England vs India - Second Test - Lords

First topic message reminder :

Seeming as we have such a short turnaround thought I'd stick up a thread

England have added Simon Kerrigan to the squad interestingly. I'd imagine he must be in serious contention, or else what's the point of adding another body?

Scrumpy wrote:

GSC wrote:Whos a realistic option to step in?

I share the same view as Boycott on that one, it's irrelevant when talking about whether Cook should stay as Captain.

Sounds like a superb idea. Right we've dropped Cook as captain, now who's his replacement? ....Oh drat!

Duty281 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

GSC wrote:Whos a realistic option to step in?

I share the same view as Boycott on that one, it's irrelevant when talking about whether Cook should stay as Captain.

Sounds like a superb idea. Right we've dropped Cook as captain, now who's his replacement? ....Oh drat!

Bell's gone now. So that rules him out.

Ian Bell in his last 32 Test matches and 50 innings

Bell has only scored 4 hundreds.

3 of which came in 7 innings vs Australia in 2013 Ashes.

If Cook's getting close to the chop, why's Bell getting a free ride?

Root - time to step up again.. The perfect player to come in under these circumstances

Gerry SA wrote:Ian Bell in his last 32 Test matches and 50 innings

Bell has only scored 4 hundreds.

3 of which came in 7 innings vs Australia in 2013 Ashes.

If Cook's getting close to the chop, why's Bell getting a free ride?

I agree with you for once. but then every time I bash Bell he then proves me wrong next innings..

So Bell for the drop

 

The cupboards really are fairly bare for England. Tough position to be in. Think we'll just have to be patient in the coming years and maybe someone (in the current side) will step up to the mark or the ECB will have to take a punt on some CC player who has showed some promise by the end of this season (or next season). There doesn't seem to be a production line of hard edged batsmen or bowlers coming through though so it might be a longer wait until things look on the up again.

Someone contacted TMS and said bring in Chris Read to keep wicket and take the Captains roll for the remainder of the year.

Not the worst idea I've heard.

Was that Sidebottom in the crowd?

Massive edge. ffs

such a shame when is your most important player.. ce la ve.

time to step up the rest of them or we could be in serious trouble

What a howler. Days like this pretty much ridicules any decision to not play DRS.

Crazy!

Root wasn't out.

DRS should be used, if india don't like it then they don't have to use it for their home test matches.

GOOD Lad Ali- just smash them

Future captain dismissed. The noose is tightening... perhaps?

I hope Amla.... I mean Ali can hang around for a while.

(Yeah, yeah. I can see that Specsavers blimp!)  

India's stance on DRS looks more ridiculous by the day. There have been some shockers in this series against both sides. DRS isn't perfect but its better than this!

Fifty for Ballance   

Valuable , to say the least. Needs some good support now.

What does the indian commentators think about DRS?

mystiroakey wrote:What does the indian commentators think about DRS?

Some of Indian commentators, luring BCCI speaks in favor of removing DRS. I really don't like this stubborn attitude of BCCI, but again I am also against the way DRS is implemented in a match.
I think DRS should be there and it must be in the hands of umpire. If any howler visible third umpire should inform the on-field umpires regarding the decision.

Why? This way it relies on a team's judgement. The Indian twam's claim that DRS gives more decisions against them shows an illogical inability to understand how the system even works

125/4 at tea. Been tough ; India have bowled well.

Atherton (and other commentators) keep emphasizing how much better the Indian seamers have bowled than England's . Some truth in that (certainly Kumar has been excellent) ; but they are rather overlooking the fact that India were 145/7 shortly after tea...
I am sure the English bowlers recognize they could have done better , given the way the ball was zipping around yesterday ; but it wasn't all bad. Let us see how India fare as the day wears on .

there have been no howlers, no major controversies......a few borderline decisions that have been evened out.....and people understand that's within the human limits of errors

The real howlers and comedy show was when DRS was employed for example in Ashes....and there were howlers then...because of human errors in using technology or the way DRS rules are set-up.

If at all anything this series is an advertisement in " you really do not need DRS"

alfie wrote:125/4 at tea.   Been tough ; India have bowled well.

Atherton (and other commentators) keep emphasizing how much better the Indian seamers have bowled than England's .  Some truth in that (certainly Kumar has been excellent) ; but they are rather overlooking the fact that India were 145/7 shortly after tea...
I am sure the English bowlers recognize they could have done better , given the way the ball was zipping around yesterday ; but it wasn't all bad.   Let us see how India fare as the day wears on .

It's not in pieces but in totality that an innings matter else Idndia had Eng 207-7 in T1 also on a bland pitch.

Not just the seamers...the pitch that has some moisture offers more spin and there is bounce...so a quality spinner will be handy.

the 5th bowlers has also proved his worth....provided rest and rotation and invoked a chance .....straight catch through slip that WK/ first slip messed up.

India has not done anything exceptional...just played percentage cricket for the pitch and Eng were sub-par or "tried to be too cute" whichever way you look at it

KP fan- are you in India?

What do your commentators think about DRS?

Because as you should be aware- the rest of the world wants it. And there will come a time when we just dont play india any more unless they use it, irrespective of your opinions, which are valid enough, but so is everyone elses. This game has to be democratic. We all use it or we all dont. Every other test nation wants it!

KP_fan wrote:there have been no howlers, no major controversies......a few borderline decisions that have been evened out.....and people understand that's within the human limits of errors

The real howlers and comedy show was when DRS was employed for example in Ashes....and there were howlers then...because of human errors in using technology or the way DRS rules are set-up.

If at all anything this series is an advertisement in " you really do not need DRS"

Are you drunk? Prior? Borderline?

It's a genuine disgrace. There is no good reason to not use DRS. None. Sometimes it can be misused but that is not a flaw in the system

I thought some were in favour of it but are obviously careful in publicly saying so.
Can't remember who it was - Manjrekar or Bhogle? I'm sure KPF, msp or sk5 will correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Kumble is in favour of it as well as quite a few Ranji Trophy players.

I would also bet every single umpire in the world prefers DRS as well. As there is less pressure on them. This umpire is being shown up massively in this game.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:there have been no howlers, no major controversies......a few borderline decisions that have been evened out.....and people understand that's within the human limits of errors

The real howlers and comedy show was when DRS was employed for example in Ashes....and there were howlers then...because of human errors in using technology or the way DRS rules are set-up.

If at all anything this series is an advertisement in " you really do not need DRS"

Are you drunk? Prior? Borderline?

It's a genuine disgrace. There is no good reason to not use DRS. None. Sometimes it can be misused but that is not a flaw in the system

--disgrace was when Broad edged with a thick edge it flew almost to 2nd slip WK caught it and Broad still survived.

--and even umpteen times Hot-spot shows / doesn't show is a complete lottery was proven and snicko brought back

--the quality of umpiring has been good and decisions very reasonable.....the mistakes not more than when DRS is present.......
now it is justifiable....with DRS the similar levels of mistakes are unacceptable.

--In India......people see the point.....that DRS does not make a diffrence. They also see when Binny is two out of two times given out LBW wrongly....the brit commentators and fans jump in glee with statements like " your board doesn't want it now you suffer"...Indians don't complain.

an when a decision goes against Eng...they curse and threaten BCCI with " we will not play cricket with India"

in current times only India can realistically say " we will not include you in the group of countries that play with us"

[quote="KP_fan"

India has not done anything exceptional...just played percentage cricket for the pitch and Eng were sub-par or "tried to be too cute" whichever way you look at it[/quote]

I'd agree with that , KP f. They have generally played sensible cricket both here and at TB. Some credit to Dhoni ? Or Fletcher ?

mystiroakey wrote:KP fan- are you in India?

What do your commentators think about DRS?

Because as you should be aware- the rest of the world wants it. And there will come a time when we just dont play india any more unless they use it, irrespective of your opinions, which are valid enough, but so is everyone elses. This game has to be democratic. We all use it or we all dont. Every other test nation wants it!

Its worthless arguing against an Indian fan regarding DRS, as the decision is taken by BCCI, not by any individual. Many Indians including me too want DRS to be implemented but yup as KPF mentioned there were human errors handling DRS Back in Ashes. I think we must have a separate thread discussing DRS.

And regarding not playing against India, every time when it comes to voting there is no proper mandate qualifying DRS to be applied in all international matches.

Should have not used up their referrals, should they? And Briad edged it to the keeper, if you actually recall, he fumbled it to 2 nd slip

alfie wrote:[quote="KP_fan"

India has not done anything exceptional...just played percentage cricket for the pitch and Eng were sub-par or "tried to be too cute" whichever way you look at it

I'd agree with that , KP f.  They have generally played sensible cricket both here and at TB.  Some credit to Dhoni ?  Or Fletcher ?[/quote]

I am not too quick in giving credit to Dhoni....he has same bad elements in his DNA like Cook and can any time allow the opposition to get away.
get me a lead first... 70 odd is a par lead given match situation...and show me you can sustain commonsense over the test Dhoni before I credit you

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:KP fan- are you in India?

What do your commentators think about DRS?

Because as you should be aware- the rest of the world wants it. And there will come a time when we just dont play india any more unless they use it, irrespective of your opinions, which are valid enough, but so is everyone elses. This game has to be democratic. We all use it or we all dont. Every other test nation wants it!

Its worthless arguing against an Indian fan regarding DRS, as the decision is taken by BCCI, not by any individual. Many Indians including me too want DRS to be implemented but yup as KPF mentioned there were human errors handling DRS Back in Ashes. I think we must have a separate thread discussing DRS.

And regarding not playing against India, every time when it comes to voting there is no proper mandate qualifying DRS to be applied in all international matches.

I am not arguing- just explaining. Thats the reality. the world wants it bar one country and yes Indians dont have to just follow the BCCI like sheep.

You can have an opinion that is against them. Its not against the law. Its a very normal thing in most countries(to critize your own)

ChequeredJersey wrote:Should have not used up their referrals, should they?

that is a part of the fallacy...human smartness and luck comes in...in using DRS
you should not be smart to buy a ticket from vending machines......every one should be able to put a coin in and get a ticket out.
every bad decision must be uniformly overturned.

Fallacy No.2 is this business of sometimes hitting part of the stumps is out ( if ump called so) and at otehr times it is not

make up your mind ICC......hitting part of the stumps  is out or not out...but be uniform

Fix these two fallacies.......and India will be 70% in agreement on DRS
remaining 30% are commercial / competitive /  revenue sharing / royalty issues between DRS and BCCI.
It seems they have offered commercial incentives to certain boards and left out India

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:[quote="KP_fan"

India has not done anything exceptional...just played percentage cricket for the pitch and Eng were sub-par or "tried to be too cute" whichever way you look at it

I'd agree with that , KP f.  They have generally played sensible cricket both here and at TB.  Some credit to Dhoni ?  Or Fletcher ?

I am not too quick in giving credit to Dhoni....he has same bad elements in his DNA like Cook and can any time allow the opposition to get away.
get me a lead first... 70 odd is a par lead given match situation...and show me you can sustain commonsense over the test Dhoni before I credit you[/quote]

Haha , KP f ...I was setting that up for you to bite on the Dhoni praise . You didn't disappoint   

Linebreaker wrote:I thought some were in favour of it but are obviously careful in publicly saying so.
Can't remember who it was - Manjrekar or Bhogle? I'm sure KPF, msp or sk5 will correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Kumble is in favour of it as well as quite a few Ranji Trophy players.

Most of the Indian cricket fans are in favor of DRS. Yup Manjrekar and Bhogle are in favor but rarely they speak in public, luring BCCI may be the reason.
I remember we had a thread discussing there whether the given two chances really improves the game or not. I remember last year in Ashes when Broad was out but was not given and Aussies were short of left attempts leading to a big controversy back then.
There are many more instances like the decision of Khwaja and many.

DRS must be implemented in all matches but we need to discuss whether giving it in the hand of team is correct or not.

Despite the slightly shaky start, England are still retaining a slight advantage overall.

This is easily the most crucial session of the match so far: England could be 220/4 at stumps and in clear control, or it could be 200/8 and a utter calamity.

Ballance is the key, and Ali needs to, temporarily, rein in those attacking instincts.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Should have not used up their referrals, should they? And Briad edged it to the keeper, if you actually recall, he fumbled it to 2 nd slip

Agreed. Limiting the number of referrals is crucial, otherwise teams may just review everything and/or use it as a time wasting ploy.

And as I've said before, even if one decision is correctly reversed by DRS, then it is a success.

Indeed an important session as Duty says. These two playing with a lot of caution. Unusual to see England scoring slower than India in this match : you can see the logic , but I would like to see the runs ticking over a bit quicker...at this rate they might be still short of 200 tonight.
Credit to the bowlers , who aren't giving much away.

Kumar brought back for another spell . He has bowled a few overs today ; but you can see why Dhoni has turned to him again...the new ball is still twenty overs away.
Jadeja is doing a good job for his captain.

I'd be happy for England to grind, if only to ensure that India leave the field with their heads slumped and to be there for the taking on Day Three.

I'd rather we were 195/4 than 220/6 at stumps.

Is he Alfie? As a skipper I'd be a little disappointed he hasn't troubled two lefties outside off stump.

Holding giving a reasoned argument for why DRS simply can't be put to the third umps

I do love me some Gary Ballance

kingraf wrote:Is he Alfie? As a skipper I'd be a little disappointed he hasn't troubled two lefties outside off stump.

Holding giving a reasoned argument for why DRS simply can't be put to the third umps

In a holding role , kingraf. I don't see him as a wrecker ; but he is allowing Dhoni to rotate his seamers. I do take your point ; but you can't turn a Ford Escort into a Ferrari ...

There will be a point where i just dont listen to the coverage any more

its all India out playing England etc and this that and the other- everything is positive India and negative England..the truth is they haven't had a legitimate wicket for 100 runs!

India have taken 4 wickets (one incorrectly awarded)  in  2.5 sessions- this isn't great bowling., The economy is fine- but that's England playing it safe. England forced the game into a result yesterday by getting wickets and have time.. The winner in this series will be the team that takes more wickets.

India need 16 in this game and do not look like taking them without serious help from the umpire. as England bat deep

England still fav's for this game.

Duty281 wrote:I'd be happy for England to grind, if only to ensure that India leave the field with their heads slumped and to be there for the taking on Day Three.  

I'd rather we were 195/4 than 220/6 at stumps.

Oh heavens yes , Duty . Me too. More that I like to see the strike turned over , not allowing the bowlers to get too comfortable , etc. I think they have done that more since I posted.

Not claiming the credit   

mystiroakey wrote:There will be a point where i just dont listen to the coverage any more

its all India out playing England etc and this that and the other- everything is positive India and negative England..the truth is they haven't had a legitimate wicket for 100 runs!

India have taken 4 wickets (one incorrectly awarded)  in  2.5 sessions- this isn't great bowling., The economy is fine- but that's England playing it safe. England forced the game into a result yesterday by getting wickets and have time.. The winner in this series will be the team that takes more wickets.

India need 16 in this game and do not look like taking them without serious help from the umpire. as England bat deep

England still fav's for this game.

The BBC'S live text is talking about England getting back into the game.

I have no idea what they're on about; England are, so far, on top. 45/0 in that first hour of the evening...keep grinding!

I see roakey has his confident hat on   

Agree the TV mob are bigging up India a lot . But although England are going well , if slowly , at the moment , there is still a lot of work to do. Batting last at Lord's in recent years hasn't been too bad a prospect ; but this pitch may have a few tricks late in the game as some of the indentations harden up. They will be wanting a decent sort of lead ; and that probably means batting to tea tomorrow at least.
Mind you if they can do that India's bowlers will be nice and weary...

Only takes a couple of wickets to change things. Hope these two stay solid.

only takes 3 more wickets and the score is xxx for 7 wickets.

and look what has happened in every other innings this series from that point!

mystiroakey wrote:only takes 3 more wickets and the score is xxx for 7 wickets.

and look what has happened in every other innings this series from that point!

  

Good point ! Another big score for the Burnley Lara ?

...still prefer these two to stay in , thanks   

This is real old fashioned Test Cricket ...none of your flashy Sehwag/Gayle/Warner nonsense ..grind the beggars down I say   

Yep too right- Grind them out in the field- Its 31 degrees and high humidity- even for indians they will be feeling it

Loads of time left in this game.

just keep the score ticking

In a way it gets easier to bat on as it goes on, as the suns bakes the green tinge off the pitch. So tomorrow may be the optimal day to bat pitchwise.