Coyle & Campbell

Good afternoon all.

Apparently Matchroom have leaked Coyle and Campbell's opponents for their show in Hull this October.

Coyle will face Michael Katsidis and Campbell will be up against Coyle's previous opponent, Brizuela.

What does everyone make of this? I haven't followed Katsidis career in a while but if he hasn't faded since the Burns fight, I think he brings too much for Coyle.

Campbell fighting Brizuela should be a cracking match-up also, with the Argentine fresh off that barnstormer with Coyle.

I think it's nice that Hearn and Matchroom have given perennial journeyman, TBC the night off and put their fighters in with some tidy fighters.

Katsidis ???......................Another fighter heading down brain damage alley..

Campbell's fight is a good one for him at this stage im looking forward to it as for katsidis coyle should beat him easily as he is way way way past it sadly, he would have obliterated coyle somewhere near his prime

Good step up for Campbell, kats obviously well past his prime but wil probably Make for an entertaining tussle with coyle

How much has Katsidis been in decline recently then? I just looked up and read something about 'brain scarring', that doesn't sound too clever. I remember watching him around the time he fought Casamayor and thought he was absolutely box office, a real warrior. I guess that style is tought to maintain without risking your health and career.

AJ's oppo isn't the worst either (Konstantin Airich). At least he's got a bit of a chin and has been in with a couple of decent names - taking Solis the distance being the highlight of his CV pretty much.

Couple of early ko's in there also though, which isn't helpful.

His own ko ratio is reasonably his though so hopefully he will test AJ's chin at least once before getting flattened.

Lost his last fight to Denis Bakhtov who is 38-9 ..........He's 21-9 been stopped four times and is 35 years old....Including ko 1 by Charr..

Can't wait !!.......I'll enjoy all two minutes of it..

Pointless.

Its only his 8th fight Truss. Remember Mayweather tackled the wrecking ball Larry O'Shields in his 8th fight. Whats wrong with fighters settling into the pro game. The fella still needs rounds, exposure etc. Throw him in the deep end like Price and we have another Audley.

Heavyweight division is full of crap............He's treading water..............WTF is this oaf going to teach him..

He's wasting good time......In two,three years time some Tyson type may come a long..

He's ready now..........As he'll ever be...........Unless you can get a guy to take him 8 rounds...

This guy lost in 1 to Charr....So he won't....He'll take the money and run..

Chitalada beat Magri in his 8th fight.............You're ready .......You're ready.

Not like Louis.......

Who fought Galento and Paycheck types......

And is a great......

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Its only his 8th fight Truss. Remember Mayweather tackled the wrecking ball Larry O'Shields in his 8th fight. Whats wrong with fighters settling into the pro game. The fella still needs rounds, exposure etc. Throw him in the deep end like Price and we have another Audley.

Went six rounds in his 8th fight too Mate.....Plus he was five years younger..

Fact is it's horses for courses............Joshua hasn't got the opposition to bring him on...........He's in his prime at 24.....Why waste it.

I guess Joshua was late to the amateur game and they want to tread carefully but these kind of fights are unlikely to teach him anything. Its Tricky in the heavies as there aren't the durable journeymen there used to be. I'm inclined to think they should be upping the ante with Joshua.

Bringing up other people and who they fought is pointless when it comes to AJ; people are completely looking over the point of there own argument and that is the Heavyweight division is unlike any other at the moment...it is pretty pi** poor except for the top bracket and whilst that isn't great many of them are hugely experienced both as pro's and amateurs..

All well and good saying opposition like this is rubbish but not much out there except this atm; there's no middle ground in this division..very few tough, durable journeymen and those that do exist are capable of springing a shock and upsetting the apple cart...i.e. Tony Thompson.

At 24 Joshua isn't in his prime, not even close in terms of physical development or boxing experience (given he only took to the sport at 18)...so saying he's wasting that is nonsense.

I see no reason to chuck him in with Haye, Fury, Wilder or Klitschko or Stiverene at this stage as all are just stupidly bad business choices at this stage. Regardless of who he faces in next 12 months....12 months of sparring and experience aren't going to harm him or his chances...however stepping in with one of those and being beaten or KO'd could very well.

If were at this point come January next year then I would begin to question his opponents but at this stage I don't see much wrong with the path he is on.

Schwarzenegger was Mr Olympia three times by the time he was 24........Ali was 22 years old when he won the title and his greatest performance against Big cat was when he was 24...

Tyson's great reign was finished by the time he was 24...

So don't give me this he's not in his prime......or physical development ........garbage....

I said the same thing about the heavyweight division as Owen, there doesn't seem to be any gatekeepers around for each development stage. It really is a case of a steep learning curve.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in with Tony Thompson soon, mind. I guess that puts me somewhere between Owen and Truss.

Dipper Brown wrote: I guess that puts me somewhere between Owen and Truss.

Not a sandwich I'd like to be the meat in

Ha, I most definitely could have chosen my words better.

Not daft at all to suggest that, at 24, Joshua may well already be well in to his purely physical prime, and might be as strong, quick and fit as he'll ever be. But that doesn't mean he's at the peak of his capabilities and as good as he'll ever be in the all-round sense. Throwing him in against a Wlad, a Haye, a Stiverne (hell, even a Povetkin) right now wouldn't be a clever move, for me. Hitting hard and being strong as an ox won't help him against those guys if he's never been in with anyone who has really made him work for a stoppage, shown him some different looks and moves, forced him to digest some worthwhile shots etc. The main guys in the division would expose that naivety he's still got as a fighter badly as things stand (and that's not a knock against Joshua, as anyfighter so early in to their pro careers, regardless of amateur pedigree, has that naivety in them, as even the likes of Rigondeaux and Lomachenko have shown to varying degrees).

As others have said, it's best to be in between the two extremes on show here, I reckon. No point saying that he's going to learn anything from the above scheduled fight or that he needs any more of these kind of bouts, but also no reason to be turning his attention to the biggest names in the division yet either. Thompson would be an excellent fight for him next up. If not, someone like Kingpin Johnson or even Cunningham. All of those guys are prohibitive underdogs against Joshua, but are cute and smart enough defensively to show him some stuff he's never seen, make him pace himself a little, make him work on defence etc.

The idea is that Coyle and Campbell will meet early next year. Big event in Hull.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Schwarzenegger was Mr Olympia three times by the time he was 24........Ali was 22 years old when he won the title and his greatest performance against Big cat was when he was 24...

Tyson's great reign was finished by the time he was 24...

So don't give me this he's not in his prime......or physical development ........garbage....

And he was boxing from what, 13? Won his first amateur titles aged 15. Bit different to a guy who didn't even take up the sport until he was 18.

Also, using a guy who's known more than any other for the shortness of his career/peak, is hardly a robust argument or barometer.

It took Wlad 4 years and 35 fights before winning a proper world hw title.

Most boxers start around 13.......What a wally..

Yes but Joshua didn't so he needs to get the experience that most of the other Heavyweights have.

don't think you can making sweeping statements about physical primes. It used to be considered that for most sports it was mid-late 20's on average. But people mature at vastly varying rates. It's also difficult for those not involved with monitoring fitness/strength levels on a regular basis to make a judgement, as obviously skill/experience levels can give a perception of a peak being different to the reality.

In boxing its clouded by the wear and tear/punches taken etc over the career, so early starters are often finished earlier.

Heavyweights in particular seem to peak later than ever. But whether that's their physical peak or their skills peak?

Remember harry carpenter's gushing amazement at ali winning the title back from foreman... at his age (32!). Foreman was only 25, he was just 24 when he beat frazier.

In short joshua may well be at his physical peak. It's not impossible that he's past it, but most likely is a little short of it. He looks like he has plenty to learn still so you'd expect him to be short of his 'prime' as a fighter. How best to get to that prime, in the absence of durable but relatively-none-threatening tests, is the great ponderable.

Derbymanc wrote:Yes but Joshua didn't so he needs to get the experience that most of the other Heavyweights have.

Exactly, didn't think it was that hard to understand.........

Joshua needs to starting fighting people who hit back. He has been nurtured for long enough now. He needs some real fights where he would be learning boxing as opposed to learning how to hit a human punchbag

7 fights = 'long enough'

milkyboy wrote:don't think you can making sweeping statements about physical primes. It used to be considered that for most sports it was mid-late 20's on average. But people mature at vastly varying rates. It's also difficult for those not involved with monitoring fitness/strength levels on a regular basis to make a judgement, as obviously skill/experience levels can give a perception of a peak being different to the reality.

In boxing its clouded by the wear and tear/punches taken etc over the career, so early starters are often finished earlier.

Heavyweights in particular seem to peak later than ever. But whether that's their physical peak or their skills peak?

Remember harry carpenter's gushing amazement at ali winning the title back from foreman... at his age (32!). Foreman was only 25, he was just 24 when he beat frazier.

In short joshua may well be at his physical peak. It's not impossible that he's past it, but most likely is a little short of it. He looks like he has plenty to learn still so you'd expect him to be short of his 'prime' as a fighter. How best to get to that prime, in the absence of durable but relatively-none-threatening tests,  is the great ponderable.

I agree..........So you can't say Joshua isn't in his now..

Tyson was 17 when he went to the olympic trials.........Ali was 18 when he won the Olympics..

And AJ was 18 then first time he ever stepped in boxing ring.

So what's your point?

Steffan wrote:Joshua needs to starting fighting people who hit back. He has been nurtured for long enough now. He needs some real fights where he would be learning boxing as opposed to learning how to hit a human punchbag

Yep he's treading water..........

TopHat24/7 wrote:And AJ was 18 then first time he ever stepped in boxing ring.

So what's your point?

Hopkins started in 88 and had his first world title fight in 93..........

Tyson fought for a world title after 20 months.............

This kid needs to be moved..

Hoppo is a better example, due to his lack of amateur experience. He got 5 years and 20+ fights under his belt, give AJ the same. He's not even had 12 months or 8 fights at the moment.

But Tyson is a rubbish one, total red herring.  What next, Loma? Rigo??

Truss your arguements on this matter make no sense they are full of holes