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A B&I league

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wayne
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Post by profitius Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

This global state of flux is unlikely to settle down in the foreseeable future. The entry of sevens at the Rio Olympics will tug more strongly at the game’s seams, as will the start of a revised European club competition this autumn. The Premiership salary cap is set to allow for a second “marquee player” from overseas next season, placing a strain on clubs whose spending does not reach the current ceiling.

It is all symptomatic of the same thing: union’s impatience for growth, on and off the field, at a crucial stage of the professional game’s development. Senior officials from the bigger English clubs are already openly speculating that a strong, combined British and Irish league, pitting Leinster, Munster and Ulster – for instance – against Leicester, Saracens and Northampton on a more regular basis, could evolve in the not-too-distant future. One suggestion is to have 24 elite teams split into two divisions of 12 apiece (four Irish, four Welsh, two Scots and 14 English) with two up, two down promotion/relegation between the two each season. Better attended – and potentially fewer – games are being sought by administrators and players’ union officials.


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/sep/16/global-leaders-rugby-union-impatience-growth


The season has just begun and theres already talk about a B&I league. A Welsh journalist mentioned it the other day now the guardian. Its bound to come unless the English game takes off like the French game. I think the French league is actually the main force behind it because they're inflating all prices.
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Post by TJ Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:10 pm

Something I don't understand - what is the appeal to the welsh of playing in a league with the english clubs? Thye would not be at any advantage compared to the pro 12 they would stil be stuck in the middle / bottom of the league. The english clubs have shown they do not care about anything but themselvs and their money. I just don't get it? Do they think it would be easier for them rather than playing leinster / glasgow etc?

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Post by HammerofThunor Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:58 pm

I really don't see the point of a British and Irish league. It means the English have to deal with all the issues of having a multi-national league. Travel for away games (less of a problem with the Welsh and they're not much further (Llanelli, according to Google, takes an extra 7 mins to get to compared with Exeter (for Newcastle)). Organising it with so many unions involved, competing requirements, etc. Beholden on more unions, Italians and Welsh involvement (or not) has caused issues, it would only be adding to it.

And the benefits? Strengthen the top tier, which means some of your sides are missing out on playing the stronger sides (or all the English are in the 2nd tier and then what's the point of changing?).

I don't really see any benefit at all, for anyone. Although I would welcome a joining of the Welsh and English systems, I'm English, my wife is Welsh and I got into rugby in Wales, it should only be done if at all levels. Perhaps a ring fencing of the professional tier of maybe 20 odd teams. The welsh go wherever in there they end up. Potentially having a combined, semi-pro level just below for those aiming for professional status, which is feed by the lower Welsh and English leagues. But that will never happen, would be massive chore and not worth it really.

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Post by Exiledinborders Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:14 pm

TJ wrote:Something I don't understand - what is the appeal to the welsh of playing in a league with the english clubs?  Thye would not be at any advantage compared to the pro 12  they would stil be stuck in the middle / bottom of the league.  The english clubs have shown they do not care about anything but themselvs and their money.  I just don't get it?  Do they think it would be easier for them rather than playing leinster / glasgow etc?
The only advantage I can see is more away supporters due to England being closer. I can see no advantage to English clubs at all.

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Post by SecretFly Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:26 pm

TJ wrote:Something I don't understand - what is the appeal to the welsh of playing in a league with the english clubs?  Thye would not be at any advantage compared to the pro 12  they would stil be stuck in the middle / bottom of the league.  The english clubs have shown they do not care about anything but themselvs and their money.  I just don't get it?  Do they think it would be easier for them rather than playing leinster / glasgow etc?

The soul... the spirit.

In their soul and in their spirit, they want battle with the English.  You might compare it to our Provinces wanting to tear strips off each other (well at least the way it used to be with the Provinces! - they can be pretty timid affairs these days)  But the Welsh heart is directed east rather than West.  

Incidently, my heart is directed west.  As in maybe the eventual solution to people being unhappy is to let Wales back to their exclusive battles with English sides and why don't we instead help out the alleged wish amongst the main nations to increase interest in the game elsewhere.  
Look to a have a few East Coast American sides and/or east Coast Canadian sides entering a Cross-Atlantic competition with us, the Scots and the Italians.  If the SH nations can have a pan-National club competition that crosses big geographical gaps, then I can't see why we couldn't operate a similar League.  
Of course that would take time to develop but as early as now we could chat with people across the Atlantic and play around with the idea for future reference maybe six/seven/ten years down the line.
The urge for Wales seems incessantly to be getting back to competing with England.  I wouldn't at all be in on the idea of following them.  Too much 'quality' in the one tight zone of influence, and therefore some 'quality' inevitably will be asked to fall away, drift down and die.  The risk is too big for Irish rugby.  I think it's an equal risk for Welsh teams btw, but they have to follow their own dreams and in time probably will.

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Post by Exiledinborders Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TJ wrote:Something I don't understand - what is the appeal to the welsh of playing in a league with the english clubs?  Thye would not be at any advantage compared to the pro 12  they would stil be stuck in the middle / bottom of the league.  The english clubs have shown they do not care about anything but themselvs and their money.  I just don't get it?  Do they think it would be easier for them rather than playing leinster / glasgow etc?

The soul... the spirit.

In their soul and in their spirit, they want battle with the English.  You might compare it to our Provinces wanting to tear strips off each other (well at least the way it used to be with the Provinces! - they can be pretty timid affairs these days)  But the Welsh heart is directed east rather than West.  

Incidently, my heart is directed west.  As in maybe the eventual solution to people being unhappy is to let Wales back to their exclusive battles with English sides and why don't we instead help out the alleged wish amongst the main nations to increase interest in the game elsewhere.  
Look to a have a few East Coast American sides and/or east Coast Canadian sides entering a Cross-Atlantic competition with us, the Scots and the Italians.  If the SH nations can have a pan-National club competition that crosses big geographical gaps, then I can't see why we couldn't operate a similar League.  
Of course that would take time to develop but as early as now we could chat with people across the Atlantic and play around with the idea for future reference maybe six/seven/ten years down the line.
The urge for Wales seems incessantly to be getting back to competing with England.  I wouldn't at all be in on the idea of following them.  Too much 'quality' in the one tight zone of influence, and therefore some 'quality' inevitably will be asked to fall away, drift down and die.  The risk is too big for Irish rugby.  I think it's an equal risk for Welsh teams btw, but they have to follow their own dreams and in time probably will.

I can see that. In the amateur days the best games were often English Welsh affairs. Gloucester v Cardiff has more bite to it than Treviso v Cardiff.

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Post by SecretFly Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:30 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
I can see that. In the amateur days the best games were often English Welsh affairs. Gloucester v Cardiff has more bite to it than Treviso v Cardiff.

It's obviously a big factor in their constant longing to return to that kind of history.  But I'm saying that's for them if they choose to eventually return to some kind of English/Welsh league - and if the English want to let them in! (Not so certain!).  But if that's their chosen way down the line I'm saying we should be preparing different plans for ourselves and checking out west of us to see if there is a new market and new adventures into this new century

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