The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.

[hampo17]

Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) - Dropped for Monreal, MONREAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE, and should not be in ahead of Bertrand or Cresswell

Phil Jagielka (Everton) - If you're gonna take a defender who is playing for a side looking lost in defence then you take young Stones, the best of their three anyway and the one with potential. Shawcross and Dier both having better seasons.

Any chance Dier had of making the squad went out of the window when he made mistakes for all three of United's goals last week.

[mystiroakey]

Palace are realising 9 internationals.

From my quick maths check that could be 5 welsh players.

Add Ramsey,bale and Allen and I think there first team could do some damage.

I am being forced into supporting Wales

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The defence in the latter is so poor. I honestly think Ings and Berahino would rip that back four apart with their pace. And considering thats people who dont even make the squad versus the first team I think it would be worryingly close

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) - Dropped for Monreal, MONREAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE, and should not be in ahead of Bertrand or Cresswell

Phil Jagielka (Everton) - If you're gonna take a defender who is playing for a side looking lost in defence then you take young Stones, the best of their three anyway and the one with potential. Shawcross and Dier both having better seasons.

Any chance Dier had of making the squad went out of the window when he made mistakes for all three of United's goals last week.

Id take his one bad game over every game Jagielka has played this season

[GSC]

England aren't a particularly strong team nowadays, but the top team to a man is pretty average

[mystiroakey]

The defence in the latter is so poor. I honestly think Ings and Berahino would rip that back four apart with their pace. And considering thats people who dont even make the squad versus the first team I think it would be worryingly close

interestingly - the two united CB's have had better stats and better form over the last 20 games than the two you put up in the team (from SSN)

[hampo17]

Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) - Dropped for Monreal, MONREAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE, and should not be in ahead of Bertrand or Cresswell

Phil Jagielka (Everton) - If you're gonna take a defender who is playing for a side looking lost in defence then you take young Stones, the best of their three anyway and the one with potential. Shawcross and Dier both having better seasons.

Any chance Dier had of making the squad went out of the window when he made mistakes for all three of United's goals last week.

Id take his one bad game over every game Jagielka has played this season

He's had more than one bad game buddy, not saying he shouldn't have picked but when you have a game that bad it really sticks in the memory.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Of course, I don't disagree Hampo, I just cant see how Jagielka is worth having in an England squad

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The defence in the latter is so poor. I honestly think Ings and Berahino would rip that back four apart with their pace. And considering thats people who dont even make the squad versus the first team I think it would be worryingly close

interestingly - the two united CB's have had better stats and better form over the last 20 games than the two you put up in the team (from SSN)

SSN choice of stats is often skewed for whatever point they want to make. They put up a set under the discussion that Gibbs n Shaw were the best left backs in the league (last week I think it was). It didnt really prove their point anyway and was just a snapshot of things they had chosen

[Hammersmith harrier]

The defence in the latter is so poor. I honestly think Ings and Berahino would rip that back four apart with their pace. And considering thats people who dont even make the squad versus the first team I think it would be worryingly close

interestingly - the two united CB's have had better stats and better form over the last 20 games than the two you put up in the team (from SSN)

Smalling doesn't get compared to Jagielka, he gets compared to Vidic and Ferdinand of 2008/2009, it's the same with Henderson being compared to the Gerrard of old. It creates a false sense that these players are worse than they actually are despite being better than players at other possibly lesser teams.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Name to remember for the future - Alex Pritchard

Excellent young player, very clever movement and good on the ball. Hopefully doesn't get lost in the Spurs vacuum when he returns from his loan at Brentford

Your boy is in the u21s squad

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'm abstaining purely on the fact Andros freakin Townsend is in the squad. Frak me

[Duty281]

It is only Lithuania, lads! No need to worry.

[Nakatomi Plaza]

I agree with Duty. Can't be bothered getting worked up over some dodgy selections when we should beat Lithuania comfortably and have a friendly against Italy who notoriously 'don't do friendlies'.

One thing a lot of posters may have missed is that the some of the younger players who are close to selection have been held back for the Under 21s. I think it's better for the likes of Berahino, Jenkinson, and Ings to get some proper game time for the youngsters. Hopefully this will allow Southgate to build a cohesive unit for the Euros this summer.

The players who excel in the tournament should then be pencilled in for the friendly squads at the start of next season.

[Guest]

andros & roy is just another mclaren & downing. regardless of form, will always be in the squad

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) - Dropped for Monreal, MONREAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE, and should not be in ahead of Bertrand or Cresswell

Phil Jagielka (Everton) - If you're gonna take a defender who is playing for a side looking lost in defence then you take young Stones, the best of their three anyway and the one with potential. Shawcross and Dier both having better seasons.

Any chance Dier had of making the squad went out of the window when he made mistakes for all three of United's goals last week.

Id take his one bad game over every game Jagielka has played this season

He's had more than one bad game buddy, not saying he shouldn't have picked but when you have a game that bad it really sticks in the memory.

Spurs have kept one clean sheet this year, so I can't see where the clamour for Dier to be picked is coming from.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I agree with Duty. Can't be bothered getting worked up over some dodgy selections when we should beat Lithuania comfortably and have a friendly against Italy who notoriously 'don't do friendlies'.

One thing a lot of posters may have missed is that the some of the younger players who are close to selection have been held back for the Under 21s. I think it's better for the likes of Berahino, Jenkinson, and Ings to get some proper game time for the youngsters. Hopefully this will allow Southgate to build a cohesive unit for the Euros this summer.

The players who excel in the tournament should then be pencilled in for the friendly squads at the start of next season.

It's more that it highlights how awful the options actually are, it being Lithuania is irrelevant as we seem to be in no position to progress with such a small talent pool, I have never felt pessimistic about the national side.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) - Dropped for Monreal, MONREAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE, and should not be in ahead of Bertrand or Cresswell

Phil Jagielka (Everton) - If you're gonna take a defender who is playing for a side looking lost in defence then you take young Stones, the best of their three anyway and the one with potential. Shawcross and Dier both having better seasons.

Any chance Dier had of making the squad went out of the window when he made mistakes for all three of United's goals last week.

Id take his one bad game over every game Jagielka has played this season

He's had more than one bad game buddy, not saying he shouldn't have picked but when you have a game that bad it really sticks in the memory.

Spurs have kept one clean sheet this year, so I can't see where the clamour for Dier to be picked is coming from.

Its not a clamour, its Jagielka quite obviously going backwards versus a younger player who is playing for a better defence (clean sheets regardless, Everton's defence has been dogmuck)

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The fact its against Lithuania is why i'm annoyed with the squad. Its a game we'll easily win, so why pick no marks to sit on the bench and train with the squad when theyre completely out of form and Roy will learn nothing about them he doesnt already know

[Guest]

The side that goes to euro 2016 will be pretty much what we've seen before. the experienced usual's, then two exciting youngsters, prob Kane & Barkley. Roy already has his tried & tested, won't deviate from it. players like ings, saido, jenkin got no chance of dislodging england first team players.

all this qualifying is just a drag. we know we'll get to euro's struggle past the early games, then reach a tough QF & bye bye. then roy pleading for two more years. #sameoldcycle

[super_realist]

The side that goes to euro 2016 will be pretty much what we've seen before. the experienced usual's, then two exciting youngsters, prob Kane & Barkley. Roy already has his tried & tested, won't deviate from it. players like ings, saido, jenkin got no chance of dislodging england first team players.

all this qualifying is just a drag. we know we'll get to euro's struggle past the early games, then reach a tough QF & bye bye. then roy pleading for two more years. #sameoldcycle

Wouldn't bank on that.

[Stella]

The side that goes to euro 2016 will be pretty much what we've seen before. the experienced usual's, then two exciting youngsters, prob Kane & Barkley. Roy already has his tried & tested, won't deviate from it. players like ings, saido, jenkin got no chance of dislodging england first team players.

all this qualifying is just a drag. we know we'll get to euro's struggle past the early games, then reach a tough QF & bye bye. then roy pleading for two more years. #sameoldcycle

Wouldn't bank on that.

Neither would I.

The euro groups are normally pretty tough.

[super_realist]

Probably tougher to get through a Euro group than a World cup group, but given the dross that will be there next year, England's chances of getting out of the group stage are increased slightly. They've failed to qualify more often than they've made a QF.

[Stella]

Probably tougher to get through a Euro group than a World cup group, but given the dross that will be there next year, England's chances of getting out of the group stage are increased slightly. They've failed to qualify more often than they've made a QF.

I don't know what the stats say, but there doesn't seem to be any really weak sides competing, hence having a tougher group.

[super_realist]

Well, there will be 24 teams this time, rather than the usual 16, so there are bound to be some weaker teams in there (e.g. potentially drivel like Scotland or ROI)
Iceland are currently second in their group, Israel top of theirs (they aren't even IN Europe so no idea why they are in it) Wales 2nd in theirs. Austria and NI also doing well, so looks like there could be some poorer teams than normal in there.

[mystiroakey]

We should deffo top 8 with our players in comparison to other teams. There is no doubt that although we dont have the strength of germany, france or spain we have the players to be regarded as at least within the top 6 in europe

I am not going to bank on it. But i would say its more likely than not.

I can feel a semi coming on...

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) - Dropped for Monreal, MONREAL FOR GOODNESS SAKE, and should not be in ahead of Bertrand or Cresswell

Phil Jagielka (Everton) - If you're gonna take a defender who is playing for a side looking lost in defence then you take young Stones, the best of their three anyway and the one with potential. Shawcross and Dier both having better seasons.

Any chance Dier had of making the squad went out of the window when he made mistakes for all three of United's goals last week.

Id take his one bad game over every game Jagielka has played this season

He's had more than one bad game buddy, not saying he shouldn't have picked but when you have a game that bad it really sticks in the memory.

Spurs have kept one clean sheet this year, so I can't see where the clamour for Dier to be picked is coming from.

Its not a clamour, its Jagielka quite obviously going backwards versus a younger player who is playing for a better defence (clean sheets regardless, Everton's defence has been dogmuck)

Neither are particularly appealing to me. My issue with Dier is only four months ago he wanted to stay at Spurs rather than play for the Under 21s as he felt he wanted to learn the position better. I've no problem with him wanting to improve, but this shows he's not ready at this point. I'd rather he got picked once he's nailed down being a centre half.

[Stella]

Well, there will be 24 teams this time, rather than the usual 16, so there are bound to be some weaker teams in there (e.g. potentially drivel like Scotland or ROI)
Iceland are currently second in their group, Israel top of theirs (they aren't even IN Europe so no idea why they are in it) Wales 2nd in theirs. Austria and NI also doing well, so looks like there could be some poorer teams than normal in there.

Yes 24. There will be some weaker teams now then.

What's the format? 6 groups of 4, then..........

[Stella]

We should deffo top 8 with our players in comparison to other teams. There is no doubt that although we dont have the strength of germany, france or spain we have the players to be regarded as at least within the top 6 in europe

I am not going to bank on it. But i would say its more likely than not.

I can feel a semi coming on...

Excited?

[mystiroakey]

Well, there will be 24 teams this time, rather than the usual 16, so there are bound to be some weaker teams in there (e.g. potentially drivel like Scotland or ROI)
Iceland are currently second in their group, Israel top of theirs (they aren't even IN Europe so no idea why they are in it) Wales 2nd in theirs. Austria and NI also doing well, so looks like there could be some poorer teams than normal in there.

Yes 24. There will be some weaker teams now then.

What's the format? 6 groups of 4, then..........

there will be a round of 16- so 6 groups that the top 2 qualify from plus the 2 best third place teams.

So it will be like the WC in the knock out stages

[super_realist]

Oakey, England have shown many times that "the players they have" makes no difference as to whether they make top 8 or not, as they frequently don't get to that stage.
13 attempts at Euro's, 4 QF's. Speaks for itself.

You'd possibly have an argument if you said England were a second tier nation in European football, but top 6 would be a stretch.

I'd put Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Holland and probably Belgium ahead of England.

[mystiroakey]

We should deffo top 8 with our players in comparison to other teams. There is no doubt that although we dont have the strength of germany, france or spain we have the players to be regarded as at least within the top 6 in europe

I am not going to bank on it. But i would say its more likely than not.

I can feel a semi coming on...

Excited?

Getting there mate . What are we talking about here- The football or my girlfriends new stockings.

[mystiroakey]

Oakey, England have shown many times that "the players they have" makes no difference as to whether they make top 8 or not, as they frequently don't get to that stage.
13 attempts at Euro's, 4 QF's. Speaks for itself.

You'd possibly have an argument if you said England were a second tier nation in European football, but top 6 would be a stretch.

I'd put Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Holland and probably Belgium ahead of England.

well you only put 5 teams ahead of england.

Its debatable when it comes to the Belgians.. But Hazard is one hell of a player- the rest are no different or worse than there english counterparts and many play in the PL.

[Stella]

We should deffo top 8 with our players in comparison to other teams. There is no doubt that although we dont have the strength of germany, france or spain we have the players to be regarded as at least within the top 6 in europe

I am not going to bank on it. But i would say its more likely than not.

I can feel a semi coming on...

Excited?

Getting there mate . What are we talking about here- The football or my girlfriends new stockings.

The latter.........please!

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Oakey, England have shown many times that "the players they have" makes no difference as to whether they make top 8 or not, as they frequently don't get to that stage.
13 attempts at Euro's, 4 QF's. Speaks for itself.

You'd possibly have an argument if you said England were a second tier nation in European football, but top 6 would be a stretch.

I'd put Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Holland and probably Belgium ahead of England.

well you only put 5 teams ahead of england.

Its debatable when it comes to the Belgians.. But Hazard is one hell of a player- the rest are no different  or worse than there english counterparts and many play in the PL.

At the moment, Germany and France with home advantage stand out. Spain have the quality to come again. I don't think there's a great deal of difference between the likes of Italy, Holland, England, Belgium, Portugal and Croatia.

[super_realist]

Oakey, England have shown many times that "the players they have" makes no difference as to whether they make top 8 or not, as they frequently don't get to that stage.
13 attempts at Euro's, 4 QF's. Speaks for itself.

You'd possibly have an argument if you said England were a second tier nation in European football, but top 6 would be a stretch.

I'd put Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Holland and probably Belgium ahead of England.

well you only put 5 teams ahead of england.

Its debatable when it comes to the Belgians.. But Hazard is one hell of a player- the rest are no different  or worse than there english counterparts and many play in the PL.

I listed SIX countries

The difference being that "their good players on paper" perform infinitely better than England's "good players on paper" in Internationals.

I'm struggling to remember when an England player really distinguished themselves or even consistently performed. They are like the football equivalent of the American Ryder Cup team. A group of allegedly talented individuals who don't know what playing as a team is like.

Be interesting to see how Kane does, looks to be top quality, and if his head doesn't get too big, could do well.

[Derbymanc]

Where would you rate England then SR and who would you put ahead of them?

[mystiroakey]

Oakey, England have shown many times that "the players they have" makes no difference as to whether they make top 8 or not, as they frequently don't get to that stage.
13 attempts at Euro's, 4 QF's. Speaks for itself.

You'd possibly have an argument if you said England were a second tier nation in European football, but top 6 would be a stretch.

I'd put Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Holland and probably Belgium ahead of England.

well you only put 5 teams ahead of england.

Its debatable when it comes to the Belgians.. But Hazard is one hell of a player- the rest are no different  or worse than there english counterparts and many play in the PL.

The difference being that "their good players on paper" perform infinitely better than England's "good players on paper" in Internationals.

I'm struggling to remember when an England player really distinguished themselves or even consistently performed. They are like the football equivalent of the American Ryder Cup team. A group of allegedly talented individuals who don't know what playing as a team is like.

Be interesting to see how Kane does, looks to be top quality, and if his head doesn't get too big, could do well.

belgium haven't competed well at international level- they just have a team based on a golden generation off potential- no different from ours back in 2002.

we performed ok in quite a few tourneys- the last one that we really played well was in 96- but we still got to knock out stages after and only went out on pens on quite a few occasions.

[super_realist]

I've just said Derby. You could probably put England somewhere in the 7-10 rank in Europe.

That's where their performances put them. 2 QF's out of the last 4 Euro's.

I can't see a justification for them being rated any higher.

Oakey, "Belgium haven't performed well at International level" ???? What? Topped their world cup group and reached the QF, whereas England were dead last in theirs. I think we can put Belgium above England.

[mystiroakey]

Thats fair enough SR- its kind of where most would put us- but i think you are getting a bit over excited over Belgium tbh. But I still feel the top 3 are clear (france(home advantage) , germany and spain) and then 5 or so teams on paper that can compete of which England is one of.

[Stella]

The Dutch, and Italians normally do well when it comes to tournaments. I'd put us in a bracket below these five. Belgium are seriously overrated.

[super_realist]

See above Oakey,

Looking at it slightly differently, I think we see two different England's. There is the "qualifying England" which seems to do ok in qualifying, then there is the terrible "tournament England" which regularly stinks the place out.

[mystiroakey]

I've just said Derby. You could probably put England somewhere in the 7-10 rank in Europe.

That's where their performances put them. 2 QF's out of the last 4 Euro's.

I can't see a justification for them being rated any higher.

Oakey, "Belgium haven't performed well at International level"   ???? What? Topped their world cup group and reached the QF, whereas England were dead last in theirs. I think we can put Belgium above England.

Its just a quarter final mate and there only one(ever or for some time (i cant be bothered to look it up).- and although they outclassed the US in round of 16 it took them a long time to turn them over and then USA almost got it back to a pen shoot out.

Last euros england reached the QF and went out on pens- belgium didn't even qualify

If you want to say you are only as good as your last tourny - thats fair enough- but it wasnt just england that lost out at group level- so did italy and spain.

[Derbymanc]

Out of all the teams in Europe I don't get how being 7th classes you as a second tier side.

[super_realist]

Yes, it's only a QF, but it was miles more than England achieved or look likely to achieve any time soon.

It's hard to argue that England are currently better than Belgium.

Like for like, you could probably make comparisons between the teams, but England seem incapable of turning up at tournaments.

[super_realist]

Out of all the teams in Europe I don't get how being 7th classes you as a second tier side.

Of course it does, there are such a small number of teams which can/do win tournaments in Europe, you can't really claim England are one of them, hence second tier, besides, I never said England were 7th, I said you could "probably" put them between 7-10.

[mystiroakey]

Yes, it's only a QF, but it was miles more than England achieved or look likely to achieve any time soon.

It's hard to argue that England are currently better than Belgium.

Like for like, you could probably make comparisons between the teams, but England seem incapable of turning up at tournaments.

you compare us to the US ryder cup team-i compare them to lee westwood and luke donald..(if they were all slightly worse but had Poulters mentality things might be different!)

but they you go- things change.. and thats what we hope- and I also hope other home nations get through. especially wales. I think there first 11 is very good in at 3/4's of the positions.

(as a palace fan i know how good some of them are and add the world class stars to them)

[Hammersmith harrier]

Is this a Belgium side currently 4th in their qualifying group?

[super_realist]

Tim Sherwood claiming Hodgsons bunch of disparate, disinterested losers will win 2016

[Hammersmith harrier]

Shock horror SR can't stop commenting about England.

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