The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Twas quite a good game for a friendly actually

[Steffan]

90 minutes of my life I will never get back. Cheers Scotland

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Rooney. Quality. England dropping Wayne? HAHAHAHAHA

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Rooney. Quality. England dropping Wayne? HAHAHAHAHA

You don't play for Utd for over a decade without being quite handy, he's not what he promised to be when a youngster but he's still the best player we got at the moment.

[Steffan]

Rooney. Quality. England dropping Wayne? HAHAHAHAHA

Rooney was the scapegoat for the mighty world beaters England not winning the world cup this year

I look forward now to seeing who the next figure of blame will be in the England team

[Hammersmith harrier]

Rooney. Quality. England dropping Wayne? HAHAHAHAHA

You don't play for Utd for over a decade without being quite handy, he's not what he promised to be when a youngster but he's still the best player we got at the moment.

It's infuriating that back in 2004 and 2005 he was a better player than Ronaldo.

[mystiroakey]

Yes but ronaldo isn't normal. He is not just world class he is century class....

[Stella]

Rooney's only 29, and COULD be entering his prime years. Let's hope so.

[Stella]

Olly

Having seen the Scotland goal, I agree with you, Forster could have done better.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Olly

Having seen the Scotland goal, I agree with you, Forster could have done better.

I do like Forster but I don't think he's as good as Hart yet. Could be, but not yet for me.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

"@ed_aarons: The FA considering breaking off its relationship with the England supporters' band after anti-IRA chants from visiting fans at Celtic Park"

Please do FA, for the love of god do it

[Duty281]

Pathetic political correctness. To the tune of "Give me Oil in my lamp" (we all sang that at primary school!):

Keep St. George in my heart, keep me English!
Keep St. George in my heart, I pray.
Keep St. George in my heart, keep me English!
Keep me English till my dying day.

No surrender,
No surrender,
No surrender to the I.R.A.!
Scum!

I agree wholeheartedly, near-enough, with a comment posted on the Telegraph by a user called "Kreolve":

I get the impression that all the journalists outraged over the IRA chant (which is sung at every game more or less, not saying I agree with it) are disappointed England actually won.
They spent the entire build up talking about how intimidating and amazing the atmosphere is and how improved Scotland are. Turns out, the atmosphere was sh!t, all you could hear was the England support, and Scotland may be improved, but England are still superior.
Want to know what the best atmosphere in Europe is? Not Celtic Park, but Turkey.

[Mike Selig]

Back to the football...

apart from mysti am I the only one beginning to really like Wilshere in that deep-lying play-maker role? The guy is comfortable on the ball, and can certainly spot and pick a pass.

For someone who will next year almost certainly become England's leading goal-scorer of all time, Rooney gets an astonishing amount of stick.

Felt a bit sorry for Downing. I agree he earned his chance in that position, but looked a bit overwhelmed.

[Stella]

There's a few who like Wilshere, Mike, including me. Despite what Jamie Carragher said last night, I still don't think he had that good a game against Slovenia. Decent second half, but not great in the first.

[LivinginItaly]

I think the big question for Roy hodgson is how he can motivate the players to play with the same level of intensity and fire in tournament games. For the first time for a long time they seemed to be really up for it and consequently played without fear showing the levels of passion and intensity normally reserved for club games.

[mystiroakey]

I was hoping Craig would come and offer his insight..

Maybe he has on the tartan army message board . and if that is you Craig(exact same username). I don't agree. The gulf in class was too significant and proven.

For Scotland to beat England you should have set up a certain way. Slovenia did that first half on Saturday. You have to do a Pulis when you have lesser players.

Scotland like Switzerland bought into a delusion that they are a better footballing team than England and that you can out pass and move us. If you do that we knick the ball of you time and time again. We chill out for periods safe in the knowledge we can be patient and you won't hurt us with possession. It was an exceptionally easy game for us. Even more than Slovenia tbh. Because they made it very hard work first half by putting men behind the ball. We had to really up the intensity levels after our own goal. But you can't do that all game..

Off course that poster may not be you .. But those are my thoughts on the game. Yes Scotland can beat England. But you can't beat England trying to play football against us.. Don't fool yourself your players are on our level or that Scotland play similar or better football(yep I heard that before the game from plenty of Scots)
http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=2389#entry56893

[CaledonianCraig]

I am here mysti.

My thoughts are from what I have seen only in past year or so. And that was that too many of our players had a bad game. Brown, a lynchpin in our midfield had a stinker, the defence had to hold hands up as well and I struggle to think of a Scot who had what I'd term a good game by their standards. I cannot judge how well England player compared to recent times as I don't follow them so they may have been above average for them where it was the opposite for us.

A shame really as we never did ourselves justice and that is hard to take. Still it was a 'meaningless friendly' after all but why are England supporters so obnoxious and downright nasty? Any need for antagonistic songs? I know of no other set of supporters who do this. Anyway no complaints about the result. Our main aim was three points V Ireland. Mission accomplished.

[Guest]

Scotland aren't on our level, nor are Slovenia, Estonia, Lithuania or any of the other embarrassing nobody's we will be facing. What is it, six wins in a row or something now for England, I wonder why.

You can start creaming over Wilshere, but I have serious doubts about him against the top teams. When he gives the ball away vs these woeful sides, he never gets punished. Do that vs top teams & he will be the reason you lose games. It's not happening at the minute because of the sides we are playing, but it will come. Someone also stated Clyne looks like the answer, I wouldn't get your hopes up, Russell was making him look average in those closing minutes. As for Rooney, it's simple. Turns up against the minnows & goes missing at the major tournaments. He's simply going to beat Bobby Charlton through notching taps ins vs a variety of minnows. Great work.

[Stella]

Brown had a stinker cos he's an average player, who likes to bully lesser players, playing for St Mirren.

In all, I thought it was a good competitive game. Scotland were poor, but showed spirit in the second half.

[mystiroakey]

So that was you Craig


I am a palace fan- and i know how to beat teams that are better than us due to what Pulis did for us last season. But you have to accept it and you have to work on that system a lot for it to work.

A lesser  team cannot out Arsenal Arsenal. And that was basically how England played last night but better than there recent club form. Scotland played like a team that wants to compete but hasn't got the minerals, but could have given us a really tough game if they set up tactically to do so( some call that anti football - but it is what it is)

[CaledonianCraig]

Brown had a stinker cos he's an average player, who likes to bully lesser players, playing for St Mirren.

In all, I thought it was a good competitive game. Scotland were poor, but showed spirit in the second half.

Sorry that is tosh. Has Champions League experience, bossed midfield in matches against midfield of sides the calibre of Croatia and Germany and has often been linked with moves to the EPL if he so wished. By his usual standards he had a stinker last night and his usual standards are way higher than that.

[Guest]

Liamb, don't think anyone is getting carried away by beating Scotland. I still fully expect when we play a top team, that our weaknesses will be exposed, including Jagielka, full backs & possibly Wilshere defensively. It was a decent nights work for England, but nothing was learned. As for Rooney notching goals vs minnows, you probably have a point.

[mystiroakey]

John,

I agree with your comments on Jag- But its time to cut wilshire some slack- he cant do much more. And this form again is coinciding with a run without Injury. So fingers crossed. I also think him playing deeper will also give him more chance of remaining injury free. Wenger I hope you are watching.

Yes maybe we should think about a different system and play a man alongside Wilshire to protect the back 4- but against lesser teams we just want to score goals and protection isnt needed.

[CaledonianCraig]

So that was you Craig


I am a palace fan- and i know how to beat teams that are better than us due to what Pulis did for us last season. But you have to accept it and you have to work on that system a lot for it to work.

A lesser  team cannot out Arsenal Arsenal. And that was basically how England played last night but better than there recent club form. Scotland played like a team that wants to compete but hasn't got the minerals, but could have given us a really tough game if they set up tactically to do so( some call that anti football - but it is what it is)

Stick a Palace side up against Arsenal and Palace under perform and they lose and that is a similar case here. If you wish to kid yourself that was our best last night then you are way off the mark. You just need to look at our recent record of one defeat in competitive matches in about a year and a half. Of course we have work to do in areas such as up front as back-up to Fletcher and quit making schoolboyish errors in defence - that undoes a lot of good work and cost us last night and in Germany if memory serves.

Our eyes are on bigger things as in qualifying for the Euros and we are right in the mix for that and I'd take that over a win in 'a meaningless friendly' any day. And boy did Rooney look excited doing a cartwheel for scoring in a 'meaningless friendly'. I wonder if he has ever done that before?

[CaledonianCraig]

Liamb, don't think anyone is getting carried away by beating Scotland. I still fully expect when we play a top team, that our weaknesses will be exposed, including Jagielka, full backs & possibly Wilshere defensively. It was a decent nights work for England, but nothing was learned. As for Rooney notching goals vs minnows, you probably have a point.

Well your weaknesses were exposed once by an out of form Scotlan side. Undone by a debutant (Russell) and Robertson (a relatively inexperienced player) carving you up to score. England need to look at that as an area to improve.

[mystiroakey]

So that was you Craig


I am a palace fan- and i know how to beat teams that are better than us due to what Pulis did for us last season. But you have to accept it and you have to work on that system a lot for it to work.

A lesser  team cannot out Arsenal Arsenal. And that was basically how England played last night but better than there recent club form. Scotland played like a team that wants to compete but hasn't got the minerals, but could have given us a really tough game if they set up tactically to do so( some call that anti football - but it is what it is)

Stick a Palace side up against Arsenal and Palace under perform and they lose and that is a similar case here. If you wish to kid yourself that was our best last night then you are way off the mark. You just need to look at our recent record of one defeat in competitive matches in about a year and a half. Of course we have work to do in areas such as up front as back-up to Fletcher and quit making schoolboyish errors in defence - that undoes a lot of good work and cost us last night and in Germany if memory serves.

Our eyes are on bigger things as in qualifying for the Euros and we are right in the mix for that and I'd take that over a win in 'a meaningless friendly' any day. And boy did Rooney look excited doing a cartwheel for scoring in a 'meaningless friendly'. I wonder if he has ever done that before?

No craig i am not saying that was you at your best. I am saying your manager and fans were delusional. You should have set up a certain way to have given yourself a better chance at beating us or getting a draw- You will have to do that against Germany. You may get away with it against Poland and Ireland.

But as we all said before the game it was only a friendly- so do not worry about it. In defeat Strachan may have learnt exactly what i have said and it was a free lesson..

[Stella]

Brown had a stinker cos he's an average player, who likes to bully lesser players, playing for St Mirren.

In all, I thought it was a good competitive game. Scotland were poor, but showed spirit in the second half.

Sorry that is tosh. Has Champions League experience, bossed midfield in matches against midfield of sides the calibre of Croatia and Germany and has often been linked with moves to the EPL if he so wished. By his usual standards he had a stinker last night and his usual standards are way higher than that.

I've never seen the bloke play well against good opposition. He's average, but thinks he's Roy Keane, and came unstuck last night. Not only did he have a stinker, he looked like a little boy playing against men.

[CaledonianCraig]

So that was you Craig


I am a palace fan- and i know how to beat teams that are better than us due to what Pulis did for us last season. But you have to accept it and you have to work on that system a lot for it to work.

A lesser  team cannot out Arsenal Arsenal. And that was basically how England played last night but better than there recent club form. Scotland played like a team that wants to compete but hasn't got the minerals, but could have given us a really tough game if they set up tactically to do so( some call that anti football - but it is what it is)

Stick a Palace side up against Arsenal and Palace under perform and they lose and that is a similar case here. If you wish to kid yourself that was our best last night then you are way off the mark. You just need to look at our recent record of one defeat in competitive matches in about a year and a half. Of course we have work to do in areas such as up front as back-up to Fletcher and quit making schoolboyish errors in defence - that undoes a lot of good work and cost us last night and in Germany if memory serves.

Our eyes are on bigger things as in qualifying for the Euros and we are right in the mix for that and I'd take that over a win in 'a meaningless friendly' any day. And boy did Rooney look excited doing a cartwheel for scoring in a 'meaningless friendly'. I wonder if he has ever done that before?

No craig i am not saying that was you at your best. I am saying your manager and fans were delusional. You should have set up a certain way to have given yourself a better chance at beating us or getting a draw- You will have to do that against Germany. You may get away with it against Poland and Ireland.

But as we all said before the game it was only a friendly- so do not worry about it. In defeat Strachan may have learnt exactly what i have said and it was a free lesson..

No it wasn't delusion at all. There were errors and we paid for it. Also believe sentiment got the better of Wee Gordon's selection. He said pre-match he felt he couldn't make changes as it would be unfair to drop players that had done so well for us in the knowledge they were desperate to play. I would have preferred fresher legs and more pace such as Russell and May as a few of our players looked spent too early.

It is the schoolboy errors we must eradicate though.

[mystiroakey]

So you still believe you can out football England?

[CaledonianCraig]

Brown had a stinker cos he's an average player, who likes to bully lesser players, playing for St Mirren.

In all, I thought it was a good competitive game. Scotland were poor, but showed spirit in the second half.

Sorry that is tosh. Has Champions League experience, bossed midfield in matches against midfield of sides the calibre of Croatia and Germany and has often been linked with moves to the EPL if he so wished. By his usual standards he had a stinker last night and his usual standards are way higher than that.

I've never seen the bloke play well against good opposition. He's average, but thinks he's Roy Keane, and came unstuck last night. Not only did he have a stinker, he looked like a little boy playing against men.

I can see why you say that as you are not party to all of our =games in the last year or so and are going by watching one game on Sky TV when he had a stinker.

[CaledonianCraig]

So you still believe you can out football England?

Of course. Not when we play so crap of course but that is another matter.

[dummy_half]

Decent to good performance from England - certainly had more intensity and better movement off the ball than has been the case in the games since the last WC qualifiers.

Clyne shows the value of playing a specialist right back rather than a CB out there, and unlike the other RB options(Walker, Johnson) looks like he understands the need to both defend and provide support in attack. Shaw did OK on the other side.

I thought Wilshere looked very comfortable in the middle of a midfield 3, knowing that if he wanted to step out there would be someone (Milner) to cover his space. \excellent pass for the Ox's goal, and prompted several other attacks. Nice to have an England player in our own half who is capable of doing more than passing the way he is facing.

As others have said, Rooney is in good form for England. Maybe he hasn't ever become quite the player we hoped he would become after 2004, but he's still a decent international class player.

The one note of caution though is 'it was only Scotland'... Not really meant as a disparagement, but if there are any teams that England should be capable of beating it is the other Home Nations - they play a similar style to us (one our players are familiar with playing against), and we simply have more consistently high quality players. For all we whinge, England on paper would be comfortably an upper half of the Premiership side, Wales (if they could pick their best XI) mid table, Scotland relegation battlers or high level Championship.

Our problems are greater against teams that are more technically gifted.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I'm with Mike, mysti and it appears Stella on Wilshire. I commented after the San Marino game that the deeper role suits him quite well as it gives him more time on the ball to pick out that killer pass which he's more than capable of doing. I know it was only San Marino but he should have had three assists in that second half IIRC (Rooney, Wellbeck and Ox failing to convert when put clean through). Delighted he's finally made one stick yesterday.

I do have concerns about his defensive qualities in that position, but as a deep-lying playmaker I like the option. I think it suits him more than playing higher up where he tries to hard to take on the opposition himself, which isn't his best asset.

Liam points out that him losing the ball in that position will cost us against better teams, and maybe it will. But didn't he also have the highest pass-completion rate against Slovenia? Suggests he doesn't lose the ball all that often to me.

The problem with England's qualifying campaign has and always will be that players won't have the chance to prove themselves against better teams. Guys like Clyne, Wilshire in the DM role, Wellbeck up front, Gibbs, etc. can look great against average and poor sides, but we won't know how good they are against the top sides until we try it. At the moment, they're doing all they can against these lesser teams and have earned the chance to prove it against the better ones...

[Stella]

I keep hearing it's only Scotland, but we rarely beat them this easy, if ever.

[mystiroakey]

So you still believe you can out football England?

Of course. Not when we play so crap of course but that is another matter.

as i said delusional.

no disrespect mate- you are a good poster and a passionate fan. But i cant lie. The gulf in class is significant. Most 'lesser' teams (on paper) that play against us make it very hard for us by sticking 10 men behind the ball.

[CaledonianCraig]

I don't think this match helps England though. It does wonders for their supporters but the team? It could quite easily inflate that ego a bit more and leave them believe they are better than they are. A comfortable win and presuming they played well may tell them more than they think. This was a sub-par Scotland performance and one that you won't get against a top international side so the team need to carry on working and not sit on their laurels.

[mystiroakey]

We still find it hard to penetrate teams that stick men behind the ball and we are fully aware that we haven't played a top side.(during the last WC qualifying we had way to many draws against much lesser teams).

I also think if we didn't score an own goal against slovenia it could have ended up 0-0. Our own goal was the worst thing that could have happened to Slovenia!

Many assumed that Switzerland were a top side. They are not on paper and again that was  proved, but we didn't get over exited about beating them- as we shouldn't- when the dust settled we looked at it and realised- This isn't a team we should be losing to(they have one player that bench warms at Bayern and no one else in a top side) - but are we as good as Spain,Germany, Argentina or France- the answer is still no - I think we would give brazil and holland a very good run for there money though- but there player pools have regressed.



We just need to keep going. No one expects us to win the Euros. I think in 8-12 years time we may have a shot as our youngsters look good at age level. really good in technical ability(something that has been missing from previous generations)- But some how we need to shoe horn them into teams so they dont waste away!

[CaledonianCraig]

So you still believe you can out football England?

Of course. Not when we play so crap of course but that is another matter.

as i said delusional.

no disrespect mate- you are a good poster and a passionate fan. But i cant lie. The gulf in class is significant. Most 'lesser'  teams (on paper) that play against us make it very hard for us by sticking 10 men behind the ball.

And you are delusional as well if you are taking our showing last night as our best - it was far from it. We played crap - read, listen to post-match interviews and that is a given. Reading posts here by England fans I'd say they felt England played better than they have recently whilst we played worse than we have recently hence the result. It isn't rocket science. If the gulf is so massive how come we even managed to score a goal? We shot ourselves in the foot with the defending as well. It happens and it was merely a friendly.

[mystiroakey]

The gulf is pretty big mate- we are the equivalent of a top level pl team and Scotland are a top championship team at best.

so as i have said as a palace fan who supports a team on a very similar level to Scotland(and yeah we can score goals against better teams- that happens every week in the PL- i dont understand what you are talking about in fairness, and heck i think you used Barry Bannan for more minutes in that one game than we have all season!!)- You need to understand who you are and play accordingly if you want to out score a better team or draw against a better team.

you are just making excuses up. "oh we played rubbish", oh we were tired, oh it was a friendly" . No its Reality check time pal..you are just not good enough to try and play expansive football against us.

If you try and play football against a better footballing side you will get beaten 9 out of 10 times if not more.

[CaledonianCraig]

The gulf is pretty big mate- we are the equivalent of a top level pl team and Scotland are a top championship team at best.

so as i have said as a palace fan who supports a team on a very similar level to Scotland(and yeah we can score goals against better teams- that happens every week in the PL- i dont understand what you are talking about in fairness, and heck i think you used Barry Bannan for more minutes in that one game than we have all season!!)- You need to understand who you are and play accordingly if you want to out score a better team or draw against a better team.

you are just making excuses up. "oh we played rubbish", oh we were tired, oh it was a friendly" . No its Reality check time pal..you are just not good enough to try and play expansive football against us.

If you try and play football against a better footballing side you will get beaten 9 out of 10 times if not more.

It is you who needs a reality check.

We narrowly lost away to the world champions (something England can only dream of being) we have beaten Croatia twice and won away in Macedonia and Poland (friendly) so spare me the lecture on our crapness as our recent results and performances (last night aside) suggests otherwise. Is it an excuse saying we played crap when we did? The friendly excuse was already being lined up pre-match by one of your own (Duty) so spare me that one eh?

If your team puts in a sub-par performance against a decent international side - invariably you lose and that is what happened last night. We have our weaknesses in areas that need working on (who doesn't) such as finding more options up front as we missed Fletcher last night, also need to cut out sloppy defending as that costs you games. However, to try to judge us on the back of one friendly and disregard the past year and a half of form is wholly wrong.

[mystiroakey]

WHo are Poland?- you mean the team that is normally allways in our group and we allways beat them- You mean that Poland?

Germany- oh the team that got beaten by Poland and drew against ireland. you lost to them though- yeah!

Germany have been in horrid form- it isn't that Ireland , Poland and Scotland have magically turned into world beaters overnight!!- its that germany have lost key players, had injuries and had the world cup blues and have (for probally only a short space of time) regressed massively.


Reality check.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I suspect you two are never going to agree on this one, so why not let it go? Neither of you is going to change the other's mind.

[Stella]

I agree with Craig, in that we played well, and Scotland were below par. It happens. back to last night. I was surprised Berahino didn't come on.

[CaledonianCraig]

WHo are Poland?- you mean the team that is normally allways in our group and we allways beat them- You mean that Poland?

Germany- oh the team that got beaten by Poland and drew against ireland. you lost to them though- yeah!

Germany have been in horrid form- it isn't that Ireland , Poland and Scotland have magically turned into world beaters overnight!!- its that germany have lost key players, had injuries and had the world cup blues and have (for probally only a short space of time) regressed massively.


Reality check.

Germany (World Champions) - England (First Round eliminated) . Gulf in class - dare I say it to coin a silly much-used phrase?

Agreed that Poland have surprised me this campaign but since you wish to point to leagues players play in they have a number now in the Bundesliga which is stronger than the EPL. Croatia as well I note you leave out of your character assassinations. All far from mugs at international level and matches in which we have given very competitive matches against winning three drawing one and losing one (and need I remind you we were down to 10 men in Germany).

End of the day this double header was first and foremost about three points V Ireland as qualification for Euros is the big prize and we got them. Last night a win or half-decent performance would have been good but wasn't to be. Now onto our next qualifying match...

[mystiroakey]

From a Scottish perspective

The one player i was hugely disappointed with was naismith. I think he is on a level above fletcher- but i understand they do not have the depth beyond that so when they lose one they lose a lot!

Naismith was mugged all game long and he has been in brilliant form all year. He can play better..

[Guest]

Roy Hodgson does that with players, he just likes to call them up, let them experience the training, but has no actually intention of playing them. Did the same thing with Colback. Putting Lambert on was so strange, he's not the future, he was a stop gap, while some players were injured. He should be nowhere near the team & is nowhere near the Liverpool team. That's Roy for you though, he has his tried & trusted players, someone like Townsend would be a good example, regardless of form or playing time, Andros will be in the squad.

Lithuania (h), Italy (a), Ireland (a), Slovenia (a), San Marino (a), Switzerland (h), Estonia (h), Lithuania (a). Not really sure where we will actually understand where England are or the progression we've actually made under Roy, looking at these fixtures. There isn't one top team there, how many times do we need to play Italy? They aren't a top team, they struggle past teams like Albania etc.

I think we will be turning up to Euro 2016 in the dark in all honesty & our weaknesses not really exposed until the tournament.

[mystiroakey]

Roy Hodgson does that with players, he just likes to call them up, let them experience the training, but has no actually intention of playing them. Did the same thing with Colback. Putting Lambert on was so strange, he's not the future, he was a stop gap, while some players were injured. He should be nowhere near the team & is nowhere near the Liverpool team. That's Roy for you though, he has his tried & trusted players, someone like Townsend would be a good example, regardless of form or playing time, Andros will be in the squad.

Lithuania (h), Italy (a), Ireland (a), Slovenia (a), San Marino (a), Switzerland (h), Estonia (h), Lithuania (a). Not really sure where we will actually understand where England are or the progression we've actually made under Roy, looking at these fixtures. There isn't one top team there, how many times do we need to play Italy? They aren't a top team, they struggle past teams like Albania etc.

I think we will be turning up to Euro 2016 in the dark in all honesty & our weaknesses not really exposed until the tournament.

yes but its the same for everyone.

we cant do anything else- even if we played Germany or spain or argentina- its a still a friendly. The way spain treat friendlies is pretty odd- they get beat be lesser teams and have for donkies.

Maybe Argentina would be the best bet- They have an added grudge(falklands) and are a very good unit. But they just got beat by portugal in meaningless friendly- They are still the better team!

[CaledonianCraig]

From a Scottish perspective

The one player i was hugely disappointed with was naismith. I think he is on a level above fletcher- but i understand they do not have the depth beyond that so when they lose one they lose a lot!

Naismith was mugged all game long and he has been in brilliant form all year. He can play better..

Obviously, in some areas we lack strength in depth. Up front is one area and is why Strachan sets us up to play the way we do and it has been very effective - but last night we found out (though fans already knew as much) that Martin was no replacement for Fletcher.

Goalkeeping we are very strong, we are pretty decent in the full-back areas, a bit thin on the ground in central defence, good strength in midfield and decent out wide but could do with even more options. We do have reasons to be optimistic as we have Jack Harper in Real Madrid's Academy doing well in the Junior Europa League matches for them, Ryan Gauld at Sporting Lisbon and youngsters like Andrew Robertson breaking into our side and others breaking through at club level tipped for great things. The future is what we look to and despite last night the future looks far brighter than it did in the dark days of Burley and Levein.

[mystiroakey]

Bannan impressed me on occasion under Pulis. He could have been an ideal replacement. But he hasn't had the game time for palace. I think he has played two halves of PL football this year.

[VTR]

I've seen a comment on here about Rooney scoring lots of goals against minnows in qualifying, the implication being him taking the record from Charlton would be diminished/undeserved.

32 of Bobby Charlton's goals were in friendlies (compared to 14 now for Rooney). This included hat-tricks in games where England put 8 past the USA, Mexico and Switzerland.

So Bobby Charlton scored a number of cheap goals himself - arguably cheaper than anything Rooney gets as international football is overall a greater quality now.

I would rate Charlton as an all-time great, Rooney in the bracket below, but Rooney will certainly be worthy of the record should he get it.

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