Federer defined by defeat

First topic message reminder :

Amid the glorious victories, the endless number of Grand Slam wins, the numerous titles and the record weeks at number one, it's one of sport's great ironies that Roger Federer may be best remembered for....two defeats.
  Yet the five-set epic with Rafa at Wimbledon in 2008 and this latest roller-coaster with Djoko have been particularly defining. They have showed the great player fighting back against seemingly impossible odds, glimpsing a great victory and then, ultimately, having to settle for heartache and the runner-up slot.
  Previously Johnny Mac had the same experience when he lost the famous "tiebreak final" to Borg in 1980. Mac says people still come up to him and talk about that "win" for him, forcing him to tell them that, actually, it was Bjorn that emerged victorious.
  Similarly, Steve Davies, although initially "gutted" at his blackball final-frame defeat by Denis Taylor in the 1985 world snooker final, eventually came to the realisation that he'd been part of a great match.
  Some of the American newspaper today have spoken of the latest Fed defeat actually enhancing his legend and you can see why. Snooker champion Terry Griffiths once, movingly, spoke of there being "great beauty in defeat". Sometimes there is.

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I think in terms of love, I think Andre Agassi's last match in 2006 at the US Open was the most outpouring of love and affection for a retiring player I had ever seen.

Agassi was unusually eloquent for a tennis player and there wan't a dry eye in the house after that speech. People really responded to his evident passion and emotional intelligence.

It's weird when you think about it. When you look at the American players in the past, there was something that drew people to him. My mum loved Agassi and sobbed when he gave that speech.

I agree with the emotional intelligence part. Especially when you red how he felt on that final day in his book.

Yup. It was evident anyway. I heard him commentate for the USO once and he was awesome - really insightful. I guess he'll never be asked back for that sort of gig after the meth admission.

Well I hope that isn't the reason why he hasn't had a commentating gig since.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I think in terms of love, I think Andre Agassi's last match in 2006 at the US Open was the most outpouring of love and affection for a retiring player I had ever seen.

Agassi was unusually eloquent for a tennis player and there wan't a dry eye in the house after that speech. People really responded to his evident passion and emotional intelligence.

It's weird when you think about it. When you look at the American players in the past, there was something that drew people to him. My mum loved Agassi and sobbed when he gave that speech.

I agree with the emotional intelligence part. Especially when you red how he felt on that final day in his book.

Yup. It was evident anyway. I heard him commentate for the USO once and he was awesome - really insightful. I guess he'll never be asked back for that sort of gig after the meth admission.

Well I hope that isn't the reason why he hasn't had a commentating gig since.

It's the States - far too puritanical to allow a self-avowed drug abuser to hold any hallowed media position.

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I think in terms of love, I think Andre Agassi's last match in 2006 at the US Open was the most outpouring of love and affection for a retiring player I had ever seen.

Agassi was unusually eloquent for a tennis player and there wan't a dry eye in the house after that speech. People really responded to his evident passion and emotional intelligence.

It's weird when you think about it. When you look at the American players in the past, there was something that drew people to him. My mum loved Agassi and sobbed when he gave that speech.

I agree with the emotional intelligence part. Especially when you red how he felt on that final day in his book.

Yup. It was evident anyway. I heard him commentate for the USO once and he was awesome - really insightful. I guess he'll never be asked back for that sort of gig after the meth admission.

Well I hope that isn't the reason why he hasn't had a commentating gig since.

It's the States - far too puritanical to allow a self-avowed drug abuser to hold any hallowed media position.

Dang it!

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

reckoner wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I think in terms of love, I think Andre Agassi's last match in 2006 at the US Open was the most outpouring of love and affection for a retiring player I had ever seen.

Agassi was unusually eloquent for a tennis player and there wan't a dry eye in the house after that speech. People really responded to his evident passion and emotional intelligence.

It's weird when you think about it. When you look at the American players in the past, there was something that drew people to him. My mum loved Agassi and sobbed when he gave that speech.

I agree with the emotional intelligence part. Especially when you red how he felt on that final day in his book.

Yup. It was evident anyway. I heard him commentate for the USO once and he was awesome - really insightful. I guess he'll never be asked back for that sort of gig after the meth admission.

Well I hope that isn't the reason why he hasn't had a commentating gig since.

It's the States - far too puritanical to allow a self-avowed drug abuser to hold any hallowed media position.

Dang it!

If it's any consolation he likely made the admission in the first place to stick two fingers up and show his complete lack of interest in joining the circus.

Is anyone watching the Lance Lie?

Re best loved sportsman currently... I think Roger Federer will be an extremely strong contender for a ' current best loved sportsman globally'... I have seen some of the comments about golfers , racers....

Roger Federer is the best recognised and most popular sportsman in India, China and large swathes of the Middle East, and Africa, that's over three billion people there out of a total world population of 6 billion.

federer is tennis

naxroy wrote:federer is tennis

Chazz Michael Michaels IS figure skating.

that was the mood more or less yes

Thanks for all the posts. Others have expressed more eloquently than me the emotions of being, and following, Federer. Of course, he'll be gutted by the "glorious defeats" he suffered and, of course, he'll not enjoy his tennis half as much if he's not winning more, many more, matches than he's losing.
Hopefully, the Fed career will go on for a while yet. No doubt new heroes will emerge. But he's clearly going to be a tough act to follow. Although no one is bigger than the sport, his departing from the playing side of it will leave a huge gap.

Hi there sfp, just thought this might be a good place to follow up on a brief mention you made (albeit on another thread I believe) of a piece written by Simon Barnes in The Times yesterday.

I'm not a Times reader by habit but decided to buy a hard copy yesterday based on your post. The article by Barnes was indeed a very impressive piece of writing. Worth the money alone ! It was centred on Federer and the quality of performance even in defeat, but Djokovic received due credit too because it was also about the contribution made by both players to a magnificent contest. And much more than that .......it was about tennis at the highest level, and about the enduring capacity of sport to produce unique experiences and memories within us, as observers of its special moments.

Thanks for the tip  

Lags72 - pleased you enjoyed the Simon Barnes piece in The Times. I would recommend Barnes to everyone. He writes beautifully about sport, recognising that it means so much to so many and yet, in the scheme of things, it is just a pastime.
  He writes about how sport brings out character (how the Victorians loved that) and helps people deal with victory and defeat. He writes about the uplifting, inspiring, thrilling nature of sport - its effect on those who play it and the emotions of those who watch it.  
  There's some good colour pieces about sport at the moment. The American writers are particularly good and you can Google News them at any time. Sometimes you just wish you could write as eloquently as they do.

I wasn't able to buy a copy.

Is anyone able to post some of the highlights please?

alas Mr Barnes will not be writing any more for The Times (although no doubt he will crop up elsewhere)
see link below

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jun/27/thetimes-national-newspapers

HMM - I was hoping to do some sort of cut & paste job for you, but unfortunately no joy, despite my best efforts. I was armed with a scanner, iPad and hard copy of the article but I think the missing items were a PC and a digital version of the piece. Sorry   

You can get immediate access, if keen, via a £1 trial sub, but just remember to cancel if you don't want to be paying a monthly sub.

But is he loved though? Obviously well liked, heavily respected, and such. But does he have the pure, almost manic adulation given to Tendulkar?

No one has yet adressed the (to my mind) incredible fact that Federer has lost nearly all the 'classics'. It pains me because Federer was my favourite player to watch, but I have to admit that when the going got tough, and the other player was playing a high level, Federer was unable to produce the goods. An unfortunate blot on his career and an argument to bolster the weak era theory.

In my opinion, Federer is not a good strategist and this is one reason for this bad record. For example, in Wim 2008 he won sets 3 and 4 without breaking Nadals serve. In the 5th set there is no tie break so he would have to break serve. Why couldn't he break Nadal's serve- mainly because he stubbornly refused to move around his backhand on the return even though Nadal hit virtually every serve to his backhand.

Djokovic served nearly second every serve to the Fed backhand on Sunday, Fed ran around plenty without success. Attacking the Fed backhand was a simple, almost childish tactic, but let's not pretend the solution was equally simple

kingraf wrote:But is he loved though? Obviously well liked, heavily respected, and such. But does he have the pure, almost manic adulation given to Tendulkar?  

It was one helluva Love-In when he went to South America .......

"South America loves Federer, and he loves it back"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/sports/tennis/20iht-tennis20.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Do you want to compare with what happens when Tendulkar appears anywhere in public, in India?

In any case, people get star struck. Simple as. Boxing is at this point, nothing more than a fringe sport in South Africa, but Floyd Mayweather arrived to the sort of welcome I think the Beatles got from teenage girls when he arrived here.

I'm aware of the adulation Tendulkar receives in India, but of course the difference is that tennis in general, and Federer in particular, enjoy a much wider popularity around the globe.

Incidentally, Nick Bollettieri appears a hard man to please, writing of Federer in the wake of the Wimbledon final defeat - "It was a hugely disappointing end to a tournament in what has been a disappointing year so far for Federer"
Gawd knows what he would have made of Federer's form LAST year if he thinks this year - 40 wins, six finals, two wins over the now number one - has been disappointing.

Ah good old Nick B ......he is indeed a tough guy to please, although in fairness I guess he tends to continue to judge Federer by the mercurial standards of his younger days.


Federer has eight losses to his name so far this year - which happens to be the same number as reigning AO Champ Wawrinka and perennial RF Champ Rafa. Murray has lost twelve. Only the World No.1 has lost fewer, at just four. 


It's tough at the top...... 

Fed's 40 wins this year ( he only won 45 in the whole of 2013) take him to a career total of 963 and in striking distance of the 1,000 mark.
Only two guys have reached this - Connors (light years ahead at something like 1,250) and Lendl. So it would be some achievement and there seems little doubt that he will get there. Who else might? Well, Rafa for one, and possibly Djoko. May be nobody else at the moment.

Connors' longevity was pretty much unique, but he seemed strangely reticent - uncomfortable almost - in accepting any plaudits when the topic was raised during his visit to this Wimbledon just gone. 

Jimbo could be far from endearing in his peak playing days (witness his refusal to attend the ceremonial parade of past Champions back in the 70's) but has become charm personified in his dotage.

Kingraf there is a difference between manic adulation and global popularity. I hope you aren't arguing that Tendulkar is more popular than Federer, globally! Cricket is a niche sport, Tennis is a global one.

Think we can safely say he wasn't attempting to make such a claim.

I suspect that Tendulkar  - idolised though he is in India - could safely stroll along the Champs Élysées in Paris or 9 de Julio in Buenos Aires with barely a flicker of recognition.

Whereas, in contrast  ...........

Yes lags. In fact Maria Sharapova went Sachin Who when asked about him. He was in the Royal Box when she was playing.

kingraf wrote:But is he loved though? Obviously well liked, heavily respected, and such. But does he have the pure, almost manic adulation given to Tendulkar?  

One Great met another Great at MC. Tendulkar follows Federer quite a bit.

coolpixel wrote:Re best loved sportsman currently... I think Roger Federer will be an extremely strong contender for a  ' current best loved sportsman globally'... I have seen some of the comments about  golfers , racers....

Roger Federer is the best recognised and most popular sportsman in India, China and large swathes of the Middle East, and Africa, that's over three billion people there out of a total world population of 6 billion.

+1 , you forgot Europe and South America, Federer's popularity in Argentina is as big as some native Footballers, Maradonna might get the edge otherwise he is on equal terms at popularity incomparison to native stars.