Golovkin only has himself to blame....
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Dipper Brown
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Golovkin only has himself to blame....
http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/gennady-golovkin-has-only-himself-to-blame-for-not-being-the-true-world-middleweight-champion/
Is it me, or this the most ridicukous article ever written?
From what I can tell, it would appear to Mr Hirsch that the only reason Golovkin isn't considered the true Middleweight Champ (outside of hardcore fans) is because he doesn't publicly throw his toys out of the pram and disrespect every other champ in the division of ducking?
It's a double edged sword really because on the one hand he's being a role model athlete and simply going about his business with the class you'd expect a top level athlete to have, but on the other there is perhaps an argument that he would actually further his career by taking a (very watered down) leaf out of Tyson Fury's book when it comes to press conferences !
Whilst that is something that he could perhaps do, I'm pretty sure that, if he tried, the author could find several hundred reasons (all to do with the way boxing is run as a business) which rank higher in the list of why GGG isn't a superstar of boxing before he came to GGG's refusal to act like a jackass for the cameras !
Am I being to harsh on the article here?
Is it me, or this the most ridicukous article ever written?
From what I can tell, it would appear to Mr Hirsch that the only reason Golovkin isn't considered the true Middleweight Champ (outside of hardcore fans) is because he doesn't publicly throw his toys out of the pram and disrespect every other champ in the division of ducking?
It's a double edged sword really because on the one hand he's being a role model athlete and simply going about his business with the class you'd expect a top level athlete to have, but on the other there is perhaps an argument that he would actually further his career by taking a (very watered down) leaf out of Tyson Fury's book when it comes to press conferences !
Whilst that is something that he could perhaps do, I'm pretty sure that, if he tried, the author could find several hundred reasons (all to do with the way boxing is run as a business) which rank higher in the list of why GGG isn't a superstar of boxing before he came to GGG's refusal to act like a jackass for the cameras !
Am I being to harsh on the article here?
CallMeBenji- Posts : 110
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
I can half see the authors point. The thing is with boxing no matter how good you are nothing is guaranteed. In football Man U are going to play City at least twice a year, in tennis if Andy Murray wins enough games and makes enough semis and finals he is almost guaranteed to play Djokovic and so on. Golovkin has no such guarantees, Cotto currently has no obligation to fight him and the chances of someone being stripped for not facing a unification are about as good as the chances of Tyson Fury usurping Ali as the greatest heavyweight ever.
Given this the authors argument that fighters need to offer something a bit more to ensure they get the chances the broken system does not afford them has some validity. However, it is not especially an argument I care for. Golovkin vs Cotto is a natural fight that should happen, as was Hatton vs Witter, as was Floyd vs Manny. The idea that Golovkin should have to act like a graceless punk or should have to act in a way that is not natural to him, or that does not sit right with him is not one that I personally agree with. When one watches the likes of Tyson Fury at a press conference or Haye and Chisora rolling around like idiots it is already too difficult to tell the sport from the WWE, encouraging one of the sports good guys to act like an imbecile should not be the answer.
Given this the authors argument that fighters need to offer something a bit more to ensure they get the chances the broken system does not afford them has some validity. However, it is not especially an argument I care for. Golovkin vs Cotto is a natural fight that should happen, as was Hatton vs Witter, as was Floyd vs Manny. The idea that Golovkin should have to act like a graceless punk or should have to act in a way that is not natural to him, or that does not sit right with him is not one that I personally agree with. When one watches the likes of Tyson Fury at a press conference or Haye and Chisora rolling around like idiots it is already too difficult to tell the sport from the WWE, encouraging one of the sports good guys to act like an imbecile should not be the answer.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Aye, a pretty dire article there if we're being honest. Does Hirsch have a minimum number of articles he needs to complete per month or something, and just needed to write something - anything - here to make sure he's hitting targets? Even if the stuff he was saying carried any weight, it'd still be a nothing article.
Golovkin stated clearly, plenty of times, that he wanted to fight Martinez and that the fight was top of his agenda. Just because he did so without calling Martinez every name under the sun or gatecrashing his press conferences shouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Martinez and Cotto have built up fan favourite reputations, guys who have taken some hard knocks but have remained nice, classy guys throughout - as a result it seems as if writers these days are totally incapable of penning anything remotely negative about them. Rather than concentrating on the fact that Martinez wanted no part of Golovkin, which is the actual problem here, Hirsch would rather point out that Golovkin hasn't moaned loudly enough about it?
Reminds me of the situation a few years back when Mayweather completely ignored the catchweight against Marquez and somehow a load of observers started spewing out lines such as, "sorry, no sympathy for Marquez, he knew what kind of man he was dealing with in Mayweather when he signed. Floyd is the cash cow so Marquez should have forseen this and he only has himself to blame" and the like.
It's just symptomatic of how fans almost encourage fighters to duck certain challenges these days. Everyone thinks they're a bloody PR man or financial advisor. We're talking about fighters here, professional sportsmen. They should get in the ring and fight, and if they're the lineal champion of a division they should be fighting the next best in line which, beyond any doubt, is clearly Golovkin, and has been for a while. If Golovkin never gets his shot then the fault lies with Martinez and Cotto, not Golovkin. Hopefully either Cotto, or Alvarez if he usurps him, will do what Martinez never managed.
Golovkin stated clearly, plenty of times, that he wanted to fight Martinez and that the fight was top of his agenda. Just because he did so without calling Martinez every name under the sun or gatecrashing his press conferences shouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Martinez and Cotto have built up fan favourite reputations, guys who have taken some hard knocks but have remained nice, classy guys throughout - as a result it seems as if writers these days are totally incapable of penning anything remotely negative about them. Rather than concentrating on the fact that Martinez wanted no part of Golovkin, which is the actual problem here, Hirsch would rather point out that Golovkin hasn't moaned loudly enough about it?
Reminds me of the situation a few years back when Mayweather completely ignored the catchweight against Marquez and somehow a load of observers started spewing out lines such as, "sorry, no sympathy for Marquez, he knew what kind of man he was dealing with in Mayweather when he signed. Floyd is the cash cow so Marquez should have forseen this and he only has himself to blame" and the like.
It's just symptomatic of how fans almost encourage fighters to duck certain challenges these days. Everyone thinks they're a bloody PR man or financial advisor. We're talking about fighters here, professional sportsmen. They should get in the ring and fight, and if they're the lineal champion of a division they should be fighting the next best in line which, beyond any doubt, is clearly Golovkin, and has been for a while. If Golovkin never gets his shot then the fault lies with Martinez and Cotto, not Golovkin. Hopefully either Cotto, or Alvarez if he usurps him, will do what Martinez never managed.
88Chris05- Moderator
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Golovkin has been been trying to build a steady fanbase and interest in order to make himself a viable financial option for the fighters that just don’t want to face him. He has offered out the top names and they weren’t interested and hid behind the not financially viable excuse, while fighting lesser opponents. Hes now built a profile that makes him a big financial fight for the top names. None of the top name opponents want to face him (or their management doesn’t) unless they get paid megabucks because they know he will tear them a new one. Hes a boxer that’s delivers entertainment and will fight the top names in their own backyard for less money.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
The irony is act like a tool and call an opponent every name under the sun you will be told you cannot have the shot because you have disrepsected an opponent and they don't want to give you a payday. Its all BS, fighters sometimes just don't want to fight someone, as there is a chance they will lose, they will fit their excuses round the circumstances.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Most guys who are loudmouths to the press aren't half as exciting as GGG is in the ring. That's where he sells himself
John Bloody Wayne- Posts : 4460
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Wasn't it yesterday Rowley was having a little dig at me for suggesting Fury should have a little more humility especially when he had very little to be boastful about and how he thought humility in fighters/prospects was dull and now he's on saying that it's a trait that should be admired.
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Apparently Groves dropped him in sparring. Imagine Groves' walk around weight is a couple of stone up on GGG but still impressive if true.
Naturally there's a counter claim that Golovkin busted Groves' rib.
Naturally there's a counter claim that Golovkin busted Groves' rib.
John Bloody Wayne- Posts : 4460
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
DAVE667 wrote:Wasn't it yesterday Rowley was having a little dig at me for suggesting Fury should have a little more humility especially when he had very little to be boastful about and how he thought humility in fighters/prospects was dull and now he's on saying that it's a trait that should be admired.
I don't particularly care for Fury's antics, but they don't particularly wind me up either. However the author here is arguing that someone should seemingly aspire to those character traits. That I do have to disagree with, particularly as the fighter is someone who does not have to compensate for a lack of talent with outlandish behaviour.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
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Last edited by 88Chris05 on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Wrong article!)
88Chris05- Moderator
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
I don't think Jack's suggesting that GGG act like Tyson Fury, merely that his promotional team should be pushing his claims for a Cotto fight.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Golovkin's manager and promoter are as much to blame. They are not making the fights happen and are protecting their prize asset too much.
If Golovkin puts enough money on the table he will get whatever fight he wants.
If Golovkin puts enough money on the table he will get whatever fight he wants.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
One of the reasons I've gotten disillusioned with boxing over the past couple of years this. What you do or say outside the ring is often almost as important, if not as important, as what you do in the ring. At the top level anyway.
The straightforward way out would be to tighten the regulations pressuring the best to fight one another i.e. making it so the biggest paydays are only possible for the biggest profile fights. Unfortunately, with the history of promoters eager to ride the hype trains (and take a heavy slice of the pie) which could so easily be derailed if their guys were forced to fight the best available, that's about as likely to happen as me becoming unified champ tomorrow.
And besides that, the bodies which command a lot of the sport are very often spurred by the same motives which drive the promoters i.e. the WBC with their Silver and Diamond belts, the WBA with their 'regular' and 'super' champs etc
The straightforward way out would be to tighten the regulations pressuring the best to fight one another i.e. making it so the biggest paydays are only possible for the biggest profile fights. Unfortunately, with the history of promoters eager to ride the hype trains (and take a heavy slice of the pie) which could so easily be derailed if their guys were forced to fight the best available, that's about as likely to happen as me becoming unified champ tomorrow.
And besides that, the bodies which command a lot of the sport are very often spurred by the same motives which drive the promoters i.e. the WBC with their Silver and Diamond belts, the WBA with their 'regular' and 'super' champs etc
Knowsit17- Posts : 3284
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Golovkin has been calling Martinez out for years, he just hasn't been a dick about it. The serious talk behind it came to late in martinez's career, the pension fight with cotto was always going to have more appeal for the 40 year old crocked fighter.
In retrospect cotto's team not allowing Martinez a tuneup fight after the return from surgery was probably smart business from both sides, Martinez would have lost a tune-up.
In retrospect cotto's team not allowing Martinez a tuneup fight after the return from surgery was probably smart business from both sides, Martinez would have lost a tune-up.
jimdig- Posts : 1528
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
GGG has taken a while but now he's where he wants
Foreign with no fanbase and genuine power it was always gonna be hard but they've kept him busy and made hin look a million dollars
His fight agaisnt Stevens (a relative unknown) is the third highest viewed fight barring ppv fights shown by hbo this year and they said they expect the geale fight ti be the highest watched fight eclipsing Chavez jr Vera 2, kinda shows how he's come so far
Canelo and Cotto can't get away from questions about him now and he knows he can finally start getting the bigger fights
Foreign with no fanbase and genuine power it was always gonna be hard but they've kept him busy and made hin look a million dollars
His fight agaisnt Stevens (a relative unknown) is the third highest viewed fight barring ppv fights shown by hbo this year and they said they expect the geale fight ti be the highest watched fight eclipsing Chavez jr Vera 2, kinda shows how he's come so far
Canelo and Cotto can't get away from questions about him now and he knows he can finally start getting the bigger fights
WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs- Posts : 3136
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
He has no PPV pedigree unlike Canelo an Cotto.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Golovkin needs to start a fight at a press conference for either Canelo or Cotto. It did wonders for Chisora.
Atila- Posts : 1712
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Cotto v Golovkin would be a huge fight. The reason he hasn't the big fights is because hes too dangerous. If he was an easy fight then Martinez would have faced him.
His promotional team have done what they can which is get him fighting often and building up his profile on TV in the face of the bigger names simply wanting to overlook him in order to take safer fights.
If you want to avoid a fighter, you can make any number of reasons.
His promotional team have done what they can which is get him fighting often and building up his profile on TV in the face of the bigger names simply wanting to overlook him in order to take safer fights.
If you want to avoid a fighter, you can make any number of reasons.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Nobody avoids a fighter that brings money to the table. Golovkin's team need to dig deeper.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Strongback wrote:Nobody avoids a fighter that brings money to the table. Golovkin's team need to dig deeper.
That is why Manny vs Floyd was such a great fight.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Yes they do. They simply up the demands to unrealistic proportions. Golovkin brings money to the table. More than most. The problem is he just isn't worth the risk. Most of the big name fighters around him have been old are trying to squeeze the last bit of tlife out of there careers. The likes of Cotto, Froch or Martinez might have faced them when they were younger men but not now.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Rowley wrote:Strongback wrote:Nobody avoids a fighter that brings money to the table. Golovkin's team need to dig deeper.
That is why Manny vs Floyd was such a great fight.
That non-fight will go down in the lexicon partly because it didn't happen despite the money at stake. Quite unusual that one.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Strongback wrote:Golovkin's manager and promoter are as much to blame. They are not making the fights happen and are protecting their prize asset too much.
If Golovkin puts enough money on the table he will get whatever fight he wants.
What a ridiculous post. Offer money from where? A bank loan? A rich benefactor?
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
hazharrison wrote:Strongback wrote:Golovkin's manager and promoter are as much to blame. They are not making the fights happen and are protecting their prize asset too much.
If Golovkin puts enough money on the table he will get whatever fight he wants.
What a ridiculous post. Offer money from where? A bank loan? A rich benefactor?
Where did Don King get the $10 million purse for the Rumble in the Jungle? It's not like it was in his bank account.
It's a promoters job to raise the cash. Warren keeps telling us he isn't afraid to dig deep in his pockets to win a purse bid.
Golovkin has to generate the money and the interest to make people pay to watch him on PPV. At the moment he is protected and hasn't even fought at world class level but yet he should be able to cherry pick some of the top earners in the sport? Golovkin needs to step it up.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
So Tom Loeffler should try to borrow the money from a mad African dictator? This isn't Ali or Tyson we're dealing with here. Who has King managed to land a big fight for in recent years? Seriously, what planet are you on?
HBO bankroll Golovkin's fights. They've been steadily building his profile over the past few years (not easy when the fighter is foreign and speaks limited English). Once he tops Geale (and depending how well he sells at the Garden) they should be have sufficient leverage to position him for a fight against a marquee name.
Then he'll demolish them. Cotto, Canelo, Martinez -- he'll beat them to a pulp.
HBO bankroll Golovkin's fights. They've been steadily building his profile over the past few years (not easy when the fighter is foreign and speaks limited English). Once he tops Geale (and depending how well he sells at the Garden) they should be have sufficient leverage to position him for a fight against a marquee name.
Then he'll demolish them. Cotto, Canelo, Martinez -- he'll beat them to a pulp.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
He should fight rubio. That would generate money, I guess?
3fingers- Posts : 1482
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Haha, not alex arthur. I mean AA
3fingers- Posts : 1482
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Im not holding my breath for him getting a big name anytime soon though I hope Im wrong. Cotto V Alvarez looks to big not to happen and I expect Martinez will come back for one last ppv also against the winner.
I don't think there will queue at super middleweight either.
I don't think there will queue at super middleweight either.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Rubio makes sense because he opens the Mexican market (who aren't concerned whether you speak English, or not) to GGG. I can't see Rubio requesting outlandlish moneyat this stage in his career either. This is probably the biggest fight rubio could get before hev retires.
Arthur Abraham would be big name to claim during a transition to SMW. GGG woukd be able to assess whether his power careers to the higher weight, how an SMW deals with it, and how He deals with 'bigger' men.
Arthur Abraham would be big name to claim during a transition to SMW. GGG woukd be able to assess whether his power careers to the higher weight, how an SMW deals with it, and how He deals with 'bigger' men.
3fingers- Posts : 1482
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Soliman might be next if Cotto doesn't fancy it.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez throw his hat in the ring now he needs a leg up.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez throw his hat in the ring now he needs a leg up.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
A Martinez fight makes sense. Martinez, after losing, could say he dipped his foot in the pond one more time to see if he still has it, and hasn't. He could then retire with hus head held high with a few quid in his pocket.
3fingers- Posts : 1482
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Im sure Cotto would be delighted to give Martinez a rematch. They will probably wait 6 months and come back saying the leg is fully healed, Martinez is in the shape of his life, all injuries healed yada yada yada. I doubt he will even need a warm up fight. Macklin would also provide Cotto with a solid earning keep things ticking over opponent if he wins his eliminator. Even Chavez Jr might be tempted to hit the magic diet pills again if he sees Cotto and Alvarez available at middleweight.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
hazharrison wrote:So Tom Loeffler should try to borrow the money from a mad African dictator? This isn't Ali or Tyson we're dealing with here. Who has King managed to land a big fight for in recent years? Seriously, what planet are you on?
HBO bankroll Golovkin's fights. They've been steadily building his profile over the past few years (not easy when the fighter is foreign and speaks limited English). Once he tops Geale (and depending how well he sells at the Garden) they should be have sufficient leverage to position him for a fight against a marquee name.
Then he'll demolish them. Cotto, Canelo, Martinez -- he'll beat them to a pulp.
Don King is in his 80's. As a promoter King had a long career of making things happen as the dogs in the street know.
Why is Golovkin with Tom Loeffler if he has ambition? Why not Arum or Golden Boy if he really wants the big time? You really are myopic on this kid.
I'll reserve my judgement on GGG until he steps up his class of opponent. He's one of the most protected supposedly big name fighters around. When's it going to happen? Golovkin is already 32 ffs!
Strongback- Posts : 6529
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
He is not protected though, he has been avoided by the big names. Martinez avoided him like the plague.
The guy is busting his balls trying to boost raise his profile. He delivers excitement and knockouts. He is open to fighting the top names in multiple divisions in their own backyard. He doesn't demand excess money. Why wouldn't anyone want to get behind him? Kovalov is in a similar spot at light heavyweight where HBO were clearly building him up hoping to get a Stevenson fight before Stevenson opted out.
The blame for the Martinez fight not happening clearly lies with Martinez. Having preached for ages about being avoided by Chavez he went and did the same to Golovkin because they knew he wasn't up to the challenge. Di Bella put Macklin in with Golovkin to test the water and after that he wasn't going to risk Martinez.
The guy is busting his balls trying to boost raise his profile. He delivers excitement and knockouts. He is open to fighting the top names in multiple divisions in their own backyard. He doesn't demand excess money. Why wouldn't anyone want to get behind him? Kovalov is in a similar spot at light heavyweight where HBO were clearly building him up hoping to get a Stevenson fight before Stevenson opted out.
The blame for the Martinez fight not happening clearly lies with Martinez. Having preached for ages about being avoided by Chavez he went and did the same to Golovkin because they knew he wasn't up to the challenge. Di Bella put Macklin in with Golovkin to test the water and after that he wasn't going to risk Martinez.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Does anyone feel that these MWs mentioned such as Cotto, Canelo etc can trouble him? I can't, think he cleans the division easily as he has too much power. Would personally love to se him step up to SMW and take on the bigger guys like Ward, Froch, Groves.
However I can completely see why he wouldn't move up as he has too much unfinished business at MW. Hope he gets close to unifying the division.
However I can completely see why he wouldn't move up as he has too much unfinished business at MW. Hope he gets close to unifying the division.
theanimal316- Posts : 471
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Strange one for me. I want to see Canelo Cotto more than any other fight around that weight, although I don't see them as proper middleweights. From a title point of view it would be a little hollow as for me GGG is the no.1 at the weight.
I'd rather see him step up to be honest and see how he gets on at 168.
I'd rather see him step up to be honest and see how he gets on at 168.
Dipper Brown- Posts : 1315
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Golovkin can be out boxed, as we have seen in the amateurs, but he has the power to KO any middleweight in the world, and the chin to take punches till he lands. Personally, I think he'll struggle a little more at SMW, there are good boxers at the weight. He's an unbeatable middleweight but a VERY beatable supermiddleweight.
3fingers- Posts : 1482
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Hugh McIlvanney hasn't said it's his fault..
So argument over...Finished...End of !!!
Now let's move on...
So argument over...Finished...End of !!!
Now let's move on...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
If they can make Froch GGG I think that would be a terrific fight. Carl Froch would say 'warrior' so many times Steffan would have a stroke!
Dipper Brown- Posts : 1315
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
It would be an interesting test of Canelo's principles if he were to face and beat Cotto for the Middleweight title.
Canelo has openly stated that he won't fight for titles in a division where he knows he isn't the undisputed champion (or words to that effect). If he grabbed the green belt at 160 then his principles would surely make him face GGG to allow him to find out exactly where he stands in that division.
What am I thinking though, I must be living in a fantasy world if I think that the fighter actually choses whom he faces. How stupid of me...
Canelo has openly stated that he won't fight for titles in a division where he knows he isn't the undisputed champion (or words to that effect). If he grabbed the green belt at 160 then his principles would surely make him face GGG to allow him to find out exactly where he stands in that division.
What am I thinking though, I must be living in a fantasy world if I think that the fighter actually choses whom he faces. How stupid of me...
CallMeBenji- Posts : 110
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
If Canelo beats Cotto he's the champion at middleweight - end of story. He's probably GGG's best hope of a championship fight, though.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
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Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Strongback wrote:hazharrison wrote:So Tom Loeffler should try to borrow the money from a mad African dictator? This isn't Ali or Tyson we're dealing with here. Who has King managed to land a big fight for in recent years? Seriously, what planet are you on?
HBO bankroll Golovkin's fights. They've been steadily building his profile over the past few years (not easy when the fighter is foreign and speaks limited English). Once he tops Geale (and depending how well he sells at the Garden) they should be have sufficient leverage to position him for a fight against a marquee name.
Then he'll demolish them. Cotto, Canelo, Martinez -- he'll beat them to a pulp.
Don King is in his 80's. As a promoter King had a long career of making things happen as the dogs in the street know.
Why is Golovkin with Tom Loeffler if he has ambition? Why not Arum or Golden Boy if he really wants the big time? You really are myopic on this kid.
I'll reserve my judgement on GGG until he steps up his class of opponent. He's one of the most protected supposedly big name fighters around. When's it going to happen? Golovkin is already 32 ffs!
Only he isn't protected. Fighters keep turning him down - Chavez Jr. for example should have been facing him on PPV this month but bailed out. Being willing to fight all comers who turn you down because you're a monster isn't being protected.
As for stepping up in class: Who apart from Martinez (prior to the Cotto beat down) qualified as being higher class? (And Golovkin was open to fight Martinez donkeys ago).
Why would he sign with Golden Boy when HBO have built his career? What fight would Golden Boy offer other than Quillin (what's he going to do - pound Quillin over and over?).
Cotto may be a star now but it took years for Arum to build him into an attraction in NY. Arum couldn't even get Chavez - a fighter contracted to him - to fight Golovkin, so where's the sense in signing with him if he's comfortable with Loeffler?
This is another example of contrary forum beasts spinning the obvious to suit a trumped up agenda. Yet none of you will bet cash against Golovkin. Geale, Soliman, Chavez, Martinez, Canelo, Floyd, Cotto: he beats the lot. Ward might nullify him with his hit and hug routine but that's about it.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
Join date : 2011-03-26
Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
How come Golovkin is willing to fight Chavez at SMW but not A Ward or Froch. I would suggest that's cherry picking. Funny how Trip G is willing to take on top fighters from lower weight divisions but won't look to SMW unless it's a very winnable fight.
Anyway we know why Chavez v Golovkin fell through and it was purely down to money and Arum trying to coerce Chavez into contract extensions. An article from the Ring on this is below.
Golovkin is a good fighter but your love for him has blinded you to some of the more cynical ways he has been promoted. Why is he calling out a welterweight in Mayweather when Floyd's people have said he will never fight a full on middleweight.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lem Satterfield
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. ‘mistreated’ in Golovkin talks, says manager
May 8, 2014
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.'s manager, Billy Keane, contends that the Mexican star was undervalued and treated unfairly during negotiations for a 168-pound matchup with WBA middleweight titleholder Gennady Golovkin. This countered an earlier assertion by Top Rank CEO Bob Arum that the 28-year-old son of the legendary champion turned down "a crazy, unbelievable offer" that he insisted was "still better than what Golovkin accepted for the fight."
"I didn't reveal any numbers during my first go-round in interviews because, first of all, Bob originally asked me not to speak to the media," said Keane. "He wanted to craft a statement when it looked like the fight may not happen that we did not come to a meeting of the minds and that we did not want to discuss terms. I respected that until he gave an interview.
"Now, it's not my preference or Julio's preference to get into a media expose on how Top Rank has mistreated Julio during these negotiations, but I do have to correct the misrepresentation that Bob [is] making. I did that yesterday, but I did not mention any specific numbers, but since today, Bob has gone on record with the specific numbers, I feel comfortable doing that."
Keane was not available for an immediate comment earlier on Thursday when Arum revealed his original offer to RingTV.com, one the promoter said was inclusive of two fights within the terms of the existing contract, which Arum said lasts through October 2015 with Chavez.
"It called for the Golovkin fight to pay him a minimum $7 million, and if he lost that fight, we guaranteed him another fight for $5 million. Now if he beat Golovkin, then we would pay him a minimum for his next fight of $10 million," said Arum, during his earlier interview with RingTV.com.
"So we would … do these two fights, and the minimum he would make is $12 million, and if he was successful, $17 million plus. He turned that offer down. So we offered him a one-fight offer at considerably less money but still better than what Golovkin accepted for the fight and he turned that down. So, obviously, he doesn't want the fight and we go on with our business."
While Keane disagreed slightly on the numbers mentioned by Arum, he strongly disliked the method in which he felt Chavez was treated, including his belief that there were "attempts to coerce Julio into signing extensions."
"The offer was a $6.6 million guarantee for Julio to fight Golovkin, which included two extensions. Although we considered that offer a below-market offer for a pay-per-view fight of this stature, Julio, nonetheless, immediately responded to all of the fight terms. It was a fight that he wanted, it was a fight that the people wanted, and he wanted to give them that," said Keane.
"What he did not agree to was a two-fight extension. But Everything else, he agreed to. There were multiple other offers by Top Rank that always included extensions. The last one is correct. Bob did offer him a $7 million guarantee with a one-fight extension, and $10 million if he won, $5 million if he lost. Again, we accepted the fight, but not the extensions."
Keane said that Arum "then came back to us with a standalone fight with no extensions for a $2 million guaranteed purse," and that Top Rank would not budge on its final one-fight offer.
"That's $5 million less and a more than 70 percent decrease than his first offer, and an upside that didn't kick in until there were 375,000 buys. This is the exact same guarantee offered to Golovkin," said Keane. "But with all due respect to Golovkin, there is no scenario where anyone believes that Chavez and Golovkin are in parity and that they should be making the same, or similar or even in the same ballpark the amount of money."
Asked if he would continue to work with Top Rank to make a Golovkin fight, Keane said, "Of course."
"This is a fight that Julio wants. He just wants to be treated fairly. I really do hope that this is the last go-around with misrepresentations by Top Rank," said Keane. "Or I will be forced to go into even greater detail about Top Rank's attempts to be unfair and inequitable in its attempts to coerce Julio into signing extensions. I will not hesitate to use emails, texts and multiple contracts to prove these points. It's entirely up to Top Rank where they want to be."
Anyway we know why Chavez v Golovkin fell through and it was purely down to money and Arum trying to coerce Chavez into contract extensions. An article from the Ring on this is below.
Golovkin is a good fighter but your love for him has blinded you to some of the more cynical ways he has been promoted. Why is he calling out a welterweight in Mayweather when Floyd's people have said he will never fight a full on middleweight.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lem Satterfield
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. ‘mistreated’ in Golovkin talks, says manager
May 8, 2014
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.'s manager, Billy Keane, contends that the Mexican star was undervalued and treated unfairly during negotiations for a 168-pound matchup with WBA middleweight titleholder Gennady Golovkin. This countered an earlier assertion by Top Rank CEO Bob Arum that the 28-year-old son of the legendary champion turned down "a crazy, unbelievable offer" that he insisted was "still better than what Golovkin accepted for the fight."
"I didn't reveal any numbers during my first go-round in interviews because, first of all, Bob originally asked me not to speak to the media," said Keane. "He wanted to craft a statement when it looked like the fight may not happen that we did not come to a meeting of the minds and that we did not want to discuss terms. I respected that until he gave an interview.
"Now, it's not my preference or Julio's preference to get into a media expose on how Top Rank has mistreated Julio during these negotiations, but I do have to correct the misrepresentation that Bob [is] making. I did that yesterday, but I did not mention any specific numbers, but since today, Bob has gone on record with the specific numbers, I feel comfortable doing that."
Keane was not available for an immediate comment earlier on Thursday when Arum revealed his original offer to RingTV.com, one the promoter said was inclusive of two fights within the terms of the existing contract, which Arum said lasts through October 2015 with Chavez.
"It called for the Golovkin fight to pay him a minimum $7 million, and if he lost that fight, we guaranteed him another fight for $5 million. Now if he beat Golovkin, then we would pay him a minimum for his next fight of $10 million," said Arum, during his earlier interview with RingTV.com.
"So we would … do these two fights, and the minimum he would make is $12 million, and if he was successful, $17 million plus. He turned that offer down. So we offered him a one-fight offer at considerably less money but still better than what Golovkin accepted for the fight and he turned that down. So, obviously, he doesn't want the fight and we go on with our business."
While Keane disagreed slightly on the numbers mentioned by Arum, he strongly disliked the method in which he felt Chavez was treated, including his belief that there were "attempts to coerce Julio into signing extensions."
"The offer was a $6.6 million guarantee for Julio to fight Golovkin, which included two extensions. Although we considered that offer a below-market offer for a pay-per-view fight of this stature, Julio, nonetheless, immediately responded to all of the fight terms. It was a fight that he wanted, it was a fight that the people wanted, and he wanted to give them that," said Keane.
"What he did not agree to was a two-fight extension. But Everything else, he agreed to. There were multiple other offers by Top Rank that always included extensions. The last one is correct. Bob did offer him a $7 million guarantee with a one-fight extension, and $10 million if he won, $5 million if he lost. Again, we accepted the fight, but not the extensions."
Keane said that Arum "then came back to us with a standalone fight with no extensions for a $2 million guaranteed purse," and that Top Rank would not budge on its final one-fight offer.
"That's $5 million less and a more than 70 percent decrease than his first offer, and an upside that didn't kick in until there were 375,000 buys. This is the exact same guarantee offered to Golovkin," said Keane. "But with all due respect to Golovkin, there is no scenario where anyone believes that Chavez and Golovkin are in parity and that they should be making the same, or similar or even in the same ballpark the amount of money."
Asked if he would continue to work with Top Rank to make a Golovkin fight, Keane said, "Of course."
"This is a fight that Julio wants. He just wants to be treated fairly. I really do hope that this is the last go-around with misrepresentations by Top Rank," said Keane. "Or I will be forced to go into even greater detail about Top Rank's attempts to be unfair and inequitable in its attempts to coerce Julio into signing extensions. I will not hesitate to use emails, texts and multiple contracts to prove these points. It's entirely up to Top Rank where they want to be."
Strongback- Posts : 6529
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Matchroom Sports Head Office
Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
I already posted that on a previous thread . So again: why would Golovkin sign with Arum? Why wouldn't Chavez accept an extension for money like that?
Has Golovkin been offered a Froch or Ward fight? A Froch fight makes no sense for either party at this stage.
So all promoting is cynical right? Give me an example of a good promoter.
Has Golovkin been offered a Froch or Ward fight? A Froch fight makes no sense for either party at this stage.
So all promoting is cynical right? Give me an example of a good promoter.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
Join date : 2011-03-26
Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
hazharrison wrote:I already posted that on a previous thread . So again: why would Golovkin sign with Arum? Why wouldn't Chavez accept an extension for money like that?
Has Golovkin been offered a Froch or Ward fight? A Froch fight makes no sense for either party at this stage.
So all promoting is cynical right? Give me an example of a good promoter.
I'll make a few points:
- It has been argued that GGG should not have to look to SMW to get a fight because he wants to clean out the MW division first. Why then is he calling out welterweights and LMW's?
- Why is he chasing a fight against the weakest SMW 'name' in Chavez but not going after the whole division?
- GGG wants a big pay day versus the weakest possible PPV fighters he can get without earning it. Cotto, Canelo and Chavez have been matched in some very tough fights and lost on occasion to get where they are. GGG wants to swan in and rob the cookie jar.
- Much like you I don't fully buy into the Canelo hype but the guy is willing to take hard fights in the way Oscar did. That's what gets a fighter PPV status.
- It's a promoters job to get his fighter into big fights resulting in big pay days. This isn't happening with Golovkin. Look at Oscar taking on Hopkins because that was the money fight. I am not seeing that ambition from GGG.
- Golovkin's management want the easiest PPV opponent they can get when they should be making more eye catching fights than soft match ups against the likes of Macklin and Geale. GGG needs to be in a genuine 50/50 fight for people to take real interest.
- Chasing Cotto is a pipe dream as he will fight Canelo for huge money and probably get beat.
- While GGG is waiting for Canelo he should take on a significant fight and should be just as willing to go up in weight to SMW as he seems to be to go down to LMW.
- Nobody is going to give Golovkin an easy payday for free. He needs to earn it. His promoter must understand that by now.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Matchroom Sports Head Office
Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
Also....
Chavez Jr was offered $2M for a standalone fight with Golovkin that would finish his contract with Arum. That was an insult considering the first offer that was made.
Anyway time will tell if Chavez walks away from Arum or if this was a duck.
Chavez Jr was offered $2M for a standalone fight with Golovkin that would finish his contract with Arum. That was an insult considering the first offer that was made.
Anyway time will tell if Chavez walks away from Arum or if this was a duck.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Matchroom Sports Head Office
Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
I'll make a few points:
- It has been argued that GGG should not have to look to SMW to get a fight because he wants to clean out the MW division first. Why then is he calling out welterweights and LMW's?
He's called out Floyd. Everyone within 20 pounds of Mayweather wants that fight for obvious reasons.
- Why is he chasing a fight against the weakest SMW 'name' in Chavez but not going after the whole division?
He hasn't chased Chavez - he was offered the fight (HBO wanted it).
- GGG wants a big pay day versus the weakest possible PPV fighters he can get without earning it. Cotto, Canelo and Chavez have been matched in some very tough fights and lost on occasion to get where they are. GGG wants to swan in and rob the cookie jar.
Golovkin merely wants a chance to call himself the best in the world. It's kinda a thing.
- Much like you I don't fully buy into the Canelo hype but the guy is willing to take hard fights in the way Oscar did. That's what gets a fighter PPV status.
Canelo can fight who he pleases as he's an attraction. If Golovkin had his pull (and there's nothing to suggest he won't in time) he'd be fighting the top names also.
- It's a promoters job to get his fighter into big fights resulting in big pay days. This isn't happening with Golovkin. Look at Oscar taking on Hopkins because that was the money fight. I am not seeing that ambition from GGG.
Which money fight are we talking? Ward? Froch? They pale in comparison to a Chavez fight (yet you've criticised him for trying to make that one).
- Golovkin's management want the easiest PPV opponent they can get when they should be making more eye catching fights than soft match ups against the likes of Macklin and Geale. GGG needs to be in a genuine 50/50 fight for people to take real interest.
He can only fight men who'll get in the ring with him. There is no evidence to suggest Team Golovkin have ever passed up a tough fight for an easy payday.
- Chasing Cotto is a pipe dream as he will fight Canelo for huge money and probably get beat.
Moot point.
- While GGG is waiting for Canelo he should take on a significant fight and should be just as willing to go up in weight to SMW as he seems to be to go down to LMW.
He's only offered to go down to 154 for Floyd - the exception rather than the rule.
- Nobody is going to give Golovkin an easy payday for free. He needs to earn it. His promoter must understand that by now.
You don't understand the process - that's an ignorant point.
- It has been argued that GGG should not have to look to SMW to get a fight because he wants to clean out the MW division first. Why then is he calling out welterweights and LMW's?
He's called out Floyd. Everyone within 20 pounds of Mayweather wants that fight for obvious reasons.
- Why is he chasing a fight against the weakest SMW 'name' in Chavez but not going after the whole division?
He hasn't chased Chavez - he was offered the fight (HBO wanted it).
- GGG wants a big pay day versus the weakest possible PPV fighters he can get without earning it. Cotto, Canelo and Chavez have been matched in some very tough fights and lost on occasion to get where they are. GGG wants to swan in and rob the cookie jar.
Golovkin merely wants a chance to call himself the best in the world. It's kinda a thing.
- Much like you I don't fully buy into the Canelo hype but the guy is willing to take hard fights in the way Oscar did. That's what gets a fighter PPV status.
Canelo can fight who he pleases as he's an attraction. If Golovkin had his pull (and there's nothing to suggest he won't in time) he'd be fighting the top names also.
- It's a promoters job to get his fighter into big fights resulting in big pay days. This isn't happening with Golovkin. Look at Oscar taking on Hopkins because that was the money fight. I am not seeing that ambition from GGG.
Which money fight are we talking? Ward? Froch? They pale in comparison to a Chavez fight (yet you've criticised him for trying to make that one).
- Golovkin's management want the easiest PPV opponent they can get when they should be making more eye catching fights than soft match ups against the likes of Macklin and Geale. GGG needs to be in a genuine 50/50 fight for people to take real interest.
He can only fight men who'll get in the ring with him. There is no evidence to suggest Team Golovkin have ever passed up a tough fight for an easy payday.
- Chasing Cotto is a pipe dream as he will fight Canelo for huge money and probably get beat.
Moot point.
- While GGG is waiting for Canelo he should take on a significant fight and should be just as willing to go up in weight to SMW as he seems to be to go down to LMW.
He's only offered to go down to 154 for Floyd - the exception rather than the rule.
- Nobody is going to give Golovkin an easy payday for free. He needs to earn it. His promoter must understand that by now.
You don't understand the process - that's an ignorant point.
hazharrison- Posts : 7540
Join date : 2011-03-26
Re: Golovkin only has himself to blame....
I think GGG would fight Canelo at 154.
You can breeze over my points but to say there is no substance in any of them is unadulterated partisanship towards GGG on your part. Rose tinted myopia.
You can breeze over my points but to say there is no substance in any of them is unadulterated partisanship towards GGG on your part. Rose tinted myopia.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Matchroom Sports Head Office
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