Union controlled rugby

First topic message reminder :

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/sexton-agreement-with-denis-o-brien-confirms-irfu-s-strategy-1.1929917

I thought the idea of Union controlled teams, central contracts and branches was that everything flowed under the Union. Why then, if this model is the model to follow, is there still a need for private investors to be paying for the best players to stay in a Union controlled nation?

Jonathan Sexton’s commercial agreement with Denis O’Brien, which played a significant role in bringing the Ireland outhalf back to Leinster next season, confirms the new IRFU strategy of keeping hold of their most precious commodities.

Basically, the provinces can now top up central contracts with private funding.

The first deal of this kind was brokered last January by Jamie Heaslip’s agent, Damien O’Donohoe of Ikon. This was allowed to avoid the loss of another marquee Irish player following Sexton signing for Racing Metro 92. Heaslip was able to spurn the advances of Toulon while maintaining his status as the highest-paid player in Irish rugby when Leinster chief executive Mick Dawson arranged for him to become a Bank of Ireland brand ambassador.

This saw Heaslip sell his image rights to secure a contract believed to be worth close to €600,000, presuming the number eight plays a certain number of games each season and achieves other targets, aligned to team success.

Approximately 10 per cent of Heaslip’s salary is funded by Leinster’s main sponsor

Cyril wrote:The danger is becoming reliant on this income and then being beholden to the provider.

Well that's true. He can take it away as quickly as he can give it, so it shouldn't be relied on in the long term.

What about my genius plan for fans to take a stake in provinces? Would be an interesting alternative to relying on one billionaire.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Cyril wrote:The danger is becoming reliant on this income and then being beholden to the provider.

Well that's true. He can take it away as quickly as he can give it, so it shouldn't be relied on in the long term.

What about my genius plan for fans to take a stake in provinces? Would be an interesting alternative to relying on one billionaire.

It's certainly been shown to work in plenty of other sports, German football (probably one of the best, sustainable sports models around) for example.

It neatly avoids the 'all the eggs in one basket' scenario and further integrates the sides with the fans (meaning they're likely to invest more and feel more a part of the proceedings). I imagine this already happens (to a limited extent) in rugby?

Good idea feckless. But anathema to the blazers at the IRFU I fear. They want control and power for that is what gives them status

Cyril wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:Denis O'Brien will have no say in how many games Sexton plays or where he plays or if he plays. That would be ridiculous. But if he wants to make a generous donation then the IRFU should take it. I don't know what his reasons are. Whether he's just a sports/rugby fan or because he thinks it will make people like him, who cares? The provinces should definitely accept financial support from any wealthy individuals who want to help.

I think you should care. It's not often someone 'donates' a lot of money without wanting something in return or a certain level of control. The danger is becoming reliant on this income and then being beholden to the provider.

More levels of interference and control mean more complications and potential conflicts of interest.

Sometimes things look too good to be true because they are. I would have thought the much lauded 'purity' of the Irish union-led system wouldn't want to contaminated by this type of agreement.

Or maybe you're just as greedy as the rest of us

Crickey, it happens all the time over here with the GAA. Have you not noticed that nice big stadium, Croke Park.

As far as the GAA knows, County Managers are not paid for instance. They get 'expenses'. Yet a small county like Westmeath could send a helicopter down to pick up Paidi O'Shea twice a week to coach the Westmeath team (the population of Westmeath is about 80K)!

Read about JP McMananus's local GAA here and its facilities http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-mcmanus-to-relaunch-gaa-club-in-style-29263800.html

sin e. that is professionalism in disguise. nothing to be proud of in your oh-so-proudly-amateur-GAA.

that is what tipped rugby into professionalism. they basically gave the rubber stamp to the under the table payments that had become so big it was impossible to ignore.

Well, the GAA have been doing it for years. The players don't want to be professionals.

By the way, I see 104K watched the Hurling in the UK on Sky compared to 59K watching the Aviva Rugby Prem. on the Sunday on BT.

yes why not compare hurling's grand final to the first weekend of regular AP league. do you think we are stupid?

quinsforever wrote:yes why not compare hurling's grand final to the first weekend of regular AP league. do you think we are stupid?

For its first season being broadcast by Sky in the UK it seems to be quite popular though, especially when it was also available on FTA channels and the net as well.

Did you watch by the way Quins?

PS - were people be not dying to watch rugby after a long break?

Yawn. Is that really the time?

Sin not surprised people in the UK liked hurling because let's be honest it's bloody brilliant. I think the yanks would love it. Not a hurling forum though.

There does seem to be a tradition in Ireland of wealthy fans donating money towards their team. I wonder does this happen in other countries? And is it true that McIlroy pays Peinaars wages by the way?

Feckless Rogue wrote:I was actually going to write a post about this sort of thing a while back before this had even come out. O'Brien paid half of Trapatonnis salary when he was manager of the soccer team. Some rich fella paid for spanking new medical facilities for Leinster in UCD I think. Doesn't Rory McIlroy donate money towards wages in Ulster?

No, I really don't think he does. Standard Irish rumour which gets half-way around the world before the truth can get its boots on. If I'm wrong then its been covered up in a way which is more competent than anything Ulster Rugby have done in many years. Do you know the sports press in Northern Ireland? They are kind of obsessed with Rory McIlroy. Rory McIlroy donating money to Ulster Rugby would be a BIG story in a small country.

Rory donates selfies to the Ulster dressing room.  The guys are getting uneasy about the number of them but they don't want to ruffle his love of them so they all go up.  
"This is me with me head in the shower"  
"This is it before the curls start to pop up again - half dry"  
"This is it before I put the cap on"  
"Now you know why I put the caps on"  
"This is my Nine Iron"  
"This is it from a different angle in the shade"

For a number of years the tax breaks that Irish players playing in Ireland enjoyed probably meant that they were pocketing more money than most players in Europe.

Now that some French clubs are able to trump that 'take home package' (and then some) will inevitably turn the heads of certain players.

As someone said, if you don't keep up with your competitors -  certainly in an investment sense - then you will be left behind.

Private sponsorship of players isn't new. Every time a player scores a try or kicks a goal the stadium announcer says "Try scored by Fred Bloggs, sponsored by Anyco Ltd."

Is this any different? Granted, it's a bit more public and high profile, but I assume no Irish/EU law or IRB regulations have been broken.

Hound of Harrow wrote:For a number of years the tax breaks that Irish players playing in Ireland enjoyed probably meant that they were pocketing more money than most players in Europe.

Now that some French clubs are able to trump that 'take home package' (and then some) will inevitably turn the heads of certain players.

As someone said, if you don't keep up with your competitors -  certainly in an investment sense - then you will be left behind.

Private sponsorship of players isn't new. Every time a player scores a try or kicks a goal the stadium announcer says "Try scored by Fred Bloggs, sponsored by Anyco Ltd."

Is this any different? Granted, it's a bit more public and high profile, but I assume no Irish/EU law or IRB regulations have been broken.

The difference is that those sponsored announcements are just that. Anyco Ltd have bought the right to have the announcer mention their name in match day announcements. This is potentially different if the business effectively own and control the player.

Exiled - I didn't read anything about this guy owning and controlling the player. Some speculation that Sexton may do some PR work for the company.

Players do promo work for their main sponsors, that's just part of the deal. This is just on an individual basis. So long as it doesn't interfere with the player's rugby commitments,  I don't see much wrong.

If this is a way for the other NH clubs/unions to stop the French clubs taking our best players then I'm ok with it.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Sin not surprised people in the UK liked hurling because let's be honest it's bloody brilliant. I think the yanks would love it. Not a hurling forum though.

There does seem to be a tradition in Ireland of wealthy fans donating money towards their team. I wonder does this happen in other countries? And is it true that McIlroy pays Peinaars wages by the way?

McIlroy probably doesn't even pay for his tickets or pints let alone finance players for Ulster. It is a widely believed urban legend of sorts but the curly locked, dimpled ball whacker does not pay for a single player.

Hound of Harrow wrote:Exiled - I didn't read anything about this guy owning and controlling the player. Some speculation that Sexton may do some PR work for the company.

Players do promo work for their main sponsors, that's just part of the deal. This is just on an individual basis. So long as it doesn't interfere with the player's rugby commitments,  I don't see much wrong.

If this is a way for the other NH clubs/unions to stop the French clubs taking our best players then I'm ok with it.

That's pretty much how I feel about this Hound, as long as it doesn't get completely out of control. Getting a bit of investment in order to keep the French wolves from the door is welcome and simply allows us poorer clubs to survive.

It has got to a point for me, in Wales, that I fear the regions having any world class players, and by world class I mean that they excel on the international stage, because as soon as they get these type's of players, the French and the richer English clubs start circling and trying to turn players heads, the regions will never compete, not until our own WRU do something about it, these dual contracts will go a long way though, it has even got to the point now where a club in the second tier of English rugby can offer more to our players than the regions can.

IRB Regulation 4.5.5 regarding player contracts...

"No Union, Rugby Body or Club shall enter in any written agreement
and/or arrangement of any kind that provides for and/or in any way
facilitates third party influence and/or control over a Player’s playing
relationship with his Union, Rugby Body or Club and/or his Registration."

this is why i think Dennis O'Brien should just be giving the money to the IRFU rather than have a 3rd party relationship with Sexton. Gets murky.

quinsforever wrote:IRB Regulation 4.5.5 regarding player contracts...

"No Union, Rugby Body or Club shall enter in any written agreement
and/or arrangement of any kind that provides for and/or in any way
facilitates third party influence and/or control over a Player’s playing
relationship with his Union, Rugby Body or Club and/or his Registration."

this is why i think Dennis O'Brien should just be giving the money to the IRFU rather than have a 3rd party relationship with Sexton. Gets murky.

How do you know who he is giving the money to?

Don't see what the fuss is about tbh. Did he exert any control over Trapitoni when paying half his wages?

Just means the player will be unlikely to publicly criticise DOB and will probably do a bit of corporate work and give the odd exclusive interview.

Much better than a "benefactor" buying a whole team and controlling it totally. Walking away when he gets bored and leaving them with over inflated fast sinking muck.

PRL/LNR started all this shyte and now their apologists have the nerve to complain because we find creative ways to keep up?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

quinsforever wrote:IRB Regulation 4.5.5 regarding player contracts...

"No Union, Rugby Body or Club shall enter in any written agreement
and/or arrangement of any kind that provides for and/or in any way
facilitates third party influence and/or control over a Player’s playing
relationship with his Union, Rugby Body or Club and/or his Registration."

this is why i think Dennis O'Brien should just be giving the money to the IRFU rather than have a 3rd party relationship with Sexton. Gets murky.

How do you know who he is giving the money to?

Don't see what the fuss is about tbh. Did he exert any control over Trapitoni when paying half his wages?

Just means the player will be unlikely to publicly criticise DOB and will probably do a bit of corporate work and give the odd exclusive interview.

Much better than a "benefactor" buying a whole team and controlling it totally. Walking away when he gets bored and leaving them with over inflated fast sinking muck.

PRL/LNR started all this shyte and now their apologists have the nerve to complain because we find creative ways to keep up?

somebody got out of bed on the wrong side today.

i think you will find that the IRB "started all this shyte" when they voted to turn the game professional once they saw how much money could be made from the RWCs

if you cant see the dangers of individual player compensation being paid by benefactors (what do leinster team mates feel about their pay now? how do munster ulster fans feel about irfu organising this for sexton and leinster?) then fine, maybe they dont exist.

quinsforever wrote:
somebody got out of bed on the wrong side today.

did you? Poor lamb

quinsforever wrote:
i think you will find that the IRB "started all this shyte" when they voted to turn the game professional once they saw how much money could be made from the RWCs

Ah feck it. Lets go back to 1895 and blame Rugby League, while you're at it.

quinsforever wrote:
if you cant see the dangers of individual player compensation being paid by benefactors (what do leinster team mates feel about their pay now? how do munster ulster fans feel about irfu organising this for sexton and leinster?) then fine, maybe they dont exist.

Classic "divide and conquer" tactics. I like a man with an interest in history.

I'm sure the team mates are happy that they will have a better chance of silverware and possibly increased wages themselves. The other provinces will be happier that they can possibly hold on to their top players

As I said earlier. Much ado about feck all.

I'd assume Leinster players (on the basic industrial wage, don't you know ) will only be too happy for Sexton (highly overpaid slave to a billionaire sugar-daddy) back.  He's been paid the money because people feels he's the calibre of player who deserves it and who will be a central character to winning wishes of Leinster over the next number of seasons.

Better to be a player on less money with big game potential than a player on equal wages for all with no hopes.

Everything is relative and I don't think it would be a surprise for any of us to learn that most players know there is a heirarchy of 'worth' dependent on ability (both individual and strategically to a team).  Sexton gets paid top dollar because he has a top dollar reputation - other players realise that.  Indeed, it only pushes them to gain a similar reputation.

LordDowlais wrote:It has got to a point for me, in Wales, that I fear the regions having any world class players, and by world class I mean that they excel on the international stage, because as soon as they get these type's of players, the French and the richer English clubs start circling and trying to turn players heads, the regions will never compete, not until our own WRU do something about it, these dual contracts will go a long way though, it has even got to the point now where a club in the second tier of English rugby can offer more to our players than the regions can.

To be fair LD, the long running spat between the WRU and the Regions created a vacuum where players were worried that they wouldn't have a contract in Wales. Or at least a contract that remunerated them sufficiently.

Several upped and went to to France and England for the security factor as much as anything else.

When a union has a relatively small professional player pool to select frim it becomes more important to retain influence over their players. This ensures that they are available for training camps and that they are not overplayed.

The WRU lost sight of this imo, with the consequence being players have left Wales.

Whereas the IRFU (and Leinster) are looking at innovative initiatives like this to keep players.  Or in this case bringing a player back to Ireland.

quinsforever wrote:IRB Regulation 4.5.5 regarding player contracts...

"No Union, Rugby Body or Club shall enter in any written agreement
and/or arrangement of any kind that provides for and/or in any way
facilitates third party influence and/or control over a Player’s playing
relationship with his Union, Rugby Body or Club and/or his Registration."

this is why i think Dennis O'Brien should just be giving the money to the IRFU rather than have a 3rd party relationship with Sexton. Gets murky.

So Denis O'brien signs an agreement not to have do anything to affect the relationship with IRFU, his Province or his Registration.

As I've stated earlier - O'Brien has had nothing to do with Trapatoni/Martin O'Neill/Roy Keane. I'm not too sure whether he has actually met them.

A lot of the players have private commercial dealings that has nothing to do with the IRFU with the likes of Adidas etc.

I really don't see what the problem is with the principal of this?

God................ Denis O'Brien 'hired' Tappatoni. In that he put up the extra cash that the little divil wanted to come to Ireland.  
Trap came, he certainly did his own thing, he didn't do many things all that well, O'Brien had nothing to do with him and.................. well, O'Brien is just a man of money who might simply be also quite patriotic and teary eyed whenever Ireland do well in something (which ain't that often).  

O'Brien wants to give something back, has more than enough money to do so - the money (for Sexton) itself isn't enough for him to remotely NEED something-in-return.  He gives it I'm sure to help Ireland win - that would be the pay-back; going to a game and seeing us win.

I'd personally stop him doing it post Sexton (for any sport), and wouldn't be for it simply because it's probably even a little bit............... well, it's just a little embarrassing that this private man keeps offering pay-the-man money for sporting stars.  He needs to find a new pastime, a new hobby; and if the IRFU need to find even more creative ways of finding more orthodox ways of finding pay-the-man money then perhaps that would be the better route.

Sexton is only one player. Unlike a coach, one player will only get us so far - we don't want to have O'Brien paying for the whole Irish team.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/is-there-no-end-to-denis-o-brien-s-intervention-in-irish-sport-1.1932645?page=2

Hound of Harrow wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It has got to a point for me, in Wales, that I fear the regions having any world class players, and by world class I mean that they excel on the international stage, because as soon as they get these type's of players, the French and the richer English clubs start circling and trying to turn players heads, the regions will never compete, not until our own WRU do something about it, these dual contracts will go a long way though, it has even got to the point now where a club in the second tier of English rugby can offer more to our players than the regions can.

To be fair LD, the long running spat between the WRU and the Regions created a vacuum where players were worried that they wouldn't have a contract in Wales. Or at least a contract that remunerated them sufficiently.

Several upped and went to to France and England for the security factor as much as anything else.

When a union has a relatively small professional player pool to select frim it becomes more important to retain influence over their players. This ensures that they are available for training camps and that they are not overplayed.

The WRU lost sight of this imo, with the consequence being players have left Wales.

Whereas the IRFU (and Leinster) are looking at innovative initiatives like this to keep players.  Or in this case bringing a player back to Ireland.

Hound it has been happeneing for years now, George North to Northampton, Paul James to Bath, Owain Williams to Leicester, Dwayne Peel to Sale, I could go on, the regions cannot compete with the English or French clubs and as soon as we have a good un, you lot, and the French come sniffing.

Actually...thinking about it all...........I've changed my mind.  I want O'Brien to go on a Grannyified Qualified hunting spree in New Zealand - and sharpish!  We want a full Irishified, highly paid New Zealand squad up and running by at least the last game of the 6N!
Get on the plane O'Brien - and don't forget the American Express card.

Secrtefly wrote:Trap came, he certainly did his own thing, he didn't do many things all that well

Other than take a group of extremely ordinary players, none World Class, most barely international class and almost qualify for a WC and actually qualify for the EC.

Unfortunately when you actually qualify for these finals you will almost always get found out by teams who are vastly superior than you.

I thought Trap was a genius to achieve as much as he did which such a bunch of journeymen.

To listen to some people you'd think we were ranked in the top 10 whereas we're not even in the top 60.

SecretFly wrote:Actually...thinking about it all...........I've changed my mind.  I want O'Brien to go on a Grannyified Qualified hunting spree in New Zealand - and sharpish!  We want a full Irishified, highly paid New Zealand squad up and running by at least the last game of the 6N!
Get on the plane O'Brien - and don't forget the American Express card.

Some places don't accept those, he had better have a suitcase too...

He'll have his own private jet acting as the suitcase.  Oh I'm ever so confident we'll pull this stunt off now.. Go for it, Denis - the force is with you!

MunsterMac wrote:

Secrtefly wrote:Trap came, he certainly did his own thing, he didn't do many things all that well

Other than take a group of extremely ordinary players, none World Class, most barely international class and almost qualify for a WC and actually qualify for the EC.

Unfortunately when you actually qualify for these finals you will almost always get found out by teams who are vastly superior than you.

I thought Trap was a genius to achieve as much as he did which such a bunch of journeymen.

To listen to some people you'd think we were ranked in the top 10 whereas we're not even in the top 60.

Grand...he made a shyte team more perfectly technical shyte.  Grand.  The world noticed our ascent...it was spoken about at the UN.  They even designed war plans to contain us if we got too big for our boots!

I liked Trap as a man...loved his twinkle and sparkle.  Charisma and fun in interviews - yes.  As a coach, designing football that looked like football....no.  Yes, constrained by the raw materials in his possession - but also the raw materials contrained by shytetactics.

I feel sorry for O'Brien, holed up in some apartment in Malta while his family lives here. What good is all his money to him? He made one big mistake in his career that will mean he will never be loved in Ireland (apart from Leinster fans) for whatever he does.

edit: photos of POC & Jerry Flannery with JP McManus this week from Limerick I think JP had POC launch something for his Limerick Foundation. POC had JP at his wedding in France last year.

JP paying POC is the only conclusion Sin

Sin é wrote:photos of POC & Jerry Flannery with JP McManus this week from Limerick I think JP had POC launch something for his Limerick Foundation. POC had JP at his wedding in France last year.

You have a very 'excited housewife with new issue of Heat magazine' attitude to rugby. I bet you know all the Munster players' star signs and favourite colours

that's the family atmosphere of Munster rugby, Cyril. All the love, all the hate, all the fights about your brother wearing your jeans, all the weddings and pics and christenings.

It's all real. Munster is a family. Sin has a facebook family connection to his team.

Now.............. I must go get my hair done.... I have a darts date tonight with me mates, Kearney, Healy and Darcy

Sin é wrote:I feel sorry for O'Brien, holed up in some apartment in Malta while his family lives here. What good is all his money to him? He made one big mistake in his career that will mean he will never be loved in Ireland (apart from Leinster fans) for whatever he does.

edit: photos of POC & Jerry Flannery with JP McManus this week from Limerick I think JP had POC launch something for his Limerick Foundation. POC had JP at his wedding in France last year.

Isn't that one 'big mistake' the reason he is super rich... hard to feel too sympathetic.

Don't have much time for O'Brien - but in fairness he didn't seem to interfere with the soccer team when he was funding Trap's retirement pot for the FAI and I honestly can't see him interfering in the running of the rugby team.

I can live with him paying part of Sexton's package - if it does involve Sexton being interviewed occasionally on Newstalk or having some crap column in the Indo ghostwritten by some Indo hack - I don't have to listen or read them.

Agree that there aren't too many players in the Irish panel who would need to have their IRFU packages topped up to stop falling into the maw of English or French clubs owned by moneybags - and Boujellal's recent antics involving Halfpenny, Habana, Bakkies and Lobbe will probably make a lot of players think twice about going to Toulon. Do they really want to be treated like a slab of meat by the comic book guy.

brennomac wrote: Do they really want to be treated like a slab of meat by the comic book guy.

Watch it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You might get a few private Yes's to that one! Be careful with the wording.. perverts are everywhere

Cyril wrote:

Sin é wrote:photos of POC & Jerry Flannery with JP McManus this week from Limerick I think JP had POC launch something for his Limerick Foundation. POC had JP at his wedding in France last year.

You have a very 'excited housewife with new issue of Heat magazine' attitude to rugby. I bet you know all the Munster players' star signs and favourite colours

Limerick rugby legend leads the big clean-up
Staff Reporter | September 18, 2014

Munster Rugby Press Conference - Tuesday 10th December 2013by Aoife McLoughlin

A MAJOR clean-up day for Limerick City and County was launched on Tuesday by rugby legend Paul O’Connell.

Team Limerick Clean-up (TLC), is an initiative sponsored by the JP McManus Benevolent Fund, and supported by Limerick City and County Council.

The scheme will be urging all members of the public to get together on Good Friday, April 3 to collect and recycle litter in their local area in an effort to tidy up the city and county. A public information campaign will be rolled out over the coming months.

Thats rugby in the community for you ...

Will POC be there with his brush? Will McManus?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:I feel sorry for O'Brien, holed up in some apartment in Malta while his family lives here. What good is all his money to him? He made one big mistake in his career that will mean he will never be loved in Ireland (apart from Leinster fans) for whatever he does.

edit: photos of POC & Jerry Flannery with JP McManus this week from Limerick I think JP had POC launch something for his Limerick Foundation. POC had JP at his wedding in France last year.

Isn't that one 'big mistake' the reason he is super rich... hard to feel too sympathetic.

It depends how they become super rich in the first place. Having made about half a billion from getting a licence from the people of Ireland, he promptly moved to Portugal to avoid paying the 60m odd capital gains tax. Thats what bugs me.

Other super rich tax exiles like Dermot Desmond & JP McManus make most their money outside of Ireland (i.e., selling their shares in Manchester United to the Glaziers) so are entitled to reside and pay tax anywhere they want to.

You have to admire people like Michael O'Leary for example, who stay and pay their tax here.

Whereas you seem happy for the 6 Nations/ERC/Celtic Rugby companies to make money around Europe (mainly) but channel it through Ireland to avoid tax.

Not that I have much of clue of course

HammerofThunor wrote:Whereas you seem happy for the 6 Nations/ERC/Celtic Rugby companies to make money around Europe (mainly) but channel it through Ireland to avoid tax.

Not that I have much of clue of course

Who said I was happy about that? I'd be delighted if IRB, World Cup, ERC, British Lions and Celtic Rugby paid tax in Ireland and the Irish taxpayer stopped subsidising World Rugby.

Is that the gold nameplay debate?

Yep, that debate was happening over in the Scottish Independence Thread too.  Companies doing business in Scotland but scooting back 'home' for the nameplate benefits

We'll say nothing though.  That nice lady in that Westminster Parliament Public Accounts committee would be annoyed.  She doesn't like getting annoyed, that one.  She gets quite animated when being annoyed at nameplate tricks.

You have to admire people like Michael O'Leary for example, who stay and pay their tax here.

And for the fact that he genuinely thinks it's daft that the state pay him children's allowance for all his kids even though he's a multi millionaire!

SecretFly wrote:Is that the gold nameplay debate?

Yep, that debate was happening over in the Scottish Independence Thread too.  Companies doing business in Scotland but scooting back 'home' for the nameplate benefits

We'll say nothing though.  That nice lady in that Westminster Parliament Public Accounts committee would be annoyed.  She doesn't like getting annoyed, that one.  She gets quite animated when being annoyed at nameplate tricks.

Companies based in iScotland will have to pay tax on funds generated there to iScotland.

MunsterMac wrote:

You have to admire people like Michael O'Leary for example, who stay and pay their tax here.

And for the fact that he genuinely thinks it's daft that the state pay him children's allowance for all his kids even though he's a multi millionaire!

Bearing in mind that both O'Brien and O'Leary were proteges of Tony Ryan, its interesting to see how they both operate. Or could be the difference between a ROCK (Holy Ghost) and Clongowes (Jesuit) influence on their lives.

Rock gave us O'Brien Geldof and Dev, Clongowes gave us O'Leary, James Joyce & John Bruton.

Sin é wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Sin é wrote:photos of POC & Jerry Flannery with JP McManus this week from Limerick I think JP had POC launch something for his Limerick Foundation. POC had JP at his wedding in France last year.

You have a very 'excited housewife with new issue of Heat magazine' attitude to rugby. I bet you know all the Munster players' star signs and favourite colours

Limerick rugby legend leads the big clean-up
Staff Reporter | September 18, 2014

Munster Rugby Press Conference - Tuesday 10th December 2013by Aoife McLoughlin

A MAJOR clean-up day for Limerick City and County was launched on Tuesday by rugby legend Paul O’Connell.

Team Limerick Clean-up (TLC), is an initiative sponsored by the JP McManus Benevolent Fund, and supported by Limerick City and County Council.

The scheme will be urging all members of the public to get together on Good Friday, April 3 to collect and recycle litter in their local area in an effort to tidy up the city and county. A public information campaign will be rolled out over the coming months.

Thats rugby in the community for you ...

Is The Queen visiting?