Why should Manny/May fight hard fights all the time ????

Notice some are moaning about Manny's new opponent...........I'm not....

The guy is a world champion like it or not..........and If World champion was an easy title to get...You'd have more than one or two over here !!

Maidana was a world champion who'd beaten a top 15 p4per in his last fight......Most fighters would have loved his scalp post-Broner...

Manny-May etc are "fighters" they should be regarded with other fighters and not forced to have to fight "special competitions..."

It's called the P4P list..............There isn't a "Great p4p list" with two fighters on it !! Hence Mayweather, Manny etc are to be judged with their contemporaries...........Why should they be treated differently.....Why should they fight better opponents..

If Hagler had given up the middle and fought Leslie stewart in 87 would people be moaning he's picked on a weak alphabet champ.......No would they hell..........Hagler would have needed ambition for that though !!

Never been a time in recent history  1940-present where a Champion has consistently fought the best out there and not had easy scraps.........Ali-Coopman, Bugner, Evangelista...........Holmes fought two/three decent guys in his whole reign and ducked Page for the IBF.......Look at Honey's reign...............Beat one welter in three defences....and Duff admitted ducking Breland..

All this is conveniently forgotten...Even Curry beat Larocca, Stafford and Rodriguez...

If Curry had moved up pre-Honey and took on Duane Thomas do we burn him for cherrypicking...No.. !!

No reason the greats of today should fight hard fights all the time..............After all why break with tradition !!

If a guy is a world champion then he's a legitimate opponent for anybody........and when they are so easy to win that Britain can manage a few....

Then moan about the elite fighters opposition then.....

Mayweather - Manny are good enough to grace any era and be succesful....................Get over it !! and that's what it's all about...

Sorry to tell you this but Mayweather/Manny beat Canzoneri all day and every day........It hurts doesn't it..I know !!

Mayweather/Manny won't be around much longer ....My advice enjoy them while you can....

Because there is sack all coming up to replace them..

Should they fight tough fights all the time..............Nope.......

They're supposed to be the cream of the crop Truss and they've denied the fans the one fight they've been clamouring for.

The biggest problem (I think Chris alluded to it) is that due to the various factions in boxing, the pool of opponents is getting smaller (especially for Pac).

People are getting bored/sick of seeing them walk over opponents that are sometimes seen as nothing more than a moneymaker for either fighter. We sometimes forget that these days boxing isn't about proving your the best it's about how much money you can make (and then lose later

Personally I'd like to see the pair of them retire as I'm not sure they're adding much to the sport anymore other than to get everyone arguing. Or failing that i'd love for one or the other to hold a press conference stating they've got a contract to fight each other, purse is split 40/40 (or 30/30) with the remaining pot going to the winner. Then we can see who'll twist in the wind.

Good article Truss, agree with it completely.

All you have to do now is take your finger of the ..................

Derbymanc wrote:They're supposed to be the cream of the crop Truss and they've denied the fans the one fight they've been clamouring for.

The biggest problem (I think Chris alluded to it) is that due to the various factions in boxing, the pool of opponents is getting smaller (especially for Pac).

People are getting bored/sick of seeing them walk over opponents that are sometimes seen as nothing more than a moneymaker for either fighter. We sometimes forget that these days boxing isn't about proving your the best it's about how much money you can make (and then lose later

Personally I'd like to see the pair of them retire as I'm not sure they're adding much to the sport anymore other than to get everyone arguing. Or failing that i'd love for one or the other to hold a press conference stating they've got a contract to fight each other, purse is split 40/40 (or 30/30) with the remaining pot going to the winner. Then we can see who'll twist in the wind.

I was clamoring for Holmes-Page............Hagler-Hearns 2.............In the past.....Dempsey-Langford.............Fitz-Corbett 2.....

History is littered with great fights that weren't made.

S**t happens...............But those fighters get a free ride........

We have one poster on here who say's Mayweather can't be top 10 because of cherrypicking and has Jack Johnson at 7...

Shows you what bollox it is....and the old hags on here know it..

Heard Van Halen's Why can't this be love on the radio to work...........One of my favorite songs and I'd forgotten about it for years....

Certainly going to be on my list for the gym later..Good stuff..

wrong thread...oops.

If they are charging $70 to view their fight (granted it's u.s. Market that are getting ripped off), then the product they are selling should be of a certain standard.

I get what your saying Truss, but just because other people didn't do it doesn't mean Manny and Floyd shouldn't.

Your reasoning as to why they don't is sound but they should, the same way that Hagler/Hearns 2 should have been made.

And as Jim said too, Your paying a certain price for something then you should be getting the quality (The saying is 'you get what you pay for'

It doesn't help with the way some of the rankings are all over the place too. It's enough to drive you nuts

jimdig wrote:If they are charging $70 to view their fight (granted it's u.s. Market that are getting ripped off), then the product they are selling should be of a certain standard.

If people are buying it in sufficient numbers......Then they must think it is..

For $32 million a fight, I want Mayweather to give his all. The guy genuinely believes he's above the likes of Ali and Robinson but, in the eyes of many, has never pushed himself to the extent that those two did in their quest to be recognized as the best fighters who ever lived. For all, Ali's "gimmes" you cannot deny that, despite mixed results, he took on the best guys available. Some will criticize him for avoiding a rematch with Foreman (usually those who would have soiled themselves at the prospect of stepping in the ring with George even once) however, getting in with the likes of Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Norton and even Holmes when he knew his skills had all but gone demonstrates a willing to push the envelope that little bit further than the average guy. Robinson's tilt at the LH crown way waaaay past his prime is another example of a man willing to do more and go further than people think possible and whilst there's no doubting Mayweather's skill, there always appears to be an element of, shall we say CAUTION, about him and his willingness to see what he's capable of.

Floyd's method of proving he's the best ever appears to consist of him telling us he's the best ever, expecting us to accept this before he shouts about having another car worth a small fortune and tweeting pictures of his money.

If he was to proclaim himself the best of his era, I wouldn't have too many gripes but it's the fact he wants to be ranked alongside (or even above) Ali and Robinson yet hasn't yet given us a fight that ranks alongside the best those two ever managed.

THAT'S why, IMO, he shouldn't have easy fights.

Feel free to disagree, all opinions welcome...ps Van Halen suck.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

jimdig wrote:If they are charging $70 to view their fight (granted it's u.s. Market that are getting ripped off), then the product they are selling should be of a certain standard.

If people are buying it in sufficient numbers......Then they must think it is..

A fool and his money....

Truss is right that its always happened. Personally, i don't have a particular beef whoever they choose to fight... But I do reserve the right to be interested or not.

I think also that manny and floyd are coming to the end of their careers so to us the fan, any fight that doesn't get the juices flowing feels like a missed opportunity.

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

jimdig wrote:If they are charging $70 to view their fight (granted it's u.s. Market that are getting ripped off), then the product they are selling should be of a certain standard.

If people are buying it in sufficient numbers......Then they must think it is..

A fool and his money....

Some people enjoy watching great craftsman showing their great talent..........You obviously prefer rough and ready types swinging roundhouses Mate.............Whatever turns people on......

People like me are...

Called "Purists" Dave.............Amongst other things on here.

Especially If Jabby is logged on..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

jimdig wrote:If they are charging $70 to view their fight (granted it's u.s. Market that are getting ripped off), then the product they are selling should be of a certain standard.

If people are buying it in sufficient numbers......Then they must think it is..

A fool and his money....

Some people enjoy watching great craftsman showing their great talent..........You obviously prefer rough and ready types swinging roundhouses Mate.............Whatever turns people on......

People like me are...

Called "Purists" Dave.............Amongst other things on here.

Especially If Jabby is logged on..

You don't buy a tickets for Sinatra and expect him to sing "The Wheels on the Bus" though. You wouldn't sit watching Rembrandt painting stick figures or paint by numbers. Mayweather often admits he only brought C or D game. If he's claiming that he's the greatest ever, why isn't he fighting someone who'll ring out the best in him and start giving people real value for money?

If you're right why is he the top draw in the sport ??

Used to be a big Floyd fan and certainly appreciate his skills. Problem I have with him is, I would like him to test his skills against Manny. Both fighters are past there prime but there is still no bigger fight out there.

If they don't fight each other soon, I think they should retire.

While they are making millions a fight.....Won't happen !!

The problem with Arum going by his KO interviews of the past...Is it's all about the deal and bragging he screwed people over on it....

Mayweather is just as stubborn.............Arum won't take 40/60 because he can't brag about the deal..

Mayweather thinks he's worth 60/40...........and is just as stubborn...

Not all Mayweather however much it's painted to be on here..

Mayweather has never been outclassed like Manny by JMM.........He's the American in America..

He brings more to the table..

Dave, i think frank would have done a decent version of 'wheels on the bus'

Oh look, Truss is comparing apples and chalkboards again.

Times have changed Trussman, you can't say that just because something happened in the past its directly relevant to the way things are today, no matter how hard you try to slate Hagler.

Essentially, Manny is WBO Champion, he should be fighting #1 ranked contenders or looking to unify. He's well past the stage where he needs to pad his record, he needs legacy defining fights, as does Mayweather.

I think it was summed up beautifully by Milky when he said "Personally, i don't have a particular beef whoever they choose to fight... But I do reserve the right to be interested or not."

Thats exactly how I feel. I know how good they both are, i know that the majority of fights made are for money - but the only fight they could have that would interest me is with each other.

Of course it's relevant...........

People accuse the fighters of today of things that used to happen in the past..

Only in the past fighters weren't marked down for it..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If you're right why is he the top draw in the sport ??

Very good marketing...and also lots of people want to see Floyd punched repeatedly in the face. Reasons why Ali, Naz and Eubank were also so popular (aside from their ability)

Anyway, isn't it Floyd who says "You wanna be great, do great things" (it's good but "great" well, it's a matter of opinion)

but in any case FLOYDY, you wanna get paid, earn my f*cking money, b!tch! Someone wants to pay to see a glorified sparring session, that's their business

Very good marketing............

Knew there was a reason for it........

Shame Peter Buckley didn't have the same PR agency........He could be selling tons of PPV..

"Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention....."

DAVE667 wrote:"Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention....."

Stick to posts like this........First time you've made any sense all morning...  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course it's relevant...........

People accuse the fighters of today of things that used to happen in the past..

Only in the past fighters weren't marked down for it..

It wasn't ok then, and it isn't ok now - however the fighters you mentioned had exceptional careers defined pretty much by facing the best at some point. Its hardly as if we're talking about a Hagler who avoided Leonard or Hearns.

All we have, is the ability to express our displeasure now, we can say "well X didn't fight y" until we're red in the face, but the reality is, pacquiao and Mayweather are around NOW so we're always going to be more critical. You think in 20 years people will still be saying the things they do now with the level of vitrol? Not at all.

People weren't saying the things then about Hagler or Holmes which is my point..

Fans are overly critical now compared to the past....

As you'd know If you were around then..

As for 20 years from now who knows what people will say the World moves on and changes !!..

.......All I know is that I'm going to be the sexiest Grandpa/Great Grandpa about....

That's If My Son ever leaves the house and get himself some action...

Offered to go to a nightclub with him......For some reason he's vetoed that idea !!  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People weren't saying the things then about Hagler or Holmes which is my point..

Fans are overly critical now compared to the past....

As you'd know If you were around then..

As for 20 years from now who knows what people will say the World moves on and changes !!..

.......All I know is that I'm going to be the sexiest Grandpa/Great Grandpa about....

That's If My Son ever leaves the house and get himself some action...

Offered to go to a nightclub with him......For some reason he's vetoed that idea !!  

Taking your boy to the Oyster is hardly the best way to ensure you'll be a grandfather

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People weren't saying the things then about Hagler or Holmes which is my point..

Fans are overly critical now compared to the past....

As you'd know If you were around then..

As for 20 years from now who knows what people will say the World moves on and changes !!..

.......All I know is that I'm going to be the sexiest Grandpa/Great Grandpa about....

That's If My Son ever leaves the house and get himself some action...

Offered to go to a nightclub with him......For some reason he's vetoed that idea !!  

Taking your boy to the Oyster is hardly the best way to ensure you'll be a grandfather

I want him to be well rounded !!  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People weren't saying the things then about Hagler or Holmes which is my point..

Fans are overly critical now compared to the past....

As you'd know If you were around then..

As for 20 years from now who knows what people will say the World moves on and changes !!..

.......All I know is that I'm going to be the sexiest Grandpa/Great Grandpa about....

That's If My Son ever leaves the house and get himself some action...

Offered to go to a nightclub with him......For some reason he's vetoed that idea !!  

Taking your boy to the Oyster is hardly the best way to ensure you'll be a grandfather

I want him to be well rounded !!  

His bunghole certainly will be

UFC make great match ups all the time. Why can't boxers?

Its a real shame Manny/Floyd can not be made and I don't care for the reasons.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:UFC make great match ups all the time. Why can't boxers?

Its a real shame Manny/Floyd can not be made and I don't care for the reasons.

Well that's then isn't it !!  

When was the last time either took on the opponent that was universally or by consensus accepted as being the hardest fight available. Potentially Floyd vs Alvarez fits the bill. There is a world of difference between not always taking on the toughest fights and never taking on the toughest fights.

Answered your own question.....

Even then Alvarez was overrated afterwards..

Not by me, most gave him credit for taking on a tough opponent in the division he is not comfortable in. Even if we dismiss the opinions of those who refuse to give them any credit, that still is one opponent between two fights in what? Their last 10, 15, 20 fights.

Each to their own but if they want to be considered for the top ten as some fans want to argue these are the standards they have to be considered by. There is no colour line now, there is no mob influence, the only impediment to fighters taking on the best is them now choosing to do so. I don't give a flying one either way, the point at which Manny or Floyd engaged my attention has long since passed, but you can't have your cake and eat it.

I used to think Floyd was top 10. I don't rate him top 10 now. I don't rate Manny top 25

I don't understand the view that because it's done in the past we should just accept it now. If that was the case we'd all still be living in mud huts

Rowley wrote:Not by me, most gave him credit for taking on a tough opponent in the division he is not comfortable in. Even if we dismiss the opinions of those who refuse to give them any credit, that still is one opponent between two fights in what? Their last 10, 15, 20 fights.

Each to their own but if they want to be considered for the top ten as some fans want to argue these are the standards they have to be considered by. There is no colour line now, there is no mob influence, the only impediment to fighters taking on the best is them now choosing to do so. I don't give a flying one either way, the point at which Manny or Floyd engaged my attention has long since passed, but you can't have your cake and eat it.

Joe Louis is in most top 10s..

Mosley, JMM, Cotto, Guerrero and Alvarez are all crap are they !!

Take those rose glasses off Mate..

Derbymanc wrote:I don't understand the view that because it's done in the past we should just accept it now. If that was the case we'd all still be living in mud huts

Who holds that view...

Never said it was right or wrong...............Saying If you are going to hold them to account...Hold the oldies...

Every fighter in history has had easy fights..Manny is fighting a fellow world champion...

How many Brit champions are there....If this guy is a patsy !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Mosley, JMM, Cotto, Guerrero and Alvarez are all crap are they !!

An argument everyone on here gets sick of me making.

Because it sucks..

I have literally no idea what you are talking about at this point.

A lot of people have said they should be holden to it as well, you've ignored that and tried to justify the easy fights stating that that's how it was done in the past.

Bringing the Brits into it is you trying to swerve an argument you've got a good chance of losing.

To nick a catchphrase

'IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY BRITS THEIR ARE'

It's an easy fight that shouldn't be happening.

You should instead be asking why boxing as a sport and the fans of both men aren't screaming for the bout of the century to take place.

As another aside, I think it was Dave that said the reason some of the golden oldies get a bit more of a pass is because when the truly big fights came up more times than not they got it on.

In 20 years time it may not be an issue but right now a lot of fans won't accept either due to that one fact. If Floyd really thinks he's the best then put his money where his mouth is and vice versa.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Oh look, Truss is comparing apples and chalkboards again..

Interesting line...First time I've seen or heard it...

Must of led a sheltered life...

Derbymanc wrote:

In 20 years time it may not be an issue but right now a lot of fans won't accept either due to that one fact. If Floyd really thinks he's the best then put his money where his mouth is and vice versa.

Baloney......................JMM hammered Manny after Floyd and Alvarez was number 1 at the weight.............Hagler beat Hearns and who else ??

Only fans sounding off are the old timers who think Jesse Owens hammers Usain Bolt.....

Guys that get more bitter with age.....

Me I think and look ten years younger than I am.........and always will............   

Rowley wrote:I have literally no idea what you are talking about at this point.

Neither do I.....But I'm hiding it well...  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Me I think and look ten years younger than I am.........and always will............   

A plump face is always less likely to wrinkle.

You don't add much do you...

Pretty pointless these days..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:I don't understand the view that because it's done in the past we should just accept it now. If that was the case we'd all still be living in mud huts

Who holds that view...

Never said it was right or wrong...............Saying If you are going to hold them to account...Hold the oldies...

Every fighter in history has had easy fights..Manny is fighting a fellow world champion...

How many Brit champions are there....If this guy is a patsy !!

Fact is that, as of a few months ago, Manny's stock had fallen sharply. He was considered way past his best and said to have one foot out the door and into politics. After a bad KO loss to JMM, he was always going to be on the rebuild and whilst his opponent is no mug, he's not of the calibre we've come to expect from Manny (although cynics might suggest otherwise).

However, for me, the MAIN difference between Floyd and Manny is that only one of them spends his time spouting off about how he's the greatest fighter that has ever been and blah blah blah. Now, whether that's true or not is down to personal preference but Mayweather has failed to provide the public with a fight that can be placed up there with the very best and, for someone who claims to be the very best fighter, his fights are, for the main, an exercise in mediocrity.

I don't expect a fully paid up member of the Mayweather Member Munchers society to view this favourably but that's how it is I'm afraid

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You don't add much do you...

Pretty pointless these days..

When I read something new it might make me think..................

That's right he should go to war with someone like Hagler and Hearns...Instead of showing his gifts....

Joe Louis was in some real barnstormers.....

Don't have to be a muncher to see how absurd your argument is..

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You don't add much do you...

Pretty pointless these days..

When I read something new it might make me think..................

Well write something or do us all a favor and..................