England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

First topic message reminder :

With the Anderson/Jadeja spat in the rear view mirror, we can all move on.

England name an unchanged squad, I'd be surprised if Plunkett didn't play, whether its at the expense of Jordan or Broad is the biggest question. Imagine they'll have planned on resting Broad at some stage.

Blimey !!! 8/4 !

Shades of FS Trueman 1952...

Good catch Jordan ...maybe why they kept him in   

Said there's be some wickets. 40-6 at lunch

hampo171 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Poor batting in the face of rather ordinary bowling.

You'd be saying the exact opposite if SA had done this. Nothing wrong with how England have bowled, got the ball to move and the Indians can't cope with the moving ball. Saying that, England could bowl them out for less than 50 and you'd criticise them.

We'd be bowling better than these medium paced rollers.

hampo171 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Poor batting in the face of rather ordinary bowling.

You'd be saying the exact opposite if SA had done this. Nothing wrong with how England have bowled, got the ball to move and the Indians can't cope with the moving ball. Saying that, England could bowl them out for less than 50 and you'd criticise them.

Please don't quote Gerry, I'd rather not have to read his blatant (and fairly poor) wum attempts.

My apologies GSC   

For all the criticism of Gambhir, hes still top scoring in this Innings.

alfie wrote:Blimey !!!          8/4 !

Shades of FS Trueman 1952...

Good catch Jordan ...maybe why they kept him in   

Haha, I was thinking quite the same. That Test was up North as well, I believe.

Except India were 0/4...tut, tut, England, your standards are slipping!

OMG.......there is something worng with the pitch...we should ask for a restart of the game

for the 5 bowlers to come into play batsman have to put something.......downgraded to 200 required now

These two giving away too many runs.
Time for Woakes methinks  

England would still be happy if they rolled India out for 200; lest we forget, this pitch is a good 'un for batting, and England would be confident of making 300 plus, which would be enough to get into a winning position.

You perhaps feel, though, that restricting India to less than a 150 score, in this present situation, is what England's captain may desire. If one of Woakes or Jordan, perhaps both, make a contribution, then that is exactly what may result.

Lively first half hour , eh   

Interesting to see how Cook handles this situation. Will be tempted to keep these two bowling for a fair while ; but I think I'd like to see Woakes on early , rather than placing it on the openers to do the whole job...conditions will be similar at least up to lunch so he can change things around and keep them fresh.
Reckon Woakes would be well suited to this.

how much is enough on this pitch as the par first inning score very very hard to say........until the second side bowls.

Ind might concede 500 and that's it then......or they might get Eng hopping / jumping and struggling to get 250....we will see.


after this wicket falls Jadeja comes in......whichever way I look at it.......looking very flaky for India
and that's my fear with India....they play themselves out if the test match first day itself.......how the y managed to win at Lords is still a dream

Duty281 wrote:England would still be happy if they rolled India out for 200; lest we forget, this pitch is a good 'un for batting, and England would be confident of making 300 plus, which would be enough to get into a winning position.

You perhaps feel, though, that restricting India to less than a 150 score, in this present situation, is what England's captain may desire. If one of Woakes or Jordan, perhaps both, make a contribution, then that is exactly what may result.

After this start , I'd be unhappy to concede even 150. Though batting will probably get easier later on...and the Indian tail has been known to wag.

If they can get Rahane quickly now , they could very possibly have them out for under 100.

Five each now . Time to rest Broad , perhaps

Just died down a bit, give woakes the ball, broad on after Anderson 8th I'd go for

the ball still beating the bat regularly but these two have managed to avoid edging one so far.

lively start, india looking to rebuild.

turning into a competitive series.

Woakes on. Opportunity for him , surely.

could/should have had Dhoni as the captain flashes at one, but Jordan can't quite react in time and it goes for four. A pretty decent start by Woakes, some swing and made the batsmen play at everything.

outfield too slow.....

Woakes hasn't really had much luck so far in his brief Test career. You'd think by now someone would have swatted a short ball straight to cover or something ; but all he has is some nice "beat the bat - nearly" moments. And half chances...
He got one at The Oval last year didn't he ? But nothing since.

Dhoni wants to score when he gets the chance : fair enough. Not going to just sit there like a passive target. But should encourage England to keep seeking that edge...

KP_fan wrote:outfield too slow.....

Happens when it rains

Crucial England keep attacking with their field placing a and play the scoreboard and not the partnership so to speak. Easy to go slightly defensive when two batsmen look settled after a flurry of wickets. Ball is still swinging and another wicket may see another flurry.

Jordan on. Hope he has more control than last time...

alfie wrote:Woakes hasn't really had much luck so far in his brief Test career. You'd think by now someone would have swatted a short ball straight to cover or something ; but all he has is some nice "beat the bat - nearly" moments. And half chances...
He got one at The Oval last year didn't he ?  But nothing since.

Dhoni wants to score when he gets the chance : fair enough. Not going to just sit there like a passive target. But should encourage England to keep seeking that edge...

it appears like that ( in the underlined) when a bowler cannot think like a bowler......read the batsman, pitch match situations, plan and alter his fields, length, line etc......and plot a dismissal.

Just comes in and puts a percentage delivery...same for all conditions and situations.

Bit harsh , KP f ?

Reckon he bowled pretty well last week. Not in Anderson's class , of course ; and still light on experience.
To be honest , I wasn't impressed last year ; but he seems to have improved , and added a bit of nip.
I'll watch a bit more of him before I dismiss him so blithely.

to be fair to these two, they've done a very good job so far. They rode their luck early on, but the pitch is easing up a bit now, and looks a pretty good pitch to bat on.

These two batsmen are doing a good job for India. One of them gone early and it might have been eight down by lunch...as it is they are bringing their team back into the game.
With conditions presumably easier after the break the chance of turning this into an acceptable score may present itself. England will need serious contributions from Woakes and Jordan...can't expect the two main men plus Moeen to do it all again...

Conditions have settled and the pitch is good. Did well to ride out that period.

Partnership broken, nip them out for under a hundred now and that's a very good start

GSC wrote:Conditions have settled and the pitch is good. Did well to ride out that period.

Indeed. Getting to lunch with still only four down will represent quite an achievement. Still could fall apart when one of these does get out ; but with Ashwin and Jadeja to come they could yet turn this around and get a par score ...

And then Jordan strikes   

Rahane ...big wicket .

That late wicket makes it comfortably England's session.

One more over ? Tempting to bring Broad back ; but still Woakes.

that wicket was important for England as India had just got a little bit of momentum and with the pitch flattening could have set themselves up for a decent total. England will be delighted with that session.

can I be optimistic to claim second hour belonged to India ??

Its hard to prognosticate anything....and so the safest conclusion for now and while we are batting is....." we are s.crewed"

Until Eng bats and in a low likely case proves us wrong....more likely they will pile 500 runs and make it miserable for us

The way they went about in the last test, this was always on the cards. I wondered at that time whether its all gone back to 2011, and that's pretty much what seems to have happened.
Of course Dhoni didn't act far too stubborn and brought about the right changes, but it hasn't worked. I wasn't sure about the Gambhir option, but I won't blame the captain or the management for that, its been the selectors who gave them no option by picking Gambhir who didn't do anything to earn a recall as the extra opener. Shikhar's game wasn't there really, it just wasn't about his struggles in the seaming conditions, his confidence had gone and he couldn't even handle the parttime spinners with intent and confidence. If Dhawan had to go then it had to be Gambhir coming in. But Gambhir got out the same old stupid way of his to let everyone down. The conditions were tough, but the way he got out was disgustingly familiar.......

No worries KPF, Sir Ravindra Jadeja will score his 4th First Class triple hundred to put India pass 600!!!.

msp83 wrote:No worries KPF, Sir Ravindra Jadeja will score his 4th First Class triple hundred to put India pass 600!!!.

fighting 20s and 30s from everyone from here is my realistic best expectation with Dhoni holding the otehr end

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:No worries KPF, Sir Ravindra Jadeja will score his 4th First Class triple hundred to put India pass 600!!!.

fighting 20s and 30s from everyone from here is my realistic best expectation with Dhoni holding the otehr end

I was just trying to see the funny side of things if at all that is possible in this scenario where we are completely destroyed.
Getting pass 170 180 will be an achievement....... and if they can limit England to a lead of 250, then that will be a job well done. But India could be bowled out around 150, and England would end up racking up 500 +.
High time England get some much needed rain in such a dry, and hot summer!!!.

I am so...both stressed and p.issed that humor has all vanished from within for now.

we picked a team to get the 4th inning advantage on D5 but the most likely scenario......an inning defeat in under 4 days....has made that team selection redundant.

today we will see the tail-ender in Ashwin whose batting was being touted as equal to Binny ; Rohit.
Ohh how we would love to have a 6th batsman who could get a 50.

That 6th batsman is not certainly Rohit!....

classic Anderson, pushes a couple accross Jadeja before swinging one back to trap him in front. Beautifully done, looks like Anderson enjoyed that one

see anderson.....in contrast to Woakes...he knows what he is plotting for a specific batsman....and then he puts the ball as per that plan.
Woakes just comes in and puts it at the same location.....with absolutely no plan at all

You're being very harsh on Chris Woakes KPF, Anderson has developed the ability he has now over time, I remember when he came in to the team and he did exactly what you're describing. Woakes just needs that bit of luck to get a few wickets and his confidence will grow.

Anderson outclasses Jadeja....again!

Ashwin looks like he's going to play positively...

Jadeja just falling short of his tripple by only 300 runs!!.
Getting to a hundred looks impossible for India here.

now downgraded expectation to 150

hampo171 wrote:You're being very harsh on Chris Woakes KPF, Anderson has developed the ability he has now over time, I remember when he came in to the team and he did exactly what you're describing. Woakes just needs that bit of luck to get a few wickets and his confidence will grow.

I agree he can develop....maybe.
I am stating how he is now.....
and also not all new coming bowlers are so mechanical.
Stokes and Plunket have more thinking put into their bowling for example

KP_fan wrote:

hampo171 wrote:You're being very harsh on Chris Woakes KPF, Anderson has developed the ability he has now over time, I remember when he came in to the team and he did exactly what you're describing. Woakes just needs that bit of luck to get a few wickets and his confidence will grow.

I agree he can develop....maybe.
I am stating how he is now.....
and also not all new coming bowlers are so mechanical.
Stokes and Plunket have more thinking put into their bowling for example

Averaging with 25 in FC cricket so he can easily get better, only his 3rd test as well. Plunkett should be putting more thought in to his bowling as he is a front line bowler who can bat a bit however running in and just bowling short doesn't work at test level unless you're express pace, Stokes is a good cricketer and has a very good future ahead of him.

Anderson still getting boom swing and seam movement......and more importantly with pace and bounce so the edges are all carying unlike the previous games.