Golovkin: Boxing's Best Puncher Since Tyson?

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Is Golovkin the scariest hitter since Tyson?

Jackson, Trinidad, McClellan and Valero created an aura - a mystique - when they fought. Is Golovkin on that level? Is he the biggest hitter of them all - Tyson even?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Chavez rejected the offer because he wants his contract with Arum to end after his next fight, it's that simple and no future guarantees are going to make him want to carry on working with him.

Turned down the fight though eh bubs?

In your Golovkin fanboy world you'll twist it that way but to everyone else it's obvious Arum was trying to force Chavez into prolonging his deal with him.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:In your Golovkin fanboy world you'll twist it that way but to everyone else it's obvious Arum was trying to force Chavez into prolonging his deal with him.

I'm a fan (who isn't?) but no "fanboy".

Of course Arum was trying to extend the contract - hence the derisory offer for a one fight deal. None of that, though, supports the idea that Golovkin is protected (which is ludicrous).

You're the very definition of a fanboy.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're the very definition of a fanboy.

Dear me....

I hope you and Stringbean have holidays booked when GGG lands a big fight. Holler back if you ever come up with an example of him being protected. Otherwise, stick to BoxRec and your Hopkins box set. Zzzzzzzzzzz.

There it is, right on cue, you're like a puppet, so easy to manipulate.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There it is, right on cue, you're like a puppet, so easy to manipulate.

Yeah, you got me Mathew Corbett. You're a genius!!!

Hammersmith do you not think 17mil for 2 fights is a good deal then?

I really don't get how anyone can say it's a bad offer or a slave contract or any of the other poopie that's normally thrown at promotors.

I'm also not sure how you can say GGG is ducking anyone as Catchweight came out with a rebuttal for each opponent.

I must also clarify that up until the weekend I thought he'd been avoiding Geale (due to him not waiting an extra day for the 1st time Geale offered him a bout). Can anyone explain to me (without being an ass) how GGG is avoiding fighters after he's pointed out who he wants

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:In your Golovkin fanboy world you'll twist it that way but to everyone else it's obvious Arum was trying to force Chavez into prolonging his deal with him.

I'm a fan (who isn't?) but no "fanboy".

Of course Arum was trying to extend the contract - hence the derisory offer for a one fight deal. None of that, though, supports the idea that Golovkin is protected (which is ludicrous).

The following is ludicrous but it is what we have come to expect from the spin masters promoting Golovkin.

After the Geale fight Golovkin's trainer Abel Sanchez said the following:

“We are ready to fight Andre Ward, but only if he will understand that Gennady is a bigger star, bigger draw.”


It seems Golovkin's team do not see Ward as being in the "Garage" to use your word.

Not only that but they also want the lions share of the pot to fight Ward. Spin and avoidance tactic if there ever was one.


With these Golovkin PR guys it's a case of paper never refused ink. There's more sh!t flowing out of them than a small community group sewerage scheme.

So are you now saying that Wards promotional issues have been sorted out?
what happened to ironclad contracts and the such?
GGG is a bigger draw than Ward. Your a bigger draw than Ward. By your reasoning over fighters etc and how it has to be fair then GGG should get the bigger pot.

GGG is the A-side in a fight with Ward, in fact, he is the A-side in a fight with a lot of guys, almost everyone out there for him. 1.5m is massive viewership figures, and puts him pretty close to the biggest draws in world boxing.

Seems though, his management has learnt very quickly, what Martinez's knew all along... Boxing makes cynics of everyone involved.

kingraf wrote:GGG is the A-side in a fight with Ward, in fact, he is the A-side in a fight with a lot of guys, almost everyone out there for him. 1.5m is massive viewership figures, and puts him pretty close to the biggest draws in world boxing.

Seems though, his management has learnt very quickly, what Martinez's knew all along... Boxing makes cynics of everyone involved.

His last fight had less than a million viewers on a subscription channel ESPN that has 100 million subscribers in the US.

These numbers of course are not PPV. If the numbers were PPV he would be up there with Mayweather.

Ward, or any lineal champ that is No.2 P4P, is not going to take a smaller cut of the pot to take on a fighter who has beaten nobody of real note. Abel Sanchez is aware of this so spouts on about wanting the Ward fight knowing it will never happen under the conditions he is talking about. Pure spin.

So how can you argue and state categorically that fighter A should be allowed to drop out of a fight as the terms are unfair (I still can't get my head around an unfair 2 fight 17mil deal), but when it's fighter B then it changes and he has to twist and turn to accomodate the other boxer.

Derbymanc wrote:So how can you argue and state categorically that fighter A should be allowed to drop out of a fight as the terms are unfair (I still can't get my head around an unfair 2 fight 17mil deal), but when it's fighter B then it changes and he has to twist and turn to accomodate the other boxer.

What age are you?

Old enough to know to stick to an argument and not keep changing to make it fit my views.

I'll keep calling you on your bullpoopie, you can keep ignoring the valid questions asked by everyone and attack the poster instead, it shows everyone who reads it just how far you've fallen.

The only one trying to spin anything here is you Strongback. You must have no idea how daft you sound. Blatant denial of simple realities. Golovkin has prioritised the middleweight division and the top names there. He wanted Martinez, now he wants Cotto. The two fights that made the most sense for him. He has said he will go up or down to fight a ppv fight.

Golovkin being avoided isn’t any secret. All his rivals are saying it out loud. You don’t want hear it because it doesn’t fit with your bonkers theory that the best middleweight in the world by a mile needs protecting and doesn’t want the big fights.

You haven’t put up a single percent of an argument that makes any sense whatsoever. What do you think Golovkin and his team are in this game for? To make chump change and pretend he is avoided? Not a single one of his rival promoters would even bother to deny Golovkin is looking for the fights. They will just argue that the money isn’t there for them to satisfy the risk.

Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless in a devil-may-care fashion.

I can agree with that milky,

But I just don't see how Chavez could lose with the contract he was offered. Even if he was splattered by GGG in 30 secs, he's got another fight where he'd still earn millions and he'd still be marketable afterwards.

milkyboy wrote:Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless  in a devil-may-care fashion.

That is the essence of what avoiding is. He was the most qualified and logical opponent for Martinez. There was an obligation on Martinez to accept the challenge. Martinez was happy to face Macklin or Murray or drag up Cotto rather than take the challenge on Cotto will probably call up Alvarez and after that why not Bradley? Or Macklin. Or a rematch with Martinez.
But Golovkins not being avoided right?

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless  in a devil-may-care fashion.

That is the essence of what avoiding is. He was the most qualified and logical opponent for Martinez. There was an obligation on Martinez to accept the challenge. Martinez was happy to face Macklin or Murray or drag up Cotto rather than take the challenge on Cotto will probably call up Alvarez and after that why not Bradley? Or Macklin. Or a rematch with Martinez.
But Golovkins not being avoided right?

Golovkin can fight Ward and get the Lion's share of the pot like his trainer Abel Sanchez said.   

He cant though. Your argument(s) are so warped and out of touch with reality that not even Golovkins rivals are trying to sell them. That’s how daft they sound.

Why shouldn't he take the lions share of the pot as he's the bigger draw?

As with what you've been saying since the Chavez debacle, GGG surely has the right to negotiate what he feels is right and if he's bringing more bums to seats (ie more money to the table) then it's only fair that he takes the lions share.

http://unamusedsloth.com/post/92156678250/cant-we-all-just-get-along

Sad state of affairs when a fighter who does not physically need to move up, has to just to get a decent fight.

Derbymanc wrote:Why shouldn't he take the lions share of the pot as he's the bigger draw?

As with what you've been saying since the Chavez debacle, GGG surely has the right to negotiate what he feels is right and if he's bringing more bums to seats (ie more money to the table) then it's only fair that he takes the lions share.

http://unamusedsloth.com/post/92156678250/cant-we-all-just-get-along

As he has never fought on PPV how do you know he is the bigger draw?


Do you honestly believe given Carl Froch's career he would duck Golovkin?


And you can also forget Golovkin just wants to fight at middleweight. That is something Hazharrison has projected onto Golovkin because that is what his poster boy Hagler did.

Golovkin's people are calling out fights from 154-168 so that dispels Haz's preconceived notions about a fighter sticking to one weight division.

catchweight wrote:He cant though. Your argument(s) are so warped and out of touch with reality that not even Golovkins rivals are trying to sell them. That’s how daft they sound.

Golovkin's team are very adept at spinning to the media. This is what I am talking about. You might not see it as you don't want to.

The biggest myth of all is that GGG cannot get a fight and that is what I have been challenging.

Rowley wrote:Sad state of affairs when a fighter who does not physically need to move up, has to just to get a decent fight.

He will have to go SMW to get a decent fight anyway as he will make mince meat of Cotto and Canelo who are LMW's. Canelo pushing MW.

Because his viewing figures have been higher than Wards and (according to others) Golovkin has been fighting Chaff which shows people are paying to see him.

Wards biggest audience have been against Dawson and Hopkins who are draws on their own
http://www.si.com/boxing/counter-punch/2013/08/26/andre-ward-hbo-boxing-next-fight#
http://www.livefight.com/boxingforum/index.php?topic=25123.0

I can't see anything quoting GGG as wanting to stay at middleweight but I don't see the problem with him wanting to clean up the division first. If we're stating he has to move up then the same argument should be levelled at Ward too.

Nope I don't think Froch would duck anyone but EH has already stated that the money isn't there for them to accept the fight (the same reasons your slating GGG)
http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/07/hearn-rules-out-froch-golovkin-fight/

As far as I'm aware (and can find) GGG has called out Mayweather which is a massive payday. That's one fighter.

I don't get how you can just state that GGG's promoter is spinning things and everyone else's is on the level. Bizarre

I'd rather he cleaned up at MW first and then moved up (I'd like to see more boxers doing it though so i'm a bit biased in that respect)

Strongback wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Couple of things need ironing out with that though Strongy, how many years is the multi-year contract for?
how many fights a year does he have to have?
As it's all gone quite on this front (3 months ago) is it down the tube?
He had a 17mil offer on the table for 2 fights, he could have fulfilled that by now (dpeending on the beating by GGG) and still taken a massive multi fight deal.

I can see the point your trying to make though but you've got to think that he either has pants advisors or he was actively ducking GGG while trying to make it look like he wasn't.

(I still can't get over turning down 17 mil for TWO fights)

47 is a lot more than 17.  It doesn't what you have to do 47 will always be more than 17.

This is the reason Chavez is trying to get away from Arum.

Erm, yes it does. 47 fights at $1m per fight is a lot less attractive than 2 fights for $17m.

Is Cotto not a world champion at middle. Got to say I hate this current phenomena of world champion when it suits. If Cotto is a world middleweight champion at middle he should be willing to face challengers there. If he is not he should stay at light middle. Same goes for Floyd and Manny at light middle and anyone else you'd care to mention. As the old saying goes if you can't stand the heat.

If Golovkin genuinely wants to unify one of the classic divisions that should be applauded and as fans we should be calling those that stand in his way on it, not excusing it on their behalf.

 

Floyd should rematch Cotto at 160, I'd still back him to win and he'd be a titlist in another division.

130 to 160 champ - that's almost as impressive as Manny!!

Oh Top hat that's my worst nightmare, stop it! I imagine there'd be a catchweight there and wouldn't be the full 160 which just makes it worse.

Dipper Brown wrote:Oh Top hat that's my worst nightmare, stop it! I imagine there'd be a catchweight there and wouldn't be the full 160 which just makes it worse.

The chance to replace one middleweight "champion" who won't fight middleweights with another who won't fight middleweights! Oh how my heart leaps at the prospect.

Alright, it hasn't happened yet. Let's not scare ourselves!

Rowley wrote:Is Cotto not a world champion at middle. Got to say I hate this current phenomena of world champion when it suits. If Cotto is a world middleweight champion at middle he should be willing to face challengers there. If he is not he should stay at light middle. Same goes for Floyd and Manny at light middle and anyone else you'd care to mention. As the old saying goes if you can't stand the heat.

If Golovkin genuinely wants to unify one of the classic divisions that should be applauded and as fans we should be calling those that stand in his way on it, not excusing it on their behalf.  

Golovkin is calling out Mayweather at 154.  He can't want to concentrate only on MW if he is calling out fighters at 154 and 168 (Ward).

As I said above I don't think Golovkin is as adamant about being a one weight division champ as Haz has been championing on here.  This whole one weight division champ is his preconceived idea that I believe Haz has projected onto this debate.  It's a remnant of his debate with Truss regarding a Hagler and Spinks fight.

Golovkin was in negotiations with Arum to fight Chavez at 168 so he is will to go to SMW.

If he can genuinely make 154 Floyd should answer the challenge, not sure why that would give Cotto a pass though or excuse Martinez ignoring him previously.

He's not calling out Floyd at 154, is he? Thought he was just saying he was willing to boil down to make the fight happen.

The debate was whether GGG (or his management) were ducking fighters not about whether he would/should/could move up.

You brought Mayweather and Ward into it, while looking into it too I haven't seen GGG stating that he'll only fight at MW but other fighters have used that as an excuse as to why they won't fight them (Ward stated in an interview that GGG wanted to fight at MW).

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless  in a devil-may-care fashion.

That is the essence of what avoiding is. He was the most qualified and logical opponent for Martinez. There was an obligation on Martinez to accept the challenge. Martinez was happy to face Macklin or Murray or drag up Cotto rather than take the challenge on Cotto will probably call up Alvarez and after that why not Bradley? Or Macklin. Or a rematch with Martinez.
But Golovkins not being avoided right?

Its a fair point re martinez, but he's no longer champion and there was still the whole risk reward equation. We know if  ggg was Puerto Rican or mexican, things would be very different. Not fair but how it is.

Ultimately it depends on your definitions catchy, he's been in the who needs him club for a while, but I wouldn't accuse cotto or junior of actively ducking him. In your essence of avoiding then most boxer's in history have avoided someone at some point. In this game to me a duck is when he's the big money option and/or the only viable opponent and you still don't fight him.

No-ones queuing up for golovkin for fairly obvious reasons, but by the time  cotto and Alvarez have done their thing, and ggg has presumably flattened  Solomon/an other, then the clamour will be greater, and the accusations more valid. Presuming his stock continues to rise, then the winner of cotto Alvarez v ggg in a years time is a bigger money fight than either of them against him now.

Even if he has made noise about fighting Floyd or Ward not sure what difference it makes. Is it not possible his preference is to unify middle, but he realises how uninterested the other belt holders so is willing to look elsewhere to get a challenge/payday worthy of his talents?

Rowley wrote:Even if he has made noise about fighting Floyd or Ward not sure what difference it makes. Is it not possible his preference is to unify middle, but he realises how uninterested the other belt holders so is willing to look elsewhere to get a challenge/payday worthy of his talents?

There was an idea put out by his people that he could not get a fight and then some others here said that he only wanted to fight at MW. I don't believe either of those two things to be true. This is my debate.

It is clear GGG is telling the media he is willing to fight everybody from 154 to 168. I personally believe Golovkin wants a big pay day but does not bring enough to the table to get the fights made from a business point of view.

He either brings more dollars to the table or he takes on a Ward or whoever will fight him for a modest payday. He wants the big fights but not the risk/low reward of a fighter like Ward.

If this is the case he will have to wait in line until Cotto and Canelo fight because that is a huge fight. Canelo is his best chance of a title and this can happen next year, I believe Canelo beats Cotto. If Golovkin wants a fight in between why not take on Ward or if not then continue to do what he has done to date and fight MW's levels below him for peanuts. Stop the spin though.

Golovkin is promoted by K2 who promote the Klitschko's. No surprise there is politicking and spin going on.

Strongback wrote:

catchweight wrote:He cant though. Your argument(s) are so warped and out of touch with reality that not even Golovkins rivals are trying to sell them. That’s how daft they sound.

Golovkin's team are very adept at spinning to the media. This is what I am talking about.  You might not see it as you don't want to.

The biggest myth of all is that GGG cannot get a fight and that is what I have been challenging.

You have just bounced from one hairbrained accusation and argument to the other. The funny thing is that none of the promoters involved in this are even bother denying the situation or try and argue what you are. They know they cant credibly deny Golovkin is targeting their fighters. They know kinow they cant deny he is a top fighter. All they can do is sidestep the issue by demanding more money. Froch is on record saying he doesn’t fancy the fight on more than one occasion. Hearn can only give his man a “50/50 chance” of winning and has said until the fight does ppv on both sides of the pond he wont consider it. DiBella promotes Martinez and pretty much admits they steered clear of him going as far as saying he is the most avoided man in boxing. Arum explained Chavez turned down a lucrative 2 fight deal to face him and a one fight deal which would have absolved him of his contract. Cottos advisors have said the fight wont happen for them until Golovkin is ppv. Its no secret. Its no spin. They are all more or less saying the same thing. Even in boxings world of BS they haven’t stooped to your kind of crackpot theories on Golovkin being protected and because he isn’t trying to set up a fight with Ward in another division, in Wards back yard in a fight that wont sell big and an opponent that isn’t even on the market that it proves Golovkin isn’t being avoided. It beggars belief.

As for Mayweather, this is more clutching at straws from you. Of course he is available to face Mayweather and of course they know it wont happen. He hardly been in Mayweathers face about the fight. Mayweather won the title in the division below and Golovkin has obviously said if Mayweather wants it then hes available. Journalists ask him these sort of questions all the time. “Would you face Mayweather?” Of course hes going to say yes. Why wouldn’t he. Hes hardly been calling him out as maseum. In fact hes identified other boxers as higher priority. Heres some of the “spin” Golovkins management had on Mayweather:

Gennady Golovkin could’ve been making his major pay-per-view debut in summer 2014, but when a proposed move to super middleweight to face Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. failed to come off, Golovkin wound up defending his middleweight title against Daniel Geale instead on HBO.
Golovkin made quick work of Geale this past Saturday. Afterward, his promoter, Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions, said “there’s no rush” to having Golovkin enter the pay-per-view realm.
“The only way it makes sense to do a pay-per-view is if he has a pay-per-view opponent, and I think there’s three clearly out there: Canelo [Alvarez], [Miguel] Cotto, [Julio Cesar] Chavez [Jr.],” Loeffler said. “Mayweather’s a little bit unrealistic. Gennady’s never called out Floyd. It’s just when people ask, would he come down to 154 and fight Floyd, the answer is ‘Yes,’ but that’s not calling him out, because Floyd fights in a lower division.
“Those are the realistic pay-per-views. Gennady is happy to fight on HBO, and we think he reaches a broader audience.”
Indeed, Golovkin’s ratings have been growing noticeably with each appearance on the network.
Golovkin’s HBO debut, against Gregorz Proksa in September 2012, pulled in 685,000 viewers, according to Nielsen ratings. Golovkin vs. Gabriel Rosado pulled in 813,000 viewers in January 2013. Golovkin vs. Matthew Macklin pulled in 1.1 million viewers in June 2013. And Golovkin vs. Curtis Stevens pulled in 1.4 million viewers in November 2013.

“When we’re building his star and building his cachet, we’re happy to continue to build that until he gets to the point where there’s a competitive match that people are going to be willing to pay for,” Loeffler said.

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless  in a devil-may-care fashion.

That is the essence of what avoiding is. He was the most qualified and logical opponent for Martinez. There was an obligation on Martinez to accept the challenge. Martinez was happy to face Macklin or Murray or drag up Cotto rather than take the challenge on Cotto will probably call up Alvarez and after that why not Bradley? Or Macklin. Or a rematch with Martinez.
But Golovkins not being avoided right?

Its a fair point re martinez, but he's no longer champion and there was still the whole risk reward equation. We know if  ggg was Puerto Rican or mexican, things would be very different. Not fair but how it is.

Ultimately it depends on your definitions catchy, he's been in the who needs him club for a while, but I wouldn't accuse cotto or junior of actively ducking him. In your essence of avoiding then most boxer's in history have avoided someone at some point. In this game to me a duck is when he's the big money option and/or the only viable opponent and you still don't fight him.

No-ones queuing up for golovkin for fairly obvious reasons, but by the time  cotto and Alvarez have done their thing, and ggg has presumably flattened  Solomon/an other, then the clamour will be greater, and the accusations more valid. Presuming his stock continues to rise, then the winner of cotto Alvarez v ggg in a years time is a bigger money fight than either of them against him now.

There is big money on the table for the big names to fight him. There just isnt enough to satisy the inneviteable beating. Cotto v Golovkin is a huge fight. Sells out MSG easy. The two top rated middleweights facing off.

Safer to face Alvarez though.

It's a good offer Derby if it's with a promoter you want to work with, in the case of Chavez and Arum the money is a moot point.

Cheers Hammer,

It does make me wonder just how much he's earned that he can turn his back on that much money. The mind boggles

We also don't know what future offers he's received from other promoters, not many would turn it down but get the impression Chavez has had enough of Arum benefitting from his name.

I think it's all come at the right time for him Hammer and is a convieniant excuse for him to sidestep GGG stating it's because he wants to leave Arum (as has been pointed out, it was a 2 fight max contract.)

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless  in a devil-may-care fashion.

That is the essence of what avoiding is. He was the most qualified and logical opponent for Martinez. There was an obligation on Martinez to accept the challenge. Martinez was happy to face Macklin or Murray or drag up Cotto rather than take the challenge on Cotto will probably call up Alvarez and after that why not Bradley? Or Macklin. Or a rematch with Martinez.
But Golovkins not being avoided right?

Its a fair point re martinez, but he's no longer champion and there was still the whole risk reward equation. We know if  ggg was Puerto Rican or mexican, things would be very different. Not fair but how it is.

Ultimately it depends on your definitions catchy, he's been in the who needs him club for a while, but I wouldn't accuse cotto or junior of actively ducking him. In your essence of avoiding then most boxer's in history have avoided someone at some point. In this game to me a duck is when he's the big money option and/or the only viable opponent and you still don't fight him.

No-ones queuing up for golovkin for fairly obvious reasons, but by the time  cotto and Alvarez have done their thing, and ggg has presumably flattened  Solomon/an other, then the clamour will be greater, and the accusations more valid. Presuming his stock continues to rise, then the winner of cotto Alvarez v ggg in a years time is a bigger money fight than either of them against him now.

There is big money on the table for the big names to fight him. There just isnt enough to satisy the inneviteable beating. Cotto v Golovkin is a huge fight. Sells out MSG easy. The two top rated middleweights facing off.

Safer to face Alvarez though.

Of course it is. My point is, that's how boxing works. There's big money, but there's equally big or bigger money for less risk. Accuse cotto of a duck when ggg is THE big money fight and there are no viable alternatives. I'll be calling it a duck then too.

As a boxing fan I always want to see the best fights so it annoys me like everyone else, but as boxing is a business first and sport second, without radical changes to the way it's run, it is what  it is.  Guys like ggg have to do a hagler, keep winning impressively and increasing his cache and ratcheting up the pressure.

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Could be no-one is actively ducking anyone yet and we just have a high risk fighter, who other big names will only fight if/when they have more or at least equally lucrative and more winnable fights out of the way. Boxing being a business and all that.

I appreciate that the dull middle ground doesn't promote 'lively and intelligent' debate, but I thought I'd just throw it out there regardless  in a devil-may-care fashion.

That is the essence of what avoiding is. He was the most qualified and logical opponent for Martinez. There was an obligation on Martinez to accept the challenge. Martinez was happy to face Macklin or Murray or drag up Cotto rather than take the challenge on Cotto will probably call up Alvarez and after that why not Bradley? Or Macklin. Or a rematch with Martinez.
But Golovkins not being avoided right?

Its a fair point re martinez, but he's no longer champion and there was still the whole risk reward equation. We know if  ggg was Puerto Rican or mexican, things would be very different. Not fair but how it is.

Ultimately it depends on your definitions catchy, he's been in the who needs him club for a while, but I wouldn't accuse cotto or junior of actively ducking him. In your essence of avoiding then most boxer's in history have avoided someone at some point. In this game to me a duck is when he's the big money option and/or the only viable opponent and you still don't fight him.

No-ones queuing up for golovkin for fairly obvious reasons, but by the time  cotto and Alvarez have done their thing, and ggg has presumably flattened  Solomon/an other, then the clamour will be greater, and the accusations more valid. Presuming his stock continues to rise, then the winner of cotto Alvarez v ggg in a years time is a bigger money fight than either of them against him now.

There is big money on the table for the big names to fight him. There just isnt enough to satisy the inneviteable beating. Cotto v Golovkin is a huge fight. Sells out MSG easy. The two top rated middleweights facing off.

Safer to face Alvarez though.

Of course it is. My point is, that's how boxing works. There's big money, but there's equally big or bigger money for less risk. Accuse cotto of a duck when ggg is THE big money fight and there are no viable alternatives. I'll be calling it a duck then too.

As a boxing fan I always want to see the best fights so it annoys me like everyone else, but as boxing is a business first and sport second, without radical changes to the way it's run, it is what  it is.  Guys like ggg have to do a hagler, keep winning impressively and increasing his cache and ratcheting up the pressure.

Thats fine. But there are people arguing that Golovkin is being "protected" and that his struggle to get the big fights is "spin".

Agree with Milky, I don't fault Cotto at all personally. In his position he can take a winnable fight for huge money in Canelo and after that possibly a career pay day against Mayweather.

He's had one fight at Middleweight and is a career WW so I doubt 'cleaning out the division' is a priority to him. Huge risk and nowhere near the reward should he somehow beat GGG.

All the money in the world and the chance to be the man who takes Mayweather's 0 or a long (or most would believe short) night with a man with sledgehammers for fists?

Flip side, if I was GGG I'd be using this to hype his image as 'the most avoided man' in boxing. Why not? Adds to his mystique and value.