England v India 3rd Test, Ageas Bowl

First topic message reminder :

Lets get in the thread early enough.
India 1-0 up and now is the time to keep up the leel of intensity.
For England a few careers might depend on a quick turnaround in fortune here.
The pitch is reported to have some green on it and is expected to be in between the ugly pathetic track for the Trent Bridge and a lively track for the 2nd test at the HQ.
Not many reports on the England xi, but there are indications that Stuart Binny will be out for India, and by reports coming in now, its Rohit Sharma who might come in.

killer938 wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Fifties have come up in 83, 70, 52 then 36 balls. Ended up at pretty much 5 per over despite plenty of men on the boundary and jadeja bowling a negative line.

Terrible scoring rates.

Root gone, England have declared giving themselves 15 or so minutes before tea. India need 445 to win from about 125-130 overs (we won't get them all in tonight). Under 3.5 per over, I think that's attacking enough from Cook.

Some people would have you believe he should have set India 360 off 150 no doubt. Much easier from your armchair.

We don't get 15 mins before tea, it is being taken early and personally that is the only issue I have. The fact the cut off time was 15:10 (which Cook and Moores must have known) and Root got out at about 15:14 and then we declared made absolutely no sense to me at all. Declare at 15:09 and give Jimmy and Broad 2 bites with the new ball. Hopefully it won't make a difference, just not good captaincy in my mind as the last thing the Indian opening batsmen would want is to face 5 or 6 overs before tea.

Alternatively you could say it was shrewd captaincy in that it took away the 10 minute break between innings.

There is another problem with an early declaration in that if the batting team get off to a decent start the fielding captain is inclined to set a defensive field too early because the target becomes gettable.

As Mike says, it's always easy from your armchair.

Scrumpy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
Indeed, but some people are just never happy, and will always look for an opportunity to stick the knife in.

Which they are intitled to do as cricket fans.

Of course they are, but I would question how much a fan of the team the are where they do "will always look for an opportunity to stick the knife in", which is where we are at the moment with Cook.

Duty281 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
Indeed, but some people are just never happy, and will always look for an opportunity to stick the knife in.

Which they are intitled to do as cricket fans.

Entitled as they may be, they will only end up being proven wrong in this instance.

We should have declared before Tea and had a go at them for a few overs.

Just goes to show that Cook is a poor Captain IMHO, he lacks ideas and is just a yes man.
Lets not forget Buttler is not ready for Test cricket!  

Hibbz wrote:

Alternatively you could say it was shrewd captaincy in that it took away the 10 minute break between innings.

There is another problem with an early declaration in that if the batting team get off to a decent start the fielding captain is inclined to set a defensive field too early because the target becomes gettable.

As Mike says, it's always easy from your armchair.

Or you could say if he had declared 2 overs earlier he would still have the same number of overs bowling but they would be chasing 430 and not 445 and we would have had 2 goes at them with the new ball, something opening batsmen hate.

To your second point, if by "declaring early" you mean 5 minutes earlier then you have a point, but in my mind those 5 mins are not going to make the difference between them getting the runs or not.

Scrumpy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
Indeed, but some people are just never happy, and will always look for an opportunity to stick the knife in.

Which they are intitled to do as cricket fans.

Entitled as they may be, they will only end up being proven wrong in this instance.

We should have declared before Tea and had a go at them for a few overs.

Just goes to show that Cook is a poor Captain IMHO, he lacks ideas and is just a yes man.
Lets not forget Buttler is not ready for Test cricket!  

What evidence is there that Buttler is ready for Test Cricket? How did Cook, a poor captain, win in India?

Stop knee-jerking on everything.

2hr 50mins final session seems a little unfair on the fielding side if you ask me...

Anyway will Alastair Cook be sending R Jadeja a Christmas card? Post Jadeja dropping him, Cook's scored 150 runs.

Let's not anoint Buttler the saviour of English wicketekeeping. He's played one innings at Test level in the perfect situation for him. It was a superb knock, but let's not get carried away.

Duty281 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
Indeed, but some people are just never happy, and will always look for an opportunity to stick the knife in.

Which they are intitled to do as cricket fans.

Entitled as they may be, they will only end up being proven wrong in this instance.

We should have declared before Tea and had a go at them for a few overs.

Just goes to show that Cook is a poor Captain IMHO, he lacks ideas and is just a yes man.
Lets not forget Buttler is not ready for Test cricket!  

What evidence is there that Buttler is ready for Test Cricket? How did Cook, a poor captain, win in India?

Stop knee-jerking on everything.

England won on India because Flower picked Panesar for the second Test and he went on to take 20 odd wickets.

Whereas Cook selected Bresnan in the first Test...

JDizzle wrote:Let's not anoint Buttler the saviour of English wicketekeeping. He's played one innings at Test level in the perfect situation for him. It was a superb knock, but let's not get carried away.

Exactly my thoughts. He's got good potential, but that's it at this stage.

When he makes a good score from a position of 50/4, then we can start talking about whether he's ready for Test cricket.

Gerrys posting frequency seem to be proportional to Englands success.

JDizzle wrote:Let's not anoint Buttler the saviour of English wicketekeeping. He's played one innings at Test level in the perfect situation for him. It was a superb knock, but let's not get carried away.

Let's forget the batting for a minute as he hasn't been under pressure. What has impressed me is his wicket keeping. He has some good hands and can leap far. Priors older body wouldn't have kept this well.

But it was clear to anyone who has watched/played a game of Cricket that Prior is past his best or injured , it was commendable of Cook to stick up for his mate but that shouldn't cloud your judgment when you are in that position.

His comments about Buttler were just wrong just like his timing of the declaration today.

Gerry is best ignored. It must be a very sad life following the cricket waiting for something to go wrong for England so he can have a pop at someone in one line, or feel the need to downplay every success from an England player as being "cheap".

Dhawan does look clueless around off-stump - you do feel it's a matter of time until he nicks one (cue Dhawan hundred).

"Buttler will be a very good Test player at some stage. Talented people find ways to do that, but I don't think he's quite ready. [...] But a guy who is as talented as that, there's no reason why he can't."

I think Cook was quite correct to say that.

Buttler has kept pretty well. He is a natural athlete and his footwork seems to have improved, whilst his head and hands are nicely coordinated and generally in the right positions, moving well with the ball. He hasn't quite mastered diving low as a keeper (different technique to diving low as a fielder; at one point he dived with the opposite hand to try and stop a low ball, which is not something I'd recommend) and let a few through in the first innings which you'd expect a very good keeper to stop.

He will keep on more challenging pitches, but it has been an encouraging start.

I don't think his batting showed us anything we didn't know. We knew he's a confident young fella who can take bowling apart and hit it to all areas. This is not meant as a criticism, it's just a comment.

Vijay looking solid as ever. I've really been impressed with his technique and judgement in this series.

But saying that when Prior couldn't catch a cold was a bit out of order imo.

Duty281 wrote:"Buttler will be a very good Test player at some stage. Talented people find ways to do that, but I don't think he's quite ready. [...] But a guy who is as talented as that, there's no reason why he can't."

I think Cook was quite correct to say that.

People like to take things out of context. This was said IIRC at the start of the summer when Buttler had as of yet only played a handful of first class matches and even fewer as a keeper. It doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

"This was said IIRC at the start of the summer when Buttler had as of yet only played a handful of first class matches"
 
a handful Lol  

Buttler moved to Lancs so he could keep in 4 day games.

Cook saying hes not ready isn't as bad as those saying he is after 1 innings when he narrowly escaped a duck.

Mike Selig wrote:Gerry is best ignored. It must be a very sad life following the cricket waiting for something to go wrong for England so he can have a pop at someone in one line, or feel the need to downplay every success from an England player as being "cheap".

Dhawan does look clueless around off-stump - you do feel it's a matter of time until he nicks one (cue Dhawan hundred).

You must lead a very 'sad life' Michael...

Following a pathetic team like England. Where losing Is par for that course.

Can't wait until next winter when the a Proteas rip England a new one...

Buttler moved to Lancs because Somerset made a mistake.

Gerry SA wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Gerry is best ignored. It must be a very sad life following the cricket waiting for something to go wrong for England so he can have a pop at someone in one line, or feel the need to downplay every success from an England player as being "cheap".

Dhawan does look clueless around off-stump - you do feel it's a matter of time until he nicks one (cue Dhawan hundred).

You must lead a very 'sad life' Michael...

Following a pathetic team like England. Where losing Is par for that course.

Can't wait until next winter when the a Proteas rip England a new one...

You must have confused me for an England supporter. Oh well.

What a gift...

Well played stu

Absolute gift, England will be over the moon to see Vijay off

Mike Selig wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Gerry is best ignored. It must be a very sad life following the cricket waiting for something to go wrong for England so he can have a pop at someone in one line, or feel the need to downplay every success from an England player as being "cheap".

Dhawan does look clueless around off-stump - you do feel it's a matter of time until he nicks one (cue Dhawan hundred).

You must lead a very 'sad life' Michael...

Following a pathetic team like England. Where losing Is par for that course.

Can't wait until next winter when the a Proteas rip England a new one...

You must have confused me for an England supporter. Oh well.

You watch it, Mike.

Gerry is a "proud South African" (or Mexican), who spends the majority of his time whittling on about England, and seems to watch them more than any English supporter I can mention!

And a nice bit of fielding there! Nine to go!

Of all the ways to lose a wicket in the context of this match position, losing Vijay (one of the more solid batsmen) to a run-out on a quick single...

single was on, but Vijay wasn't backing up and then slid his bat in very very casually. Out by a couple of centimetres, but out nevertheless. Braindead cricket from Vijay.

Very good bit of fielding from Broad.

Catch of the series.

Jordan comes good

Duty281 wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Gerry is best ignored. It must be a very sad life following the cricket waiting for something to go wrong for England so he can have a pop at someone in one line, or feel the need to downplay every success from an England player as being "cheap".

Dhawan does look clueless around off-stump - you do feel it's a matter of time until he nicks one (cue Dhawan hundred).

You must lead a very 'sad life' Michael...

Following a pathetic team like England. Where losing Is par for that course.

Can't wait until next winter when the a Proteas rip England a new one...

You must have confused me for an England supporter. Oh well.

You watch it, Mike.

Gerry is a "proud South African" (or Mexican), who spends the majority of his time whittling on about England, and seems to watch them more than any English supporter I can mention!

And a nice bit of fielding there! Nine to go!

Duty saw you on benefits Britain last night...

Massive wicket for England!

Struggling to work out whether Alis a good spinner or batsmen tend to overlook him.

At least Jordan will earn his match fee now...

MOEEN

The ban button gets more tempting by the day

GSC wrote:Struggling to work out whether Alis a good spinner or batsmen tend to overlook him.

Think its a bit of both. MOEEN is certainly better than a part timer and I think batsmen tend to treat him like one

Lucky boy Shikhar, but it's good that these things will even out exactly.

That Dhawan decision's an absolute shocker. as plum as you like

I can see why the Ump has given it not out, bat and pad very close together, tough to say what it hits first. But one look at DRS and that's clearly bat first and it's clearly out.

England are now owed 2 decisions Chaps, don't worry

That's plumb. Can only assume the umpire didn't think it was pad first, but hard to see how it could be bat first given where the pad was situated and the trajectory of the ball. Another easy decision if we could use technology. The situation gets increasingly ridiculous.

Both bowlers bowling well, you feel a wicket could come anytime.

India need to guts this out and hope it gets easier.

Some idiot on the BBC live text said that if Cook made India follow-on then the game could have been over tonight.   

More likely that India would have found a resurgence against England's cream crackered bowling attack, who spent all of day three in the field.

With the 2 players who could have batted time already back in the hut, its just a matter of time before England level the series 1 all with 2 to play.
If India are to lose this one, then I just hope the Offspinner gets a first ball duck, bowled by Alastair Cook!.

Go joey!!!!!

Golden arm Root!

Substandard bowling accounts for a substandard batsman...

Geez watching these mid table teams is funny...

Who needs a 'front-line' spinner?   
Ali and root the new Laker and Lock.

Bolt from the blue really.

Someone I doubt India will be content losing wickets to a run out, and 2 part timer spinners tonight.

More terrible captaincy from Cook. First he brings on Moeen Ali with the ball still new (OK so he got a flukey wicket but hey) and now he's given the ball to Joe Root.

Oh hang on...

Actually when Root came on I actually said to the guy next to me that I fancied him getting Dhawan out.

He's normally such a good player of spin but his brain seems scrambled at the moment. Not sure how much credit he has left, but he doesn't look a test player at the moment. Shame as the guy clearly has ability, I was a fan and was happy to see him in the side, but he just looks shot at the moment.

Buckethands Jordan?