Fight Night LIVE

First topic message reminder :

Anyone watching so far? Just prospects against journeymen so far, and then Groves, not Groves' fault I guess he needed Matchroom to supply an undercard and they used it as a filler for prospects.

I thought he got binned too due to alcoholism? Or something anyway. Looked like a hippie last night with his beard and low cut top.

Yeh Alex didn't agree with my statement , Duran.

Didn't see groves last night.

Funnily enough, groves is one of the few guys I'd give an outside chance to against ward. I reiterate its an outside chance, but ward doesn't have a cast iron chin, so someone with a dig and the speed/ability to land it has a chance. Landing it is the difficulty, but regardless he'd present a boxing challenge too.

Groves too easy to hit himself, so most likely he gets outboxed and broken down, but I'd quite like to see the fight. Well wouldn't it be nice to see ward fight anyone.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

DuransHorse wrote:Probably related more to mobile and Alex saying at world level he gets taken out late every time if he doesn't do the business sooner.  Also, that Rebrasses fought a "stupid" fight given his range advantage. If he'd done his homework he probably knew like the rest of us that relying on a jab v Groves was probably silly given Groves own jab is seen as one of the best in the division despite his short reach compared to many others.

It's just opinion of course, I can see where its come from and half agree if I'm honest.  The problem is Groves was in with a guy that looked tough but limited and given what he wanted to prove I'm not surprised he took a few unnecessary shots off the guy.

I just thought all things considered he did quite well last night if Rebrasses is just one of those guys with a chin of iron that won't quit or be stopped.

Don't quote me on that... I said Mobile was stupid for saying that. Please read properly.

Apologies Alex. I did read your comment but I took the "stupidity" line out of context. I thought that line was unrelated and you were referring/agreeing with fingers who had used the word twice in previous posts regarding Rebrasses tactics. I missed the sarcasm and can only blame the shandy I was drinking.

Don't go apologising to Alex. There was a time where he was a nice little admin clerk... since he got into pumping iron he's got all testosterone fuelled and grumpy.

I don't think much has changed with how I view Groves, hard hitting and quick for the first 6 rnds though as the fight goes on he tires and makes more mistakes and is not the best at taking a punch. He is allways going to be exciting to watch and has a decent chance against most but has that weakness against more technical boxers. All in all though a very good win against good Euro level fighter...

milkyboy wrote:Don't go apologising to Alex. There was a time where he was a nice little admin clerk... since he got into pumping iron he's got all testosterone fuelled and grumpy.

Nothing wrong with pumping.a little iron... Get Big. Get Mad. Get Aggro.

milkyboy wrote:Don't go apologising to Alex. There was a time where he was a nice little admin clerk... since he got into pumping iron he's got all testosterone fuelled and grumpy.

Ah, like TRUSS only without the ...'s you mean? I now understand. Cheers for the heads up.

Can't agree with some of that tunes, he will struuggle against tough boxers in the later rounds but a technical boxer he can keep outboxing. Froch got through both times entirely on his toughness, technique had nothing to do with it.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Can't agree with some of that tunes, he will struuggle against tough boxers in the later rounds but a technical boxer he can keep outboxing. Froch got through both times entirely on his toughness, technique had nothing to do with it.

Their first fight was phenomenal in that respect. Most boxers would be clinging on for dear life after taking the clean shots Carl took for several rounds, Georges own fatigue should have been irrelevant. Unfortunately he was in with one tough mudda. I think George can slow most of his opponents down enough with good early work to get through in most cases but I still have some reservations. I think he needs to stop trading so much, his skills aren't in going toe to toe but his ego seems to compel him to.

kingraf wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Don't go apologising to Alex. There was a time where he was a nice little admin clerk... since he got into pumping iron he's got all testosterone fuelled and grumpy.

Nothing wrong with pumping.a little iron... Get Big. Get Mad. Get Aggro.

I understand the whole insecure young man thing raf. Luckily I was at ease with my masculinity, and never had a problem getting girls so I never felt the need to do it... But you 'll never find me mocking those that do

DuransHorse wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Can't agree with some of that tunes, he will struuggle against tough boxers in the later rounds but a technical boxer he can keep outboxing. Froch got through both times entirely on his toughness, technique had nothing to do with it.

Their first fight was phenomenal in that respect.  Most boxers would be clinging on for dear life after taking the clean shots Carl took for several rounds, Georges own fatigue should have been irrelevant.  Unfortunately he was in with one tough mudda. I think George can slow most of his opponents down enough with good early work to get through in most cases but I still have some reservations.  I think he needs to stop trading so much, his skills aren't in going toe to toe but his ego seems to compel him to.

Ever since the Anderson fight, I always felt that groves' 'fighting instinct' when hurt would be his undoing... Bit like khan. He can fight to a plan until he gets tagged, so then goes to war at the worst possible time. In the de gale fight and froch 2 he appeared to fight to a plan pretty well, so he CAN keep the ego in check, just not sure he can do anything about the fight/flight instinct.

milkyboy wrote:

kingraf wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Don't go apologising to Alex. There was a time where he was a nice little admin clerk... since he got into pumping iron he's got all testosterone fuelled and grumpy.

Nothing wrong with pumping.a little iron... Get Big. Get Mad. Get Aggro.

I understand the whole insecure young man thing raf. Luckily I was at ease with my masculinity, and never had a problem getting girls so I never felt the need to do it... But you 'll never find me mocking those that do

I think you're just upset that the gym life didn't choose you Milky, many are called, few are chosen. I'm sure that like myself, Alex has no problem with the ladies... Though I have no doubt my girlfriend is way better looking

Smith apparently has a great chance of upsetting Abraham with the right gameplan but Groves gets knocked out according to Froch. Hmmmm.....

I also loved the Watts line at the start "this fellow calls himself the Iceberg so we know hes cool under pressure". Quality.

Nice to see Glenn back and apparently sober.

kingraf wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

kingraf wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Don't go apologising to Alex. There was a time where he was a nice little admin clerk... since he got into pumping iron he's got all testosterone fuelled and grumpy.

Nothing wrong with pumping.a little iron... Get Big. Get Mad. Get Aggro.

I understand the whole insecure young man thing raf. Luckily I was at ease with my masculinity, and never had a problem getting girls so I never felt the need to do it... But you 'll never find me mocking those that do

I think you're just upset that the gym life didn't choose you Milky, many are called, few are chosen. I'm sure that like myself, Alex has no problem with the ladies... Though I have no doubt my girlfriend is way better looking

It most definitely didn't choose me fella, something my currently increasing girth is testimony to  

milkyboy wrote:

DuransHorse wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Can't agree with some of that tunes, he will struuggle against tough boxers in the later rounds but a technical boxer he can keep outboxing. Froch got through both times entirely on his toughness, technique had nothing to do with it.

Their first fight was phenomenal in that respect.  Most boxers would be clinging on for dear life after taking the clean shots Carl took for several rounds, Georges own fatigue should have been irrelevant.  Unfortunately he was in with one tough mudda. I think George can slow most of his opponents down enough with good early work to get through in most cases but I still have some reservations.  I think he needs to stop trading so much, his skills aren't in going toe to toe but his ego seems to compel him to.

Ever since the Anderson fight, I always felt that groves' 'fighting instinct' when hurt would be his undoing... Bit like khan. He can fight to a plan until he gets tagged, so then goes to war at the worst possible time. In the de gale fight and froch 2 he appeared to fight to a plan pretty well, so he CAN keep the ego in check, just not sure he can do anything about the fight/flight instinct.

I think you've summed that up nicely there. Completely agree. Interesting that even when Paddy told him directly not to engage in the 12th he still did. I guess instinct is the dominant voice in his head.

We spoke about it before I believe Milky that Groves seems to a physiological issue with his stamina, no matter how hard he trains he'll never be able to fight at a high intensity for 12 rounds just like Jermain Taylor. It could however be a problem ingrained by the training of Booth when you also consider Haye who struggled to give up any level of work rate for more than a few rounds.

I wonder what training methods are done different though Hammer.

For example, we know Froch has great stamina...we knew Calzaghe did.....we know Mayweather has etc etc

But Groves seems to have problems yet he is training to fight 12 rounds as well.

I'd also say Chavez Jr has poor stamina....very heavy pressure early on and fades late on...in a different way in that he gets hit at 90% connection rate as opposed to 85% in the first 6.

But what training could he do in order to increase the supposed stamina issue...which to be fair...isn't THAT bad of a problem when you look at who is at super middle.

It's not necessarily a training problem, we all have different scope when it comes to fitness, when you're talking about Froch and especially Calzaghe you're talking about two fighters with supreme natural fitness. Calzaghe was never out of shape per se but he didn't look particularly athletic so must have had supreme natural fitness something maybe Groves doesn't have.

If we take Jermain Taylor for instance, he must have trained hour after hour on his fitness but seemingly to no avail, whether it's physiology or maybe just burning nervous energy I don't know and I suspect Groves is the same.

Chavez is a slow starter who comes on strong as the fight progresses

It's an interesting area. Witter was a 5 round fighter... Without seeming like he punched himself out. I thought brook was the same, but the porter fight seems to have supported the view that he just didn't take training seriously enough previously.

Depending on the fighter, I Think its genuinely any combination of:
1. Some people just have more natural stamina than others.
2. Some of them push themselves harder in training than others
3. Some have a style that just expends more energy
4. Expending nervous energy before or during a fight
5. Inability to pace themselves in a fight situation

Obviously with some there is a disconnect between fitness levels in training/testing... Groves is apparently a hard trainer and super fit... and how they perform in a fight which suggests for him maybe it's more a nervous energy thing. Hey, it's all supposition.

I wouldn't be dismissing Groves' ability to be a solid twelve-round fighter just yet, personally. A lot of that idea seems to be based on the first Froch fight, where he was on fire four about 7 rounds and then seemed a little weary in comparison in the 8th and 9th.

Fair enough, the pace was probably beginning to tell on him a little by then, but let's not forget who he was in there against. Has there every been any fight where Froch hasn't looked fresher and / or been busier than his opponent in the home stretch, even if he's lost? The only fight I can really think of would be the Dirrell one. Reading so much in to Groves' stamina by using Froch as a marker probably doesn't give a true reflection, as Froch is arguably the most durable and well-conditioned elite fighter going right now.

Similarly, questions about Ward's stamina get thrown around sometimes, largely for the same reasons - ie, he looked a little more ragged late on against Froch than he did earlier in the fight, and the quality of his work in that fight definitely took a downturn in rounds 11 and 12 as he made sure of seeing it out. But again I'm more inclined to think that's just the Froch factor rather than Ward's stamina being a concern per se. I don't remember seeing Ward look all that knackered late on in other fights. Even against a rough, tough and physically imposing guy like Bika he was able to wrestle back control of the fight in rounds 9, 10 and 11 when the fight had been pretty close beforehand.

I think there's a lot of Super-Middleweights out there who could appear to have questionable stamina against a guy like Froch, but who you'd find aren't that bad in that area against anyone else. Groves may have looked less impressive in the late rounds than the early ones last night (and against Glen Johnson, for instance) but not to the extent where I don't think he can ever box a strong and effective full twelve rounds against a top level Super-Middleweight. In both fights he threw a lot of leather consistently without looking like he was running on fumes.

His stamina doesn't appear to be one of his greatest strengths, but I don't think it's as worrying as others seem to, either. I'd say a much more pressing matter would be to tighten up his defence which seems to get more and more lax as fights go on, and as others have said to try and dim that red mist tendency he has when he does get caught. You'll always look better in the championship rounds if you've not taken too much punishment en-route to getting there.

I recall that both Froch and Calzaghe avoided weights and opted for a largely body weight strength regime. Enzo once said that Calzaghe would do thousands of push-ups for his core strength and not really bother with even doing sit-ups. Froch has said he doesn't bench press or do many weights as it would add too much bulk and instead relies on chin-ups, pull-ups and dips. Both are tremendous examples of stamina and volume stoppages.

My guess is that Groves does hit the weights more based on what I've seen from Adam Booth's training camps. All I've ever really seen of Haye's training, sparring aside, is lots of weights and a wall climber for cardio. As a heavy he can obviously afford to add bulk more than Groves but I'd guess under Booth the weights were a decent percentage of his strength training. This obviously has some advantages as he put Froch down and hurt him more than anyone else ever has but it does eat up your reserves.

Someone mentioned that Groves may have lost a bit of his power on Saturday night, hard to tell against a guy who may just have a really solid chin, and I thought he did 12 at a fast pace quite well. Maybe under Paddy he will become a little less reliant on power and have a more cardio focused regime. Who knows?

I thought Froch was very petty and almost bitter in his appraisal of Groves.....

After a devastating knockout in his last fight Groves performed well in a comeback fight and dominated alomost every round.....

I've seen him sharper but It's hard to blame anybody for not looking like Ray Robinson after what happened last time..

I'll be shocked If Abraham beats Groves...........Should they fight..........

He can bang but so what.............Mugabi could bang and he had the p**s tasken out of him by Norris..