Aviva Premiership Round Four

I don't remember that at all Ozzy. The scrum at Welford Rd didn't really move much at Ravenhill Cole took him to the cleaners in the first half and in the second half Court took the tactic of a big hit then standing up before Cole could get back at him. He played the ref well in that second half. He's a clever prop with plenty of experience. Balmain is a powerful lump but doesn't have that experience and isn't the most technical. Balmain is very good in the loose.

If Gloucester didn't have Dan Robson they'd be in a lot of trouble tonight he's been electric. Both sides look decidedly unsure of what to do with the ball when they have it. Nice to see Pienaar get a try, he had awful luck at Tigers with a nasty ACL break after pushing his way onto the fringes of the first team. He never really re gathered that momentum but went well in the Championship and now seems to be doing alright with Welsh.

just got home from work. London Welsh are within 2 of Gloucester? Is Gloucester poopie? Or did someone replace the LW players? What is going on?

Welsh have been gash, Gloucester have been marginally less gash doc.

I like the description! gash and a bit less gash.

From how the second half is unfolding I see exactly what you mean. Seems like Gloucester couldn't score in a bordello.

And not for nuthin', how many times will Gloucester go into contact and knock it forward?

Welsh are not good enough and are nowhere near fit enough.

London Irish are the favourites tomorrow and should win by 15 points.

Thats b ollocks welly

Not according to bookies Welly.  Coral have yourselves at 1/7 and us at 9/2 to win.

Ozzie, today was the first time I saw LW this season and I think you are absolutely right. All I saw today was the 2nd half. Gloucester were not great (less gash), but LW were really poor. Defended well for a while but gave up the ghost in the last 15 minutes. Didn't Gloucester grab 4 tries in those final 15 minutes? Do you think Gloucester will actually feel good abut the match? Is there anything they can take from it?

The massive stat put up on tv was that the points differential for LW is -153. And that is after only 4 matches. Methinks they are in the relegation zone now. Their matches of the season will be against Newcastle.

stnick88 wrote:Thats b ollocks welly

I completely agree, Welly is obviously struggling to see tomorrow's result with his one eye. With my third eye however I can see a clear 40+ point win for Irish, with Mr P Try getting himself on the scoreboard a few times.

Should Tigers defy the odds and score a single point then the rate of improvement from last week will be so impressive you'd have to pencil them in for this year's AP, LV and Champions Cup titles.

I can genuinely not recall ever being so underwhelmed by a 6 try victory. Great to get the 5 points, but a massive step back from last week. Welsh must take credit from their first half, but in general they are a truly dire side and need a miracle to stay up.

Welsh conceded 2 tries in 2 minutes in the first half doc.  For the second one there was a line break and the Gloucester player got caught by a covering tackle, before the ball was eventually recycled and they scored the try.  On the replay you could see Welsh players ambling back when the attacker was tackled.  None of them were busting a gut to get back and try to rescue the situation.  

That's just not good enough.  When their fitness went in the final 20 minutes it got even worse and the scoreline then flattered Gloucester, who lacked ideas in attack for most of the game and were also pretty average in defence.

I cannot see how Welsh can stay up.

Ozzy was it you who mentioned watching LI - falcons on bet365?

Just wondering whether the rugby streams are limited to tiny vision like the other sports I'm testing it with now. If so I'll have to get looking for resizing extensions or something.

I watched Falcons vs. London Irish on the bet365 stream via wiziwig. Was one of the better streams I've watched.

What's more worrying for Glaws is they look better with Robson and Atkinson at 9/10 then they do with Laidlaw and Hook. Hook was very poor. Robson easily man of the match for me.

Hook was poor, but it was 36 who moved to 10 not Atkinson. This also suggests the new coaching set up don't see Laidlaw as a 10 as Robson was playing very well when they took him off and they could have easily brought him on for Hook instead.

Many Glaws supporters have felt Robson will be our starting 9 this season, but bar the Chiefs game Laidlaw has looked good and he did add something when he came on last night. Nevertheless I'd be surprised if Robson doesn't start against Tigers.

In the cold light of day I'm less frustrated with the performance as we still ended up with the right performance. Our defence has improved notably and we're averaging scoring 3 tries a game. There is still an enormous amount to work on, but we're going in the right direction. Even with all Tigers' injury woes next week will be a good test of where we're at.

Never rated Hook at 10, he's a centre, just like guys like Mccalister and Beale, some players have the skillset but just don't have the mentality.

I know it is a bit rich coming from a Falcons fan, but London Welsh really are appalling. If the various Gloucester kickers hadn't been wearing beer goggles it would have been 50 again.

It's not rich at all Cumbrian, they are truly awful.  Replacing the guys who got them promoted and praying that the 'star names' gel was a mistake, and those chickens are coming home to roost.

Welsh are an embarrassment to the league.

Ozzy they didn't replace those that got them there though, of the 32 players they used in the play offs 26 of them are still at the club. With the increased salary cap and the limited time the promoted championship side has to recruit they were always going to face an uphill challenge and at the moment you just can't see them staying up.

Sorry HKC, I don't agree with that at all.  Last time Welsh got promoted after a legal wrangle, I can accept that time was short.  If you are serious about getting promoted, you build a squad that can get you up, and with a couple of shrewd additions can keep you up the season afterwards, as Exeter did and as whoever comes up out of Worcester and Bristol will have done next season.

Welsh, once again appear to have failed to plan in advance and then gone out having got promoted and just bought whoever was available without any sort of plan in place as to how those players would fit together.  I am not trying to be critical, as I would love to see them succeed, but the infrastructure at their club still appears to be championship rather than premiership standard.

But were they in a financial position to plan for life in the Jeff? Given the bank role of Steve Lansdowne and the signings of players like Ryan Jones it would have been very reasonable for the Welsh board to err on the conservative side as could they afford to bring in players without the BT money? Equally had they not gone up they'd be up against the spending power of Cecil Duckworth. It probably says more about the gap between the Jeff and the championship rather then Welsh's misplaced short termism.

I appreciate Exeter are the model to follow but not every side can enjoy the ability to own a stadium or have a such a strong catchment area for fans, hence why Exeter really are the only example of a side successfully coming up the divisions, as even Worcester have failed to properly establish themselves as anything other than a yo yo side.

Of course there is a gap, and one that will no doubt grow as the Premiership sides enjoy better revenue streams through improved TV deals etc.  All that means is that you MUST HAVE a plan, in order to bridge that gap should you get promoted.  This is where Welsh's issues lay in my opinion.

Administratively they were poor last time around, hence the points deduction for irregularities.  It appears to me, albeit from the outside, that nothing much has changed within the structure of the club. 

Yes, Exeter have the advantages that you mention, but they appear to be well run on and off the pitch.  They have not spent big on playing resources, instead bringing in seasoned pros who fit their mould, alongside home grown talent.  Welsh need to get an academy in place, and this should have been a priority when they got promoted the first time, but it hasn't been done.  Money and time are just excuses from what I've seen, and Burnell carping on last night about refereeing decisions and having been promised a level playing field does nothing to endear them to me if I'm being honest.

Finances doesn't explain the lack of fitness or leadership that was the main issue last night. Minus Gordon Ross they look lost, Olly Barkley looks every bit a player past his best who's just topping up his savings.

Absolutely fkas.  Where was the heart and desire out there?  I didn't see any, or any signs that there is anything happening that will improve them as a side.

As I found out last season that kind of passionless approach is a coaching issue. I have to say I find Justin Burnell comes across as a defeated man which will no doubt rub off on the team. Nevertheless you can't expect a board to replace the coach who got them promoted prior to the start of the season. The simple fact is that they won the championship with players not up to Jeff standards and their plan was in such a situation they would recruit in the necessary players. Unfortunately for them it isn't working, but I don't think they should be vilified for the number of new recruits; it is no more than what is happening at Glaws as a times this level of change is needed.

As above for me it is a coaching issue. A lack of fitness is the coaches' responsibility. Burnell has been making a number of changes to match day squads and this can't help continuity. Glaws have been selecting the same side bar injuries to allow the players to build an understanding of each other. As we saw last night with Hook and 36 this can take some time! So for Burnell to make unforced changes doesn't help. I know it seems a bit churlish to call for a coaching change so early, but something needs to happen at Welsh for them to stand a chance of staying up. If they can stay in the Jeff then they can start making more long term plans.

London Welsh does seem caught in the chicken and egg roundabout. Which comes first? The organisation or the players? Seems they can't build an organisation without some success and sustainability in the Premiership. And they can't sustain in the Premiership without the players. And they can't bring in players without an organisation. Unfortunately for them, it seems they simply do not have sufficient underpinnings to be anything more than a yo-yo club. The show they put on yesterday was clearly poor.

Gerathy Pen

Leicester tigers 0 - London Irish 3 (6 mins)

Short try.

Leicester Tigers 0 London Irish 8 (8 mins) con to come. going to TMO, no try penalty tigers obvious obstruction.

Still 0-3

Leicester win a scrum penalty against the head!!!!!! put on the pressure on the Irish front row and won it.

Burns misses Pen 0-3

Gerathy Pen from over half way line 0-6 15 mins.

Injury scare for Burns, but he is back up.

Burns misses a Pen 0-6

Leicester Tigers win another Scrum penalty, going for touch

Irish scrum penalty, followed by a bit of hand bags. Penalty reversed due to a punch thrown by Cowan in a kickable place for Irish.

Ghilrandni off (Think concussion test or blood) Briggs on (28 mins)

Burns Pen (30 Mins)

Leicester Tigers 3 - 6 London Irish

Try Irish: Aulika, Con good Gerathy

Leicester Tigers 3 - 13 London Irish

Gerathy YC, Burns Pen Leicester 6 - 13 London Irish.

Go on Irish!

Globogym 10 Sale 0 at the mo. Alex Goode with the try, at least we won't have to now listen to Barnes gush about he's the greatest attacking fullback in England though.

Need sale to start scoring back.

Penalty try for Saints due to deliberat knock on. Pretty rare but was probably an easy run in if the ball went to hand.

Cowabunga

Saints giving it Bath in revenge for their humiliated locals.

HammerofThunor wrote:Saints giving it Bath in revenge for their humiliated locals.

Saints restoring East midlands honour then.

I feel bad.

It's alright, Bath are back in this.

HT Leicester 6 - London Irish 13.

Leicester waking up in the second half.

Was to much kicking by them early on, But Benjamin is looking good with ball in hand, same with Kitchener and Williams.

Forwards is fairly even.

Garner having a poor game, Irish have been offside every time nearly and lying all over the ball.

Second Half

Burns Pen (47 mins)

Tigers 9 - Irish 13

 Irish subs:

 O'Leary on for Steele
 Guest on for someone


Gerathy Pen

 Tigers 9 - Irish 16.
Goneva Try Kick good.

 Leicester tigers 16 London Irish 16

Foden been brilliant today. As has Fotaulai (sp)

Williams going for a huge kick 57 M imo.


 Don't know if he will get this.

~He got it what a huge huge kick.

Perennial underdogs in with a shout of victory at home against mid table opposition. Shock result at welford?

Bathite wrote:Perennial underdogs in with a shout of victory at home against mid table opposition. Shock result at welford?

 Haha

 don't Garner is having a shocker, and I mean a shocker.

Irish in the lead by 3 points with 2 mins left.

Leicester lose Shocking referring by Garner.

 But Bristow was a rock @ LH.

We've had a lot of luck here today. But can't help but think how many pens saints have conceded in 22 without a card

Waiting for cockers to speak.

 So angry with the Ref.

 Scully was brilliant today, Benjamin looked very good considering how long he has been out.

 Williams played well at 12, Bristow was cracking, De Cheves added weight in the second row.


 Bristow and Balmain both 22 were brilliant.

One rule for saints when it comes to tmo tries. One rule for everyone else!

Disgraceful!

Agree that Garner was absolutely dreadful but so were the Tigers. I saw many people predicting a big backlash from last week but I just couldn't see it. All the talk this week has seemed measured and pragmatic rather than battle like and demanding an immediate response.