in terms of his shape, his speed, his power, his gameplan, his intelligence and his confidence. Team Hayemaker have proved time and again as recently as this weekend that they are not to be underestimated.

Or maybe Haye will be in for a shock.

I just get this bad feeling that as soon as Haye feels a Wlad jab, he will get a Herbie Hide monent and get bounced several times.

azania wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:He's bigging up his man. Nothing wrong with that. Whilst I don't disagree that wlad is pretty quick for his size, if either steward or wlad genuinely believe that wlad is faster than haye they will be in for a shock in the ring. I get the impression that Hayes opponents only appreciate his attributes once they've had to deal with them first hand - they know he looks quick, but don't realise how quick until they're in with him. Likewise they don't realise he's more difficult to hit than he looks until they're in with him. I'm convinced haye can win this fight. He is the man for a big occasion, he will turn up in fantastic shape and along with booth will have a meticulously devised gameplan. I remember prior to Enzo haye said he would be a "different class" on the night and so it proved. I know wlad is no enzo, but I think haye will turn up on literally another planet to wlads other opponents in terms of his shape, his speed, his power, his gameplan, his intelligence and his confidence. Team Hayemaker have proved time and again as recently as this weekend that they are not to be underestimated.

Or maybe Haye will be in for a shock.

I just get this bad feeling that as soon as Haye feels a Wlad jab, he will get a Herbie Hide monent and get bounced several times.

Maybe he will. But I imagine part of Hayes gameplan will be to keep cagey and circle out of range of wlads jab. He will eat it at times no doubt, but a jab isn't going to wipe him out as long as he doesn't spend all night blindly marching into it like Peter et al - gassing against Carl Thompson aside I don't think haye is as fragile as some like to make out. He can win this fight if he's clever, which I think he is.

If he does that he loses on points as I question his stamina. Imo his best change is to rush him and Wlad doesn;t like it up him.

azania wrote:If he does that he loses on points as I question his stamina. Imo his best change is to rush him and Wlad doesn;t like it up him.

When I say fight cagey and circle out of wlads jabbing range, I meant that he'll do that whilst waiting for openings to rush wlad and unleash a barrage of power punches. I cannot for one minute imagine haye will be going there with the intent of boxing to a decision - virtually impossible with wlads size and pugilistic advantages, throw in the German hometown advantage and haye will of course know a stoppage is his only chance. The question is, can he get it? Personally I think he can, if his tactics are spot on. He's quick enough and hits hard enough to hurt wlad, he's against an opponent who has shown vulnerabilities on enough separate occasions to make them real, and he's a very good finisher when he has his man in trouble. It's a tough fight, hard to call which is of course why we all want to see it in the first place, but haye is a very dangerous opponent for wlad and is not to be underestimated.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

azania wrote:If he does that he loses on points as I question his stamina. Imo his best change is to rush him and Wlad doesn;t like it up him.

When I say fight cagey and circle out of wlads jabbing range, I meant that he'll do that whilst waiting for openings to rush wlad and unleash a barrage of power punches. I cannot for one minute imagine haye will be going there with the intent of boxing to a decision - virtually impossible with wlads size and pugilistic advantages, throw in the German hometown advantage and haye will of course know a stoppage is his only chance. The question is, can he get it? Personally I think he can, if his tactics are spot on. He's quick enough and hits hard enough to hurt wlad, he's against an opponent who has shown vulnerabilities on enough separate occasions to make them real, and he's a very good finisher when he has his man in trouble. It's a tough fight, hard to call which is of course why we all want to see it in the first place, but haye is a very dangerous opponent for wlad and is not to be underestimated.

Haye will have to force the oppenings. Wlad doesn't give much away. He is mentally very strong and has a winning formula. The blueprint to beat him has been laid. Those who did it went for him and took risks. Haye is a good finisher and he will have to take risks.

For Emmanuel to say Wladamir's quicker than Haye is garbage IMO.

Also if anything I think Haye will start the strongest in the first 4 rounds and put the pressure on Wladamir if anyone's getting knocked out in the first 4 I would say it will be Wladamir. I think if the fight goes past 8 that Haye's stamina will come into it and the swing of the fight will go into Wladamirs direction and possibly a late stoppage. Haye is in with a real shout though the first few rounds.

I've had a sneaky feeling for quite a while now that Wlad will bemore aggressive than normal.

I'll never forget Bugner, enraged by Richard Dunn's trash talking, eschewing his customary cautious style to come roaring out of his corner at the opening bell and absolutely blitzing the hapless Dunn. Bonecrusher Smith also did it to Witherspoon.

I'm not much of a Wlad fan, but if he has it in him to be passionate I'm guessing he could be quite a handful, and while he doesn't have the chin of Bugner or Smith he might just decide to go for broke, anyway, and catch Haye by surprise.

I think Haye will look to stay out of harms way for the first 6 rounds, much like he did with Valuev. I think their plan is that Wlad will get frustrated at which point Haye will take the risks.

One would have to ask Windy, in his previous 50+ fights, when has Wlad even shown any aggression/passion? They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks and yet I believe that if Wlad goes against everything Manny has ever taught him and gets tagged, he'll revert to type which, by my estimation, will consist of him scrambling around on the canvas like a new born foal.

Whilst I believe there's a part of Wlad that would love to be more devil-may-care, I honestly don't believe he has it in his psychological make-up. I think winding up on the canvas so many times has had a lasting effect on him and whilst he must surely get credit for climbing back into the ring, I think he's done so with safety uppermost in his mind. Rather than aggression, I think he'll stick with what brought him to the dance and use the jab to try set up his overhand right. You never know, he may throw a hook or an uppercut but it will probably be an accident if he does.

Haye's tactics surely have to be to negate Wlad's best weapon and therefore, like Groves v DeGale, the plan must surely be to keep moving, not let his man settle and look for openings. If Haye DOES get an opening, I think his punch variety is superior to Wlad's and he's also a pretty clinical finisher when he has his man hurt.

I used to rate Steward but if he honestly thinks the robot is faster then he's losing the plot...

Hard fight to call though which is a bit of shock at heavy in the last 10 years!!!

Vlad's jab, Haye's speed and the fallibility of the two chins are really all this fight is about...

Me I pick Haye to land first and get him out of there..


However if he doesn't do it early then Vlad's chances grow and grow,,

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I used to rate Steward but if he honestly thinks the robot is faster then he's losing the plot...

Hard fight to call though which is a bit of shock at heavy in the last 10 years!!!

Vlad's jab, Haye's speed and the fallibility of the two chins are really all this fight is about...

Me I pick Haye to land first and get him out of there..


However if he doesn't do it early then Vlad's chances grow and grow,,

Now you've gone and put the mockers on him. Back Wlad big time.....

If he doesn't do it early..

is my get out of jail card

DAVE667 wrote:One would have to ask Windy, in his previous 50+ fights, when has Wlad even shown any aggression/passion? They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks and yet I believe that if Wlad goes against everything Manny has ever taught him and gets tagged, he'll revert to type which, by my estimation, will consist of him scrambling around on the canvas like a new born foal.

That would certainly be the money call, Dave, and I agree with you. It's simply the memory of Bugner v Dunn and Smith v Witherspoon which set me thinking as to ' what if ? '

Wouldn't worry about DAVE/WINDY.....If he loses he'll just get his brother to sort Haye out like he did with Sanders..

Think this is kidology from Steward, my view on Wlad's tactics is they will approach it from the perspective of if it ain't broke don't fix it and whatever we think of Wlad's in ring performances they get results. Think Manny is not foolish enough to not have respect for Haye's power and will also know that for a small heavyweight being in the ring with Wlad for the long haul can be heavy going.

For me I expect Wlad to be cautious early, look to hold Haye in close, keep the jab in his face and expect the cumulative effect to drain Haye late on. Cannot see him veering from this whatever the provocation.

Too much bias to read a lot into it.

Anyone have the Boxing News special on this fight? Wondering if it's worth getting.

Agreed Rowley, Wlad will look to grab, lean and tire Haye out where possible...if he he can't keep him off with the jab. However, I'm sure Haye's working on dealing with that in training. All the footage shows him working on nullify the long jab but, as the weekend showed, Booth will undoubtedly be working on Plan B and C and if Steward doesn't realise that, it's time to hang 'em up.

Just wonder if Wlad's leaning and holding will go against him. Can't imagine too many will be impressed with spoiling tactics and I hope he doesn't make it an utter stinker just so he can try secure the win. It's he biggest HW fight for a decade and I hope it's one to remember for all the right reasons.

Jeff Powell from The Mail (who didn't pick Ali to win in Zaire and, if he did, doesn't go on about it) picks Haye to win late. He reckons Wlad will get sloppy and Haye will catch him and stop him

You can't stick spots on a zebra and call it a leopard in my opinion. Gnomic utterances aside, Wlad will do what Wlad always has since time immemorial and play jab, jab, cross. I suspect that this will be enough. All Haye's chances are predicated on him being a sufficiently sharp hitter to dent Wlad's questionable chin. Personally, I don't see that much evidence that at this weight, Haye is that hitter. A massive hitter does not take nine rounds to see off Ruiz. Tua, a properly massive hitter, showed what can be done there.

No, I feel that Haye will try and box cannily, but will wear the physical scars of battle, which will probably be decisive. I see no proof at all that Klitschko will abandon the cautious style that has served him so well in recent years. My best guess is that Haye, either cut or swollen-eyed beyond endurance, is pulled out by a compassionate ref somewhere around the tenth, still on his feet. The scores at that stage may be fairly close; I don't think that Wlad's Willie Pep, either. The heavier artillery, however, belongs to the Ukrainian.

Haye doesn't need to be a massive hitter to have Wlad in trouble though does he? Once tagged, he goes into his shell but without the defensive nous to survive. If THAT happens, Haye takes him out.

Just wonder if Wlad's leaning and holding will go against him. Can't imagine too many will be impressed with spoiling tactics and I hope he doesn't make it an utter stinker just so he can try secure the win.
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The problem is Dave Wlad's audience and fan base is in Germany and having been there for one of his fights can absolutely assure you they do not give a monkey's as long as he is winning. Without exaggerating at the fight I was there for they cheered jabs!! As Hatton said they cheered him for tactics he would get chased out of Manchester for.

You say that captain but Ruiz has been in with other pretty big hitters, and you could argue that the Tua blow out was just a case of him being caught cold. I think Haye certainly has the power to down Wlad, who by no means has a chin that Ruiz has. Intriguing fight, and I see it as either Haye by KO inside 8, or a scenario that plays out similar to yours above.

Not sure I agree with you there, Dave. You're talking there about a fighter who had that kind of problem several years ago, now. I think that he has picked up both a better defence and better survival instincts with experience. As I said, he's no Pep or Locche, but his performances and results in recent times show that he's damn difficult to prise open. Haye, in my opinion, lacks the jackhammer power to penetrate the defences and scramble the senses.

But has he had to survive since then, Captain? DOn't think he has been troubled whatsoever barring the Peter fight in which he was down 3 times, but Peter was too slow to capitalise..

With respect, FoF, I'm not sure I see the other really big hitters who have shared a ring with Ruiz. Maybe Golota (who floored him twice) or Rahman, who is basically useless, but otherwise, it's been a diet of Holyfields, Valuevs, McClines and so on and so forth. To me, there is still a major question about Haye's power at this weight that he has yet to eradicate.

As you and Fists state above, Wlad's defence may have improved but it's not as if he's been pitted against HW with the tools to unpick that particular lock is it?

I do feel this "unbeaten for seven years" stuff, is blown out of proportion when you consider the quality of opposition he's faced. Wlad's been in a comfort zone for so long I wonder if he'll freeze if he does get tagged and have to dredge up what to do next from memory

HumanWindmill wrote:I've had a sneaky feeling for quite a while now that Wlad will bemore aggressive than normal. I'll never forget Bugner, enraged by Richard Dunn's trash talking, eschewing his customary cautious style to come roaring out of his corner at the opening bell and absolutely blitzing the hapless Dunn. Bonecrusher Smith also did it to Witherspoon.

I don't think so. They are both professionals, they know the trash is not personal. Haye is playing the bad guy, WK is playing the good guy. It's just marketing.

To play devils advocate Dave have we seen any evidence beyond his own not inconsiderable bluster that Haye is significantly better than what Wlad has been facing. As others have said Ruiz was ageing and was never that great to start with, Audley is an irrelevance and he barely turned Valuev over in much more impressive fashion than Holyfield's ghost did.

I personally think Haye has some assets that can trouble Wlad but as of yet his heavyweight reign and performances don't really serve to mark him out as elite.

DAVE667 wrote:As you and Fists state above, Wlad's defence may have improved but it's not as if he's been pitted against HW with the tools to unpick that particular lock is it?

I do feel this "unbeaten for seven years" stuff, is blown out of proportion when you consider the quality of opposition he's faced. Wlad's been in a comfort zone for so long I wonder if he'll freeze if he does get tagged and have to dredge up what to do next from memory

You always seem to approach this from the perspective that Wlad is the guy with all the questions to answer.

Its probably worth remembering that Wlad is the more established and proven heavyweight here and any question marks (and there are some) that can be thrown at him are just as applicable to Haye.

I dont see why the 7 year unbeaten stretch is blown out of proportion because 7 years ago he was losing to guys on a level that he is dispatching comfortably now.

I actually think Haye is the guy with more questions to answer at heavyweight and more to prove. Unlike Wlad, he hasnt got much of a record at heavyweight at all so its far more difficult to evaluate where he is at. A MD over Valuev and third tier wins over Ruiz, Barret and Harrison make him the much more difficult fighter to evaluate.

Captain, I was indeed referring to Golota and Rahman (agreed he is useless, but still packs a wallop).

There may be questions over Haye's HW power, but I believe it is enough that if he does get through, he may well have Wlad in a lot of trouble.

Well, he had Ruiz over twice in the first and had he not had a rush of blood to the head, may well have finished him off in the opener. He switched off for a couple of rounds before getting his act together and finishing him off. Ruiz was generally a long night's work for anyone irrespective of his standing in the eyes of the HW elite.

As for Valuev, all the naysayers re haye's negativity have clearly never broken their hand and continued to hit the same object that was hard enough to break it in the first place. Personally, I wouldn't advise it (it hurts) and I don't blame Haye for not doing it either. Having said that, he still managed to wobbled Valuev with his supposedly weaker left hand, so I'd wager he does pack a decent enough shot (Holyfield couldn't do it...nor has anyone else come close).

The closest opponent to Haye that Wlad has faced since Sanders has to be ""Fast" Eddie Chambers who still went 11 or so rounds. As I recall (watched it once, don't fancy sitting through it again), whilst Wlad was never in danger of being KO'd, on a couple of occasions when Chambers let his hands go, Wlad looked terrified and flailed his arms wildly as opposed to tucking up tight. This is supposed to be the improved defence that Captain was referring to.

As I've stated before, there's a strong case to be made for Wlad winning, as there is for Haye, but on the evidence of a fight that took place not too long ago, Wlad is still the same old Wlad underneath.



Manos wrote "You always seem to approach this from the perspective that Wlad is the guy with all the questions to answer."

Well, given he's supposed the number one guy out there, a large number of people still aren't convinced by him so I'd suggest that he does still have more questions to answer than Haye. He's still not been hit flush enough in seven years to answer the questions re his chin and ability to survive. He's never faced any who's launched a sustained asssault and he's no faced anyone who's even looked like they had anything even remotely approaching ambition.

Your just not capabe of anything impartial when it comes to Wlad.

The fact hes rated the best heavyweight means he doesnt have as much to prove. Its up to Haye to prove he is the best. Not vice versa.

All this "Wlad hasnt been hit flush in 7 years" applies exactly the same to Haye. You seem to be assuming Haye is incapable of being hit. If Wlad lands a right cross or even a strong jab then how is Haye likely to cope?

Wlad has a far more proven record at heavyweight. BEaten more top ranked guys, knocked out more heavyweights, reigned longer as a champion, given up hardly any rounds.

Then there is standard lets just dismiss all Wlads opponents as having no ambition. As if Hayes opponents are any better. Wlad has clearly fought the superior fighters over his career.

If you think Wlad has more to prove than Haye then theres no hope for you. Hayes entire argument is based on "he hasnt fought anyone like me". Fine. But the exact same applies to Haye. Wlad is the more established heavyweight in almost every way.

On the contrary Manos, I see your name appear every time someone has the audacity to talk down a Klitschko brother. Maybe it is you that is incapable of being impartial, always leaping to their defence. Are you German?

Seems you're just as incapable of impartiality or objectivity when it comes to haye, Manos. At least I recognise that Wlad has the tools to win whereas you dismiss Haye's chances completely out of hand. Don't partcularly want this to disintergrate into a slanging match but it's a bit rich levelling accusations re objectivity around whe you are certainly as guilty if not more so than me!

Fists, you do realise that agreeing with me will A/ Damage your standing on the boards irrepairably and B/ Perhaps even worse, lead to suggestions that you're my alias or vice versa

I think we're over complicating matters. It is a shoot out. Whoever gets a reasonable dig in first is going to put the other guy in all sorts.

Given Wlad's cautious approach, size advantage and better defensive skills, all the logic points to a win for him.

Where I have said Haye cant win? I have outlined plenty of ways he can win on other threads and have never dismissed his chances whatsoever.

The issue isnt even about who can win, its about who is proven.

I fail to see any posible way Wlad has more to prove than Haye. Hes clearly the higher rated and more established heavyweight. Haye has done little at heavyweight.

Virtually everything DAVE667 writes is from an anit Klitschko perspective and I just dont see how all the question marks being levelled at Wlad do not apply to Haye in a greater capacity.

DAVE667 wrote:Fists, you do realise that agreeing with me will A/ Damage your standing on the boards irrepairably and B/ Perhaps even worse, lead to suggestions that you're my alias or vice versa

Or, even worse, I could be labelled a butt licker...

Wlad is the more established, but I can see why someone would question Wlad because of the frailties he has shown in the past (although long ago now). Haven't faced anything like each other really, but I put Wlad as favourite.

How can anyone take Steward seriously after this :

“Tyson Fury will be the next superstar dominant heavyweight much along the lines as Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko. The way that he’s progressing now, I believe he can maybe be the complete package in the heavyweight division because of his talent. I think he can be a tremendous shot in the arm for the heavyweight division in the future.”

Fists of Fury wrote:On the contrary Manos, I see your name appear every time someone has the audacity to talk down a Klitschko brother. Maybe it is you that is incapable of being impartial, always leaping to their defence. Are you German?

No. Born in Kazakhstan but grew up in Ukraine.

Makes sense

I have to agree with Manos on this one. I had exactly the same argument with Dave on the old 606 where pretty much every doubt and reason he was putting across for why Klitschko would lose could actually be levelled at Haye, but to a greater extent. I'm not trying to stir the pot either as completely disagreed with some of Manos's comments yesterday( incidentally the Birtish boxing board have refused to sanction an immediate re-match for Groves and Degale).

Pekchenko wrote:I have to agree with Manos on this one. I had exactly the same argument with Dave on the old 606 where pretty much every doubt and reason he was putting across for why Klitschko would lose could actually be levelled at Haye, but to a greater extent. I'm not trying to stir the pot either as completely disagreed with some of Manos's comments yesterday( incidentally the Birtish boxing board have refused to sanction an immediate re-match for Groves and Degale).

Yeah but how long before they install DeGale as mandatory for Groves I wonder?

I'm no fan of Wlad, he's far too safety conscious but to me, also lacking other facets of his game to hold my interest. Floyd's guilty of being dull but the man has more than one string to his bow.

Haye hit's Wlad, Wlad goes over, Wlad hits Haye, Haye goes over. Where have I said differently? They both have form for it so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this fight ends with Wlad flat on his back, is it? I fail to see how that makes me a vehement anti-Wladist (new phrase I just made up) Of course, Vitali is another kettle of fish, Haye hits him, Vitali smiles and says "let's have it."

Back when Wlad fought Chagaev after the original Haye fight fell through, Wlad had his man on the ropes at the end and his only combo was jab, right cross. No hooks, no uppercuts, no variety and this was against a static opponent and only two years ago.

Anyway, I'm sure you're all as bored of the same old, same old as I am so let's draw a line under it.

I expect Wlad to fight his usual safety first approach. I think he will trouble Haye many times, but back off rather than go in for KO. Could well go 12 rounds with Haye taking alot of punishment and looking like Shannon Briggs after the Vitali fight. Hopefully David gets a chance to trouble Wlad, as his only thought then would be a stoppage.

Sport and Fitness Challenges

This will be a stoppage fight pure and simple. I actually Wlad being even more gun shy than usual and trying to hide behind his jab, then unleashing a barrage when he can.

Haye in 6. I've just got this feeling...