The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.

[mystiroakey]

"Prior to Monday night, 95% of people on here with a brain,"

I am obviously in the 5% without a brain. When Welbeck plays up front has a half decent scoring ratio. He has been shifted out wide a lot which isn't because of your reason(poor finishing) its because they have 'better' strikers at united(world class ones with RVP and rooney) and welbeck is adaptable and still worthy of playing on the wings due to his skill in nicking the ball and holding the ball up.. If he didn't have that extra level to his game he would have just become a bench warmer striking sub, because it doesnt matter how good you are , its how good you are compared to your team mates, welbeck leaving united was best for all parties.. How the heck is he going to compete with RVP, rooney and now Falcao!!

Welbeck isn't world-class(he has the potential though)- but he is decent and he will score you goals. And as i said previous to even any rumours at Arsenal. Arsenal should buy him and I was shocked they got him so cheap- contrary to many others reasoning's that they paid too much.

Anyway point being I haven't changed my tune on him over one game , I never over or under rated him- The footage and stats just back me up. He is a confidence player up front like many. Give the lad a consistent run out and he will score.

I said the same thing about sturridge 2 years ago. I said he would make an impact at liverpool and was laughed at. That off course was erased from peoples brains. These conversations about welbeck also will be this time next year.

And John it may be a joke pal- But I will raise the bar -if he doesn't score 15 plus goals at arsernal I will eat my hat...(bar injuries)

[mystiroakey]

We know now Welbeck shudn't be played wide or laying behind Rooney, he's more in the mould of a Higuain.

Surely when Walcott is back he won't walk into the team anymore. All he did for England was run the ball into bad areas and look like the Aston Martin in a 30 zone.

Walcott just had seriously bad luck with the timing of his injuries. His best two spells at Arsenal have been his last two and then he got injured during international spells around the time.. So your comparison is unfair. He also has had some very good games for England.

The amount of options we have on those wings or diamond semi wings is decent so no he wont walk back in. But if he comes back playing for arsernal in the same fashion he did during his last two spells he will be given a chance. He has to. He has been England's best performing player during his fit periods in the Pl and possibly in the CL.

and unlike welbeck he can score and assist plenty from the wings. Walcott's end product during the last 2-3 years has improved 10 fold. its just been a case of bad timing for England- everyone thinks back 3-4 years ago.

[Guest]

Lol mysti, your definitely eating your hat. 15 goals

[mystiroakey]

Can't wait to prove you wrong again pal. Arsenal create so many chances. Welbeck will find those areas time and time again..easiest non eating hat bet ever..

[spencerclarke]

I'm with mysti on this one. I think he'll score plenty of goals for Arsenal. 6 games up front last season 6 goals. Goals only dry up when he is out of position. Even then he still does a decent job.

[mystiroakey]

Arsenal/Palace double.

Yeah I am betting with my head over heart this weekend

[Crimey]

I don't think my support for Henderson has anything to do with him being a Liverpool player, he was given the nod over Wilshere at the World Cup and is definitely a more important player for the England team than Wilshere is at the moment. Barkley is not a player who plays deep and would struggle in the diamond formation, he's a number 10. Wilshere I think would definitely be dropped before Henderson is.

Also the description of Wilshere is way off and I have never seen him do what you say he can do, mysti, for England and he rarely does it for Arsenal either. He was actually better as a 19 year old and injuries have made him scared when he does have the ball. He needs to develop his game beyond where it is currently at because at the moment I don't think he's good enough for Arsenal or England. His passing is decent but not good enough in dangerous areas so he would be more suited to a spot where he has more time. Despite the fact that he wants to do it so much, his dribbling is woeful, he gives it away a lot and doesn't have the pace to get past his man and his fear of injuries mean he drops down at the slightest touch. For me, he either develops his game deeper or is dropped. 

Also I totally agree with John that the praise for Welbeck has gone overboard after this game, he had a good game granted but he does have issues that he hasn't sorted that now for two years. His finishing is really poor unless given a lot of time and space and I always feel his running needs to be better, he's fast and strong but too often makes the wrong runs. His passing and crossing is basically non-existent. I don't think United made a mistake selling him and I don't think he's as good as people seem to suggest. He's a mid-table level striker who has somehow managed to stay at the top of the game, for now.

I think comparisons with Sturridge are fair, but Sturridge improved quite quickly where as Welbeck growth has stunted since 2012, he's basically the same player and hasn't developed his skills sufficiently since then for me to be called a top level striker. Partly it's due to lack of opportunity as the main striker, but I do also feel there is an element of laziness in that because he is so physically good, in that he is fast and strong, his technical skills don't have to be at the same level.

[mystiroakey]

Henderson is good. That was a joke based on the recent love in remarks against you for your Liverpool players.

Wilshire i disagree on.

Not sure I understand the welbeck talk. who bashed him before and then overrated him after the game?

I was one of the few that said he is a decent player and a good signing for Arsenal . My opinions haven't changed on him. I expected a decent showing and we got one. He made a couple of brilliant runs with bad end products- but kept working and got one of his shin for being in the right place at the right time and one exceptional finish once his confidence was back  up.

Rooney and sterling's finishing was shocking that night as well though.Many probably expected more from them and less from Wellbeck. however both were instrumental in his goals.

welbeck seems an intelligent positional player- he gets into the right places, his final ball isn't the best but i feel his finishing will come on leaps and bounds playing up front consistently.

Well we shall see wont we. All arsenal need is a 'fox in the box' - there build up is expectational game in game out- they just need that player to find the areas and tap the ball in. Welbeck could be the man.

[Fernando]

England squad for the European Championship 2016 qualifiers against San Marino at Wembley on Thursday 9 October and away to Estonia on Sunday 12 October.
Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)

Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Southampton), Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), John Stones (Everton)

Midfielders: Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Jonjo Shelvey (Swansea City), Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)

Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Welbeck (Arsenal).

[mystiroakey]

Jonjo!!

I suppose he deserves it though.

[NickisBHAFC]

Where is ginger pirlo?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Deserved for Clyne and Gibbs. Cant believe Jonjo is ahead of Noble too, awful.

Shame England have given in to Liverpool over Sturridge though

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Downing actually deserves a place too, but I doubt he'll be seen in an England shirt again. Least Townsend knows he can play as poor as he wants and still make the squad

[Stella]

Is it worth risking further injury to Sturridge given the opposition?

Agree about Noble.

[mystiroakey]

Sturridge wouldn't have started anyway. Not bothered about the lack of his inclusion considering the opposition.. Wellbeck and rooney would have surely been starting even if he was included.

We should be looking at being at least 4-0 up in the first half and then we can take wellbeck and rooney off to save them for the next game.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

How on earth is Townsend in there my word, he scored a good goal a year ago ffs

Glad Clyne is in though deserved he's our best RB imo (Stones is better at CB)

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think you call Sturridge up and the England guys make a decision. Brendan Rodgers shouldn't even have a say

[mystiroakey]

No Brendan shouldn't have a say. But he isn't match fit anyway. And with welbecks form  and the opposition we are facing. What is the point.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

You pick your best squad available and I also think training time together at England is important

[Mat]

Decent squad I think. Thought Berahino should have been in it, particularly as Lambert has looked poor this year, but I suppose the U21's two games are quite important-hence Shaw and Chambers being in that squad rather than the senior one.

Very happy to see Clyne called up, think he's a very good player. Would like to see Stones in at centre back with Cahill. Shelvey's a bit of a strange one, I agree with those who said Noble is more deserving.

Townsend is still getting picked on the back of giving England that momentum boost to qualify us for the World Cup, not saying it's right but that's why he's getting picked. I'm not on the Dyer/Routledge bandwagon though, don't see them as International footballers no matter how well they're playing. Think Walcott will probably replace Townsend in squads when he's fit.

[mystiroakey]

So no matter how well a player plays he can't get into the england team. Could you please explain your reasoning. It lacks logic pal.

You think Townsend is England material but Routledge and dyer are not?

Is that what you are saying.

There are over 100 english players in the English league that could tear shreads though teams like Poland on any given day. Yes Townsend hit a purple patch. It lasted 2 weeks. The end/

[mystiroakey]

Also shelvey is young. Much better to look at someone very similar to noble but actually has a future.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah Nathan Dyer is twice the player Townsend is

[Mat]

So no matter how well a player plays he can't get into the england team. Could you please explain your reasoning. It lacks logic pal.

You think Townsend is England material but Routledge and dyer are not?

Is that what you are saying.

There are over 100 english players in the English league that could tear shreads though teams like Poland on any given day. Yes Townsend hit a purple patch. It lasted 2 weeks. The end/

No, I just wouldn't pick Dyer or Routledge. That's because I don't rate them that highly. Acknowledge they are playing well at the moment, but I don't believe they're International quality. Realise that's a different opinion to a few on here but just what I think. I said I'd pick Noble and Berahino based on your form, but that's because I think they could perform at that level. Don't think Routledge can, he's having a once in a lifetime spell of form, never played this well before. Dyer perhaps I'm being harsh on as he's been consistently good for Swansea since they came-up. But neither of them are young.

Never said I think Townsend's England material either, just said I think that's why he's being picked(the two qualifiers) In fact I even put "Not saying that's right," which I thought made it fairly clear that I don't think he should be in the squad, maybe could have worded it better

[mystiroakey]

Routledge was amazing back at palace and obviously had issues going to Tottenham and being loaned out and had injuries etc etc.(the moses, zaha, redmond route, etc etc) Now he is getting older so there is probally little point giving him a run out- although he was good all last season and this.

But like Noble- I would rather go for the younger versions that could feature in the future.

Dyer does however deserve a run out over townsend IMO.

Townsend was picked on the few weeks before form for Tottenham- He then continued that form on at England level(which isnt a higher standard playing the teams we did) and shone.- then after that he went back to his basic average form.

I dont see any justification(like you) for picking him. If he was picked on form- then he should be dropped on form. He isn't a Rooney, Henderson ,Cahill or sterling that provide the base of our team, that would have to be picked even if they are slightly out of sorts.

[Mat]

I agree. He's got a few years on Dyer which maybe another reason he gets chosen, but he hasn't really done anything to warrant being picked since those games.

Hopefully he won't be in for too much longer, if Walcott comes back and is in form or if someone like a Zaha really begins to shine then they'll be the form player, and also younger than Townsend

[Duty281]

Uh..three points tonight, yes?

More or less than five do we think. I will say a nice 6-0, with Danny Welbeck netting a hat trick, which will lead to another collective orgasm in Friday's papers.

[Lowlandbrit]

Uh..three points tonight, yes?

Theoretically, what's the lowest English league everyone thinks you could select a team from that could beat San Marino?

[Guest]

I'd go at least to Conference North/South.

Ukraine beat this lot 8-0 a few months ago, so I'd expect something in that region. Nothing worse than a one-sided game, I'd imagine the Estonia game at the weekend will be at least reasonably tough for our boys away from home.

[Duty281]

Uh..three points tonight, yes?

Theoretically, what's the lowest English league everyone thinks you could select a team from that could beat San Marino?

I would fancy my local team [Truro City: Southern Premier] to beat San Marino.

After all, we do have Barry Hayles!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

"@ryanbennett_22: In 21s someone gets injured now starts for national team, how that work? Clyne in the squad for what? #bumthebigteams"

Pretty much RyBen

[NickisBHAFC]

I would love it if we go 1-0 down this evening, I would love it

[mystiroakey]

More chance of Brighton falling into the sea...

I wanted to back 10-0 but at 16/1 its a pointless bet.

Gone for the england to win with a 6 handicap at evens.

[mystiroakey]

Uh..three points tonight, yes?

Theoretically, what's the lowest English league everyone thinks you could select a team from that could beat San Marino?

I think we as a forum could make a team that would beat them.. At 37 I would be the manager though. But under my management we could win.

[Duty281]

Can I play on the right wing?

I love a bit of the right-wing!

[mystiroakey]

Yep. You are in.

[mystiroakey]

That goes down as a top ten insane goal keeping moment. He just runs into jag like a rugby player then backs out diving sideways into his feet. If he stays on his line it goes into his hands..

[mystiroakey]

Actually on replay he just runs Intl his own defender.

[mystiroakey]

Now he punches Cahill in the face. That keeper is comedy.

[Fernando]

2-0 - England - Shrek Pen

[Guest]

So bad that first half. Comical watching Roy fist pump at that Rooney goal & having such a serious face on. Everything about this game is embarrassing. Wilshere doing nothing.........again.

[Duty281]

Spain are losing to Slovakia. #couldbeworse

[Fernando]

Spain are losing to Slovakia. #couldbeworse

Have you seen the goal? It's hilarious Slovakia took a fk 25 yards out and smashed it straight at Casillas and he dived out the way

[Fernando]

3-0 - Danny Welbeck.

[mystiroakey]

So bad that first half. Comical watching Roy fist pump at that Rooney goal & having such a serious face on. Everything about this game is embarrassing. Wilshere doing nothing.........again.

Yawwwwnnn




Who cares. Anyway better second half. So far.

[mystiroakey]

Townsend plays for England better than at spurs. I am not just basing that on the goal either. He has improved the team the moment he came on. Strange player. Looks shocking at Tottenham a lot of the time.

[Hammersmith harrier]

"@ryanbennett_22: In 21s someone gets injured now starts for national team, how that work? Clyne in the squad for what? #bumthebigteams"

Pretty much RyBen

He's got a very good point, how is Chambers in the team ahead of Clyne?

[GSC]

Townsend is a shocking player.

This is a pointless game

[mystiroakey]

The other games in the group won't be much more important....

All pointless. They might as well give us our spot in the euros now and be done with it.

Switzerland getting beat....

[Duty281]

The main question from this game, I feel, is:

Why the bloody hell did 55,000 people pay an extortionate sum to watch a really dull football game in awful conditions? Add that awful brass band in, and the time of day, plus the transport costs.

Why?!

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