Is this what fuels 6 hour marathon matches?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28970855

I don't know if egg chambers are specifically mentioned here, but it sounds possible or even likely that this technique has been a factor in some of the astonishing feats of stamina seen in recent years.

Wow amazing article and thanks for the link and knowledge.

Its good that WADA actually knows about it, and some day all the culprits be brought to justice and the culprits will then realize all the fake legacy they gained will not stand the test of the time.

On the other hand WADA should also confirm how this affect a Human life style and Life span in general by consumption of these gases in excess, if these gases are proven to be no harmful then they should be legalized than getting banned.

Whatever modern day game is full of cheaters, abusers, gamblers, fixers etc,.. I don't believe that I watch a 100% natural Human competing with another 100% natural human with the spirit of the game on.

Well it ain't helping Russians much, only good at Olympics?

Athletes as young as 12 say they use performance-enhancing drugs

Research by two Australian universities finds more than 10% of young athletes believe their competitors are also doping

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/09/research-shows-child-athletes-using-drugs

These teenagers will be going cold turkey in 3/4 year.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Athletes as young as 12 say they use performance-enhancing drugs

Research by two Australian universities finds more than 10% of young athletes believe their competitors are also doping

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/09/research-shows-child-athletes-using-drugs

These teenagers will be going cold turkey in 3/4 year.

The spirit of the game is long dead, people only see it as a profession and do everything to cross that elusive line of victory.

Human minds are born to cheat no federation can stop it.

This is fascinating...

"What is happening among elite athletes is a very artificial process, involving hypoxic chambers before competitions. This is artificial, and it is no different from the artificiality of xenon."

I like Bresnik's attitude, it is war and he trains with only naturally occurring material, like stones, water, trees, etc.

Djoko will win the USO then, since the egg chamber at  his friend is in NYC.

No wonder he did bad in Cinci/Toronto then...

Jahu wrote:Djoko will win the USO then, since the egg chamber at  his friend is in NYC.

No wonder he did bad in Cinci/Toronto then...

Federer seems to have perfected the art of miniaturization.

Naughty naughty

Jahu wrote:Naughty naughty

Just kidding, Jahu.

I like the Old Man among many others. If he beats BA today, he will be 71-9 @USO matching Pistol Pete.

Oh nice. How dare Connors be so far up in USO and W in match wins, unreachable, EVER

All players should drink the same juice and have the same medicines end of discussion Lets not stop there, same shoes same racquets same hairdo.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:All players should drink the same juice and have the same medicines end of discussion Lets not stop there, same shoes same racquets same hairdo.

Same pants/panties , shirt, bandannas, wrist bands, socks and make overs.

Last but not least all bottles should be arranged only in a specific way by ATP rule , and the amount of A-- pricking in the match should be made standard and everybody have to follow it and should do it the minimum number of time, we should have a clock on the public showing the count.

DirectView2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:All players should drink the same juice and have the same medicines end of discussion Lets not stop there, same shoes same racquets same hairdo.

Same pants/panties...

That sounds terribly unhygienic.

ListenUp wrote:

DirectView2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:All players should drink the same juice and have the same medicines end of discussion Lets not stop there, same shoes same racquets same hairdo.

Same pants/panties...

That sounds terribly unhygienic.

Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

kingraf wrote:I don't think this is cheating at all.

WADA disagrees, it seems. Strange that they don't have a test for it though.

Cheers for the article BB, interesting read.

If it's a foreign substance (liquid, solid or gas) taken into the body for performance enhancement then it shouldn't be allowed IMO.

Silver wrote:

kingraf wrote:I don't think this is cheating at all.

WADA disagrees, it seems. Strange that they don't have a test for it though.

Cheers for the article BB, interesting read.

Of course that's the most important thing, and if
a player gets caught, I won't have much pity for
them, as they knew the rules of engagement.
But I certainly don't think this is cheating or even
morally questionable. WADA aren't the alpha and
omega... Just because they say it's wrong
doesn't make it so. Bit like my feelings regarding
Marijuana and legislature.

The only way they can police it is to actually use the bio-passport scheme.

The only way the can effectively use the bio-passport scheme is to start actually blood testing players on a regular (not a couple times a season) basis.

Tennis are not going to start blood testing though. They do the minimum amount of testing in order to make them look pro-active against doping, but not enough that they risk catching any major players.

Sorry but it's a hat. It's fine to sanction tournaments and Fights and Olympics in places like Beijing, but this is too far? So ingesting harmful gasses is fine as long as the organisations get some greenback?

Air quality was fine at the Olympics in Beijing to be fair.

It's been banned by WADA anyway, the tennis authorities will police it as strongly as they police the use of EPO and blood doping (that is, not at all.)

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

That wasn't your point, you were laughing at them declaring it illegal if they couldn't police it.

I disagree with you on your second point, for the reason lydian gives.

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

That wasn't your point, you were laughing at them declaring it illegal if they couldn't police it.

I disagree with you on your second point, for the reason lydian gives.

Why are you worried about these new WADA policies KR?

For me any culprit found of cheating today , yesterday or tomorrow should be brought to justice, even if justice takes time some day Justice have to be delivered.

Very good thread BB.

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

That wasn't your point, you were laughing at them declaring it illegal if they couldn't police it.

I disagree with you on your second point, for the reason lydian gives.

It wasn't my point... I was responding to yours. You called it cheating. I disagree. They can't police it, but they are going to outlaw it, it's ridiculous. Athletes are allowed to train at altitude but god forbid they mimic this...

DirectView2 wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

That wasn't your point, you were laughing at them declaring it illegal if they couldn't police it.

I disagree with you on your second point, for the reason lydian gives.

Why are you worried about these new WADA policies KR?

For me any culprit found of cheating today , yesterday or tomorrow should be brought to justice, even if justice takes time some day Justice have to be delivered.

Very good thread BB.

Worried? I'm not sure what you mean by that... If you're inferring that I'm afraid of a player being caught... then lol... How will tennis players ever get around not getting banned for something which can't be tested? Would need Einstein himself to beat this security measure.

Anyway... my response to Silver was I thought clear enough.

kingraf wrote:
f course that's the most important thing, and if
a player gets caught, I won't have much pity for
them, as they knew the rules of engagement.
But I certainly don't think this is cheating or even
morally questionable. WADA aren't the alpha and
omega... Just because they say it's wrong
doesn't make it so. Bit like my feelings regarding
Marijuana and legislature.

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

That wasn't your point, you were laughing at them declaring it illegal if they couldn't police it.

I disagree with you on your second point, for the reason lydian gives.

It wasn't my point... I was responding to yours. You called it cheating. I disagree. They can't police it, but they are going to outlaw it, it's ridiculous. Athletes are allowed to train at altitude but god forbid they mimic this...

If you look at the linked posts you've helpfully quoted it's fairly obvious that I am correct.

You laughed at them banning something because you said they couldn't police it.
I observe that's not the point.
You change tack to disputing it us cheating.
I observe you've changed your point.
You deny that, but then change back to your original point.

By the way, they have extra Xenon in the atmosphere at altitude? I think you're missing the point about contrived or artificial techniques. Training at altitude isn't contrived. That said, you're entitled to your opinion, nobody can 'prove' you wrong for sure.

There's only the tiniest amount of xenon in the atmosphere though, it doesn't matter where you are or at what altitude, it's not enough to elicit any sort of physiological response.

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingraf wrote:Quite amusing, they're gonna ban something they can't test? So barring a player being an idiot and tweeting a xenon session, exactly how do they police this?

Two points:

1. Declaring something 'wrong' doesn't depend on it being testable. The crime is cheating, not being caught.
2. I got the impression tests are on the horizon.

I don't think this is cheating at all. I'm all for controlling doping and such, but this screams luddite. Let's ban cleaner water, and Breathable shirts while we at it.

That wasn't your point, you were laughing at them declaring it illegal if they couldn't police it.

I disagree with you on your second point, for the reason lydian gives.

It wasn't my point... I was responding to yours. You called it cheating. I disagree. They can't police it, but they are going to outlaw it, it's ridiculous. Athletes are allowed to train at altitude but god forbid they mimic this...

If you look at the linked posts you've helpfully quoted it's fairly obvious that I am correct.

You laughed at them banning something because you said they couldn't police it.
I observe that's not the point.
You change tack to disputing it us cheating.
I observe you've changed your point.
You deny that, but then change back to your original point.

By the way, they have extra Xenon in the atmosphere at altitude? I think you're missing the point about contrived or artificial techniques. Training at altitude isn't contrived. That said, you're entitled to your opinion,
nobody can 'prove' you wrong for sure.

I didn't laugh at anybody... I said in as many words that it's amusing that they are banning something they can't police. Have I altered from that stance? It's a very simple matter - can they test it? A simple yes or no suffices. As an extension of my point (something which I believe I'm allowed to do, as per site rules), I don't think Xenon, Argon or even oxygen training sessions are wrong.

Some confusion re - altitude and xenon (although I think dj got the gist). I'm not claiming to have trained with or used Xenon (although, maybe like Socals CVac sessions, funds willing, wouldnt be the worst experiment ever). What I meant was living 7, 000 feet above sea level has naturally raised my EPO levels, why is it wrong to artificially seek the same advantage in a more efficient manner?

The key was in the word 'artificial'. There was no confusion - I know the noble gasses are in trace amounts.

That's the thing though. Popping vitamins is fine (contrived way of getting your RDA), Gulping protein shakes and creatinine is fine (body can't produce creatine in the amounts needed for swift recovery for athletes naturally), Blood spinning is fine... but we draw the line here? Sorry but some people are gonna call bull.

Some of those things aren't fine in my book.

Can you draw the line just right?

I must be honest, my stance on doping has softened. Especially 'mechanical" doping, especially in non-combat sports. The reason is I currently am not really sure myself where the line should be drawn... I'd have no problem banning this, we're it not for the fact that there are some things WADA permits which I think have got to be worse. It's wrong for an endurance athlete to improve their VO2 capacity? Okay fine, but why can a golfer or archer use LASIK to improve their eyesight to 20/15? Wada blocks beta blockers in shooting, good... but they're fine in tennis? Like I said, I'm completely against banning things for the sake of banning them. There's no need to be a Luddite. You never want sport to be an arms race of sorts, where every athlete is stocked up to the core with questionable materials, understandably... but I disagree with this move, more especially because for the foreseeable future it's unlikely to actually be tested on... Sounds like a PR exercise.

Oxygen tents, egg chambers, halogen gases, etc...should all be banned if they're shown to artificially boost red blood cells or oxygen carrying capacity. The first 2 certainly do...and are used as EPO masking strategies, just ask Lance!

Why would a beta-blocker help a tennis player? They slow heart rate...which aids gun steadiness/accuracy but not necessarily want you want in a high level, endurance based physical sport...beta-blockers also cause fatigue too. That wouldn't be an issue in shooting.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/807788

Betas haven't properly been proven to cause fatigue. Beta blockers slow heart rate yes. A slowed heart rate burns less energy than a raised one... Not to mention improved control. Monfils would have loved a steady hand when his ball toss went off on his second serve at 5-5

Hey, what are you talking about...one of the most common documented side effects of beta blockers, observed through randomised clinical trials, is fatigue.

WADA has banned beta-b's for all Olympic sports...which would include tennis, which is managed by ITF for the Olympics...so its surprising if they're not banned for use on ATP tour.

Beta Blockers lower heart rate, and with exercise they often reduce the maximum heart rate you can achieve.

This will in effect reduce your maximum capacity for physical activity because with the reduced heart rate, there is no increase in stroke volume.

Therefore, in short, Beta Blockers would often be detrimental to a sportsman who engages in high intensity activity.

They decrease the activity of the heart by blocking the action of hormones like adrenaline.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Beta-blockers/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Why would anyone want to keep a consistent level of energy burning as a trade-off vs needing adrenaline in sports, especially one where short sprints, quick turns, explosive actions, etc., are required?

Maybe Beta blockers and tennis is not the greatest example. (I've been up since one dammit), although I'm pretty sure there are tennis players who would benefit from a decreased fight or flight response. Anyway, the point I was making is that I don't understand why it's fine for some contraptions and artificial syntherisisers to be used but not others. 20/15 visión would be a bonus in tennis, but you're allowed to do that... etc. Anyway I'm off Busy weekend ahead, so continue Monday?