England v India 3rd Test, Ageas Bowl

First topic message reminder :

Lets get in the thread early enough.
India 1-0 up and now is the time to keep up the leel of intensity.
For England a few careers might depend on a quick turnaround in fortune here.
The pitch is reported to have some green on it and is expected to be in between the ugly pathetic track for the Trent Bridge and a lively track for the 2nd test at the HQ.
Not many reports on the England xi, but there are indications that Stuart Binny will be out for India, and by reports coming in now, its Rohit Sharma who might come in.

Was a decent session for India before that wicket but now its pretty even.

Moeen removes Rahane.

India in a spot of bother

This is where the Test will be won for England.

Get these last four wickets tonight, and victory is in one hand. Be clinical!

Total self-distruction from India.

Ali is doing them ragged.

Super Mo!

Both Dhoni and Jadeja should look to cash in on every scoring opportunity. Not the safest bets when it comes to the new ball. Can't let these overs the new ball go.

New ball just around the corner, this could be all over rather very quickly for India.

Tough chance for Root goes down.

Must say, without absolutely no bias at all, the Ageas Bowl looking beautiful.

Woakes on early with the new ball. Cook seems to be planning for Broad to take over ones Anderson is done with his spell. Better management of bowlers from Cook.

I'd say it's more to do with broad bowling rubbish with the new ball

Jadeja must be so frustrating to bowl at. Looks absolutely rubbish most of the time, then slogs you all over the place.

England need to break this partnership ASAP. Stick to their lengths against Jadeja, just hit a length outside off. Too much too full or too short.

Kumar time... This is my favourite part of the innings

Just as I type that Anderson comes up with the perfect inswinger and gets a bit of revenge over Jadeja, out LBW.

Anderson has really bowled beautifully so far.

England looking to get India out for around 320 or so which would really put them in the driving seat. India will be hoping Kumar and co can do as they've done all season.

If we get the chance, I don't think we should enforce the follow on

In fact I'm usually against it unless it's an obvious one

Unless India were blown away I don't think the plan was ever to enforce the follow-on. Bowlers have done 90+. They'll need a rest.

india has to keep scraping....see of the day first

If we get the chance, I don't think we should enforce the follow on

In fact I'm usually against it unless it's an obvious one

Anderson has done a great job today. The dangerous Jadeja gone ...but now England's nemesis with the bat : Kumar !
Jokes aside they've found him very hard to get past in this series. Really need Woakes or Jordan to make some contribution in the wicket column...

England won't enforce the follow on if they get it

Ali has nine wickets in this series. He'd be the premier all rounder in this series, if it wasn't for Kumar, who's having a Botham like series

Olly wrote:If we get the chance, I don't think we should enforce the follow on

In fact I'm usually against it unless it's an obvious one

Can't see it , Olly. Broad battling a bit with a niggle , Anderson has bowled a lot of overs - and although Woakes has threatened at times too much really does depend on the main two.
They have to put their feet up for a bit , surely ?

Still three to get anyway...

Broad and Anderson the third opening pair in tests to 500 wickets

England could really do with Woakes or Jordan making a contribution here

GSC wrote:England could really do with Woakes or Jordan making a contribution here

that is what gives me hopes of draw as a good likelihood...... as I have been saying from last night...

Braod and Anderson cannot keep going at same intensity in all of second inning......and lightining doesn't strike twice..so Mooen won't get cheap wickets again....

and Woakes is just a containing bowler...and Jordan running on stakes......

Kumar is playing a hand again. Not scoring many runs, but his there again in a budding partnership.

England need to make sure this doesn't get away from them in the last few overs here.

Holding proves he really doesn't have a clue anymore. Needs to go.

Think KP f is a little unfair to Woakes there ...

Haven't seen the whole day , but quite like some of Woakes spells ; reckon he might have had a wicket or two with a bit of Moeen Ali's luck.

But we all know how much England depend on Broad and Anderson.

Long way to go yet . India may well escape with a draw. But a couple of quick wickets now or in the morning and England would still fancy their chances.

Bhuvi gone, the end

Just before Broad claimed that wicket , some idiot on the BBC text was reacting to a few boundaries by calling for him to be dropped from the team...some people just don't have a clue.

alfie wrote:Just before Broad claimed that wicket , some idiot on the BBC text was reacting to a few boundaries by calling for him to be dropped from the team...some people just don't have a clue.

Knee jerkers are hilarious!

England will hope for one more before stumps, to make it a near-perfect day.

I bet you do find jerkers hilarious...

Dhoni with a vital fifty for India   

Only two bowlers left to help him bring them closer to England now , so it's a heavy responsibility.

England would have loved to finish it today ; but hopefully they can get the last two quickly tomorrow...

kingraf wrote:I bet you do find jerkers hilarious...

Oh behave yourself. *Insert limp hand gesture here*

D3 observations:

--India scraped and sum-of-parts have added up even without a big inning...
if they drag the inning a bit tomm like about an hour on last morning....Cook will declare an hour after tea....else he will declare at tea...so it's about 15 overs less batting in second inning is what Ind is fighting for.

--Ind haven't been incompetent just loose and less lucky than Eng in terms of dropped catches and umpiring luck.

--they will tighten their game in second inning.... and hopefully luck will catch up....and Braod and Anderson will drop in intensity after a short break only..they will be bowling this time again tomm definitely.

---woakes has speed and swings it but doesn't bowl wicket taking balls...pitches far from the stumps, easy to leave, does not know how to "work a wicket" like thinking bowlers do.

Plunket and Stokes were definitely more "bowler minded" bowlers.....less competent than Anderson and Broad but a cut or two above Woakes.

and Jordan is just going through a horror patch......who we saw against Lanka was a different man.

India has to grit it out...but draw is a good possibility

Right two wickets quickly tomorrow within the first five overs - don't let Dhoni get in his attacking stride.

Quick swing of the bat, then around four sessions, maybe a bit less, to win the game. As GSC correctly said, one of Jordan or Woakes will have to step up.

i would start buttler with cook when we get in- we need that 400 lead and no less than 4 and a bit sessions to bowl them out

Pankaj can bat a bit and in fact I was a bit surprised Shami was send a head of him, perhaps its the experience factor, though Shami himself isn't all that experienced.
Ideally, India would hope the last 2 wickets can stretch the innings by an hour or so, add another 30-40, and thus make England bat a bit longer so that they can set a target around 400 in around 4 sessions.
England would be hoping to finish off the innings for another 10 or 15 runs within the first 10-15 minutes.

Good day for England then, but still a lot of work to be done.

India will be desperately disappointed at the number of batsmen who got themselves settled and then got out, some to good bowling, some to indifferent shots.

Kohli has a bit of an issue around the 5th stump area. He reminds me a bit of Pietersen in that he doesn't like just leaving the ball and likes to feel bat on ball. As a result he ends up playing a few away from his body; if there's no latteral movement and/or he's in good form he middles them and no one thinks the more or it, but this series he has nicked off a couple of times that way.

Jadeja has to decide whether he is going to bat properly or just play by numbers and slog. I have nothing against counter-attacking but if he bats like he has done the last couple of innings then that's fine, but it's effectively a shot to nothing and he will fail more often than he succeeds - a bit like Stuart Broad often plays like for England. Maybe even consider moving him down to 9 behind Kumar (although there is an argument that he can have more licence at 8 knowing that Kumar behind him can hang around for a while).

I thought England were just flagging a bit towards the end of the day, so that Kumar wicket is a real boost. They should now look forward to getting the last couple of Indian wickets cheaply, then piling on some runs. My guess is something like 400 in 110 overs when it gets to it. I can't see them even considering enforcing the follow-on.

Anderson was superb and deserves the plaudits he is getting. Broad bowled a brilliant spell early on to get England going. I thought Woakes did a decent job, but needs to figure out what his natural length is; at times he seems a bit confused between hitting back of a length or pitching it further up. His action has improved since the last test he played and he is definitely getting the ball through better.

England were hindered by Jordan's yips. I don't think there is much that can be done about that. You just have to keep bowling him and hope that things click back into place. The yips come and go without much warning. England desperately need him to refind some rythm because it is asking a lot of Anderson and Broad to come back and do it again.

I thought Cook had a very good day, probably his best of the summer as a captain. He rotated his bowlers well, especially given Jordan's troubles which he managed as well as you can I think. He bowled the spinner pretty much at the right time, and set good fields throughout.

Michael Holding had another dreadful day in the commentary box. His views are so far removed from the reality of modern day cricket it is not funny, but rather it is worrying if young players around the world listen to them and pay attention. Andrew Strauss made more pertinent points about fast bowling than either him or Botham.

After Rohit Sharma and Rahane gifted away their wickets, it looked like India's fighting chances of a draw were gone. But the efforts of Dhoni, Jadeja and Kumar has ones again given them a chance. Hopefully MS can guide Shami and Pankaj a while in the middle and stretch the score to 350-360. And then if Bhuvneshwar can chip in with an early wicket or 2 and Jadeja can keep an end quiet, with support from Pankaj and Shami, they can stretch the England innings a bit longer and then give the batsmen a decent chance to save the game.

KP_fan wrote:

--Ind haven't been incompetent just loose and less lucky than Eng in terms of dropped catches and umpiring luck.

English "luck" = Bell LBW, Cook dropped, Buttler "catch" and Buttler dropped (both these two once England already had a commanding score). England batted 160+ overs

India "luck" = Rahane caught behind, Jadeja dropped, Kumar dropped, plus of course getting Ballance out when he missed the ball by a distance. India have batted just over 100 overs.

How this works out to India being "less lucky" is an interesting deduction.

I'm pleased to note you've changed your mind on Woakes replacing the "medium-pacer Broad" since the winter mind.

How is dropping catches luck? And as for "umpiring luck", if only there were a system to counter this.

Duty281 wrote:How is dropping catches luck? And as for "umpiring luck", if only there were a system to counter this.

Well played

I think it's good luck as a batsman if you do benefit from a dropped catch. As a bowling side obviously dropping catches is not bad luck though.

Woakes did ok, kept it tight asked some questions. Not sure he's a major upgrade on Bresnan though.

Jordan a bit wild. Not sure the test arena isn't too big for him at this stage

Eugh the evening put argument is just the worst. Like with football and referee decisions, no they don't even themselves out, that's just some ridiculous sweeping statement that isn't true

Good day again for England, crucial we pick up these final two wickets within the first hour at the very worst. Want to ideally have 110-120 overs to bowl India out

Mike Selig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

--Ind haven't been incompetent just loose and less lucky than Eng in terms of dropped catches and umpiring luck.

English "luck" = Bell LBW, Cook dropped, Buttler "catch" and Buttler dropped (both these two once England already had a commanding score). England batted 160+ overs

India "luck" = Rahane caught behind, Jadeja dropped, Kumar dropped, plus of course getting Ballance out when he missed the ball by a distance. India have batted just over 100 overs.

How this works out to India being "less lucky" is an interesting deduction.

I'm pleased to note you've changed your mind on Woakes replacing the "medium-pacer Broad" since the winter mind.

i will adress all the discussion points here:

--top order luck for top-4 is different from lower order luck....if Cook and Bell were gone for zero....it would have been a different ball game.
If India's top-4 had a reprieve it would be a different match situation also

--Re; Broad has earned respect...his stature has risen....inspite of his talked about injury he goes on and on....bowls 88mph...keeps picking wicket.......great temperament on how he faced the booing and attacks in Aus......he is really a great asset to have in any team.
The only neagtive.....under Cook...his batting has declined

--Re: Jadeja's batting........you are right....he has to make up his mind on how he's gonna bat....like  a proper batsman...which is what  he is in Ranji...build an inning....or like a hit and miss slogger.
He is capable of being a proper batsman...his problem is is lack of confidence against the new ball  especially in overseas conditions......that he gets exposed to EVERY TIME he bats
it might sound radical but if India can make jadeja bat around the time ball is 50 overs old and bring Rahane around the time when second new ball is due...they will get a lot more out of this batting line-up

while Bhuvi is clearly a solid batsman......bringing him up might mean putting too much pressure on him and tinkering with his bolwing focus...India needs him more as a bowler.

--from yesterday Re: Run rates...India's RR has been around 3.1 all day inspite of the pressure of 570 runs and a superior bowling opponent and constant falling wickets.
compare that to Eng's barely 2.7ish on D1....they should have been more positive from the end 2nd session..

this means about 15 odd overs that they could have saved ie more time to bowl india out

and that's what this test match might come down to repeat of situation like today India 8 down at the end of D5   

India bat so deep and Eng with 2 potent bowlers aren't gonna be able to blast India out...they can chip away at best like they have done here and so so another 10 -15odd overs would have been very handy

Re luck evening itself out, I think KPF has pretty much made the point that it doesn't. It may do in terms of sheer numbers, but not all wickets and bad dismissals are equal.

For example, Bell could (should) have been out LBW on 0, goes on to make 160odd. Ballance is wrongly given out on 150+ with England already in control. Those two decisions cannot be said to even themselves out, clearly England have benefitted more by having Bell (moreover a free-scoring batsman, which was important in the context of the game) given not out, than India have by getting Ballance given out incorrectly.

I wish to make the point that I don't think any of the umpiring errors apart from maybe the Ballance one (where he missed the ball by a fair bit) are glaring ones. The Bell LBW was such an unusual delivery; Rahane is almost impossible to give out live.
It does however make the case for using technology fairly compelling.

Apart from that, KPF you make a number of very good points, albeit that Broad's batting started deteriorating a while before Cook became captain - your attempt to somehow bring Cook into this is TBH a bit unseemly, I don't see how Cook's captaincy has much to do with Broad's batting form.

I agree that England could (should?) have pushed on a bit in the 2nd half of day 1 (although my calculation is more an extra 30 or so runs, so maybe 10 overs rather than 15). However there is no guarantee the rest of the game would have proceeded in the same way had they done so. They may have been bowled out for around 400, or India with 25-30 overs may have batted more naturally and finished on 80 or 100 for none. No way of knowing.

Cook gave Ali the wrist bands I heard