Aviva Premiership Round Two

First topic message reminder :

Well round one is done, and the Aviva Premiership is most definitely back.  With over 300 points scored, 34 tries and 3 hat tricks, it was an exciting weekends rugby, that began on Friday night with Saints putting 50+ points on Gloucester, and finished on Sunday afternoon with the Chiefs doing the same to hapless London Welsh.  Sandwiched in between Bath got themselves up and running with a win on the road at Sale, and Tigers completed a comprehensive victory over the Falcons at Welford Road.  At Twickenham, the first game f the double header was great spectacle and fantastic advert for the league, with Saracens edging out Wasps courtesy of a late try.  This was followed by Quins proving to strong for a London Irish team who simply failed to turn up until half time, by which time the game had gone.


With regard predictions, I got 4 from 6 right on here, having tipped my own boys to beat Quins, and Gloucester to nick it at The Gardens.  By the time I did my Superbru predictions and put my accumulator on, I'd gone for Saints, so was 5 from 6 elsewhere, but I'm clearly not going to get rich this way unless London Irish start winning a bit more often!  Anyway, here's the table of round one of the action:

	Pos	Team	P	W	D	L	F	A	Diff	TF	TA	TBP	LBP	PTS
	1.	Exeter Chiefs	1	1	0	0	52	0	+52	7	0	1	0	5
	2.	Northampton Saints	1	1	0	0	53	6	+47	8	0	1	0	5
	3.	Leicester Tigers	1	1	0	0	36	17	+19	4	2	1	0	5
	4.	Saracens	1	1	0	0	34	28	+6	4	3	1	0	5
	5.	Bath Rugby	1	1	0	0	29	20	+9	2	2	0	0	4
	6.	Harlequins	1	1	0	0	20	15	+5	2	0	0	0	4
	7.	London Irish	1	0	0	1	15	20	-5	0	2	0	1	1
	8.	Wasps	1	0	0	1	28	34	-6	3	4	0	1	1
	9.	Sale Sharks	1	0	0	1	20	29	-9	2	2	0	0	0
	10.	Newcastle Falcons	1	0	0	1	17	36	-19	2	4	0	0	0
	11.	Gloucester	1	0	0	1	6	53	-47	0	8	0	0	0
	12.	London Welsh	1	0	0	1	0	52	-52	0	7	0	0	0

So on to this weeks fixtures, and here they are:

Friday 12th September 2014   19:45   Harlequins vs. Saracens

Two of last seasons top 4 go head to head in an early season clash of the big guns.  Both won last week, although neither were wholly convincing and have room for improvement.  Quins look very strong defensively, whilst Saracens look to have a real cutting edge in attack, which seems strange to say as I would imagine the perception of both sides would be the other way round.  Both will be fired up and wanting to lay down a marker in this one, and I expect a fiercely competitive contest, which Quins just sneak, sending Saracens home with just the losing bonus point.


Saturday 13th September 2014   15:00   Bath Rugby vs. London Welsh

It certainly doesn't get any easier for London Welsh does it.  Bath, to the surprise of their own fans on here I would imagine, managed to come back from Sale with 4 points in the bag, and should really extend their total to nine points with a big victory in this one.  Welsh, unsurprisingly for a team with 25 new players looked all over the place defensively on Sunday, and will need to improve very quickly if they are to avoid more thumpings by a similar scoreline this season.  Pride I suspect will keep it closer this weekend, but I don't see them getting anywhere near Bath this time out.


Saturday 13th September 2014   15:00   Gloucester vs. Sale Sharks

Two teams who lost in the opening round, one at home, and one in spectacular fashion on the road.  Both will want to put things right this weekend, and Gloucester will take comfort in being back in familiar surroundings at Kingsholm.  Sale will be undaunted by the atmosphere there though, having won there last season, and I would imagine the players will be keen to not incur the wrath of Steve Diamond, which is the likely outcome if they lose two on the bounce.  David Humphreys doesn't strike me as putting the same fear into his players, but you have to think that guys like Richard Hibbard, John Afoa and James Hook will all step up a gear of their own accord this weekend.  This is a really tough call, but I can see a wounded Gloucester side sneaking this at home and Sale heading back North with a losing bonus point.


Saturday 13th September 2014   15:15   Exeter Chiefs vs. Leicester Tigers

Now if you asked me last week to predict this one I had it down as an away banker.  The Chiefs I felt had not recruited particuarly well in the summer, but their win against London Welsh will have given them massive confidence ahead of hosting the Tigers this week.  I've not seen the Tigers game, but understand from others who have that they weren't at their very best, but were clinical enough to put away a spirited Falcons side.  The Chiefs will be solid and difficult to play against and Leicester will need to up their game slightly to win here I feel, but I think they will, and will head back to the East Midlands with 4 points in the bag.


Sunday 14th September 2014   14:00   Wasps vs. Northampton Saints

This could be a cracker.  I need say nothing about Saints really, as we all saw the power they have and the finishing ability to match on Friday night.  Wasps were excellent in spells against Saracens, with back row forwards Nathan Hughes and Ashley Johnson particularly outstanding, but once again failed to put in a full 80 minute performance.  They will have to manage that against the Saints, as you cannot give them anything or they will run right over you.  I'm putting this one down as the game of the round, with Saints to just edge out Wasps in an 8 or 9 try thriller which sees the home side pick up a try bonus point to go with their losing one.


Sunday 14th September 2014   15:00   Newcastle Falcons vs. London Irish

Two teams who need to win, it's that simple.  Falcons possibly didn't expect to get anything at Welford Road, but will be targeting this one big time for a win.  Irish conversely probably expected to beat Quins on Saturday, but came up short, and will know that they need this with Sarries, Saints and Tigers next up for them in the fixture list.  Whilst I would like to think that on Falcons new shiny 4G pitch this will be a fast and loose throwaround of a game, I suspect it will be a nervous, cagey arm wrestle with very little to wrote home about in terms of exciting play.  It will be tight, but I fancy is to nick it and head home with our first league win of the season under our belts.


Ozzy's predicted table after round two:

Northampton Saints 10, Bath Rugby 9, Leicester Tigers 9, Harlequins 8, Exeter Chiefs 6, Saracens 6, London Irish 5, Gloucester 4, Wasps 3, Sale Sharks 1, Newcastle Falcons 1, London Welsh 0.

North was marginal but surely it was still offside as Dickson was definitely offside and continued to run forwards?

Wasps will definitely be fancying their chances against Quins now. Quins took a battering in all aspects - must be at least some injury doubt for next week. Wasps will be on a high after going toe to toe with arguably the two strongest sides in the AP.

Huge game for both.

beshocked,
From London maybe, but I know of another team from the Midlands who will give you a run for your money
Brain fart for moment thinking about Quins & yourself

Great win by Wasps this afternoon & 2 good solid consecutive performances bode well.
Enjoyed the company of the Saints fans to always a credit to the club.

broadlandboy wrote:beshocked,
From London maybe, but I know of another team from the Midlands who will give you a run for your money
Brain fart for moment thinking about Quins & yourself

I don't think beshocked was snubbing Leicester. He was just pointing out that Wasps will fancy their chances against Quins now that they have beaten Saints - last year's champions - and pushed Saracens - the other finalist - hard.

Well that's another cracking round of rugby over and done with.  I will try to get this weeks match thread up later tonight as I have a busy day ahead, but realistically it may be tomorrow morning before I am able to do it.

So based on form over two rounds, which isn't a lot to go on, here is my predicted final table;-

1. Saracens 2. Leicester Tigers 3. Northampton Saints 4. Bath Rugby 5. London Wasps 6. Harlequins 7. Exeter Chiefs 8. London Irish 9. Gloucester 10. Sale Sharks 11. Newcastle Falcons 12. London Welsh

(7-10 for me could finish in any order really).

LondonTiger wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Slade really impressing in the centres

Hill impressed me more. (Manu was carp today I must admit)


Exeter will rue their lineout woes.

A close game between two good sides. I think Exeter could have won, but their decision to go for the corner on at least two kickable occasions cost them. Okay, one did result in a try when Tigers down to 14, but there were other instances, not much that needs fixing at Sandy Park though. Not many teams are going to go there and get a result this year.

Well done Wasps, and London Irish. I would congratulate Sarries, but I just can't! - oh go on then. Well done Sarries, a great clinical display, controlled and accurate.

Ozzy3213 wrote:So based on form over two rounds, which isn't a lot to go on, here is my predicted final table;-

1. Saracens 2. Leicester Tigers 3. Northampton Saints 4. Bath Rugby 5. London Wasps 6. Harlequins 7. Exeter Chiefs 8. London Irish 9. Gloucester 10. Sale Sharks 11. Newcastle Falcons 12. London Welsh

(7-10 for me could finish in any order really).

Can't see Sale finishing 10th or Irish getting anywhere near 8th.

1. Sarries
2. Tigeers
3. Saints
4. Bath
5. Quins
6. Wasps
7. Chiefs
8. Glos
9. Sale
10. Irish
11. Falcons
12. Welsh

Bathite wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:So based on form over two rounds, which isn't a lot to go on, here is my predicted final table;-

1. Saracens 2. Leicester Tigers 3. Northampton Saints 4. Bath Rugby 5. London Wasps 6. Harlequins 7. Exeter Chiefs 8. London Irish 9. Gloucester 10. Sale Sharks 11. Newcastle Falcons 12. London Welsh

(7-10 for me could finish in any order really).

Can't see Sale finishing 10th or Irish getting anywhere near 8th.

1. Sarries
2. Tigeers
3. Saints
4. Bath
5. Quins
6. Wasps
7. Chiefs
8. Glos
9. Sale
10. Irish
11. Falcons
12. Welsh

11th and 12th looked nailed on, in that order - even at this early stage. I would expect Glaws to finish above Irish quite comfortably. Wasps may even pip Quins if they continue to show the determination they showed at the weekend.

Glaws I think will still have ups and downs.  I think they showed that in the game with Sale.  They were decidedly ropey first half, then inspired in the second.  It'll be an interesting watch with them.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Glaws I think will still have ups and downs.  I think they showed that in the game with Sale.  They were decidedly ropey first half, then inspired in the second.  It'll be an interesting watch with them.

There have been some interesting matches in the opening 2 weekends. LI pushing Quins close should in hindsight have been prophetic, but I don't think anyone expected them to get walloped by 39 points in their own backyard. Glaws loss to Saints was massive, but then look at saints, travel to Wasps and be outplayed. Both Quins and Saints have imploded in the space of two weeks. Saracens, Bath and Tigers have at least been consistent, but its hard to guage Bath's true performance as although they did well at sale, it wasn't convincing and they played London Welsh this weekend, who everybody are going to take 5 points from this year. So, its been erratic and if the season continues to follow the same pattern, might make for an interesting table. On the other hand, I expect that despite irregularities, the top four will be Sarries, Tigers, Saints and probably Bath.

I agree Jimpy, that will be the top 4 as they are likely to be the most consistent through the season.  Everyone else will have ups and downs I reckon, with Wasps for me looking at this stage the best equipped of the pack to have a go at breaking into that top 4.

I couldn't get to the Wasps game but, according to most reports I have read (even the Wasps match report), Saints dominated territory and possession; especially in the first half.

It would appear that we are  much better defensively so far. It was the thing that pleased Dai Young most about yesterday.

And letting Sarries in for a last minute try peed him off no end last week.

Still, it's early days and I'm happy that Wasps have garnered five points against last season's finallists.

Good luck in round 3 all.

Jimpy wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Glaws I think will still have ups and downs.  I think they showed that in the game with Sale.  They were decidedly ropey first half, then inspired in the second.  It'll be an interesting watch with them.

There have been some interesting matches in the opening 2 weekends. LI pushing Quins close should in hindsight have been prophetic, but I don't think anyone expected them to get walloped by 39 points in their own backyard. Glaws loss to Saints was massive, but then look at saints, travel to Wasps and be outplayed. Both Quins and Saints have imploded in the space of two weeks. Saracens, Bath and Tigers have at least been consistent, but its hard to guage Bath's true performance as although they did well at sale, it wasn't convincing and they played London Welsh this weekend, who everybody are going to take 5 points from this year. So, its been erratic and if the season continues to follow the same pattern, might make for an interesting table. On the other hand, I expect that despite irregularities, the top four will be Sarries, Tigers, Saints and probably Bath.

I'm not sure they won't get better in time - I think the teams playing them early in the season have an advantage ...

Welsh will undoubtedly tighten up as the season goes on.  Those facing them in the first six rounds have a definite advantage.

Jimpy I think it's a bit unfair to say Quins and Saints imploded - doesn't seem to give enough credit to the teams that won. Saints were obviously a bit flattered by Gloucester - the warning signs were there as Wasps pushed Saracens all the way.

Quins struggled to put away a limited London Irish side, taking on Saracens, a side who they have psychological problems with was never going to easy.

I confidently said Saracens would win because Quins just don't know how to counteract them effectively -the margin was surprising but not the result.

I think the whole mental aspect is sometimes played down in rugby - teams do suffer from overconfidence,lack of it, mental baggage etc. When you go behind, heads can drop, more mistakes creep in as you try to chase the game and so on.


Bathite I have to agree with the look of that table.

Been very impressed by Wasps as I have already said. Strength in depth might be an issue throughout the season but it's a confident start.

I believe that if Quins want to retain their place in the top 4 - they'll need to rediscover their attacking mojo - something that diminished a bit last season. They've got the players - just need to execute properly.

As for Bath - we'll see where they stand when they take on the big three in consecutive matches.

Welsh aren't going to do a Rotherham I don't think, their defensive systems will improve as the weather comes in and after the European break they will be a tougher proposition.

I hope for the sake of the league (I don't like having one real whipping boy) that they manage to pick up a few BP's before then so at least they aren't too far adrift.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Welsh will undoubtedly tighten up as the season goes on.  Those facing them in the first six rounds have a definite advantage.

Yes unfortunately we don't play them until round 11

Bathman_in_London wrote:Welsh aren't going to do a Rotherham I don't think, their defensive systems will improve as the weather comes in and after the European break they will be a tougher proposition.

I hope for the sake of the league (I don't like having one real whipping boy) that they manage to pick up a few BP's before then so at least they aren't too far adrift.

Even if they do improve, its a tough league this year, everybody has moved it up a gear (well some have), (you sense). They will almost certainly be relegated because Flacons will probably do enough to squeak home, and nobody else is that poor.

Heaf wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Welsh will undoubtedly tighten up as the season goes on.  Those facing them in the first six rounds have a definite advantage.

Yes unfortunately we don't play them until round 11

I expect that London Welsh will be softened up for you in round 10.

Jimpy wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:Welsh aren't going to do a Rotherham I don't think, their defensive systems will improve as the weather comes in and after the European break they will be a tougher proposition.

I hope for the sake of the league (I don't like having one real whipping boy) that they manage to pick up a few BP's before then so at least they aren't too far adrift.

Even if they do improve, its a tough league this year, everybody has moved it up a gear (well some have),  (you sense). They will almost certainly be relegated because Flacons will probably do enough to squeak home, and nobody else is that poor.

Falcons showed some decent moments yesterday and I think will turn over some of the mid table sides at home, and could also with a bit a of luck bag the scalp of one of the big sides.  Strangely I thought Deano got selection and a couple of managerial decisions wrong.  I know Pooly doesn't agree, but Cato looked barely Premiership standard and appears to have regressed dramatically from when he broke through at Saracens.  They looked far more dangerous when Tuilagi was brought on.  Likewise Barrow was excellent off the bench, but I couldn't understand why Deano brought him on for Furno, who was everywhere, when the other lock Green was virtually anonymous.  Also, at the point where Socino was 1 from 4 or 5 off the tee, why not have Godman take over the kicking.  Socino was an attacking threat for Falcons, but possibly because of his woes off the tee, looked in the final quarter as if he was trying too hard to win the game on his own.  If Godman had taken over the kicking he might not have got to that point and could have been a more dangerous weapon for them.

What they will need to do, especially as winter hits, is sort out their scrum, which was absolutely terrible.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:Welsh aren't going to do a Rotherham I don't think, their defensive systems will improve as the weather comes in and after the European break they will be a tougher proposition.

I hope for the sake of the league (I don't like having one real whipping boy) that they manage to pick up a few BP's before then so at least they aren't too far adrift.

Even if they do improve, its a tough league this year, everybody has moved it up a gear (well some have),  (you sense). They will almost certainly be relegated because Flacons will probably do enough to squeak home, and nobody else is that poor.

Falcons showed some decent moments yesterday and I think will turn over some of the mid table sides at home, and could also with a bit a of luck bag the scalp of one of the big sides.  Strangely I thought Deano got selection and a couple of managerial decisions wrong.  I know Pooly doesn't agree, but Cato looked barely Premiership standard and appears to have regressed dramatically from when he broke through at Saracens.  They looked far more dangerous when Tuilagi was brought on.  Likewise Barrow was excellent off the bench, but I couldn't understand why Deano brought him on for Furno, who was everywhere, when the other lock Green was virtually anonymous.  Also, at the point where Socino was 1 from 4 or 5 off the tee, why not have Godman take over the kicking.  Socino was an attacking threat for Falcons, but possibly because of his woes off the tee, looked in the final quarter as if he was trying too hard to win the game on his own.  If Godman had taken over the kicking he might not have got to that point and could have been a more dangerous weapon for them.

What they will need to do, especially as winter hits, is sort out their scrum, which was absolutely terrible.

And yet when i suggested that they might take some scalps if they sorted their scrum out, i was told that I was a WUM and that their scrum was fine. I was also roundly put down when i suggested they had kicking issues - and so it proved to be. Its interesting that you say Godman should have taken over the kicking, but during the match, a certain Falcon's supporter said he should be taken off as he was awful. Combine that with some quite bizzarre selection and substitution decisions and you have a team who are going to struggle. You just can't look at the teams from 1 to 10 and see anybody who will struggle as much.

Godman was actually alright for them to be honest.  He's never going to set the world alight, but he marshalled them well and got them into some decent attacking positions.  Not withstanding the kicking issue yesterday, Falcons major problems were the scrum and breakdown, two areas where we had substantial dominance.

I said this at the start of last season and got shot down, but I am not sure that Dean Richards is actually the man for the job there.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Godman was actually alright for them to be honest.  He's never going to set the world alight, but he marshalled them well and got them into some decent attacking positions.  Not withstanding the kicking issue yesterday, Falcons major problems were the scrum and breakdown, two areas where we had substantial dominance.

I said this at the start of last season and got shot down, but I am not sure that Dean Richards is actually the man for the job there.

I assume the St Paddy's day fixture will be against Falcons this year? What is the fixture date exactly?

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:Welsh aren't going to do a Rotherham I don't think, their defensive systems will improve as the weather comes in and after the European break they will be a tougher proposition.

I hope for the sake of the league (I don't like having one real whipping boy) that they manage to pick up a few BP's before then so at least they aren't too far adrift.

Even if they do improve, its a tough league this year, everybody has moved it up a gear (well some have),  (you sense). They will almost certainly be relegated because Flacons will probably do enough to squeak home, and nobody else is that poor.

Falcons showed some decent moments yesterday and I think will turn over some of the mid table sides at home, and could also with a bit a of luck bag the scalp of one of the big sides.  Strangely I thought Deano got selection and a couple of managerial decisions wrong.  I know Pooly doesn't agree, but Cato looked barely Premiership standard and appears to have regressed dramatically from when he broke through at Saracens.  They looked far more dangerous when Tuilagi was brought on.  Likewise Barrow was excellent off the bench, but I couldn't understand why Deano brought him on for Furno, who was everywhere, when the other lock Green was virtually anonymous.  Also, at the point where Socino was 1 from 4 or 5 off the tee, why not have Godman take over the kicking.  Socino was an attacking threat for Falcons, but possibly because of his woes off the tee, looked in the final quarter as if he was trying too hard to win the game on his own.  If Godman had taken over the kicking he might not have got to that point and could have been a more dangerous weapon for them.

What they will need to do, especially as winter hits, is sort out their scrum, which was absolutely terrible.

Cato is decent standard AP winger, I watched him over last season and he without doubt better than the two you had on show yesterday. Cato would do a job for most bottom half sides, he has no real weakness and is a decent finisher/stepper. I'm happy with him as a squad player.

Green gets through the hard graft more than Furno and Barrow. Barrow is carrying a bit of a niggle but could start, Green is the better scrummager also. Green played well yesterday but this is hard to pick from a feed, he done the hard work I'd expect of a 4.

Godman was clueless in the opposition 22, he's an awful 10 and was poor yesterday. He has one move where he plays the most obvious reverse pack I've ever seen, he so far from AP standard it untrue.

Scrum went better than I thought it would yesterday, we got pinged a few times but I thought we'd be marched back. It was our 2nd choice propping unit so to be expected against a decent unit, we could do with a new LH though.

Saturday 28th March 2014 for the St Paddy's Day Party game.

No disrespect to Falcons but I wish it was someone else we were playing, as I doubt there will be many Falcons fans attending and the craic with the away fans is one of the great things about the day.  The best one in recent memory was against the Chiefs in their first season in the Premiership.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Saturday 28th March 2014 for the St Paddy's Day Party game.

No disrespect to Falcons but I wish it was someone else we were playing, as I doubt there will be many Falcons fans attending and the craic with the away fans is one of the great things about the day.  The best one in recent memory was against the Chiefs in their first season in the Premiership.

Yeah, we go every year. The atmosphere is superb. Great hosts.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Godman was actually alright for them to be honest.  He's never going to set the world alight, but he marshalled them well and got them into some decent attacking positions.  Not withstanding the kicking issue yesterday, Falcons major problems were the scrum and breakdown, two areas where we had substantial dominance.

I said this at the start of last season and got shot down, but I am not sure that Dean Richards is actually the man for the job there.

Falcons fans have had their concerns about Deano since the Championship season. His style of play seems out of date and we've not adjusted well to the breakdown.

The attack has without doubt picked up this season and I think he's made some good signings. The main concerns of no quality LH and 10 still linger though. I'll re-judge him in 10 or so games when we get a few of the injured players back.

I thought we were the better side yesterday but just left too many points on the park.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Godman was actually alright for them to be honest.  He's never going to set the world alight, but he marshalled them well and got them into some decent attacking positions.  Not withstanding the kicking issue yesterday, Falcons major problems were the scrum and breakdown, two areas where we had substantial dominance.

I said this at the start of last season and got shot down, but I am not sure that Dean Richards is actually the man for the job there.

Falcons fans have had their concerns about Deano since the Championship season. His style of play seems out of date and we've not adjusted well to the breakdown.

The attack has without doubt picked up this season and I think he's made some good signings. The main concerns of no quality LH and 10 still linger though. I'll re-judge him in 10 or so games when we get a few of the injured players back.

I thought we were the better side yesterday but just left too many points on the park.  

Are you Welsh?  Next you'll be claiming it as a moral victory! 

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Cato is decent standard AP winger, I watched him over last season and he without doubt better than the two you had on show yesterday. Cato would do a job for most bottom half sides, he has no real weakness and is a decent finisher/stepper. I'm happy with him as a squad player.

If you asked most Saracens fans who they rate higher out of Cato and James Short, I would be surprised if you had many that agreed with you on that. Happy to be proved wrong though.

It's been a while since Cato played at Saracens, he's improved a lot over the last season. I'm happy to agree to disagree, I wouldn't want Short at Falcons as a backup winger.

SirBurger wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Cato is decent standard AP winger, I watched him over last season and he without doubt better than the two you had on show yesterday. Cato would do a job for most bottom half sides, he has no real weakness and is a decent finisher/stepper. I'm happy with him as a squad player.

If you asked most Saracens fans who they rate higher out of Cato and James Short, I would be surprised if you had many that agreed with you on that. Happy to be proved wrong though.

Tough to say - both have their flaws. I would probably take Short over Cato though - it probably swings it that I thought he held his own vs Yarde in their most recent match. I didn't see Newcastle vs LI so I can't comment on that particular game. Also Short was also always be more popular for this and this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MslWzc6nNCM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJq1LeJSbeo

Short is also an excellent 7s player.

When Welsh were here last they lost their opening 2 games resoundingly to Tigers and Quins and then went on to win their next 2 games, seemingly out of nowhere. Interestingly one of those 2 victories was away to Sale who they play next. Welsh will improve and I'm sure they will snatch a few wins, the big question will be whether Falcons are capable of winning more?

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Godman was actually alright for them to be honest.  He's never going to set the world alight, but he marshalled them well and got them into some decent attacking positions.  Not withstanding the kicking issue yesterday, Falcons major problems were the scrum and breakdown, two areas where we had substantial dominance.

I said this at the start of last season and got shot down, but I am not sure that Dean Richards is actually the man for the job there.

Falcons fans have had their concerns about Deano since the Championship season. His style of play seems out of date and we've not adjusted well to the breakdown.

The attack has without doubt picked up this season and I think he's made some good signings. The main concerns of no quality LH and 10 still linger though. I'll re-judge him in 10 or so games when we get a few of the injured players back.

I thought we were the better side yesterday but just left too many points on the park.  

Are you Welsh?  Next you'll be claiming it as a moral victory! 

I agree with Sgt though Ozzy. We were poor but we still should have won that game (6 missed kicks from a very prolific kicker)....but that was the story last season aswell. And "should have" means nothing to the table.

As for Godman yes i slated him yesterday when he actually wasnt as bad as he has been...but he is still no better than a championship FH.

Personally i dont buy the "Falcns are guarenteed second bottom" talk. Sort out the kicking, get Socino to 10, get a couple of the selection issues right and we'll get some victories...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's been a while since Cato played at Saracens, he's improved a lot over the last season. I'm happy to agree to disagree, I wouldn't want Short at Falcons as a backup winger.

Aye - think it is probably one of those situations where fans are going to opt for the player already at the club. Not as clear cut as a Paice v Lawson situation for instance ...

Lawson is just a stop gap whilst McGuigan gets his throwing sorted Burger.

Cato is a waste of space. Kibirige is better, Brown is better, Alex T and Penny...will alll be ahead of him. Add in Alex Tait when he recovers aswell.

Again I prefer Lawson, I didn't even know Paice was playing yesterday until he fluffed a throw.

You can still be the better side and lose, it was 18-20 not 10-40. Irish did a smash and grab. They were not the better side but they made the most of the opportunities that came along and took the win, fair play to them. We'll play worse this season and win.

Was just a joke SP - Paice had a very poor game by his standards yesterday.

I am sure you're right and the wins will come in situations where you play worse than that.

Falcons need to win a game. They have forgotten that feeling.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Godman was actually alright for them to be honest.  He's never going to set the world alight, but he marshalled them well and got them into some decent attacking positions.  Not withstanding the kicking issue yesterday, Falcons major problems were the scrum and breakdown, two areas where we had substantial dominance.

I said this at the start of last season and got shot down, but I am not sure that Dean Richards is actually the man for the job there.

Falcons fans have had their concerns about Deano since the Championship season. His style of play seems out of date and we've not adjusted well to the breakdown.

The attack has without doubt picked up this season and I think he's made some good signings. The main concerns of no quality LH and 10 still linger though. I'll re-judge him in 10 or so games when we get a few of the injured players back.

I thought we were the better side yesterday but just left too many points on the park.  

Are you Welsh?  Next you'll be claiming it as a moral victory! 

I agree with Sgt though Ozzy. We were poor but we still should have won that game (6 missed kicks from a very prolific kicker)....but that was the story last season aswell. And "should have" means nothing to the table.

As for Godman yes i slated him yesterday when he actually wasnt as bad as he has been...but he is still no better than a championship FH.

Personally i dont buy the "Falcns are guarenteed  second bottom" talk. Sort out the kicking, get Socino to 10, get a couple of the selection issues right and we'll get some victories...

The thing is though "should have" doesn't really come in to it. I've read loads here and elsewhere about if Socino nailed his kicks it would have been an easy win, but the bottom line is that he didn't, and actually had he made one of the them, the whole rest of the game pans out differently as the restart is different, so he may not even have had the other kicking opportunities. We could also argue that we "should have" had 2 more tries, when Short ran inside and ran into Godman on the 5 yard line rather than backing himself on the outside, and when Lewington fumbled when trying to offload two yards from the tryline. All of those arguments are of course pointless as the aim of the game is to score more points than the opposition, which we did. Our missed chances and your missed kicks are part of the game, so given that we scored more points than you, I am struggling to understand the logic behind Pooly's assessment that you were the 'better' side.

When two sides were only separated by 2 points it is quite easy to claim either were the best on the day.

Thats true LT...18 games.

But Dean needs to sort his selections out aswell. I honestly dont think in all of last season and on through this he has played the same side in consecutive games. Where on earth is the consistancy and familiarity going to come from.

Also pick the best players.

Barrow has been injured but is now fit...PLAY HIM and if he runs out of steam at 60 mins THEN bring Green on...not the other way round.

Dean really frustrates me...and too be honest i think John Wells coaching is dated. None of his teams are strong at the breakdown...both us nor England in his previous role.

You're whole argument has came down to missed opportunities costing both sides.

I didn't state if Socino had made his kicks we'd have won. I agree that if Socino had of made a few kicks then irish may have scored a try etc etc, the game pans out differently.

All I have said is that we were the better side on the day, that's hardly controversial. You've sat there watching a dodgy feed and made up an idea of the game. I'm not been funny but it's extremely hard to gauge a game by watching it on a internet feed.

I find it a little hard to take your opinion with any real seriousness when you're arguing with somebody at the game and you've watched the game this way. If this was on TV that would be a different story but I watch many a game via feeds and it's just not the same.

Ozzy

If you read my post again you'll see i put....However "should have " means absolutely nothing.

Im in agreeance with you.

Its just frustrating losing to a relegation rival at home.

The feed was fine Pooly, it was no different to watching the game on tv. Explain to me in what regard you were the better side?

Well I've never watched a feed that gets close to watching it on TV, never mind being at the game.

There's little point debating with you as you have your idea of how the sides performed from your internet feed and I have mine from attending the game.

The scoreline indicates it was a close game, is it that bizarre to suggest the home side may have performed better despite losing?

So what you mean is you can't tell me how you were better than us.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ozzy

If you read my post again you'll see i put....However "should have " means absolutely nothing.

Im in agreeance with you.

Its just frustrating losing to a relegation rival at home.

Probably most likey to be London Welsh though.

Ozzy3213 wrote:So what you mean is you can't tell me how you were better than us.

Frankly, a better side would have dominated the scrum, kicked the points on offer and not made baffling substitutions...