PEACE IN OUR TIME ?

by PenfroPete Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/11053056/Welsh-regions-and-WRU-finally-thrash-out-peace-deal-with-dual-contracts-for-10-players.html

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:05 am

In fairness to the Dragons, they have also had players like Gough, Rhys Thomas etc that were poached too. Its unfair to say they don't deveope the talent, they have just struggled to hold in to it.

I think this season they should be fighting it out for the second region spot.

by maestegmafia Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:33 am

The dragons have produced plenty of decent players, now they look able to hold on to them too. Decent coaching set up and new training facilities. Their prospects are looking up.

by Cardiff Dave Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:23 am

Intriguing...

Robin Davey ‏@robindavey01
"WRU came under heavy pressure from Irish, Scots, Italians and Guinness to do a deal with the regions. Caved in"

by Neutralee Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:33 am

Risca Rev wrote:This one there's two, but I wasn't on about the one now (wasn't even aware of it, to be honest). I was more on about people like Angus etc.

Angus O Brien? He's an U20. Odd fact, I coached the lad a few years ago, wasn't particularly stand out, was a bit of a utility player, covered 9,10,centre and FB. He mustve come on leaps and bounds in the last 2 years to come through the academy like he has.

by Scrumpy Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:35 am

That's a shame I was rather enjoying that. Crying or Very sad

by Cardiff Dave Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:01 am

Scrumpy wrote:That's a shame I was rather enjoying that.

Don't be downhearted as i'm sure, nay, I have no doubt whatsoever that the fun will continue in some shape or form even with this reported so called "agreement".

by doctornickolas Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:36 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:Intriguing...

Robin Davey ‏@robindavey01
"WRU came under heavy pressure from Irish, Scots, Italians and Guinness to do a deal with the regions. Caved in"

Robin Davey is a true prize idiot though. Some of the crap he comes out with. I don't think the man has ever been out of Newport.

by The Saint Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:59 am

Neutralee wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:This one there's two, but I wasn't on about the one now (wasn't even aware of it, to be honest). I was more on about people like Angus etc.

Angus O Brien? He's an U20. Odd fact, I coached the lad a few years ago, wasn't particularly stand out, was a bit of a utility player, covered 9,10,centre and FB. He mustve come on leaps and bounds in the last 2 years to come through the academy like he has.

Not really as he isn't that good.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:29 pm

Peace in our time? Fingers blydi crossed, but there's still time for Roger to throw an ego-shaped spanner in the works. If a deal is done, it'll be despite him, not because of him.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:50 pm

Welcome back Steely Dan fan. Been away a while eh?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:53 pm

It has been a while. I blame my new job, where I actually have to work!

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:56 pm

Ah! No more sweating in the cabin then.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:58 pm

Nope. I have colleagues and everything now. Very Happy

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:03 pm

Well done mate. Best of luck to the dragons. You get us at Dave parade during the Euro knockouts.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:06 pm

I can't wait for the season to start. Anything is possible before that first kick-off!

by HammerofThunor Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:27 pm

Not seen this yet but

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/28956029

by Knowsit17 Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:29 pm

Sounds all done and dusted. Aside from the initial report of 10 players getting dual contracts looking potentially overoptimistic, the content of the agreement looks like the correct model for taking Welsh rugby in its entirety forward at last.

The return of the A team is a particularly interesting development. Wales' depth/capacity to provide an effective A squad has been a point of intense debate in the past. One would hope at this point it will at least offer a higher level of player development.

The emphasis on home-based selection puzzles me. It's virtually identical in wording to the policy outlined by Gatland when he first took over the national team. What happened to that? Did it expire with the original agreement?

by HammerofThunor Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:36 pm

BBC wrote:WRU increases regions' funding from £6.7m to £8.7m
Top home-based Test stars to be offered dual-contracts
Wales coach Warren Gatland to decide who is offered dual deals, those players to become WRU employees
Home-based players to be favoured in Wales selection
The £8.7m includes £2m set aside for dual contracts
Wales A games to return from January, 2015

by HammerofThunor Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:47 pm

My thoughts on this as an outsider:

First off, it's done until 2020. Unless someone's lawyers were morons it should sort out a lot until then at least (around the same time the MS is paid off right?).

Next, still not sure what these dual contracts are. It seems they'll be funded by the £2M extra and that's shared by the regions...is that evenly or based on the players? That would be a maximum contract of £500k for a player (if there are 6). If there were 10 it would be £333k. Which is probably not that much compared with French offers so I can't see it being that many (although they could still be uneven).

The A team? Not sure it's worth that much. The Saxons are largely a waste of time and the large tour squads with mid week games are much better IMO. Getting a few guys together for a week to play another scratch team? After all calls for the A team to return I think it's died a bit of a death (no more Churchill Cup, etc). It just means more players will be missing from the Regions for longer. Although this could be used to kick start the A level again. Also tighter WQ limits (no mention of non-capped NQW being different which is good).

Not sure what the home selection bias will be. It doesn't mean anything unless it's seen to happen (as with Lancaster at the moment). We will see.

Hopefully this will be a temporary 6 year solution that will cover a negotiation and planning period to sort stuff out properly.

by SecretFly Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:55 pm

I'm still at war. No peace for me. I'm barricaded in. I've got my sandwiches and me tea bags. I'm here for the long haul. I demand my demands are met in full!

by HammerofThunor Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:03 pm

You go Fly. Fight the good fight.

Here's the RRW release.

http://www.regionalrugbywales.com/2014/08/28/new-rugby-services-agreement-announced/

Unfortunately they do still have 2 project players (no t sure these are in the 6 or on top of it).

by wayne Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:09 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:You go Fly. Fight the good fight.

Here's the RRW release.

http://www.regionalrugbywales.com/2014/08/28/new-rugby-services-agreement-announced/

Unfortunately they do still have 2 project players (no t sure these are in the 6 or on top of it).

On top Hammer

by dragon4life Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:14 pm

Is the salary cap still the same or have they increased it?

by **Notch** Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:19 pm

I guess we'll have a few more games for our A team now that Wales are going to field an A side but to be honest, with the amount of rugby there is already in the season, I'm not sure we get anything out of it apart from another game. For Ireland it's very, very rare that a big performance in an A game leads to real international caps. Normally the guys who actually have a chance of playing in the tests are in a separate camp and the A team is just fringe players, kids and a few guys who will never make the step up.

It's not that great.

by Allty Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:55 pm

I think the WRU have won this big time. I remain unsure what the regions have been trying to or have achieved.

I'm pleased about A teams used properly it is a natural progression to a full cap

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:04 pm

I'm not sure the A team playing one match a season is them being 'used properly'.

by Allty Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:10 pm

I'm sorry I thought it would be a 6N A team event

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:13 pm

I thought I read they'd be playing one match a season. Maybe I imagined it.

by Casartelli Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:20 pm

Six more years boys, six more years.

by wayne Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:22 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I thought I read they'd be playing one match a season. Maybe I imagined it.

You read right LS, one game the weekend before the 6N, A WASTE OF TIME, this will further hit the Regions as they will have a full programme of games that weekend.

by doctor_grey Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:23 pm

SecretFly wrote:I'm still at war. No peace for me. I'm barricaded in. I've got my sandwiches and me tea bags. I'm here for the long haul. I demand my demands are met in full!

Dude, only sandwiches and tea bags? No women? If you are shut away for the long haul, you gots to have some women.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:33 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm still at war. No peace for me. I'm barricaded in. I've got my sandwiches and me tea bags. I'm here for the long haul. I demand my demands are met in full!
Dude, only sandwiches and tea bags? No women? If you are shut away for the long haul, you gots to have some women.

You could build a woman using tea bags and sandwiches. Well, one sandwich, cut diagonally.

by The Saint Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:28 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not sure the A team playing one match a season is them being 'used properly'.

It's a run out for the fringe players of the Wales squad. I don't mind so long as McBryde isn't coaching...

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:58 am

Who will they play? Have they said? It'll mean even less if they're playing Mickey Mouse opponents.

by HammerofThunor Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:40 am

Well England, Scotland and Ireland have all had games at A level around that time. Of course another side issue is that U20 will no longer tie players to Wales.

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:05 am

Allty wrote:I think the WRU have won this big time. I remain unsure what the regions have been trying to or have achieved.

I'm pleased about A teams used properly it is a natural progression to a full cap

This agrement gives the regions everything they've been asking for over the last two years doesn't it?

You need to wipe the Western Mail out of your eyes mush.

by Allty Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:40 am

Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.

by wayne Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:05 am

Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.

They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

by LordDowlais Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:13 am

wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An "A" team ? Rolling Eyes

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:14 am

wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

Whilst you're at it Allty, can you also note that the press release yesterday, whereby the WRU explicitly state they do not give the regions circa £16m per annum, and do not wholly fund the regional academies, has made them, you, and the rest of the pro-Roger brigade look quite the bunch of t1ts

by Cardiff Dave Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:14 am

wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An A game. Maybe.

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:16 am

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An "A" team ?

For one game per season, at the WRU's own cost. Hooray for Rog! Peace in Our Time indeed...

by Cardiff Dave Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:21 am

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An "A" team ?

Welcome back Merthyr man.

by Cardiff Dave Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:22 am

Is PRGB back on with an independent judge to have the casting vote?

by LordDowlais Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:22 am

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An "A" team ?

For one game per season, at the WRU's own cost. Hooray for Rog! Peace in Our Time indeed...

How much money would "A" team game generate though, both from T.V, advertising and ticket sales ? They would stand to make something, surley ? Or was this something they have thrown in, just to get something back ? chin

by LordDowlais Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:24 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An "A" team ?

Welcome back Merthyr man.

Cheers CD, I thought I would come back for the new season, went on a few other sites, but this one was always a little more unique for me if you know what I mean.

by Cardiff Dave Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:24 am

ScrumV on Radio Wales last night. Jiffy calls Dodger a fibber, twice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04f8vlk

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:25 am

I would say it's a face-saving exercise for Rog and Dai, and little more. Just going on their shambolic performance in wringing the best financial benefits out of their current empire, like

by Cardiff Dave Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:26 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
Allty wrote:Silly me I thought the regions have been very opposed to CC's and needed lots of money.
They were against Central Contracts, which have NOT been implemented, they have never been against DUAL contracts which has been implemented, I presume you know the difference. They (Regions) have total control of the academies with no loss of WRU money, they have £2M extra every year and every Region has a £500,000 one off payment for this year. What have the WRU gained from this exercise, NO extra time with TW, having to fork out the above amounts without any material advantage to TW, lets see you list what the WRU have gained.

An "A" team ?

For one game per season, at the WRU's own cost. Hooray for Rog! Peace in Our Time indeed...

How much money would "A" team game generate though, both from T.V, advertising and ticket sales ? They would stand to make something, surley ? Or was this something they have thrown in, just to get something back ?

This I reckon.

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:27 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:Is PRGB back on with an independent judge to have the casting vote?

Wasn't it revealed that Wyn Williams cast the deciding vote on the new agreement?

Another kick in the balls for the saw-sharpener Very Happy

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