The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.

[The Special Juan]

I think Sterling's entitled to feel tired (whether he is or not is a different debate). He's, what, 18/19? Nowhere near his physical peak and plays 90 mins pretty much every week, plus he puts in a shift too AND played a whole season last year... I'd say he's entitled to feel a bit leggy. That's where they went wrong with Owen - played far too much from an early age which lead to constant injuries.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Owen was burnt out by 26.
Rooney is nowhere near what his talent promised at 18

Sterling's allowed to be tired

[Guest]

Rooney is bang awful, it's come to the point, like Lampard did for England, whereby he is only now effective from set pieces (free kicks/pens) but because the rest of the team isn't really functioning that well, Rooneys goals mask over his dire play & the media just cream over his match winning impact. Agree he's shocking now but he's never, ever being dropped now by Roy

[Stella]

Rooney is bang awful, it's come to the point, like Lampard did for England, whereby he is only now effective from set pieces (free kicks/pens) but because the rest of the team isn't really functioning that well, Rooneys goals mask over his dire play & the media just cream over his match winning impact. Agree he's shocking now but he's never, ever being dropped now by Roy

Were Welbeck and Lallana any better? no!

[super_realist]

Bit harsh singling out Rooney, Wellbeck, Lallana or any England player from the current crop considering there haven't really been any who have distinguished themselves in the last dozen or so years.

[mystiroakey]

Ashley Cole, John Terry and Rio were all first rate- we have lost them all- but all the talent now seems to be coming in the attacking midfield area.

[mystiroakey]

Roy has made the point that England shouldn't carry the burden for resting Sterling . So he is implying that Rodgers needs to as well.

Posters do make a good point that at 19 you are not fully developed physically and young English talents at that age can suffer later on as a result through injuries.

[super_realist]

Roy has made the point that England shouldn't carry the burden for resting Sterling . So he is implying that Rodgers needs to as well.

Posters do make a good point that at 19 you are not fully developed physically and young English talents at that age can suffer later on as a result through injuries.

Gerrard and Andy Murray were sickly weaklings as teenagers, no surprise Sterling is.

[Stella]

Roy has made the point that England shouldn't carry the burden for resting Sterling . So he is implying that Rodgers needs to as well.

Posters do make a good point that at 19 you are not fully developed physically and young English talents at that age can suffer later on as a result through injuries.

Gerrard and Andy Murray were sickly weaklings as teenagers, no surprise Sterling is.

Sterling is apparently as strong as a bull.

[mystiroakey]

He is very strong for his slight built- you can see that when he plays- Its rare for him to get brushed of the ball. But he is growing- so complications can occur by over playing him.

If I remember correctly Gerrard had issues with his lower back or something- But Liverpool handled him really well at the growing stage and he got a full career.

[compelling and rich]

i agree about rooney being one of the worse players on the pitch, yes wellbeck and lallana didnt do anything but they didnt waste or give the ball away half as much either, the team has wrongly been built around rooney where everything goes through him.

if andy cole had missed the chances rooney had he would have been crucified. seems we can never get over the golden boys of english football who will play no matter how poorly they play.

media all creaming there pants about his scoring record, if peter crouch had been given as many chances and caps for england he would already be ahead of charltons record. rooneys purely up there through longevity and the high number of qualifiers we play against crap teams.

[Stella]

i agree about rooney being one of the worse players on the pitch, yes wellbeck and lallana didnt do anything but they didnt waste or give the ball away half as much either, the team has wrongly been built around rooney where everything goes through him.

if andy cole had missed the chances rooney had he would have been crucified. seems we can never get over the golden boys of english football who will play no matter how poorly they play.

media all creaming there pants about his scoring record, if peter crouch had been given as many chances and caps for england he would already be ahead of charltons record. rooneys purely up there through longevity and the high number of qualifiers we play against crap teams.

At least Rooney was getting into the positions to make an impact. He wasn't at his best, but there are bigger concerns than Rooney, unless of course you're just not keen on the bloke.

[compelling and rich]

oh im not keen on the bloke im sure that comes across but would hear no complaints from me if he's playing well as im a united fan, was quiet about him start of last season but then he went very poor again second half of the season. again moyes built our team all around him and we suffered (not the only reason of course) he simply isnt as good as people make out and sure isnt good enough for the wages were paying him

[Guest]

England would struggle to beat the England reserves on last night's showing. Utter garbage with the front men looking like they'd only just met in the tunnel before kick-off.

Even the return of Sturridge won't sort it out as there's no f****g service to the front men.

There's still no leader out there on the field and countless shots of Lallana et al clapping their hands shouting "Come on lads" isn't going to hide over the fact that we don't have anyone to take the game by the scruff of the neck and OWN the pitch.

Still, a p!ss easy qualifying group should be justification enough for the F.A to introduce another new kit retailing at just under £150....

[super_realist]

England would struggle to beat the England reserves on last night's showing. Utter garbage with the front men looking like they'd only just met in the tunnel before kick-off.

Even the return of Sturridge won't sort it out as there's no f****g service to the front men.

There's still no leader out there on the field and countless shots of Lallana et al clapping their hands shouting "Come on lads" isn't going to hide over the fact that we don't have anyone to take the game by the scruff of the neck and OWN the pitch.

Still, a p!ss easy qualifying group should be justification enough for the F.A to introduce another new kit retailing at just under £150....

Adults shouldn't wear replica kits anyway.

[Stella]

England would struggle to beat the England reserves on last night's showing. Utter garbage with the front men looking like they'd only just met in the tunnel before kick-off.

Even the return of Sturridge won't sort it out as there's no f****g service to the front men.

There's still no leader out there on the field and countless shots of Lallana et al clapping their hands shouting "Come on lads" isn't going to hide over the fact that we don't have anyone to take the game by the scruff of the neck and OWN the pitch.

Still, a p!ss easy qualifying group should be justification enough for the F.A to introduce another new kit retailing at just under £150....

Adults shouldn't wear replica kits anyway.

Women adults, surely?

[compelling and rich]

England would struggle to beat the England reserves on last night's showing. Utter garbage with the front men looking like they'd only just met in the tunnel before kick-off.

Even the return of Sturridge won't sort it out as there's no f****g service to the front men.

There's still no leader out there on the field and countless shots of Lallana et al clapping their hands shouting "Come on lads" isn't going to hide over the fact that we don't have anyone to take the game by the scruff of the neck and OWN the pitch.

Still, a p!ss easy qualifying group should be justification enough for the F.A to introduce another new kit retailing at just under £150....

Adults shouldn't wear replica kits anyway.

Women adults, surely?

shirt only, no other clothing allowed

full kit w$*kers is a strict no no

[mystiroakey]

SR hates shirts as well/ i do wear a palace scarf during the match- Then I can just hide it on the way home/back to the car on the rare occasion I watch them

[Guest]

England would struggle to beat the England reserves on last night's showing. Utter garbage with the front men looking like they'd only just met in the tunnel before kick-off.

Even the return of Sturridge won't sort it out as there's no f****g service to the front men.

There's still no leader out there on the field and countless shots of Lallana et al clapping their hands shouting "Come on lads" isn't going to hide over the fact that we don't have anyone to take the game by the scruff of the neck and OWN the pitch.

Still, a p!ss easy qualifying group should be justification enough for the F.A to introduce another new kit retailing at just under £150....

Adults shouldn't wear replica kits anyway.

Women adults, surely?

shirt only, no other clothing allowed

full kit w$*kers is a strict no no

I'd wager you'd look more of a w*nker wearing just a football shirt and no underpants than the 56 year old bloke in full kit

[mystiroakey]

[super_realist]

SR hates shirts as well/ i do wear a palace scarf during the match- Then I can just hide it on the way home/back to the car on the rare occasion I watch them

Well you wouldn't go to Wimbledon in Tennis whites, The Olympics in a Singlet/Shorts combo, The National in Silks, jodphurs and a helmet or the F1 in a race suit so I'm not sure where this idea of wearing a football shirt comes from.

Ghastly pieces of clothing.

[mystiroakey]

Its all tribal stuff- Not my bag at all. But My team is very chilled out- but I do respect the hardcore lot- they arnt fighters just singers and loud 90 minute ones- And they are like a 12th man...

[dyrewolfe]

England would struggle to beat the England reserves on last night's showing. Utter garbage with the front men looking like they'd only just met in the tunnel before kick-off.

Even the return of Sturridge won't sort it out as there's no f****g service to the front men.

There's still no leader out there on the field and countless shots of Lallana et al clapping their hands shouting "Come on lads" isn't going to hide over the fact that we don't have anyone to take the game by the scruff of the neck and OWN the pitch.

Still, a p!ss easy qualifying group should be justification enough for the F.A to introduce another new kit retailing at just under £150....

Yep - it was a seriously underwhelming performance. When you have to rely on a Rooney freekick to beat 10-man Estonia, realisation dawns (well, hits you like a pallet of bricks really) that England aren't going to do much better at Euro 2016 than they did in Brazil.

We're fine passing it around in midfield and between defence and midfield, but lack any sort of creativity and real danger in the opposition 18-yard box. So many misplaced passes and crosses, or simply trying to play through the opposition defence, instead of playing around and behind them. Even the good crosses rarely found a red shirt due to poorly timed runs.

Nevermind, maybe we'll have a half-decent team in time for the 2018 World Cup?

[mystiroakey]

It wasn't that bad- Rooney did get great service from Wilshire for the second game on the spin. and we had a few decent crosses from the wings that our attackers just missed..

I would put it down to finishing over creativity. It is also very tough to break down a team that defends like that- it wasn't even like 2 banks of 4- it was like 10 players crowed in the pen box.

[dyrewolfe]

SR hates shirts as well/ i do wear a palace scarf during the match- Then I can just hide it on the way home/back to the car on the rare occasion I watch them

Well you wouldn't go to Wimbledon in Tennis whites, The Olympics in a Singlet/Shorts combo,  The National in Silks, jodphurs and a helmet or the F1 in a race suit so I'm not sure where this idea of wearing a football shirt comes from.

Ghastly pieces of clothing.

Most of the time I'd agree with you, but there have been some nice football kits over the years.

My team's (Middlesbrough) current home strip is actually quite striking and for the first time in many years I bought a shirt.

As mysti said, football is a tribal thing, as far as fans are concerned and it all just adds to the colour of the occasion. Our away fans are fantastic too...sometimes they out-sing the home fans. Not aggressive either - just a bit boisterous.

[dyrewolfe]

It wasn't that bad- Rooney did get great service from Wilshire for the second game on the spin. and we had a few decent crosses from the wings that our attackers just missed..

I would put it down to finishing over creativity. It is also very tough to break down a team that defends like that- it wasn't even like 2 banks of 4- it was like 10 players crowed in the pen box.

Sounds like we were watching different games, 'cause thats not what I remember. Granted Estonia were well-organised defensively, but from waht I saw we just kept trying to play through them, leading to hurried, inaccurate passes and kept giving possession away cheaply.

Plus, if England are to harbour any hopes of winning silverware again, they need to find ways to break down defensive teams like that. If we really do aspire to be a great footballing nation again, we need to be beating teams like Estonia a lot more convincingly.

Rooney did get some decent service and probably should have scored a hat-trick...which sadly is more evidence that individually, as well as collectively, our players weren't on their game last night.

Then again, winning stuff is about peaking at the right time. Perhaps they'll pick up once they arrive in Paris (assuming, as looks likely, that we win our group)?

[mystiroakey]

yes but if Rooney had scored the hatrick - we wouldn't be having this discussion and if he had scored one earlier- they may have played a bit more - allowing space.

I have made the point earlier- As a palace fan- we were like estonia a lot last season(but with much better wingers that can counter teams  and actually nick a goal).

We made it so hard for teams like city and chelsea last season. Its not easy. It really isnt- But if the better team scores early- it becomes a lot easier to then tear them apart.

Switzerland luckily(thankfully) bought into the hype they were on our level or better. That gave us a much better opportunity to win the game.

[compelling and rich]

if rooney had played like that at a tournament he would have cost us the game....... wait he has played like that at most tournaments you say??

[Hammersmith harrier]

He played no worse than any body else C and R, the expectation levels are still unrealistically high for Rooney and he gets slated because of it. It's about time people realised he's a good play with the ability to produce a moment of magic but will rarely set the world alight for England, the only time he's ever been brilliant consistently for United is when a certain Paul Scholes was dictating behind him.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Its always about Wayne somehow

[compelling and rich]

He played no worse than any body else C and R, the expectation levels are still unrealistically high for Rooney and he gets slated because of it. It's about time people realised he's a good play with the ability to produce a moment of magic but will rarely set the world alight for England, the only time he's ever been brilliant consistently for United is when a certain Paul Scholes was dictating behind him.

the problem being that the whole team is built around him and he's become undroppable for no apparent reason

i agree with you, he ain't as good as people make out or of whats expected of him. thats why i have a issue with us paying him 300k plus a week

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

He played no worse than any body else C and R, the expectation levels are still unrealistically high for Rooney and he gets slated because of it. It's about time people realised he's a good play with the ability to produce a moment of magic but will rarely set the world alight for England.

Nail on the head HH.

Its not Rooney's fault utd pay him ridiculous amounts a week, they could've you know not paid him

[compelling and rich]

He played no worse than any body else C and R, the expectation levels are still unrealistically high for Rooney and he gets slated because of it. It's about time people realised he's a good play with the ability to produce a moment of magic but will rarely set the world alight for England.

Nail on the head HH.

Its not Rooney's fault utd pay him ridiculous amounts a week, they could've you know not paid him

so as a fan im just supposed to be happy watching his substandard performances, because its not his fault he gets paid a lot? whether its in the united or england shirt

[Dolphin Ziggler]

England built around him my balls. Clutching

[compelling and rich]

captain, main focal attacking point, takes free kicks and penalties and is undroppable but yeah the england team isn't geared to rooney

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Our main focal attacking point is our pace with sterling, Welbeck, sturridge? Did I imagine the Swiss game?

[compelling and rich]

those three have only barely played together, hardly our main attacking point over a player who plays every game no matter what

[compelling and rich]

main attacking point is probably worded wrongly but when picking attacking players who do you think is the first name roy picks?

[Duty281]

Wayne Rooney is undroppable. Wayne Rooney gets the most creative and, arguably, the most pivotal attacking role in the side.

Our attack is built around him, I am sorry to say.

That needs to change.

[mystiroakey]

he isnt the focal point but his link up with wilshire was bang on. his finishing boots just wasnt on in those two games. It happens to all strikers. He would normally bag more.

The focal point of this team at the moment is about the diamond.. it certainly isnt revolving around rooney at all

[compelling and rich]

Wayne Rooney is undroppable. Wayne Rooney gets the most creative and, arguably, the most pivotal attacking role in the side.

Our attack is built around him, I am sorry to say.

That needs to change.

well it had to happen sooner or later but i finally agree with duty on something about england!!

wait........ does this mean im wrong

[Duty281]

Ditch the diamond should be the refrain from the English media.

We will be beaten soundly playing that formation against the likes of France, Germany or Italy; and chasing the ball for ninety minutes.

A 4-2-3-1 gives England greater protection to the defence, better chance of ball retention, and a fluidity in attack.

[Duty281]

Wayne Rooney is undroppable. Wayne Rooney gets the most creative and, arguably, the most pivotal attacking role in the side.

Our attack is built around him, I am sorry to say.

That needs to change.

well it had to happen sooner or later but i finally agree with duty on something about england!!

wait........ does this mean im wrong

We will not be winning Euro 2016, either - you agree with me on that, yes?!

[compelling and rich]

Wayne Rooney is undroppable. Wayne Rooney gets the most creative and, arguably, the most pivotal attacking role in the side.

Our attack is built around him, I am sorry to say.

That needs to change.

well it had to happen sooner or later but i finally agree with duty on something about england!!

wait........ does this mean im wrong

We will not be winning Euro 2016, either - you agree with me on that, yes?!

ha ha yes i do but i like usual will say we wont get out of the groups while you'll usually say we'll get to the semis

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Very different argument between first on team sheet and team built around. I would say Cahill and Hart are more secure in their places due to less competition, but Rooney would go on straight after them. Having responsibility of freekicks and pens isnt being built around someone. Especially if they score a freekick and a pen in recent games. Kinda shows he is correctly picked. Thats like saying Everton are built around Baines.

He is the main focal point in attack, and also not. Thats down to him not the boss, Rooney plays in a way that means he goes into a role where people play in and around him a lot.

Still think hes our best player, although Sterling will be in a year.

[Duty281]

Wayne Rooney is undroppable. Wayne Rooney gets the most creative and, arguably, the most pivotal attacking role in the side.

Our attack is built around him, I am sorry to say.

That needs to change.

well it had to happen sooner or later but i finally agree with duty on something about england!!

wait........ does this mean im wrong

We will not be winning Euro 2016, either - you agree with me on that, yes?!

ha ha yes i do but i like usual will say we wont get out of the groups while you'll usually say we'll get to the semis

You know, one day a slice of fortune will go England's way at a major tournament. One day, a foreigner will be sent off for bugger all against an English side. One day, England will win a penalty shootout. One day, England will play to their potential.

One day, the sun will shine on the Three Lions.

Maybe in Paris, in a corner of a foreign field, a happy few led by a man who can keep his head when all about him are losing theirs can reach some great expectations, whilst throwing off a bleak house that envelopes us.

Perhaps one short hour can see happiness from utter desolation grow?

One day...

[spencerclarke]

Having seen so many so called big nations slip up so far in this campaign maybe we should just be greatful we have maximum points on the board and haven't looked like dropping any.

[mystiroakey]

Yep. Holland, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, portugal, russia and Greece..

All the seeds have dropped bar Italy .



And england the only non seed to not drop..

Or were we the seed and not Switzerland. Not sure.

[Mat]

Wasn't the greatest of performances, but still Estonia never really threatened. First half was much better than the second.

It was a shame Stones picked up that injury for Everton, I think he'd have got the nod at centre half had he been fit, particularly as he's been out-playing Jagielka at club level in my opinion. Chambers is another option at centre half, his future certainly lies there rather than at right back.

Unless someone comes through, right back is looking a bit of a problematic position to fill. I rate Clyne but Roy not picking him in games against San Marino and Estonia would suggest he isn't all that high up the pecking order. If, when fit, Flanagan gets game time at Liverpool in that position, he could be a potential option? Cupboard looks pretty bare otherwise.

Have to say, I'm still not sure on Baines at this level either. He's a good player, but his quality in the final third seems to deteriorate massively when playing for England compared to Everton and he does lack a yard of pace. Personally I'd be looking at putting Shaw in there as soon as possible, and giving him two years of easing in to International football before the Euro's.

Defensively we should be looking at blooding pretty much an entire new backline, with Hart and Cahill the two constant. Then play Stones with Cahill, Shaw at left back and someone at Right Back. Then you have the likes of Chambers, Jones and Smalling in reserve at centre back and Gibbs/Baines/Bertrand at left back

[mystiroakey]

Liam Moore could solve our right back issue soon.good talent.

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