Sky Sports throw everything they have at Pro12 coverage, and hit the mark

First topic message reminder :

http://www.thescore.ie/sky-pro12-debut-coverage-opinion-1659412-Sep2014/


This seams to be glowing praise for the Sky coverage.

What were your thoughts on it?

Will it help bring the league to the attention of a wider audience?

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:Personally I lost a lot of sympathy for the Scarlets are not Llanelli argument when Phil Bennett was talking about how we- as in the Scarlets- beat the All Blacks in 1972, and how it was a great victory for us (the Scarlets). The Scarlets held a big bash in 2012 to celebrate the anniversary. Well thats all well and good, but if we're not allowed to call them Llanelli they have to disassociate themselves from that history.

After all either the Scarlets didn't exist when that game happened and it has nothing to do with them, or they are the continuation of Llanelli and therefore the names are interchangeable.

I know that it's a sensitive issue and I appreciate it- and I do refer to them as the Scarlets myself 99% of the time- but my points is if the region themselves are willing to trade on the history of Llanelli RFC and lay claim to it, then people are gonna think of them as Llanelli as a result.

Notch you are correct in what you are saying, and as soon as people realise in Wales that the Scarlets are NOT Llanelli and the Blues are NOT Cardiff and the Dragons are NOT Newport and the Ospreys are NOT Swansea then we will not get the support that is needed into the grounds, the actual "regions" are now trying to make strides but the fans of Newport,Cardiff,Swansea and Llanelli need to start being less prehocial and start trying to embrace the region as well as should the people outside the local support, I live in Merthyr and my region is supposed to be the Blues, but when I go down there all I see are cardiff supporters, they all go on about the good old days, but the good old days for the four regions were only 10yrs ago, not 30 or 40yrs ago, and as soon as the more local support, the media and the ex-players of the old clubs get their head around this things would start to change.

Prehocial

With a hint of respect, you're an idiot if you think the majority of Dragons fans are classing them as Newport.

Ok, so the next time I speak to a "Dragons" fan and he tells me that he can remember when HIS team beat New Zealand in 1963 I can tell him he is correct ? Or should I remind him that the Dragons have NEVER played New Zealand and it was Newport and the only thing the two teams have in common is the ground they use for rugby ?

That will not cut any ice with some of the fans down at RP I can tell you.

To flip this whole senseless name thing on it's head, approximately how much of a ffwc do you think the disenfranchised hordes of the rugby-mad Welsh public in Gwent would give, if the NGD did the impossible and actually did down the All Blacks in a game of rugby?

Course, WRog would have to give us permission for the game to take place first.  Now how did that Sprays v Tonga game go again....

I have no problems with the NAMES of the regions, none at all, what I do have problems with is when ex-pros and fans alike continue to harp on back to the days that were, when so and so played for them, and the historical day the beat such and such, I just wish these people would realise that the regions history only goes back ten years. It has got to the point for me, that when I am at the game and people harp on, I just act courteous and be polite back, but underneath I get very annoyed.

MrsP wrote:I know Aukster.



Too many Y chromosomes around here for there to be any logic! The 2 things seem to be inversely proportional! Perhaps even mutually exclusive!

I'll have to draw a line under that!
Hmmm... being sexist in an understated samizdat, is just like a fine stiletto slowly injected into the corpulent macho heart. I'll have to be careful lest I give too logical a response and therefore be called a big blouse, but if I don't that gives all youse uns with the X factor free rein to go unchallenged... it's a paradox of a dilemma of an unsolvable riddle that is disappearing down the vortex of logical illogic...

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:Personally I lost a lot of sympathy for the Scarlets are not Llanelli argument when Phil Bennett was talking about how we- as in the Scarlets- beat the All Blacks in 1972, and how it was a great victory for us (the Scarlets). The Scarlets held a big bash in 2012 to celebrate the anniversary. Well thats all well and good, but if we're not allowed to call them Llanelli they have to disassociate themselves from that history.

After all either the Scarlets didn't exist when that game happened and it has nothing to do with them, or they are the continuation of Llanelli and therefore the names are interchangeable.

I know that it's a sensitive issue and I appreciate it- and I do refer to them as the Scarlets myself 99% of the time- but my points is if the region themselves are willing to trade on the history of Llanelli RFC and lay claim to it, then people are gonna think of them as Llanelli as a result.

Notch you are correct in what you are saying, and as soon as people realise in Wales that the Scarlets are NOT Llanelli and the Blues are NOT Cardiff and the Dragons are NOT Newport and the Ospreys are NOT Swansea then we will not get the support that is needed into the grounds, the actual "regions" are now trying to make strides but the fans of Newport,Cardiff,Swansea and Llanelli need to start being less prehocial and start trying to embrace the region as well as should the people outside the local support, I live in Merthyr and my region is supposed to be the Blues, but when I go down there all I see are cardiff supporters, they all go on about the good old days, but the good old days for the four regions were only 10yrs ago, not 30 or 40yrs ago, and as soon as the more local support, the media and the ex-players of the old clubs get their head around this things would start to change.

Prehocial

With a hint of respect, you're an idiot if you think the majority of Dragons fans are classing them as Newport.

Ok, so the next time I speak to a "Dragons" fan and he tells me that he can remember when HIS team beat New Zealand in 1963 I can tell him he is correct ? Or should I remind him that the Dragons have NEVER played New Zealand and it was Newport and the only thing the two teams have in common is the ground they use for rugby ?

That will not cut any ice with some of the fans down at RP I can tell you.

To flip this whole senseless name thing on it's head, approximately how much of a ffwc do you think the disenfranchised hordes of the rugby-mad Welsh public in Gwent would give, if the NGD did the impossible and actually did down the All Blacks in a game of rugby?

Course, WRog would have to give us permission for the game to take place first.  Now how did that Sprays v Tonga game go again....

I have no problems with the NAMES of the regions, none at all, what I do have problems with is when ex-pros and fans alike continue to harp on back to the days that were, when so and so played for them, and the historical day the beat such and such, I just wish these people would realise that the regions history only goes back ten years. It has got to the point for me, that when I am at the game and people harp on, I just act courteous and be polite back, but underneath I get very annoyed.

Why though? The Scarlets and Blues paid to be stand-alones, and in the absence of any real definition from the WRU (who started this experiment) as to what a 'region' is, who is to say it is anti-regions to claim a continuation with the history of the region they represent?

Pro-teams in Wales should be just that. If it sells more tickets and jerseys in West Wales to have the pro-team marketing get the locals all misty-eyed about Delme and Phil why does it matter? It's all down to success really in any case. The sooner we let the four pro clubs get on with the business of professional sport without all this Love sacks the better.

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, so the next time I speak to a "Dragons" fan and he tells me that he can remember when HIS team beat New Zealand in 1963 I can tell him he is correct ? Or should I remind him that the Dragons have NEVER played New Zealand and it was Newport and the only thing the two teams have in common is the ground they use for rugby ?

That will not cut any ice with some of the fans down at RP I can tell you.

Erm, aren't the Dragons the representative team that covers Newport (as well as other areas)? So a Dragons fan could also be a Newport fan. So nothing wrong if, during one of HIS team's games (Dragons) he says he can remember when HIS team (Newport) played New Zealand.  Whilst another Drgaons fans might say, during one of HIS team's games (Dragons), that HIS team (some other club within the region) has never played the All Blacks.


Hint, people are allowed to support more than one side, especially in different tiers and one level is supposed to regional.

Please, do not be antagonising over this, you know what I am saying, there are Dragons fans who class Newports history as part of the Dragons history, the same as Phill Bennett going on how the Scarlets beat New Zealand way back when, but of course you knew where I was comming from, but you just wanted to try and be clever, I actualy go to the regions games, and I can tell you that there are a lot of HOME fans that do not see any difference between their region and the club that came before it. They are different entities, this is the way I see it, and I support the regions, not the clubs, I have my own club who I like to support.

Just accept you were wrong. It was his team, as he was a Newport fan before the game went regional. That's like me saying I never played for Kinloss as I now play for Risca.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:Personally I lost a lot of sympathy for the Scarlets are not Llanelli argument when Phil Bennett was talking about how we- as in the Scarlets- beat the All Blacks in 1972, and how it was a great victory for us (the Scarlets). The Scarlets held a big bash in 2012 to celebrate the anniversary. Well thats all well and good, but if we're not allowed to call them Llanelli they have to disassociate themselves from that history.

After all either the Scarlets didn't exist when that game happened and it has nothing to do with them, or they are the continuation of Llanelli and therefore the names are interchangeable.

I know that it's a sensitive issue and I appreciate it- and I do refer to them as the Scarlets myself 99% of the time- but my points is if the region themselves are willing to trade on the history of Llanelli RFC and lay claim to it, then people are gonna think of them as Llanelli as a result.

Notch you are correct in what you are saying, and as soon as people realise in Wales that the Scarlets are NOT Llanelli and the Blues are NOT Cardiff and the Dragons are NOT Newport and the Ospreys are NOT Swansea then we will not get the support that is needed into the grounds, the actual "regions" are now trying to make strides but the fans of Newport,Cardiff,Swansea and Llanelli need to start being less prehocial and start trying to embrace the region as well as should the people outside the local support, I live in Merthyr and my region is supposed to be the Blues, but when I go down there all I see are cardiff supporters, they all go on about the good old days, but the good old days for the four regions were only 10yrs ago, not 30 or 40yrs ago, and as soon as the more local support, the media and the ex-players of the old clubs get their head around this things would start to change.

Prehocial

With a hint of respect, you're an idiot if you think the majority of Dragons fans are classing them as Newport.

Ok, so the next time I speak to a "Dragons" fan and he tells me that he can remember when HIS team beat New Zealand in 1963 I can tell him he is correct ? Or should I remind him that the Dragons have NEVER played New Zealand and it was Newport and the only thing the two teams have in common is the ground they use for rugby ?

That will not cut any ice with some of the fans down at RP I can tell you.

To flip this whole senseless name thing on it's head, approximately how much of a ffwc do you think the disenfranchised hordes of the rugby-mad Welsh public in Gwent would give, if the NGD did the impossible and actually did down the All Blacks in a game of rugby?

Course, WRog would have to give us permission for the game to take place first.  Now how did that Sprays v Tonga game go again....

I have no problems with the NAMES of the regions, none at all, what I do have problems with is when ex-pros and fans alike continue to harp on back to the days that were, when so and so played for them, and the historical day the beat such and such, I just wish these people would realise that the regions history only goes back ten years. It has got to the point for me, that when I am at the game and people harp on, I just act courteous and be polite back, but underneath I get very annoyed.

Why though?  The Scarlets and Blues paid to be stand-alones, and in the absence of any real definition from the WRU (who started this experiment) as to what a 'region' is, who is to say it is anti-regions to claim a continuation with the history of the region they represent?

Pro-teams in Wales should be just that.  If it sells more tickets and jerseys in West Wales to have the pro-team marketing get the locals all misty-eyed about Delme and Phil why does it matter?  It's all down to success really in any case.  The sooner we let the four pro clubs get on with the business of professional sport without all this Love sacks the better.

They are not PRO CLUBS though are they, they are four PRO REGIONS, they are not there to represent a town or a city they are their to represent towns and cities with their region, and I must say the actual REGIONS are now making an effort within their REGION, it is fans like you who insist that they are still "YOUR" club that is holding them back, from this forum I take it that you are a Dragons fan, yes ? Well the only history the Dragons have is from 2003 onwards, anything Newport is still a part of Newport's history, they are still there as a club you know ? It's time that us as fans moved on, FFS it's taken a decade, the minute we can all agree that these four pro REGIONS are new and shiney then we can all move forward and the local fans could help a lot in doing just that.

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, so the next time I speak to a "Dragons" fan and he tells me that he can remember when HIS team beat New Zealand in 1963 I can tell him he is correct ? Or should I remind him that the Dragons have NEVER played New Zealand and it was Newport and the only thing the two teams have in common is the ground they use for rugby ?

That will not cut any ice with some of the fans down at RP I can tell you.

Erm, aren't the Dragons the representative team that covers Newport (as well as other areas)? So a Dragons fan could also be a Newport fan. So nothing wrong if, during one of HIS team's games (Dragons) he says he can remember when HIS team (Newport) played New Zealand.  Whilst another Drgaons fans might say, during one of HIS team's games (Dragons), that HIS team (some other club within the region) has never played the All Blacks.


Hint, people are allowed to support more than one side, especially in different tiers and one level is supposed to regional.

Please, do not be antagonising over this, you know what I am saying, there are Dragons fans who class Newports history as part of the Dragons history, the same as Phill Bennett going on how the Scarlets beat New Zealand way back when, but of course you knew where I was comming from, but you just wanted to try and be clever, I actualy go to the regions games, and I can tell you that there are a lot of HOME fans that do not see any difference between their region and the club that came before it. They are different entities, this is the way I see it, and I support the regions, not the clubs, I have my own club who I like to support.

Just accept you were wrong. It was his team, as he was a Newport fan before the game went regional. That's like me saying I never played for Kinloss as I now play for Risca.

How am I wrong ? Newport is Newport, they still have a team, the Dragons are a totaly new entity, that started ten years ago, they represent the whole of Gwent, what is the difference between a Dragons supporter from Cross Keys using the history of Cross Keys as a part of the Dragons history ? Until we get passed this the regions will not move forward, and this is not the fault of the regions themselves as they have now started to embrace the whole region they are meant to represent, it's just the core of the local's and the ex-pros that need to realise this to move forward.

LordDowlais wrote:

They are not PRO CLUBS though are they, they are four PRO REGIONS, they are not there to represent a town or a city they are their to represent towns and cities with their region, and I must say the actual REGIONS are now making an effort within their REGION, it is fans like you who insist that they are still "YOUR" club that is holding them back, from this forum I take it that you are a Dragons fan, yes ? Well the only history the Dragons have is from 2003 onwards, anything Newport is still a part of Newport's history, they are still there as a club you know ? It's time that us as fans moved on, FFS it's taken a decade, the minute we can all agree that these four pro REGIONS are new and shiney then we can all move forward and the local fans could help a lot in doing just that.

I can see the self-enforced sabbatical hasn't brought your anger issues under control, nor upped your reading age any.

I never said pro clubs, did I, nor have I ever insisted they are 'my' club. Please direct me to that exact post if you can prove otherwise. A Cross Keys fan can claim whatever he wants if he buys a ticket, like anyone else who buys a ticket and supports the team.

I say again, where was/is it ever quantified what a region is, or is meant to represent? Where is the objective analysis that it is the best format for the organisation of pro rugby in Wales? What if in (as in Cardiff especially) they will perform better as a pro rugby team if they continue as a club not a region?

This 'new and shiny' cobblers is all a bit Khmer Rouge Year One in it's reasoning if you ask me.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

They are not PRO CLUBS though are they, they are four PRO REGIONS, they are not there to represent a town or a city they are their to represent towns and cities with their region, and I must say the actual REGIONS are now making an effort within their REGION, it is fans like you who insist that they are still "YOUR" club that is holding them back, from this forum I take it that you are a Dragons fan, yes ? Well the only history the Dragons have is from 2003 onwards, anything Newport is still a part of Newport's history, they are still there as a club you know ? It's time that us as fans moved on, FFS it's taken a decade, the minute we can all agree that these four pro REGIONS are new and shiney then we can all move forward and the local fans could help a lot in doing just that.

I can see the self-enforced sabbatical hasn't brought your anger issues under control, nor upped your reading age any.

I never said pro clubs, did I, nor have I ever insisted they are 'my' club.  Please direct me to that exact post if you can prove otherwise.  A Cross Keys fan can claim whatever he wants if he buys a ticket, like anyone else who buys a ticket and supports the team.

I say again, where was/is it ever quantified what a region is, or is meant to represent?  Where is the objective analysis that it is the best format for the organisation of pro rugby in Wales?  What if in (as in Cardiff especially) they will perform better as a pro rugby team if they continue as a club not a region?

This 'new and shiny' cobblers is all a bit Khmer Rouge Year One in it's reasoning if you ask me.

Stone I am bot getting into an argument with you on this, but you question my reading age, then lie about something you typed, check your post, I even highlighted it in bold in my reply, you clearly say "FOUR PRO CLUBS". Here's some links for you if you need to learn what a region is supposed to represent :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_of_regional_rugby_union_teams_in_Wales

http://www.regionalrugbywales.com/

Wikipedia?  FFS that's scraping the barrel.  But kind of reinforces my point if anything.  Where is the WRUin doc that states what they are and what they are meant to represent?

RRW wrote: Regional Rugby Wales (RRW) is the body that represents the four professional regional rugby teams in Wales – Cardiff Blues, Newport Gwent Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets – who all compete at the top tier of the club/provincial game in Europe; currently the RaboDirect PRO12, the LV Cup and ERCC

Key is professional rugby teams, this club/region nonsense is immaterial to that.  I'll say again, why can't a club be a region, or a region be a club?  It doesn't matter, does it?  What matters is that they are run as a professional sports enterprise and do whatever they need to do to maximise income.  If Cardiff get more bods through the door, sponsorships, tv interest as Cardiff then wtf should they be wasting time trying to mollycoddle the likes of Ponty?

The professional rugby teams are the regions, nobody is trying to mollycoddle anybody, the Cardiff Blues get more advertising by using the city name in it's title I get that, but Cardiff RFC still exist, they play in the Welsh prem, the Cardiff Blues represent everyone from Cardiff Bay, to Brecon, they encompass Pontypridd, Treforest, Merthyr, Aberdare, Mountain Ash, Glyn Coch, Abercynnon, Rhondda. Cardiff Blues are making strides in and around their area, they have sent representatives to the local rugby club where I live and you can get tickets there, I cannot not see why you would be like this, you make it sound as if you do not want the regions to represent their area of Wales and should be privy to the cities and towns in which they play, you do realise that there are talks to move games around the regions don't you ? Or would you be dead set against that because they are for you and nobody else ?

Point spectacularly missed, yet again.

What point ?

Simple question. Were the clubs replaced by the region or do they now sit side by side so to speak?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Simple question. Were the clubs replaced by the region or do they now sit side by side so to speak?

No replacing, Cardiff RFC, Newport RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea RFC all still exist and they play in the same league that they have since it's inception, the regions were formed to cover an area with those clubs plus others in it, almost like the Irish provinces, here a link to a map of Wales to show the areas in which they are supposed to represent:-

https://www.google.de/images?q=welsh+regional+rugby+map&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&gws_rd=ssl&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=s2YQVJbELYH8ygOg4YDoCQ&ved=0CC8QsAQ

The regions are a completely different entity.

LordDowlais wrote:What point ?

Exactly.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:What point ?

Exactly.

Well then, instead of being annoying be more specific, perhaps then I can see just what the fook you are harping on about.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Simple question. Were the clubs replaced by the region or do they now sit side by side so to speak?

Both.

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Simple question. Were the clubs replaced by the region or do they now sit side by side so to speak?

Both.  

How can the answer be both ? Nothing has been replaced, why can't you grasp this, the clubs are still there, they are playing in the same league that they always have done, the regions are four seperate teams all supported by the clubs within their region, whay are you being such a tool over this ? You have supported Welsh rugby for long enough to know what the regions are all about, you do not seem like a dull person, so either you are just a wum or you are just being annoying for the sake of it.

No it can t be both which I guess points towards the regions being additions.

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Simple question. Were the clubs replaced by the region or do they now sit side by side so to speak?

Both.  

How can the answer be both ? Nothing has been replaced, why can't you grasp this, the clubs are still there, they are playing in the same league that they always have done, the regions are four seperate teams all supported by the clubs within their region, whay are you being such a tool over this ? You have supported Welsh rugby for long enough to know what the regions are all about, you do not seem like a dull person, so either you are just a wum or you are just being annoying for the sake of it.

Nothing has been replaced? You just said they're all new plastic fantastic REGIONS, circa 2003...

So you re saying the region replaced the club and the club that now exists was newly created.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you re saying the region replaced the club and the club that now exists was newly created.

No

So LDs correct in that case.

No

You make a convincing argument.

Stone Motif wrote:Wikipedia?  FFS that's scraping the barrel.  

That Wiki link aint that bad though mun and i'm sure i've used it in the past. The 2003 version of the agreed regional map shown with the little blue dot down Cardiff way always gives me a giggle.

No 7&1/2 wrote: You make a convincing argument.

Thanks

It always makes me laugh (on the inside) when someone takes affront at their regions/provinces or whatever being referred to as 'clubs'. Quite often these very same people are on 'best club' or 'best club stadium' taking about their 'region' or 'province'. 'Club' is synonymous with 'domestic team' and is used all the time for such, except when someone has a cob on and wants to be a ****.

And they're registered to the WRU as 'clubs' as far as the IRB are concerned.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you re saying the region replaced the club and the club that now exists was newly created.

Cardiff replaced their jersey crest with a bloo loo logo and voila, the region was born.

Another season begins with the "reejunalism" nonsense again. Call a spade a spade I say. Up to the nobs in charge to come clean.

Simon Thomas @simonrug · 38m

@tumblescarlet67 @rugbyPhilBB Covering the Scarlets and the Blues now is like covering Llanelli and Cardiff 15 years ago for what it's worth

I find it very funny, that the only people who see the regions as clubs are the old Newport RFC and Cardiff RFC supporters, anyway, I look at the regions for what they are supposed to be "REGIONS" if you want to support Cardiff or Newport you can, they play in the Welsh prem.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you re saying the region replaced the club and the club that now exists was newly created.

Cardiff replaced their jersey crest with a bloo loo logo and voila, the region was born.

So Cardiff the club changed their badge and became the region, so the club that exists now is new? Or are you saying the club that used to exist is now both the region and the club? Do they share players. I don't follow Welsh rugby that closely certianly not back then so interested to know.

Go on the recent "Clubs unsung hero" thread and there are 4 Irish posters talking about their Provincial unsung hero. No, "They're not clubs but..." Just an assumption that "clubs" included the Provinces as it is used to refer to a domestic team (and the Provinces are further away from clubs than the Regions are).

They only bring out the pedantic "but they're not clubs" when it suits them. It's a complete irrelevance that some people cling onto for some reason. They're domestic teams, therefore they are clubs. They may represent a Province or a Region, but they are still clubs.

So basically it's still Cardiff the club but the WFU are saying to people outside of Cardiff that's who you need to support even though they only represented Cardiff the city before x point in time, plus Cardiff can have another club to replace them?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you re saying the region replaced the club and the club that now exists was newly created.

Cardiff replaced their jersey crest with a bloo loo logo and voila, the region was born.

So Cardiff the club changed their badge and became the region, so the club that exists now is new? Or are you saying the club that used to exist is now both the region and the club? Do they share players. I don't follow Welsh rugby that closely certianly not back then so interested to know.

Are you shewer coz it might drive you insane.

Ha. You're probably correct!

HammerofThunor wrote:Go on the recent "Clubs unsung hero" thread and there are 4 Irish posters talking about their Provincial unsung hero. No, "They're not clubs but..." Just an assumption that "clubs" included the Provinces as it is used to refer to a domestic team (and the Provinces are further away from clubs than the Regions are).

They only bring out the pedantic "but they're not clubs" when it suits them. It's a complete irrelevance that some people cling onto for some reason. They're domestic teams, therefore they are clubs. They may represent a Province or a Region, but they are still clubs

.

Thunor, with the greatest respect, what do you know about any of it ? You are not even Welsh, you do not live in Wales so can you please enlighten me as how you have come to know so much about Welsh rugby ?

The truth is, THEY ARE NOT CLUBS, the clubs that came before them still exist, the clubs did not cease to exist and were replaced by these other so called clubs, we now have the SCARLETS, they represent the whole west of Wales and the North of Wales until the north get a region, the Cardiff Blues, they represent all of Mid Glamorgan and the surrounding area of Cardiff, we have the OSPREYS, they represent all of the Swansea area and the Neath Valley's and we have the DRAGONS who represent the whole of Gwent, it is high time people got on board with this because that is the way in which we are going.

LordDowlais wrote:I find it very funny, that the only people who see the regions as clubs are the old Newport RFC and Cardiff RFC supporters, anyway, I look at the regions for what they are supposed to be "REGIONS" if you want to support Cardiff or Newport you can, they play in the Welsh prem.

You get very 'right on' regarding regions embracing all and sundry disenfranchised dabs, as the panacea for all Welsh Rugby's ills. Seems strange you can't appreciate that the old club supporters might get a bit miffed that they can't watch their club play in the top flight anymore, because they now have to change to represent the club down the road who a) can't sustain it economically, b) don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting there off their own back, and c) won't support the new entity either way. All on the basis of an unproven reasoning that may or may not be the best way for them to succeed as a professional outfit.

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Go on the recent "Clubs unsung hero" thread and there are 4 Irish posters talking about their Provincial unsung hero. No, "They're not clubs but..." Just an assumption that "clubs" included the Provinces as it is used to refer to a domestic team (and the Provinces are further away from clubs than the Regions are).

They only bring out the pedantic "but they're not clubs" when it suits them. It's a complete irrelevance that some people cling onto for some reason. They're domestic teams, therefore they are clubs. They may represent a Province or a Region, but they are still clubs

.

Thunor, with the greatest respect, what do you know about any of it ? You are not even Welsh, you do not live in Wales so can you please enlighten me as how you have come to know so much about Welsh rugby ?

Steady on LD. You don't have to be Welsh and live in Wales to have knowlege about Welsh rugby.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. You're probably correct!

I probably am...Beep!

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I find it very funny, that the only people who see the regions as clubs are the old Newport RFC and Cardiff RFC supporters, anyway, I look at the regions for what they are supposed to be "REGIONS" if you want to support Cardiff or Newport you can, they play in the Welsh prem.

You get very 'right on' regarding regions embracing all and sundry disenfranchised dabs, as the panacea for all Welsh Rugby's ills. Seems strange you can't appreciate that the old club supporters might get a bit miffed that they can't watch their club play in the top flight anymore, because they now have to change to represent the club down the road who a) can't sustain it economically, b) don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting there off their own back, and c) won't support the new entity either way.  All on the basis of an unproven reasoning that may or may not be the best way for them to succeed as a professional outfit.

It works both ways Stone, I had my "Region" taken away from me and was told to get behind another region, but instead of all the chest thumping I just thought I would try and give my support to all the regions that were left, it is fans like you who keep the disenfranchised fans away from supporting the region with your harping on about how it is still the same club as it always was. Things are changing, people are becoming more open minded about the teams they support, the old bitterness is fading amongst the disenfranchised fans, now it is only parochial and insular fans like you who are holding things back.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Go on the recent "Clubs unsung hero" thread and there are 4 Irish posters talking about their Provincial unsung hero. No, "They're not clubs but..." Just an assumption that "clubs" included the Provinces as it is used to refer to a domestic team (and the Provinces are further away from clubs than the Regions are).

They only bring out the pedantic "but they're not clubs" when it suits them. It's a complete irrelevance that some people cling onto for some reason. They're domestic teams, therefore they are clubs. They may represent a Province or a Region, but they are still clubs

.

Thunor, with the greatest respect, what do you know about any of it ? You are not even Welsh, you do not live in Wales so can you please enlighten me as how you have come to know so much about Welsh rugby ?

Steady on LD. You don't have to be Welsh and live in Wales to have knowlege about Welsh rugby.

Thats why I asked with the greatest respect, how he comes to know so much about it.

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Go on the recent "Clubs unsung hero" thread and there are 4 Irish posters talking about their Provincial unsung hero. No, "They're not clubs but..." Just an assumption that "clubs" included the Provinces as it is used to refer to a domestic team (and the Provinces are further away from clubs than the Regions are).

They only bring out the pedantic "but they're not clubs" when it suits them. It's a complete irrelevance that some people cling onto for some reason. They're domestic teams, therefore they are clubs. They may represent a Province or a Region, but they are still clubs

.

Thunor, with the greatest respect, what do you know about any of it ? You are not even Welsh, you do not live in Wales so can you please enlighten me as how you have come to know so much about Welsh rugby ?

The truth is, THEY ARE NOT CLUBS, the clubs that came before them still exist, the clubs did not cease to exist and were replaced by these other so called clubs, we now have the SCARLETS, they represent the whole west of Wales and the North of Wales until the north get a region, the Cardiff Blues, they represent all of Mid Glamorgan and the surrounding area of Cardiff, we have the OSPREYS, they represent all of the Swansea area and the Neath Valley's and we have the DRAGONS who represent the whole of Gwent, it is high time people got on board with this because that is the way in which we are going.

What Thunor was getting at (or at least the way I read it), is that sometimes people get bogged down in the semantics of things, and to be honest he is right. Look at the SH sides, would you say that the Franchises in the S15 (or whatever its called) are not clubs? I think most people would even though they are essentially the same as our regions.

Also just because a club is a club does not mean that it is not supported by people who live outside the town/city limits. So a number of clubs are supported as if they were 'regions'. Look at soccer. Cardiff Red Dragons (or whatever) and the Swans are both supported by people from a fair old geographic area (probably larger than the regional rugby boundaries), yet they are clubs not regions.

I sort of regret grumbling about people getting the names all fupped up now.

SS, come on, you are Welsh, you have supported Welsh rugby for years, you tell me then, what are the regions suppose to be ? Why were they set up in the first place ? What are they meant to represent ? It has nothing to do with football, it's not as if the Bluebirds and the Swans were told to play in the Welsh prem and then have another team invented for the surrounding area's to support. You, as well as Stone and CD all know what it is, yet you chose to go against it, on purpose for your own insular reasons. Unfortunatley until things like this stop then the bickering will keep on, I spend a lot of time in West Wales in Pembroke to be exact and all I see down there are people in Scarlets jerseys, because it is their region.

LordDowlais wrote:SS, come on, you are Welsh, you have supported Welsh rugby for years, you tell me then, what are the regions suppose to be ? Why were they set up in the first place ? What are they meant to represent ? It has nothing to do with football, it's not as if the Bluebirds and the Swans were told to play in the Welsh prem and then have another team invented for the surrounding area's to support. You, as well as Stone and CD all know what it is, yet you chose to go against it, on purpose for your own insular reasons. Unfortunatley until things like this stop then the bickering will keep on, I spend a lot of time in West Wales in Pembroke to be exact and all I see down there are people in Scarlets jerseys, because it is their region.

Pro clubs based within loosely defined areas. Something like that.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:SS, come on, you are Welsh, you have supported Welsh rugby for years, you tell me then, what are the regions suppose to be ? Why were they set up in the first place ? What are they meant to represent ? It has nothing to do with football, it's not as if the Bluebirds and the Swans were told to play in the Welsh prem and then have another team invented for the surrounding area's to support. You, as well as Stone and CD all know what it is, yet you chose to go against it, on purpose for your own insular reasons. Unfortunatley until things like this stop then the bickering will keep on, I spend a lot of time in West Wales in Pembroke to be exact and all I see down there are people in Scarlets jerseys, because it is their region.

Pro clubs based within loosely defined areas. Something like that.

for what reason ? Also they are not clubs.

How did "Sky Sports throw everything they have at Pro12 coverage, and hit the mark" desend to become a clubs/regions argument?

ah well, most topics usually do, I may as well join in

My take of it is Scarlets and Blues Kept thier European records and history when they went regional, making them super clubs,

Scarlets - didn't have the same rivalry with their neighbour clubs they are now representing and were able to more successfully evolve into a region.
Verdict - Promoted Superclub evolving to become a region

Blues - paid to stand alone as a superclub and only wanted to represent Cardiff, but with the WRU closing the Celtic Warriors the WRU increased the representive area against the Blues wishes, they did have rival neighbours and the WRU forced marriage was never going to be a happy one.
Verdict Superclub (with extra unwanted representive area pushed onto them)

Ospreys - started with a brand new history in 2003 and while the clubs of the region have had fallings out are a region
Verdict Region

Dragons - is a difficut one, pushed to keep Newport in the name as were worried they may alienate the majority of their potentional fanbase without it, which makes since at the start. but while Llanelli and Neath-Swansea have been dropped by other team the Dragons have stuck with having the Newport. However are similar to the Scarlets is other respects as they have evolved into a region working with other clubs in thier area, and apart from the Newport in the name the kit and history have been changed so I would say are more regional than Scarlets.
Verdit - region - but still loose ties to Newport for fear of alienating fans.

Kingshu wrote:How did "Sky Sports throw everything they have at Pro12 coverage, and hit the mark" desend to become a clubs/regions argument?

ah well, most topics usually do, I may as well join in

My take of it is Scarlets and Blues Kept thier European records and history when they went regional, making them super clubs,

Scarlets - didn't have the same rivalry with their neighbour clubs they are now representing and were able to more successfully evolve into a region.
Verdict - Promoted Superclub evolving to become a region
Blues - paid to stand alone as a superclub and only wanted to represent Cardiff, but with the WRU closing the Celtic Warriors the WRU increased the representive area against the Blues wishes, they did have rival neighbours and the WRU forced marriage was never going to be a happy one.
Verdict Superclub (with extra unwanted representive area pushed onto them)

Ospreys - started with a brand new history in 2003 and while the clubs of the region have had fallings out are a region
Verdict Region

Dragons - is a difficut one, pushed to keep Newport in the name as were worried they may alienate the majority of their potentional fanbase without it, which makes since at the start. but while Llanelli and Neath-Swansea have been dropped by other team the Dragons have stuck with having the Newport. However are similar to the Scarlets is other respects as they have evolved into a region working with other clubs in thier area, and apart from the Newport in the name the kit and history have been changed so I would say are more regional than Scarlets.
Verdit - region - but still loose ties to Newport for fear of alienating fans.

Also the WRU helping them out financialy early doors played a part in them becomming a region.

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I find it very funny, that the only people who see the regions as clubs are the old Newport RFC and Cardiff RFC supporters, anyway, I look at the regions for what they are supposed to be "REGIONS" if you want to support Cardiff or Newport you can, they play in the Welsh prem.

You get very 'right on' regarding regions embracing all and sundry disenfranchised dabs, as the panacea for all Welsh Rugby's ills. Seems strange you can't appreciate that the old club supporters might get a bit miffed that they can't watch their club play in the top flight anymore, because they now have to change to represent the club down the road who a) can't sustain it economically, b) don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting there off their own back, and c) won't support the new entity either way.  All on the basis of an unproven reasoning that may or may not be the best way for them to succeed as a professional outfit.

It works both ways Stone, I had my "Region" taken away from me and was told to get behind another region, but instead of all the chest thumping I just thought I would try and give my support to all the regions that were left, it is fans like you who keep the disenfranchised fans away from supporting the region with your harping on about how it is still the same club as it always was. Things are changing, people are becoming more open minded about the teams they support, the old bitterness is fading amongst the disenfranchised fans, now it is only parochial and insular fans like you who are holding things back.

1. You did not have your region 'taken' away, it could not support a pro rugby team in it's own right
2. How the f am I insular and harping on about it being the same club? Reality is reality, they are both funded by Rodney Parade Ltd with no input from anyone else. Recognising that doesn't stop me shouting 'Dragons' at home matches.
3. The only parochial and insular one is you, for thinking pro rugby owes you something and that there is no other way for the professional teams in Wales to succeed but for some arbitrary dictat to attempt to be all things to all men who won't support them anyway. It ain't me singing 'I will never be a Blue' whilst 7 players paid for by the Blues help Ponty win qualification to the B&I Cup is it?