England v India 3rd Test, Ageas Bowl

by msp83 Fri 25 Jul 2014, 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Lets get in the thread early enough.
India 1-0 up and now is the time to keep up the leel of intensity.
For England a few careers might depend on a quick turnaround in fortune here.
The pitch is reported to have some green on it and is expected to be in between the ugly pathetic track for the Trent Bridge and a lively track for the 2nd test at the HQ.
Not many reports on the England xi, but there are indications that Stuart Binny will be out for India, and by reports coming in now, its Rohit Sharma who might come in.

by alfie Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:31 pm

Jordan has to come off. All over the place...get Woakes back.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:34 pm

Possibly the worst spell of quick bowling I've seen this summer from Jordan. Needs to be taken off and to regroup at lunch

by Mike Selig Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:36 pm

Jordan's got the yips. That's never a nice place to be, but when part of an all-seam 4-man attack in a must win test match that's even worse I guess.

I agree with Warne he could try around the wicket because it can help get your action back.

Broad at mid-on has a role to play here, needs to help him relax a bit.

Pitch has plenty of carry now.

by Mike Selig Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:41 pm

mystiroakey wrote: Line and length. thats all

Much easier said than done I'm afraid.

alfie wrote:Jordan has to come off. All over the place...get Woakes back.

Fine line though. Jordan has to bowl at some stage, every time you take him off his confidence takes that little bit more of a bash.

Woakes on now for Broad. I expect England will try to make sure they have one of Anderson and Broad bowling through most of the day.

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:49 pm

Woakes is bowling too wide......a containing line, looks like a bowler who "thinks" his job is to contain and not attack.

as I wrote last night........Ind has to be wary of Anderson and Broad....and those two also cannot keep the same pace and intensity all day

by alfie Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:53 pm

You do indeed have to give Jordan his chance : and I'm not blind to the issue of confidence.
But I think with Broad pressing hard one end , and three down already , it was a bad time for the other bowler to be donating free runs.
I'd have had him off a bit sooner ; well I say that - but in reality I've been there often enough as a captain , and sometimes I've given the young fellow another one in hopes etc...can't blame Cook for his choice.
Ali should have had one then , but ...a few decisions making the case for drs in this game...

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:55 pm

AJINKYA RAHANE IS A Poopie BLOKE

by Mike Selig Tue 29 Jul 2014, 12:56 pm

Woakes has looked OK but I agree with Gerry he seems to swing it out the hand mainly. Looks a bit more dangerous when he goes wide on the crease and angles it in more.

Rahane has looked a bit fidgety this innings - played at a couple away from his body, a couple of nervous hooks. Now he gets away with a tickle down leg off Moeen Ali. Very tough for the umpire to give those, easy enough with DRS. How England would have loved that one before lunch.

by msp83 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:03 pm

India go to lunch at 108-3. Kohli has survived so far and has 18 on the board, and Rahane is on 11, survived with a bit of luck on the way.

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:03 pm

Fairly even session. England will be happy to see the back of Vijay, would've been happier with Rahane

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:04 pm

--Rahane decision and the on-field umpiring in general shows.......how these little microscopic touches and marginal decisions are best left to go with the flow of the onfield umpire.

--and that these things even out with time........plus there are no controversies.
India needs all the luck that Eng had.....1.5 drop catch per 50 runs that any bastman got.

--the only glaring error was when referred to the 3rd umpire and he made a mess of slip catch

by mystiroakey Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:10 pm

KP fan mate Wink

No one is buying it. We all rate DRS, I would like to see a couple of changes , but no one will get swayed by your constant referring to DRS being proved to be a bad system every time a bad call is given by the umpires Shocked

by Mike Selig Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:13 pm

KP_fan wrote:--Rahane decision and the on-field umpiring in general shows.......how these little microscopic touches and marginal decisions are best left to go with the flow of the onfield umpire.

--and that these things even out with time........plus there are no controversies.
India needs all the luck that Eng had.....1.5 drop catch per 50 runs that any bastman got.

--the only glaring error was when referred to the 3rd umpire and he made a mess of slip catch

Hahahahahahahahahaha very good satire

oh wait, you were serious?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:15 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
oh wait, you were serious?

KP_fan

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:19 pm

Just lolz

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:37 pm

mystiroakey wrote:KP fan mate

No one is buying it. We all rate DRS, I would like to see a couple of changes , but no one will get swayed by your constant referring to DRS being proved to be a bad system every time a bad call is given by the umpires

no one's buying it ???
ECb and BCCI and ICC have bought it ( ie not using it).....and that is why its not being used.

and i simply observe they have all made a good decision

by mystiroakey Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:40 pm

I am talking about us on here Wink

The ECB have no say as its been agreed both teams have to allow its usage..

by msp83 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:46 pm

I like the game to have more correct decisions. I don't think decisions even out, it really doesn't work that way.
I am though, not convinced by the howler argument that is dusted off each time the DRS makes a mess of things or when too much of luck comes into the scenario with the benefit of doubt to the umpire system that DRS seems to have conventionalized.
I hope there is a more polished DRS that is evenly applied everywhere, and the BCCI could drop their stubbornness about the system.
There are problems with the BCCI's position on the issue, but the big 3 and the rest of the cricketing world has to take the responsibility for theuneven application of the DRS even when it is applied for non-India games.

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I am talking about us on here

The ECB have no say as its been agreed both teams have to allow its usage..

-us here includes those who do no prefer DRS usage in present form.

--so ECB agreed that one party can veto the usage ?? Instead of agreeing that its should be used universally with no exceptions.

so ECB has a say and has used their say to agree for a non universal implementation

by mystiroakey Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:53 pm

Even though i have argued that DRS could be changed for the better and possibly should. I have posted 1000's of posts in the past with my feelings on it. I still prefer DRS as it is to no DRS. There are only a small minority on here that prefer no DRS to this DRS(possibly just you)

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:54 pm

Kohli beginning to get going after lunch.

Still a good pitch, have to be patient.

by Stella Tue 29 Jul 2014, 1:55 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Even though i have argued that DRS could be changed for the better and possibly should. I have posted 1000's of posts in the past with my feelings on it. I still prefer DRS as it is to no DRS. There are only a small minority on here that prefer no DRS to this DRS(possibly just you)

Me to.

by liverbnz Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:13 pm

Regardless of whether you are pro DRS or not, that logic the 'decisions even themselves out' is absolutely ludicrous. How on earth could they? Is there some arbitar of luck hidden somewhere tallying up every bit of misfortune so they can later level it up? Crazy!

by mystiroakey Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:14 pm

England are getting wickets at key times- not allowing partnerships to build.

by liverbnz Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:15 pm

Kohli gone! England well on top now.

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

He'll be annoyed with that Kohli, got himself in on a good pitch.

by Stella Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

liverbnz wrote:Regardless of whether you are pro DRS or not, that logic that 'decisions even themselves out' is absolutely ludicrous. How on earth could they? Is there some arbitar of luck hidden somewhere tallying up every bit of misfortune so they can later level it up? Crazy!

I say let the umpires do their jobs, and accept the mistakes, much like in Football.

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

msp83 wrote:
I hope there is a more polished DRS that is evenly applied everywhere, and the BCCI could drop their stubbornness about the system.
There are problems with the BCCI's position on the issue, but the big 3 and the rest of the cricketing world has to take the responsibility for theuneven application of the DRS even when it is applied for non-India games.

BCCI sound stubborn and bully .......largely because their spokesmen are old bureaucratic babus who are not good in using English language ( but still use it to deliver messages) and completely lack the finesse, sophistication and do not use trained media communictaion experts to make their point across more professionally
Underlying BCCI genreally have a logic. On the DRS issue the likes of Dhoni and Sachin have given some key change points whihc Hawk-Eye and ICC have not shown inclinaton to address :

1) DRS should be not a clever man's strategic tool...but rather an average bloke's tool.
so things like ball clipping the stumps should either be out.....or not out...regardless of umpire's call.

cannot lose reviews after 3 call.....maybe 5 or 10.

How you do it.......is your problem DRS and ICC

2) Hotspot is c.rap......don't talk about it.

3) trajectory projection.......prove it to us that the projected trajectory is calibrated to varying pitch conditions from Colombo to Perth to Mumbai to auckland

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:18 pm

Stella wrote:
liverbnz wrote:Regardless of whether you are pro DRS or not, that logic that 'decisions even themselves out' is absolutely ludicrous. How on earth could they? Is there some arbitar of luck hidden somewhere tallying up every bit of misfortune so they can later level it up? Crazy!

I say let the umpires do their jobs, and accept the mistakes, much like in Football.

I dislike the idea of using it for every marginal decision, but I don't see how decisions made clear using technology cannot be used.

by mystiroakey Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

Politics first

the DRS debate

Tells me one .... England are doing well Wink

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:21 pm

Jordan a bit tighter in that last over, some pressure applied.

by mystiroakey Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:23 pm

Yep much better. He needs to get to his allocation today as Ali's spin isn't a good option on this pitch so far.

by kingraf Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:26 pm

Kohli has had a few off dismissals this series. They seem nearly suicidal.

by kingraf Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:32 pm

I get the sense Chris Jordan is looking for too much. Could be symptomatic of a player who had a good series, and got dropped because he wasn't particularly rich of wickets, against Sri Lanka. Always difficult for players, especially bowlers to come back having been dropped following a test/tests they weren't particularly poor in. The tendency is to over compensate.

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:38 pm

Could do with Jordan or Woakes chipping in with a couple now.

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:39 pm

it's an important game for Rohit......if he bats well here......he can edge Dhawan out.....with Pujara moving to open the inning....even if Ind wants to play ashwin in next game

by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 29 Jul 2014, 2:40 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Politics first

the DRS debate

Tells me one .... England are doing well

Absolutely, next it will be the amount of non Englishman in the team next. That 's an old favourite that gets rolled out when England are doing well.

by msp83 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:17 pm

First half-century partnership for India in the innings. The job has only started for the 2 Mumbai lads.

by Gerry SA Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:18 pm

Gonna throw out a prediction here.

If India bat until lunch D4, they'll be 150-180 runs behind England. I'm assuming they'll be all out by lunch D4.

So they would be 60/63 overs left on D4. With England already 150-180 in credit.

How many would YOU GUYS be happy to set India.

I'd stay 375-400 in 3 1/2 sessions would be a decent target.

Obviously this is hypothetical as England will enforce follow on if India don't reach the target.

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:33 pm

Gerry SA wrote: Gonna throw out a prediction here.

If India bat until lunch D4, they'll be 150-180 runs behind England. I'm assuming they'll be all out by lunch D4.

So they would be 60/63 overs left on D4. With England already 150-180 in credit.

How many would YOU GUYS be happy to set India.

I'd stay 375-400 in 3 1/2 sessions would be a decent target.

Obviously this is hypothetical as England will enforce follow on if India don't reach the target.

your scenario in bold appears realistic

the underlined target is too risky......375 in 105 overs( that also if Eng can get 225 runs in 45 overs)......if dhawan gets going.......and dhoni promotes himself and jadeja can be knocked off......puts Eng defeat a 30% scenario....

and if Cook bats longer then he is killing the game towards a draw....

that's why i said Eng were too slow in first 4 session.....certainly the 4th session slow-ness is putting draw into the equation as a strong possibility

by kingraf Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:35 pm

Andrew Strauss just called Woakes a like for like replacement for Tim Bresnan. Everyone loves a trier.

by liverbnz Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:36 pm

Gift for England and Ali. Sharma gone.

by kingraf Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:37 pm

375 off 105 is not a 30% India win scenario. Not in a million years.

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:39 pm

well Rohit blows up a great opportunity.....similar to Binny's dismissal.......and looking at replays both guys did not pick the attempted Doosra from Moeen.

not quite an ajmal like leg-break doosra but one that just straightens

by KP_fan Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:41 pm

kingraf wrote:375 off 105 is not a 30% India win scenario. Not in a million years.

doesn't matter if it is even 20%.......it puts the same fear in the mind of opponent captain.
and if Dawan gets a 70 odd......it is doable

by msp83 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:42 pm

The Offspinner flattered to deceive, not for the first time in his bloody career!. What a joker!.

by GSC Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:42 pm

Hes just rubbish enough to get batsmen to overlook him is Ali.

by msp83 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:46 pm

MS can't defend and survive, he better play his shots, and if he gets in, India can get closer to that follow-on target that looks miles away at the moment.
His 80 ball 19 had its significance in the last game, but that won't do any favors to his side here. He picked the brainless joker rather than Ashwin, he was mostly switched off for the first 2 days as skipper, now is the time for Dhoni to try and make a significant contribution to the attempts to save the game.

by msp83 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:47 pm

Another 12 overs to the new ball, the lower order is sure to struggle against the new ball, so India should score at least 50 without loss in the next 12 overs if they are to have a fighting chance to save the game. Looking rather grim as of now.

by Duty281 Tue 29 Jul 2014, 3:48 pm

Ridiculous dismissal, even more so when one takes into account the time and match situation. England might have been slightly wary had they gone in at the break with India four down, but now it's five down, and Cook will have one eye on finishing this innings tonight.

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