England vs India - Second Test - Lords

First topic message reminder :

Seeming as we have such a short turnaround thought I'd stick up a thread

England have added Simon Kerrigan to the squad interestingly. I'd imagine he must be in serious contention, or else what's the point of adding another body?

GSC wrote:In a way it gets easier to bat on as it goes on, as the suns bakes the green tinge off the pitch. So tomorrow may be the optimal day to bat pitchwise.

I am certain that is the Game Plan. And sure that Jimmy and co would prefer to be sat watching for as much of Saturday as possible.

These two are doing a fine job. Both growing in stature over the Test summer : good temperament , both of them.
Keep concentrating , chaps.

100 Ballance  

A well Ballanced hundred   

Likes Lord's , this lad .

Playing more freely now too , as he did against Sri Lanka.

    

Kep it going now , lad...job's not done yet...

Gary Ballance is very limited in talent but he knows how to score 100s. Well played.

This is where England lose 6 wickets for 70 runs  

Ali you're a bum mate.

How can you get out to Vijay.

Shocking.

Prior - show us why you are playing please.

Blast ! Ali lbw to the part timer ...bit too casual.

Never get too comfortable ...

Crucial hour coming up.

India need to prise out a couple with the new ball.

Wicket out of the blue...and Plunkett the night watchman ?? With seven overs left and a new ball due ?
Hmm...

Prior vs the new ball. Door widens for India

Or not. Plunkett must be the sacrificial lamb for the new ball

Night watchman.. Ballance needs to play this well.

In a way, England would rather Plunkett get out than Ballance face too many deliveries this eve

Really bad time for Ali to get out. India may have even hesitated to take the new ball if the partnership had still been going.
Potential here for the position to slip in the last few overs. Wonder how Plunkett fancies facing the pace men with a bright red one ? No Mitch J ; but it will wobble about.

In any case, England won't want Anderson getting a jaffa this evening

GSC wrote:In a way, England would rather Plunkett get out than Ballance face too many deliveries this eve

Well certainly. But unless he did so right at end of day it would rather defeat the purpose of sending him in so early.
He didn't bowl well. Hopefully he will redeem himself with the bat now...

bhuvi is tired......an already 78mph bowler now trundling at 73 to 75m,ph

Plunkett doesn't look to bad as a batsman tbh.

he does have a first class average of 24- so he cant be that bad.

Maybe he could be the next England centurion.

dhoni is such an under-rated WK.......but very very safe...not spectacular, but very safe

Symptomatic of a young side. Get themselves into good positions and don't quite know where to go with it.

Ballance gone to a leg side strangle   

Lot of good work being undone here...this is why I cautioned against too much overconfidence. If England start tomorrow seven down with the ball still new the usual pattern might not emerge.
Still some good bats in the shed so all is not yet lost. But India have certainly clawed back a lot of ground in the last fifteen minutes.

KP_fan wrote:dhoni is such an under-rated WK.......but very very safe...not spectacular, but very safe

Son of Roger might not agree   

But generally , yes.

KP_fan wrote:dhoni is such an under-rated WK.......but very very safe...not spectacular, but very safe

I think you are bit too harsh on judging him as under-rated WK. His responses are one of the best in the world now. He is very quick behind the wicket.

GSC wrote:Symptomatic of a young side. Get themselves into good positions and don't quite know where to go with it.

Not sure that's true so much today. Just a moments loss of concentration from Ali when he was right on top against the spinners...and Ballance a bit weary after a long day in the sun.
Be interesting to see how they go about it tomorrow morning .

Prior's edge not carrying...the bit of luck he needs ?

One to go.

Well done , Plunkett.

Even game.

Duty you kind of called it 219/6

Ali with a stupid miss to be honest.

Plunkett did well- he can fend of bouncers with ease.

--well India pulled it back a bit....and have hung in...just in balance now
Eng threatening to break in ahead...as pitch flattens and Indian bowling tires.

--In the very best case if bhuvi and shami bowl a good length Ind could earn a lead of 20 odd...less likely.

in the most likely case India would concede a lead of about 30 odd...that's another 100 runs tomm.....given that Eng lower order will score but the pitch has something so they might get useful 20s and 30s but no more....

--then India has to do the same about 320ish in their second inning and lave Eng to chase 300 in the 4th inning...which will be tough but gettable

the game has gone 50/50 now.

India's day in the end- the two late wickets sealing it

Like yesterday, Its just about India's day in the end, but England are very much in the game. With Prior, Stokes and Broad still there, they are in a position to get a good lead even now. First half-hour going to be very crucial tomorrow. If India can get a few in early, then the England lead can be limited to 20-30.
Then it will be up to the batters to provide them with a score to play with in the 4th innings.
Bhuvneshwar Kumar was pretty good, and Ravindra Jadeja again played a good containing job besides taking the important but lucky wicket of Joe Root. But Shami and Ishant didn't contribute enough. Binny yet again not able to contain or take wickets.

A fine hand from Gary Ballance. He really has taken his chances this summer, and batting in the rather unfamiliar position of number 3, he has really flourished. A very, very crucial innings today that has kept his side in the game.
Zimbabwe's loss most certainly has been England's gain.

We just cant shake the foreigners can we!!

we have another brilliant one

mystiroakey wrote:We just cant shake the foreigners can we!!

we have another brilliant one

by the look of things....Trott seems to have been almost adequately replaced

India would have so loved to have Pankaj Singh in the playing 11 and in addtion if we had sandeep sharma....it would have been like 3 Bhuvi equivalents bowling.

Pankaj may be in in the next game unless Shami picks 4 of the next 14 wickets

Shami has regressed a bit from his debut times hasn't he? The pace was up in the mid to late 130s today in the first spell, but he's capable of a little bit more. Reverse is difficult on this track at this point so fair enough, but Shami has been a bit too short at times with his length so far.
Bhuvi was a bit of a concern going into the series, but he has excelled with the new ball and hasn't let the side down with the old one either. Would be great if he could maintain the same control over swing at a pace that is a yard quicker!.

mystiroakey wrote:Duty you kind of called it 219/6

Ali with a stupid miss to be honest.

Plunkett did well- he can fend of bouncers with ease.

Grrr, not totally pleased that I did!

Our lower order won't be the best at accumulating so I think attack will be the best form of defence tomorrow. No scratching around!

msp83 wrote:Shami has regressed a bit from his debut times hasn't he? The pace was up in the mid to late 130s today in the first spell, but he's capable of a little bit more. Reverse is difficult on this track at this point so fair enough, but Shami has been a bit too short at times with his length so far.
Bhuvi was a bit of a concern going into the series, but he has excelled with the new ball and hasn't let the side down with the old one either. Would be great if he could maintain the same control over swing at a pace that is a yard quicker!.

shami...his problem is not witht pace....but consistency.......he cannot bowl 4 to 5 tight balls in an over.
maybe 1 or 2 only and then the sprays his length....juts not focused enough for test match bowling to bowl a consistent length. Ganguly confirmed that point about shami's wavering length.
equivalent of a ODI batsman's ability to leave ball after ball outside off.

Bhuvi.......he is picking wickets on all sorta pitches with his pace...so why do we want more pace from him.
simon hughes analysed is action in close up on channel 5 and showed he is using his wrists( flexing them) and his index and middle finders to subtly change the position of the seam to get so much swing...in both directions and to literally toy with the ball.

He can't bowl faster with so much flexing of wrists and use of either index or middle fingers holding the balls so gently and moving the seam. he will lose that craft that allows him to move the ball and gets wickets.

he does ball conventionally without flexing his wrists and holding balls tight will all fingers and then he hits 83 to 85mph ( generally as a variation in limited overs)

We're in deep deep trouble here.

This pitch is beginning to deteriorate and we aren't going to have a big enough first innings lead to make winning the toss and bowling justifiable.

If India can get 250-300 third innings they've all but got the game sealed.

Again England missed a massive massive opportunity with India 145-7. You cannot pass them up, and this side has done for ages. Thus no win in nine games.

To be honest at this moment in time, I honestly think England would be a better side if they went full #newera and got rid of Bell, Prior and at this moment in time Cook. With Cook, when does a rut stop being a rut and start being the norm? Because its the same dismissal time and time and time again

Still glad I've been a fully fledged member of the Ballance bus from the start

Watching the verdict and willis is spot on. At the end of the day, we'd strip cook of the captaincy but who realistically is there to take over? I'd go for Bell but again that's a risk because he isn't scoring runs himself.

He hasn't been helped by his senior players either with bell and prior poor with the bat, broad and anderson poor with the ball. The whole KP fiasco didn't go down too well and for me should still be there. I actually think he'd be one of the few to actively try and help cook out and pass on some ideas he has but i feel cook is a stubborn character who doesn't like other people telling him what to do. Now its all going pete tong, he's just doing what the media have told him to do rather than what HE wants to do.

On DRS, ridiculous its not being used and India should just be forced to use it. Reviews should be set to 1 per side so you can't have captains tactically using reviews.

Diversity of views here. I have India still marginally ahead in the game , principally because England are still 76 runs astern and have work to do against the still new ball to even achieve parity.
However I am not certain that a big first innings lead - while desirable - is essential. Provided they don't fold completely in the morning , you'd expect England to at least be more or less on terms on first innings ; whereupon we are looking at a one innings contest. Sure , they then have to bat last : but I am not convinced this pitch is going to become unplayable - Lord's seldom does. There will be a few things happening for the bowlers , as there have been throughout the match , but unless India get right away with their second innings the game should still be open.
The Indian second innings of course will be key. England need - whatever the situation at the start of it - to get their collective act together and really put consistent pressure on the batsmen. Of late they just haven't been able to do that , so this will be a big test for Cook , Moores and the bowlers. Their biggest problem is of course the lack of confidence from the extended poor run , and resultant media and fan negativity surrounding the team : as soon as a couple of things go wrong - partnership interrupts a flow of wickets , catches go down , etc - there is a tendency to think "oh no , here it goes again " and the wheels detach...this must not happen this weekend.
With all the gloom surrounding England's form , it should not be overlooked that India has also been beset with problem recently : the inability to close out games from good positions is not an English monopoly.
Not a race to the bottom ; but a battle between two flawed teams striving to rebuild...it has been engrossing so far. Will be fascinating to see today : well , tonight here. Not that I shall see much ; wife has other plans for this evening so have to leave you fellows to supervise the rest of the run chase. Hope to check in some time to see England in a stronger position...

I have been invited to the India club hospitality at Lords...to watch the D4 i.e Sunday.

For a moment at 140-7 and with ball jagging around as much as it was...I was afraid the game might not go into the 4th day and the first of it's kind opportunity I have will be lost.

However now there will be a D4 certainly and hopefully the way things stand in the game I will get to watch both teams bat a bit. 

Reports from lords are its hot and overcast and muggy. Perfect swing bowling conditions...

KP_fan wrote:I have been invited to the India club hospitality at Lords...to watch the D4 i.e Sunday.

For a moment at 140-7 and with ball jagging around as much as it was...I was afraid the game might not go into the 4th day and the first of it's kind opportunity I have will be lost.

However now there will be a D4  certainly and hopefully the way things stand in the game I will get to watch both teams bat a bit. 

That's great. Enjoy yourself tomorrow.
The match will still be in progress for sure. It could be one of the most interesting days to be there.

alfie wrote:Diversity of views here.  I have India still marginally ahead in the game , principally because England are still 76 runs astern and have work to do against the still new ball to even achieve parity.
However I am not certain that a big first innings lead - while desirable - is essential.  Provided they don't fold completely in the morning , you'd expect England to at least be more or less on terms on first innings ; whereupon we are looking at a one innings contest.  Sure , they then have to bat last : but I am not convinced this pitch is going to become unplayable - Lord's seldom does. There will be a few things happening for the bowlers , as there have been throughout the match , but unless India get right away with their second innings the game should still be open.
The Indian second innings of course will be key.  England need - whatever the situation at the start of it - to get their collective act together and really put consistent pressure on the batsmen.  Of late they just haven't been able to do that , so this will be a big test for Cook , Moores and the bowlers. Their biggest problem is of course the lack of confidence from the extended poor run , and resultant media and fan negativity surrounding the team : as soon as a couple of things go wrong - partnership interrupts a flow of wickets , catches go down , etc - there is a tendency to think "oh no , here it goes again " and the wheels detach...this must not happen this weekend.
With all the gloom surrounding England's form , it should not be overlooked that India has also been beset with problem recently : the inability to close out games from good positions is not an English monopoly.
Not a race to the bottom ; but a battle between two flawed teams striving to rebuild...it has been engrossing so far.  Will be fascinating to see today : well , tonight here. Not that I shall see much ; wife has other plans for this evening so have to leave you fellows to supervise the rest of the run chase.  Hope to check in some time to see England in a stronger position...

Alfie - that's a very good post. I haven't been able to watch much of this Test but from what I have and the current score I would suggest it's pretty level pegging. Even without any batting heroics from the Burnley Bruiser, I would expect (ok, hope) a combo of Prior, Plunkers, Stokes and Broad will enable us to obtain parity. Important Prior delivers something positive in this match - imo, he hasn't justified his recall as yet.

You're right to emphasise that both teams are flawed. However, such flaws tend to be magnified more for the home side.

Engrossing and fascinating as you say ....

IWhat's the target then? 350?

just hit there score first going easy- then re evaluate.

I still give England the edge. The pitch won't deteriorate vastly between the 3rd and 4th innings and, in a one innings shoot-out, England have the better bowlers.

ind should bowl jadeja at one end without wasting time