England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

First topic message reminder :

With the Anderson/Jadeja spat in the rear view mirror, we can all move on.

England name an unchanged squad, I'd be surprised if Plunkett didn't play, whether its at the expense of Jordan or Broad is the biggest question. Imagine they'll have planned on resting Broad at some stage.

I'm working on a theory, that at any position within the game, somebody on the v2 site will want England to go hell for leather

On the bright side for all concerned, Chris Jordan is straight out of the Stuart Broad school of batting.

Jordan should smash it. That's his job anyway. If he gets out early root comes in and settles things down anyway. He would only have smashed it later on if he wasn't the night watchman.

No, I feel Jordan should bat and err more on the side of caution. Making the Indians feel frustrated, as they will if they do not take an early wicket, will be a wonderful asset for England, and will lead to an opportunity for scoring some quick runs, as the visitors' heads quickly drop.

Wow. That's some catch. Almost jordanesque....

Well that is the end of Jordan's little sojourn. Little chink of light shines for India; England must shut the door.

Poor shot from Jordan, too high to be playing that shot and while it was a good catch there is just no need to be playing it at the moment.

and now Bell gone fishing at a wide one, poor shot, and a chance here for India.

Will be interesting to see how Buttler plays if he comes in within the next 50 runs. Will he get criticised for playing his natural game if he gets out trying to score, or will people moan that he tried to play sensibly.

And England didn't shut the door, and now a proper problem results. Three wickets in the last ten overs.

England are still around 162 runs short of, what I would call, a comfortable position.

The ball is doing a bit, murky conditions, India with their tails up, and two new batsmen at the crease...eeek!

hampo171 wrote:Will be interesting to see how Buttler plays if he comes in within the next 50 runs. Will he get criticised for playing his natural game if he gets out trying to score, or will people moan that he tried to play sensibly.

If that happens, then he must play sensibly and rein in his usual attacking instincts. Such a scenario would also give a greater assessment of his ability than the Test at Southampton, where some people, rather foolishly, were claiming that he had already proven himself to be a test-class player.

This is actually beneficial. We should still get a minimum of a 120 lead still with root about and butters, broad , jimmy , Ali , wakes and there is a lot going on on the pitch for our bowlers and time is of the essence. By playing badly it may get us the win.

lousy over-rate from India, just 12 overs in that hour. Dreadful...

England take the lead!

England lead. Good chance for Moeen to lay down a marker here, while his bowling has done well this series, he hasn't really shone with the bat so far in his Test career (roughly on a par with Robbo IMO, who seems to be getting far more stick).

This one is in the balance really. England aren't in a great position to get a strong lead with the top order doing it's old trick of failing to seize the initiative.

Queue 100 partnership  

Has to be worth a try.

Always trebs . Always

Superb ball to get rid of Ali, swung back in late and castled him.

Moeen goes. Nice stuff from Aaron, gets Moeen in trouble with a bouncer and the next is full and straight, swinging back in and cleans him up completely. Moeen's problems continue...

Good. We could be on for a decent test. I am not worried at all.

The pitch is a minfield

mystiroakey wrote:
The pitch is a minfield

    

Minefield...

I can't be bothered to do those faces again but there's not an awful lot wrong with the pitch, ball is doing a bit but certainly not a minefield.

Games certainly moving along. Lead of 75 could be invaluable here.

Good test for Buttler as well.

Aaron got a bit over-excited by that wicket. Over-reaches for a couple and no-balls and then a wild delivery goes for four byes (bit harsh on Dhoni that, had no chance of stopping it). India need to be a bit careful, in what's shaping up to be a low-scoring game you don't want to give away free runs...

Looking like a decent lead isn't coming. Batting last here will be horrible so maybe India did exactly the right thing batting first as it turns out,

I'd say 300 is par for this wicket, but England could have had a lot more given their situation at stumps. Some tidy Indian bowling has kept them in check thus far.

hampo171 wrote:I can't be bothered to do those faces again but there's not an awful lot wrong with the pitch, ball is doing a bit but certainly not a minefield.

Pitch/ ball swinging. Does it matter as it relates to the same thing. It's tough to get in and will only help jimmy out if it stays the same.

mystiroakey wrote:

hampo171 wrote:I can't be bothered to do those faces again but there's not an awful lot wrong with the pitch, ball is doing a bit but certainly not a minefield.

Pitch/ ball swinging. Does it matter as it relates to the same thing. It's tough to get in and will only help jimmy out if it stays the same.

Depends which way you look at it, I do a lot of work on the wicket at my club and it drives me crazy when a player says it's a minefield when it isn't. Can't blame the pitch for the ball moving in the air, it's difficult but calling it a minefield is massively over the top mate. Essentially saying a pitch is a minefield insinuates that the groundsman hasn't prepared a very good wicket.

Maybe it's just my annoyance at hearing club cricketers say "It's a minefield" when they've been bowled top of off stump

Duty281 wrote:I'd say 300 is par for this wicket, but England could have had a lot more given their situation at stumps. Some tidy Indian bowling has kept them in check thus far.

Totally agree, India have bowled well in this innings and certainly this morning. England still going to be in a decent position and one 1/2 decent partnership can still put India under serious pressure.

Indias session, not by a great deal though. 3 wickets is a good result, but England scored at a decent clip there. Lead of 49.

India probably need to blast England out in the hour post lunch to put them under pressure.

England still maintain their advantage, but some good Indian bowling has ensured that the home side have not quite run away with the game just yet.

Good to see Root and Buttler (test average of 98!) apply themselves to the break.

Lead of 49, so England will be expectant of stretching that by another hundred runs at least.

http://www.raintoday.co.uk

No rain yet, according to this weather map.

India just hung in....and are still in the game.
Fear and likelihood....is Butlers Root will break through and put Eng in ascendancy in next session.

Pankaj has disappointed, pitch conditions, experience all with him and yet he disappoints.

Still a small chance India could get the last 4 withing next 50 runs.

Eng favorites even in India's best case

hampo171 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

hampo171 wrote:I can't be bothered to do those faces again but there's not an awful lot wrong with the pitch, ball is doing a bit but certainly not a minefield.

Pitch/ ball swinging. Does it matter as it relates to the same thing. It's tough to get in and will only help jimmy out if it stays the same.

Depends which way you look at it, I do a lot of work on the wicket at my club and it drives me crazy when a player says it's a minefield when it isn't. Can't blame the pitch for the ball moving in the air, it's difficult but calling it a minefield is massively over the top mate. Essentially saying a pitch is a minefield insinuates that the groundsman hasn't prepared a very good wicket.

Maybe it's just my annoyance at hearing club cricketers say "It's a minefield" when they've been bowled top of off stump

Ok got ya.. My terminology is a bit off.

Get the sense if Buttler bats for an hour, the game will be out of reach for India. These are the innings Prior used to excel in for England.

India needed at least 1 more wicket in that morning session. Now it will be difficult to restrict them to a lead under 120-130 that would have given them a small lifeline. Anything over 150 lead, India have to seek refuge with the weather gods.......

It's all about root sticking about. But he invariably does. Butters in now in so yes we could get fireworks

Rain falling, India won't mind you suspect, this game has started to get away after lunch.

Gutting..

England could lose a day and a half to the weather and still be in a good position. Also, any delay gives Anderson and co a bit more time to put their feet up.
Before the rain I was thinking back to that extraordinary Test at Leeds against the Windies in 2000 when it was all over by tea on the SECOND DAY.

Yes a day and a half no problem. - 2.5 = problems.

Sunday and Monday could be off.

Hopefully we can get back out there today - plie on another 70- tomorrow get 50 quick. Stick india in and bowl them out as the weather looks fine tomorrow.

Haven't been able to watch the game today, how is the rain situation? Is it porring down or a passing one?

Storm coming

Anyone know if the rain is likely to stick around, or is it a passing (heavy) shower?

This does bring England's options into sharper focus - lead currently approaching 100, and with Buttler in alongside Root, with Woakes and Broad still to come we have the opportunity to accelerate and accept a lead of 150 or so scored quickly or to be a little more circumspect and look to get 200+ ahead at a steadier rate.

My understanding is the weather tomorrow looks set fair, but the last two days could be significantly disrupted. However, it is pretty rare for complete days to be washed out, so I think we can probably expect about the equivalent of two full days in the rest of today and the remaining 3. Certainly scuppers any chance of an Indian fightback for victory but makes the chances of a draw slightly better. Then again, the way most of the Indian batsmen failed to cope with the lateral movement found ju Jimmy and Broad yesterday, we may already have enough in the bank...

Given the puddles on the outfield, we might in stuck for a while.

Some good work from India before lunch. Looked a bit passive since they came back out though : Jadeja just doesn't look threatening at all.
Root and Buttler getting England back on track...85 on now , and if this is going to be a low scoring game that is already handy.

Lot of talk about the weather : if it rains for three days not much anyone can do ; but given another 150 overs (too much to ask over three and a half days ?) a result may well be on. I don't think you can worry too much about the forecast this early in the match. You have to assume you're going to get a reasonable amount of play in , and play accordingly. If there is weather about , you might push on a bit earlier than otherwise ; but it would be silly to go completely nuts and risk a good position when we really cannot know for sure what Sunday and Monday will bring.
Anyway these two are scoring quite briskly...a busy pair. Hope they can get back on later , but I think I'll have a nap...

16 wickets in just over four sessions. It's gonna take a proper bucket load to halt a result in this game

Rain will spice up the pitch a little more as well you'd think