Will McIlroy win the Masters?

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So Rory has 3 out of the 4 majors in the bag at the pretty young age of 25. Will he easily add the Masters or will it elude him as the US Open has eluded Mickelson?

He reached the greenside bunker with 2 irons yes. It's not a long hole - especially when you cut the corner with your second the way he did.

No, he stuck it into the right hand bunker. He did have enough club for sure to get on the green, but pushed it a bit. Safe enough in the end, but anything slightly shorter or slightly further right was trouble.

McIlroy will probably win about 10 majors in his career. He hasn't dominated the game in the way Woods has...so far. There is always hype after a player wins a major, but if we think back to Rory's first 2 majors, he had some very ordinary spells afterwards.

Big difference between McIlroy and Woods is that one enjoys golf and is highly competitive when his game is there.
The other is obsessed with winning, at anything apparently, and sees little point in teeing it (anything?) up unless he not only wins but has imposed himself on his conquest.

I seriously doubt that Rory gives a toss about 18 Majors, whereas winning 19 is apparently the only thing that keeps Tiger going.

Winning 15 ought to be more on Nine Chins radar, at his current rate of 0 in 6 years, it doesn't look likely.
When it really matters, his driving with the driver is one of the worst in a tournament and casts him from somewhat in contention to barely making the cut.

kwinigolfer wrote:Big difference between McIlroy and Woods is that one enjoys golf and is highly competitive when his game is there.
The other is obsessed with winning, at anything apparently, and sees little point in teeing it (anything?) up unless he not only wins but has imposed himself on his conquest.

I seriously doubt that Rory gives a toss about 18 Majors, whereas winning 19 is apparently the only thing that keeps Tiger going.

Come on Kwini, that's total conjecture on your part. Just because Tiger doesn't naturally have a beaming smile on his face does not mean he doesn't love the game. Go back to when he was a kid and you can see the joy he had in just playing, I don't doubt he still takes massive pleasure from it.
I've never read anywhere that his only driver is the records, just because he likes to win does not un any way shape or form mean he doesn't enjoy what he's doing.

Perhaps he should try a wee smile Diggers and approach the game with a bit of levity, being a super-serious bottom lip dragging misery guts isn't doing him any good, even although it's funny for us to watch.

He's very much a laughable caricature these days with his rapidly balding head representative of his fading crown and his powerless and ridiculous red shirt on a Sunday looking increasingly less intimidating.

Of course the truth being he does smile...of course the truth being he also now gives decent entertaining press conferences...but hey lets not let the facts get mixed up with a good story.

Diggers wrote:Of course the truth being he does smile...of course the truth being he also now gives decent entertaining press conferences...but hey lets not let the facts get mixed up with a good story.

Got any links to his "decent, entertaining press conferences"
I'd challenge you to find any interesting press conferences from golfers though.

Peter Alliss said in Sunday's coverage that it's amazing, considering how long he's been at the top of the game, that Tiger hasn't managed to find a safe drive. He was talking about Trevino who teed it low and let it cut a bit which took the hook out of the equation. Surely something like that would suit Eldrick and give him a better footing in tournaments?

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:Of course the truth being he does smile...of course the truth being he also now gives decent entertaining press conferences...but hey lets not let the facts get mixed up with a good story.

Got any links to his "decent, entertaining press conferences"
I'd challenge you to find any interesting press conferences from golfers though.

I read the papers Super, in the past two years have read stacks of comments from reporters about how Woods has lightened up and is actually quite amusing now. As I've told Gael, I'm not here to provide information, if you don't believe me look yourself and if you don't find it I still don't care as I know what I've read.

Always thought that Woods preposterously quick swing accompanied with the least accurate club is a recipe for disaster, he's not exactly short with the 3 wood, and you have to wonder just how many tournaments he's thrown away by being such a terrible driver of the ball in crucial moments.
How much would he actually be gaining over his three wood by hitting a perfect drive, not much more than 25 yards.

It certaintly isn't just TW's driver and the field getting deeper that is to blame. His clutch putting also seems to have disappeared. Dunno, maybe he's just getting old.

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:Of course the truth being he does smile...of course the truth being he also now gives decent entertaining press conferences...but hey lets not let the facts get mixed up with a good story.

Got any links to his "decent, entertaining press conferences"
I'd challenge you to find any interesting press conferences from golfers though.

I read the papers Super, in the past two years have read stacks of comments from reporters about how Woods has lightened up and is actually quite amusing now. As I've told Gael, I'm not here to provide information, if you don't believe me look yourself and if you don't find it I still don't care as I know what I've read.

I've heard some of his wooden interviews, and I partly blame the interviewers for that as if you ask a rubbish question you'll get a rubbish answer, i've heard him try to crack a few cringeworthy jokes too, at least he's trying I suppose, but like his course management, he doesn't appear to have much between the ears. He's in the same bracket as Terry and Gerrard when it comes to interviews.

All agreed Super
His swing though can't be much slower than say McIlroy or Fowler who both whip through it.
Woods just doesn't seem to have great technique with it, which is amazing for a guy who has won as much as he has, but pretty undeniable.
You have to wonder why he hasn't adopted a Trevino type shot or as you say, just binned it and hit 3 wood. Pride?

MustPuttBetter wrote:Peter Alliss said in Sunday's coverage that it's amazing, considering how long he's been at the top of the game, that Tiger hasn't managed to find a safe drive. He was talking about Trevino who teed it low and let it cut a bit which took the hook out of the equation. Surely something like that would suit Eldrick and give him a better footing in tournaments?

I find it amazing that Alliss can make a comment that has any relevance to modern golf. Lets face it last years world number one Stenson can't even hit a driver so Woods is far from being the only golfer around who hasn't managed to find a stock drive. Luke Donald is another former number one who can't drive for toffee and never could and he certainly doesn't wallop the ball.

Come on super, he's defo improved. Can't blame the man for at least trying.

MustPuttBetter wrote:All agreed Super
His swing though can't be much slower than say McIlroy or Fowler who both whip through it.
Woods just doesn't seem to have great technique with it, which is amazing for a guy who has won as much as he has, but pretty undeniable.
You have to wonder why he hasn't adopted a Trevino type shot or as you say, just binned it and hit 3 wood. Pride?

You can't imagine a swing like 9 Chins "wintering" as well as someone like Donald, Els, Scott, Ogilvy, Tom Watson etc when it comes to career longevity.

pedro wrote:It certaintly isn't just TW's driver and the field getting deeper that is to blame. His clutch putting also seems to have disappeared. Dunno, maybe he's just getting old.

Probably right Pedro but the good rounds seem to coincide with the ones where he keeps it on the fairway and the bad ones where he's all over the place. Look at last week.

Maybe he's not the putter he was but the rest of the game is certainly good enough to win events still. It's his driving that puts him out of them

super_realist wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:All agreed Super
His swing though can't be much slower than say McIlroy or Fowler who both whip through it.
Woods just doesn't seem to have great technique with it, which is amazing for a guy who has won as much as he has, but pretty undeniable.
You have to wonder why he hasn't adopted a Trevino type shot or as you say, just binned it and hit 3 wood. Pride?

You can't imagine a swing like 9 Chins "wintering" as well as someone like Donald, Els, Scott, Ogilvy, Tom Watson etc when it comes to career longevity.

So 20 years at the top isn't career longevity. How many tears into his career last year and he won 5 times reclaiming number one spot? Wonder how many pro's games have lasted that long.
Donald's career longevity at the top.....hardly the same really and he's never been competitive in a major. Utterly ludicrous comparison in so many ways.

Diggers wrote:I find it amazing that Alliss can make a comment that has any relevance to modern golf. Lets face it last years world number one Stenson can't even hit a driver so Woods is far from being the only golfer around who hasn't managed to find a stock drive. Luke Donald is another former number one who can't drive for toffee and never could and he certainly doesn't wallop the ball.

True re both of those but it's no coincidence that when they both rose up the rankings was the period where they were driving it straight. Both now are wild again and are falling back down.....[/quote]

Diggers wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:Peter Alliss said in Sunday's coverage that it's amazing, considering how long he's been at the top of the game, that Tiger hasn't managed to find a safe drive. He was talking about Trevino who teed it low and let it cut a bit which took the hook out of the equation. Surely something like that would suit Eldrick and give him a better footing in tournaments?

I find it amazing that Alliss can make a comment that has any relevance to modern golf. Lets face it last years world number one Stenson can't even hit a driver so Woods is far from being the only golfer around who hasn't managed to find a stock drive. Luke Donald is another former number one who can't drive for toffee and never could and he certainly doesn't wallop the ball.

The point was Nine CHins failure with the driver at the point when it matters, not that he couldn't hit it.
Stenson doesn't/didn't need to hit driver, it's the course management that Woods lacks. He hits a 3 wood an enormous distance to the point where accuracy is more valuable than an extra few yards.

Donalds lack of accracy (he was average distance) was accompanied by high GIR and a first rate short game.

Woods doesn't putt great these days and misses way too many greens lately.

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:All agreed Super
His swing though can't be much slower than say McIlroy or Fowler who both whip through it.
Woods just doesn't seem to have great technique with it, which is amazing for a guy who has won as much as he has, but pretty undeniable.
You have to wonder why he hasn't adopted a Trevino type shot or as you say, just binned it and hit 3 wood. Pride?

You can't imagine a swing like 9 Chins "wintering" as well as someone like Donald, Els, Scott, Ogilvy, Tom Watson etc when it comes to career longevity.

So 20 years at the top isn't career longevity. How many tears into his career last year and he won 5 times reclaiming number one spot? Wonder how many pro's games have lasted that long.
Donald's career longevity at the top.....hardly the same really and he's never been competitive in a major. Utterly ludicrous comparison in so many ways.

Yes, I was referring to how a swing like Nine CHins will be when he's a little older. When he's still chasing that 15th major when he's 43 still trying to swing like that with a dodgy back and a glass knee. The smooth swings of the guys I've mentioned are more likely to last than the gungho nine chins one

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:Peter Alliss said in Sunday's coverage that it's amazing, considering how long he's been at the top of the game, that Tiger hasn't managed to find a safe drive. He was talking about Trevino who teed it low and let it cut a bit which took the hook out of the equation. Surely something like that would suit Eldrick and give him a better footing in tournaments?

I find it amazing that Alliss can make a comment that has any relevance to modern golf. Lets face it last years world number one Stenson can't even hit a driver so Woods is far from being the only golfer around who hasn't managed to find a stock drive. Luke Donald is another former number one who can't drive for toffee and never could and he certainly doesn't wallop the ball.

The point was Nine CHins failure with the driver at the point when it matters, not that he couldn't hit it.
Stenson doesn't/didn't need to hit driver, it's the course management that Woods lacks. He hits a 3 wood an enormous distance to the point where accuracy is more valuable than an extra few yards.

Donalds lack of accracy (he was average distance) was accompanied by high GIR and a first rate short game.

Woods doesn't putt great these days and misses way too many greens lately.

Now let me think...how many Opens has Stenson won using course management and a 3 wood? Did I hear you say none...what no majors at all? Now remind me who did win an Open doing just that?
Woods has failed with his driver when it matters? You mean in all of those 100 odd career wins his driver has let him down? When he's won tournaments by a country mile his driver has let him down? When he won more PGA events last year than the likes of Donald has in a whole career his driver let him down.
Take about rewriting a career.

I didn't actually raise the point as a criticism of Woods so no need to defend him!
The guy has won a shedload and, as Diggers says, has been doing so for 20 years and you can't knock that.
But isn't it amazing that, for all the ability he has, he hasn't managed to find a shot with the driver that he's comfortable with? I wonder, at this point in his career, if he adopted a Trevino type cutter or anything 'safe' if he might be in contention more , as the rest of his game is blatantly good enough

I mean think about it seriously. When Woods was utterly dominating the game, breaking records left, right and centre...where people saying come on Tiger you really need to sort your swing out?
I think not somehow.

INdeed Diggers, the whole point being how often has 9C employed that? ONce, twice perhaps.
I'm talking about 9C now, not then. He's had a different swing, injuries and a mental breakdown since then. His driver has let him down repeatedly when it matters to him (Majors) numerous times in the last 6 years.

No, but now he's not and is there any denying his driving isn't good these days? Or are you trying to say it's just fine and there's no need for him to think about anything in that regard?

His swing was great back in the day, almost as good as Adam Scott, now it's like an axe murderer

MustPuttBetter wrote:No, but now he's not and is there any denying his driving isn't good these days? Or are you trying to say it's just fine and there's no need for him to think about anything in that regard?

But MPB...he has barely played this year. He won 5 PGA titles and got to world number one last year and he certainly had a driver in his bag. As I remember at least one of those was a tough driving course where he hit it great.
On the back of that he's meant to write the driver off, sure its inconsistent, though we have hardly had a chance to see it yet this year, but its not like his game is utterly shot is it? There just doesn't appear to be any sense of perspective with Woods. See him hit a few loose drives and we write off last years wins...as many wins as Westwood has managed in how many years?

If anyone's losing perspective it's not me. I didn't say he was meant to write off the driver. Or that his game was utterly shot (quite the opposite) or that any wins should be written off (quite the opposite).

He won 5 times last year yes and he hasn't played much this year no. But there were plenty of events last year where he'd go and shoot great scores when on the fairway and then shoot big scores the next day when all over the place.

If he has a weakness, these days, it his driving. I don't think that deniable. I suspect even he might say the same.
It seems to be fairly commonly accepted that he doesn't feel comfortable with the driver these days, you can almost see that in his body language which after each bad drive says 'not another one '

I'm simply saying I find it incredible that, considering his experience and talent, he doesn't have a 'safe drive' for the days it's not going great

super_realist wrote:His swing was great back in the day, almost as good as Adam Scott, now it's like an axe murderer

This. I'm not technical or good enough to say whether or not Tiger's swing is now a good one or not. He's still in the world top 10 (just) so it can't be all bad.. but it looks god awful - especially when he swings hard (which like most club golfers, produces a poorer result 90% of the time compared with dialing it back a bit).

Fair enough I get that, and sorry wasn't particularly referring to you lacking perspective.
But I'm not convinced that may players have a safe drive they can bring out of the bag consistently, Id say that was Alliss wittering on personally.
Woods hits a driver the way he thinks best and needs to do that consistently...so basically his safe shot is his stock drive. Like I say its not consistent but its part of his game and even last year his game was good enough to be world number one and win 5 times.
Super just assumes he's some kind of special with no course management...although of course he's won at least an Open through course management.
I just think you have to accept that he knows his game. He's had one of the great careers in modern sport so for me I accept that by and large he knows what he's doing.

I'd also say his stupid swing has caused him a lot of his biomechanical problems. How many tournaments and majors has he missed through needless injuries?

super_realist wrote:I'd also say his stupid (14 major winning) swing has caused him a lot of his biomechanical problems. How many tournaments and majors has he missed through needless injuries?

Edited.

I do accept that he knows his game and I've no doubt he's not sitting at home right now saying 'I really am a good player, lucky I don't need to work on anything'.
I'm not professing to know more about golf than Woods but that doesn't mean I can't debate it.

My own personal feeling is that whilst he's no doubt trying to work on his driving he's probably still trying to perfect whatever he thinks is the perfect swing with the driver. Because of his character and because of his pride.
But for those same reasons I suspect he refuses to employ a safer one, driver stinger type shot for want of a better term, that can be brought out when the 'stock proper drive' is getting him in trouble.

I think he might do better if he worked something safe in.
You look at the Open. Day 1 he drove it ok and got himself right in amongst it, great. Day 2 he was all over the shop and was basically out of it. If after 3 or 4 wild drives on the Friday he'd employed something safer he'd most likely have still been in the tournament on the weekend. We all know with Tiger if he's somewhere in with a chance he's always a danger

Digs,
All I was saying is that Woods has an addictive personality, as has clearly been documented. Doesn't matter what the compulsion is, but that personality helps drive him to win, to sometimes appear to will the ball in to the hole. Perhaps the 100+ associations that got him sent to Mississippi is part of the same trait but ultimately wasn't healthy?
 
And I don't think Rory has that.
 
It may enable him to keep his physical health longer and to get some joy out of his golf and out of life; which may not be conducive to winning a shedload of Majors, but doubt if he'll much care so long as he wins his share.
 
Would also say that Tiger's pig-headed determination to cling to Sean Foley is part of the same personality ---order. He won't bin him until he gets #15, then he'll probably call for the knackers.

Kwini, in fairness Tiger did ditch Steve Williams. Don't think he'd have done it if he didn't beleive it was right for his game.

Rory has fairly ruthlessly ditched Holly and Caroline, along with Chubby and Horizon over the years so maybe he's more Tiger like than we know?

MustPuttBetter wrote:I do accept that he knows his game and I've no doubt he's not sitting at home right now saying 'I really am a good player, lucky I don't need to work on anything'.
I'm not professing to know more about golf than Woods but that doesn't mean I can't debate it.

My own personal feeling is that whilst he's no doubt trying to work on his driving he's probably still trying to perfect whatever he thinks is the perfect swing with the driver. Because of his character and because of his pride.
But for those same reasons I suspect he refuses to employ a safer one, driver stinger type shot for want of a better term, that can be brought out when the 'stock proper drive' is getting him in trouble.

I think he might do better if he worked something safe in.
You look at the Open. Day 1 he drove it ok and got himself right in amongst it, great. Day 2 he was all over the shop and was basically out of it. If after 3 or 4 wild drives on the Friday he'd employed something safer he'd most likely have still been in the tournament on the weekend. We all know with Tiger if he's somewhere in with a chance he's always a danger

OK, fair points. But where is Rory's safe drive when he is shouting 80 on his freaky Fridays? Just because he's won again (which just like Tiger we know he can do) do we know that's all gone? But I don't hear anyone saying Rory needs to make massive changes to his game.

kwinigolfer wrote:Digs,
All I was saying is that Woods has an addictive personality, as has clearly been documented. Doesn't matter what the compulsion is, but that personality helps drive him to win, to sometimes appear to will the ball in to the hole. Perhaps the 100+ associations that got him sent to Mississippi is part of the same trait but ultimately wasn't healthy?
 
And I don't think Rory has that.
 
It may enable him to keep his physical health longer and to get some joy out of his golf and out of life; which may not be conducive to winning a shedload of Majors, but doubt if he'll much care so long as he wins his share.
 
Would also say that Tiger's pig-headed determination to cling to Sean Foley is part of the same personality ---order. He won't bin him until he gets #15, then he'll probably call for the knackers.

Alternatively he's stuck with Foley because after several fallow years he started winning regularly again?
Id say Rory has a few demons of his own personally.

Always amuses me.

Q - Will McIlroy win the Masters?

A - Tiger's poopie at driving.

OK it didn't go directly there and evolved round to it but it got me thinking, at what point do you think the general golf debate as a whole will move on from weighting towards Tiger and on to McIlroy or <insert name of next big thing that comes through>? Not slagging anyone off for discussing Tiger btw as he is still the number one conversation point in the game whether rightly or wrongly, but just an observation.

Will it be someone doing a career grand slam? Someone getting to 6/7 majors? Or are we now at a point that it would take 6+ majors including at least 1 career grand slams or (say) a "proper" 1 season slam?

Well quite, but my original point was given the length of time Tiger has been at the very top of the game I am surprised he hasn't found something driver wise with which he feels comfortable even if it's not his first choice of shot.
If, in 15 years time, Rory is still shooting freaky Friday scores and his wild driving is looking like it's starting to cost him at times, I might be offering the same advisory service to not so young Rory!  

To be honest, I'll probably be on the tour myself by then..... 

I see Jimmy Bullard is trying his hand on the Pipe Dreamers tour (Europro)

Roller_Coaster wrote:Always amuses me.

Q - Will McIlroy win the Masters?

A - Tiger's poopie at driving.

OK it didn't go directly there and evolved round to it but it got me thinking, at what point do you think the general golf debate as a whole will move on from weighting towards Tiger and on to McIlroy or <insert name of next big thing that comes through>? Not slagging anyone off for discussing Tiger btw as he is still the number one conversation point in the game whether rightly or wrongly, but just an observation.

Will it be someone doing a career grand slam? Someone getting to 6/7 majors? Or are we now at a point that it would take 6+ majors including at least 1 career grand slams or (say) a "proper" 1 season slam?

I think Tiger is a one off and all the time he's playing he'll attract the attention, probably for a bit after too. Like him or otherwise it's going to take quite some time before people stop talking about him and comparing others to him. Look how often Nicklaus, Palmer etc are still brought up, quite a lot considering the time gone by.

And I wouldn't be surprised if none of us saw a proper 1 season slam! Bobby Jones is the only person to do it so far in 120ish years of major era golf

Hope 9C isn't breaking his back hitting the first drive at Augusta every year like Coffin Dodger Palmer

super_realist wrote:I see Jimmy Bullard is trying his hand on the Pipe Dreamers tour (Europro)

He's off +1 apparently so he's already better than Poulter.....

Most of the players on that tour are dreadful, just a racket for Barry Hearne

MustPuttBetter wrote:

super_realist wrote:I see Jimmy Bullard is trying his hand on the Pipe Dreamers tour (Europro)

He's off +1 apparently so he's already better than Poulter.....

Bullard's not even that into golf I don't think, he's just very good at it (relatively). Same with football, his actual real passion is fishing, think he's like national competition level at that. Now that is one seriously dull pastime, unless maybe you are after a marlin in the Pacific or something.

Have to admit I pay absolutely no attention to europro or even challenge tour stuff. If the europro is full of terrible players (noting the super "pinch of salt" in the comment - it's almost high praise in the pantheon of appreciation super shows!) what sort of prizes are on offer, how big are the fields where do they play etc?