Golden Era my A** !!!!

Minter
Jones
Graham
Conteh
Laing
Honeyghan
Watson
Eubank
Benn
Mcguigan
Collins
Mckenzie
Lewis
Bruno
......

For a 25 year odd period these shores produced elite world level boxers. The current crop are in my opinion over hyped, under cooked, and under schooled. I read recently that British boxing was undergoing a golden era.... My ass!!! I'm trying to figure out where the problem lies. Some of my thoughts have flitted between what I believe is a poor poor stock of current trainers compared to the past. Another thought is the art of match matchmaking and brining a young fighter on, I simply believe the Hearns of this world are shocking at it, and Warren has lost the plot. The amateur game has had an effect on the quality of boxers world wide over the last 15 years. They are not schooled the same and the change in judging amateur fights over a decade a ago had a profound influence. Thank god that they have revised the rules and judging latterly; what I am now seeing is possibly more akin to the old days were a good 60 to 80 amateur fight career was really a great grounding for the pro game.

Think you posted this in the wrong section, Zoomy....

My bad.... Where is it meant to go. I am confused with this flashy site! Lol

Moved it to the normal forum for you mate.

Cheers... Think I posted another one on the wrong forum too lol

Whilst I don't think the current era is a particular high point for British boxing, tend to think personally there is a cyclical nature to these things. Calzaghe has only just gone, who can certainly hold his own with any we've produced on these shores. Similarly think we will look back on the career of Froch with nothing but fondness, may be a step short of Ward, but no great shame in that and his level of competition has been little short of staggering.

Should also probbably say I suspect nostalgia plays more than a little part in these matters, think it is human nature to assume everything, be it boxers, music or films were better in our youth. Think what you'd tend to find is if you ask someone ten years older than you when the golden era was he would pick approximately 10 years earlier than you. Funnily enough someone ten years younger would pick a period ten years later.

However for all that, I do think generally the sport is getting a little weaker. There is and always will be fighters like Floyd and Ward who would hold their own in any era, but there does seem a bit of a dearth below that. Think when a heavyweight as admirable, but seemingly limited as Wlad can rule the division with pretty much a rod of iron it tells its own story.

If I had to point the finger where the problem laid would probably lean towards matchmaking and the pressure put on fighters, promoters and TV companis by forums like this and social media. How frequently do we see fighters dismissed as hype jobs or no hopers the minute they have one flat performance or fail to knock a guy bandy inside the first minute? Under such conditions, if you were a promoter would you risk a prospect not having his magical 0 after 20 fights? Remeber watching one of Golden Boys big hopes some time ago, Jacobs or something, had looked a million dollars bowling over the usual collection of journeymen, but the minute he was in with someone who actually punched back he crumbled like a deck of cards.

Where are you drawing the line in the sand? The post Lewis era? Its only been a decade or so since he retired. You would have to give it another 15 years before you can compare.

Overall I think the last few years have been the worst in talent I have witnessed. The ever increasing number of world titles and general bluster of pound for pound crap and the like leads to people being fooled into believing theres more talent around than there is.

Pretty sure there are more top ten world ranked British fighters than ever before (whether being top ten ranked in 2014 is the same thing as 1984 is the argument I guess -- you'd have to say not).

From your original list, only Lewis, Honeyghan and possibly McGuigan and Conteh could be classed as elite level.

In recent years we've had Calzaghe, Hatton and Haye win legitimate championships (matching Lewis, Honey and Barry).

Interesting thoughts ...
What I bemoan is the lack of quality guys that can compete at the highest levels. I don't mean that they go down as all time elite level. But well schooled boxers and god contenders that wouldn't look out of place at world level .... Even the likes of the Colin McMillan's of this world. I just think we are not producing the same quality boxers. I hear the point about nostalgia, and romanticising things, but can anybody really make a solid case of this being a golden era domestically or even globally! I can't see it.
It seems to me that the consistently best schooled boxers for the pro game decade upon decade for a while now have Been the Mexicans. The amateur home grown grounding they get is amazingly tough and it works!

Theres probably more British ranked in the top ten of their divisions now but the divisions are, in general, a lot weaker than in the previous 3 decades.

Rowley wrote:Whilst I don't think the current era is a particular high point for British boxing, tend to think personally there is a cyclical nature to these things. Calzaghe has only just gone, who can certainly hold his own with any we've produced on these shores. Similarly think we will look back on the career of Froch with nothing but fondness, may be a step short of Ward, but no great shame in that and his level of competition has been little short of staggering.

Should also probbably say I suspect nostalgia plays more than a little part in these matters, think it is human nature to assume everything, be it boxers, music or films were better in our youth. Think what you'd tend to find is if you ask someone ten years older than you when the golden era was he would pick approximately 10 years earlier than you. Funnily enough someone ten years younger would pick a period ten years later.

However for all that, I do think generally the sport is getting a little weaker. There is and always will be fighters like Floyd and Ward who would hold their own in any era, but there does seem a bit of a dearth below that. Think when a heavyweight as admirable, but seemingly limited as Wlad can rule the division with pretty much a rod of iron it tells its own story.

If I had to point the finger where the problem laid would probably lean towards matchmaking and the pressure put on fighters, promoters and TV companis by forums like this and social media. How frequently do we see fighters dismissed as hype jobs or no hopers the minute they have one flat performance or fail to knock a guy bandy inside the first minute? Under such conditions, if you were a promoter would you risk a prospect not having his magical 0 after 20 fights? Remeber watching one of Golden Boys big hopes some time ago, Jacobs or something, had looked a million dollars bowling over the usual collection of journeymen, but the minute he was in with someone who actually punched back he crumbled like a deck of cards.

Call me soppy or whatever but Jacobs had an awful lot of personal issues he was dealing with going into the Pirog fight and he was apparently crying in the changing room before walking out into the ring. Don't think his head was screwed on right going into it.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Rowley wrote:Whilst I don't think the current era is a particular high point for British boxing, tend to think personally there is a cyclical nature to these things. Calzaghe has only just gone, who can certainly hold his own with any we've produced on these shores. Similarly think we will look back on the career of Froch with nothing but fondness, may be a step short of Ward, but no great shame in that and his level of competition has been little short of staggering.

Should also probbably say I suspect nostalgia plays more than a little part in these matters, think it is human nature to assume everything, be it boxers, music or films were better in our youth. Think what you'd tend to find is if you ask someone ten years older than you when the golden era was he would pick approximately 10 years earlier than you. Funnily enough someone ten years younger would pick a period ten years later.

However for all that, I do think generally the sport is getting a little weaker. There is and always will be fighters like Floyd and Ward who would hold their own in any era, but there does seem a bit of a dearth below that. Think when a heavyweight as admirable, but seemingly limited as Wlad can rule the division with pretty much a rod of iron it tells its own story.

If I had to point the finger where the problem laid would probably lean towards matchmaking and the pressure put on fighters, promoters and TV companis by forums like this and social media. How frequently do we see fighters dismissed as hype jobs or no hopers the minute they have one flat performance or fail to knock a guy bandy inside the first minute? Under such conditions, if you were a promoter would you risk a prospect not having his magical 0 after 20 fights? Remeber watching one of Golden Boys big hopes some time ago, Jacobs or something, had looked a million dollars bowling over the usual collection of journeymen, but the minute he was in with someone who actually punched back he crumbled like a deck of cards.

Call me soppy or whatever but Jacobs had an awful lot of personal issues he was dealing with going into the Pirog fight and he was apparently crying in the changing room before walking out into the ring. Don't think his head was screwed on right going into it.

The huge cancerous tumour may have had a bearing also  

Good point Alex, if his head  had been screwed on a bit tighter it might not have been knocked off by pirog. Whose to say how things would have panned out had Jacob been in better shape.. Pirog could fight and was way better than anything Jacob had been in with.

Glad Jacob is back fighting. Shame about pirog's back...here's a man who dumped his mandatory to sign for a golovkin fight. Given the endless 'ggg being ducked' debates going on... Pirog actively sought him. Would have been an interesting Fight.

Didn't know that Alex, interesting. In all fairness though you could swap Jacobs' name out for any number of other fighters, domestically Anthony Farnell found himself in a similar position, sailed to around 20-0 and then got absolutely mullered as soon as Takaloo hit him back.

Think it depends on what stance you take when using the phrase 'Golden Era'...if we are to take patriotism out of the equation we as a nation/isles have had very few true Golden Era's...more so the odd spot where we have had a couple of big name stars all at one point in time...

Take the late 80's and early 90's for instance...was it that golden?!

Yes we had and Benn and Eubank and Collins and Bruno...but none of them was truly World Class...only one tested themselves against the very best their respective division had to offer...

Then we had Hamed and Lewis really announce themselves on the biggest stage in the mid-late 90's...2 huge stars, one who transcended the sport here in Britain (in fact this was probably our last true Golden Era)....

You had Hatton & Calzaghe in the 00's but once again, whilst both were World Champions only one came out against on top against the very best they faced and even he arguably missed out on the biggest name until it mattered very little...

Certainly in my time you could say we have only ever had one Golden Era and that was Lewis/Hamed...where we had two guys who were arguably the best their divisions had to offer. Apart from that we have always had one stand out name with a few people a rung or two below true international acclaim...

If you look at today's names I would say it probably is the best era we have had in a very long time in terms of fighters who are in the World Title frame...how many of these are the best in the division though is another argument. We have great depth in a few divisions and domestically moving forward I think it probably is a golden era..

Chisora, Fury, Price, Haye, Joshua

Froch, Groves, DeGale, Fielding, Callum Smith

Eubank Jr, Murray, Macklin, Lee, Ogogo

Brook, Gavin, Khan,

Burns, Crolla, Flanagan, Mitchell, Murray,

Quigg, Frampton, Galahad,

McDonnel, Hall, Butler,

Now whether that becomes a Golden Era for Britain internationally, who knows, but it certainly has the potential too...

12 months from now we could have Frampton, Quigg, Khan, Selby, Murray, Groves, Froch, Brook all big names internationally...chances are though that as always...only one or two will be the men of their division.

McGuigan and Collins are Irish...

This debate has been done to death on here and am sure nobody has much desire to reopen it. However think what was arrived at as something of a consensus was if a fighter is eligible to fight for a British title for boxing purposes we class them as British. As Barry won such a title he certainly fits this criterion, as for Collins I can't comment.

McGuigan would declare himself a Timbuktuian if he thought he could get a few quid out of it.

He has said on Irish TV that he considers himself Irish but he is forever the salesman so who knows if he meant it. He was born and raised in the South but then declared himself a British fighter as this was the best option for career progression at the time.

Basically he'd sell his granny.

True, I think McGuigan fought for Ireland (as in the 32 counties). Like all the Irish boxers today.

'I fight to win....for me...for me' - Barry McGuigan, Rocky 4

Whatever about McGuigan (he really is not popular over here anyway) to claim Collins as a British fighter is absurd. He is about as proud an Irishman as they get.

I guess some people feel similar about McIlroy and McDowell choosing to represent Ireland at the Olympics.....

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about McGuigan (he really is not popular over here anyway) to claim Collins as a British fighter is absurd. He is about as proud an Irishman as they get.

He appeared in a U2 video.

Discussion closed.

Adam D wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about McGuigan (he really is not popular over here anyway) to claim Collins as a British fighter is absurd. He is about as proud an Irishman as they get.

He appeared in a U2 video.

Discussion closed.

The Irish are welcome to him, he was gash.

Discussion closed.

One thing for certain he can't be both Irish and British.

It's like saying I've got a new pedigree dog breed. It's half Alsatian, half Labrador". I go on to Crufts, I go, "Can I enter this dog in the Labrador section?" "No." "Why?" "Because it's not a Labrador." "Correct." "Can I enter it in the Alsatian section?" "No. For the same reasons. Now get that dog out of my sight." "Thanks, I will. You've proved my point." And that's Crufts. All right.

I had to go home in the middle of a quiz to get a book just to prove that point once, Superfly. And then they were all like, "Oh yeah, you were right, sorry." No apologies necessary, you know, just get on with the quiz, but.....Learn.

Rowley wrote:

Adam D wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about McGuigan (he really is not popular over here anyway) to claim Collins as a British fighter is absurd. He is about as proud an Irishman as they get.

He appeared in a U2 video.

Discussion closed.

The Irish are welcome to him, he was gash.

Discussion closed.

U2 are gash as well

Discussion closed