Aviva Premiership Round Four

Well played saints. Best side over 80 won. Said at the start I would be really happy with a lbp.

Going 21 points behind and after that horror start, to be that close to sneaking a draw is brilliant.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Agree that Garner was absolutely dreadful but so were the Tigers. I saw many people predicting a big backlash from last week but I just couldn't see it. All the talk this week has seemed measured and pragmatic rather than battle like and demanding an immediate response.

  Thought the second half got better.

 Benjamin should have been left on.

 Big plus point for me was the front row.

 I didn't think Leicester would have won, but it was better.

 Another week with Williams @ 12 and maybe Manu back I think Leicester will have Glous.

 Rumoured that Manu, thorn and possibly Rizzo back next week.

 Williams Needs to kick he is one of the best kickers in the league.

Welly predicts a tigers win next week? Now I've seen it all

Bathite wrote:Welly predicts a tigers win next week? Now I've seen it all

 that if the some players return.

 

Welly wrote:

Bathite wrote:Welly predicts a tigers win next week? Now I've seen it all

 that if the some players return.

 

Form and the league table suggest otherwise...

HongKongCherry wrote:

Welly wrote:

Bathite wrote:Welly predicts a tigers win next week? Now I've seen it all

 that if the some players return.

 

Form and the league table suggest otherwise...

 Glous won 2 lost 2
 Tigers won 2 lost 2

 Battle of the mediocrity, sounds like a cracker.

 Both teams have talented backs still just make some right brain farts.

 If Williams kicks we should win the kicking battle though.

 As long a hook kicks for you.

 Otherwise Hook v Burns kicking battle could be a thing of terror.

Welly wrote:

  Thought the second half got better.

 Benjamin should have been left on.

 Big plus point for me was the front row.

 I didn't think Leicester would have won, but it was better.

 Another week with Williams @ 12 and maybe Manu back I think Leicester will have Glous.

 Rumoured that Manu, thorn and possibly Rizzo back next week.

 Williams Needs to kick he is one of the best kickers in the league.

Agree with all of that mate. I just think if the Bath game hadn't have happened people would be predicting a close game that could go either way (as it turned out to be). Then after last week's result I saw people talking about how Cockers would be so furious that the next game would become a must win game and Tigers would smash any team they played. While he might be very passionate and occasionally hot-headed - that's why he's so loved by many of us - he's smarter than he lets on and wouldn't over react to one game. The fans might have been seeking blood but I doubt the team trained any differently this week, and don't expect them to next week.

While I still feel like Rizzo and Fluffy are still the preferred bench props, I agree with you that today's young front rows show a lot of promise and could be very good in a couple of years.

I think if fluffy and Rizzo are fit I would go for.

 1) Bristow
 3) Fluffy

17) Rizzo
18) Balmain

 honestly it wasn't going to be a huge score mainly because we still don't have the players for that, it was a solid game with aggression in the forwards which was needed after last week.

 It's a marathon not a sprint.

 been in a worse position than this and pulled it back in the end.

 The offy forum will explode in 1/2 hour to an hours time.

Yeah i'm giving it a few hours to build up then i'll go on and read it for a good laugh. I've seen meltdown on there when Tigers have won but failed to pick up a TBP so today it will be filled with hysteria. No doubt they'll completely ignore that Irish played well against Saracens and will have come to WR today really confident of a win.

How do you feel about the punch? I only caught it once as i'd missed it live but it looked on the chest to me but Crowson seems sure it was to the face.

I'm still confident this year. The squad is better and the hole they need to dig themselves out of is much shallower than one's they have done in the last few years with the same core group of players and management. Another magic speech from Geordan and a couple of good wins and the offy'll soon stop screaming for Cockers to be sacked. Or maybe not.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
How do you feel about the punch? I only caught it once as i'd missed it live but it looked on the chest to me but Crowson seems sure it was to the face.

I'm still confident this year. The squad is better and the hole they need to dig themselves out of is much shallower than one's they have done in the last few years with the same core group of players and management. Another magic speech from Geordan and a couple of good wins and the offy'll soon stop screaming for Cockers to be sacked. Or maybe not.

 It to me did catch the face although it wasn't a solid punch.

 Mind you Twitter and Facebook can be just as bad as the offy.

 Some Tiger fans can be so up themselves and think that no team has a right to beat us and that it is the Head coaches MoC until he left was seen as the devil now he viewed as a saint.

Too lazy after the two hour journey home to read back, so will just posy my thoughts.

London Irish deserved to win because in Shane Geraghty (cynical yellow withstanding) they had the stand out performer. In a game with a lot of average to poor kicking he was the only decent kicker (Noakes, Burns and Williams all had shockers) from hand and off the tee.

Overall though it was a poor performance by both teams and the officials. Leicester just about hung in there in the first half. However, but for dreadful displays by Paice (woeful throwing) and Aulika (coudl not scrummage, was fat and barely ever managed anything more than a stagger in loose) and a butchered try attempt on 40 minutes after a goal line interception, could and perhaps should have been well clear.

Second half was better and throughout the game I thought the scrum held its own and often had the edge. LI were better at securing quick ball though (or Leicester were less able at slowing it down?).

Our main problem was a comnplete lack of cohesion from 10 out in defence and attack. burns and Williams were on completely different wavelengths and things were barely improved outside them.

I rhought ben Youngs did lkead the team well, kept the tempo high but two long passes that if they came off could have been tries were dreadfully short of power.

And Garner. I felt his management of adbantage was dreadful. I am sure LI fans will find examples where their team suffered too, but I am a tigers fan anyway the first lineouty that Paice underthrew and gibson nabbed. Skivington grabbed him by the neck and threw him to the ground while in the air and scrappy accrued which Garner deemed sufficient. Several knocked on lineouts by LI were waved away as Youngs had to scramble back to retrieve. and a scrum that marched forward with LI disengaging was deemed ok as tigers sort of had the ball.

Finally the two penalty reversal incidents. I believe Garner made the right decision with the Cowan one. Looked like a forearm to the face but Gibson had no right to have him in a neck lock. It reminded me of the incident at the Madj a few years back where Youngs took "revenge" on the LI player who had hold of his legs and would not let him get to the breakdown. I thought that YC was harsh (though every LI fan defended it) and I feel a YC today for Cowan would have been harsh.

Then we get Crane where he gets frustrated with a player lying on the ball and drives into his back. Sheer stupidity by Crane and for that alone you can say he deserves to go - but complete inconsistency from the ref.

So to summarise using the template set last night we have:

Gash (LI) Gasher (Tigers) and Gashest (Garner).

So Garner comes out as king of gash?

yappysnap wrote:So Garner comes out as king of gash?

 Well I guess so although that makes it seem like a honour.

I haven't seen the game, but I'm slightly disappointed reading the reaction of some on here.  What happened to when you lose just congratulating the opposition and saying they were the better team on the day.

So far, on here and other online media I've seen that it was down to injuries, down to the referee and down to us cheating at breakdown.  Here it's that we were gash.  Amazingly, when we beat Falcons, their fans reckon we were gash, and now having beaten Tigers, their fans say we were gash also.

Maybe it's the way forward, sorry Quins and Sarries fans, but you lot were gash when you beat us, just marginally less gash than we obviously are!

rish weren't bad at all, but Garner was

 Although Shane gerathy was head and heels above everyone else.

 And only LT said you were Gash but he also said you deserved it.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I haven't seen the game, but I'm slightly disappointed reading the reaction of some on here.  What happened to when you lose just congratulating the opposition and saying they were the better team on the day.

So far, on here and other online media I've seen that it was down to injuries, down to the referee and down to us cheating at breakdown.  Here it's that we were gash.  Amazingly, when we beat Falcons, their fans reckon we were gash, and now having beaten Tigers, their fans say we were gash also.

Maybe it's the way forward, sorry Quins and Sarries fans, but you lot were gash when you beat us, just marginally less gash than we obviously are!

I'm not sure how you can argue against what people are saying when you haven't even seen the game? Surely if your going to counter their argument you need to have seen the game?

Ozzy3213 wrote:Welsh have been gash, Gloucester have been marginally less gash doc.  

Nathan, I don't need to counter their argument as I'm not arguing. The scoreboard says we won, so we were the better side, what level that was at is immaterial. Losing and labelling the team that beat you as gash smacks of sour grapes to be honest.

HKC, neither of those are my team and I was commenting as an impartial observor to someone who asked about the game, slightly different context to what has been said here.

Ozzy, your comment was an absolute spot on review of both sides and I have no arguments. But can you dismiss a similar comment purely because it was from an opposition fan?

I'm not dismissing it HKC, I've not said we weren't gash, just that I think it's poor form when you lose a game to labelling your opposition as gash.

I felt pretty gutted and a little hard done by last week when we lost, but I never slated Saracens, nor did I blame the referee. On here I applauded Saracens ballsiness in going for the win at the end. I thought we were all rugby fans and whilst we may be disappointed in our teams result/performance we would shake our opponents hand and say well done. Obviously I was mistaken.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I'm not dismissing it HKC, I've not said we weren't gash, just that I think it's poor form when you lose a game to labelling your opposition as gash.  

I felt pretty gutted and a little hard done by last week when we lost, but I never slated Saracens, nor did I blame the referee.  On here I applauded Saracens ballsiness in going for the win at the end.  I thought we were all rugby fans and whilst we may be disappointed in our teams result/performance we would shake  our opponents hand and say well done.  Obviously I was mistaken.

Perhaps because Saracens weren't gash last week.

I don't see what the problem, you always get games that don't flow or have many errors etc

Gents,
Methinks LT was breaking down how his team played for the most part. He didn't think it was a well played game. Sounded OK to me.

not for nuthin' I am very happy your London Irish are moving up the ladder..............

I said that Irish deserved to win, but I refuse to say they played well when they did not. They played better than us and really had a chance towards the end of the first half to absolutely blow us away.

So for anyone with a persecution complex or who cannot actually read


Well done London Irish - you were the better team on the day.

To be fair also to Tigers fans, that've just been hammered by Bath and now lost at home to a team they probably (wrongly it turns out) feel are way below them. There are always going to be fans who in this situation act out a little.

I think we've all said the same at different times too

yappysnap wrote:To be fair also to Tigers fans, that've just been hammered by Bath and now lost at home to a team they probably (wrongly it turns out) feel are way below them. There are always going to be fans who in this situation act out a little.

I think we've all said the same at different times too

Well I did predicted them to win by 13 (which I was nearly right again).

 So I blame myself really for being so damn bloody good at guessing match results.

I have no persecution complex, and can read perfectly well thank you.  The line you felt you needed to enlarge there would have sufficed in isolation at the start if I'm being honest, but like the Murphys, I'm not bitter, I'm sat here happily supping away enjoying what has been a top day for me.

For those who are challenged in the reading department however and picked up on one part of my initial comment and decided that it was directed at LT, it wasn't, it was a general comment based on what I'd read back on here, along with on Twitter and numerous threads like this one... http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s103.htm?106,14916440.

As I've said, a simple well done and we'll see you for the return later in the season would suffice in my very humble opinion.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I have no persecution complex, and can read perfectly well thank you.  The line you felt you needed to enlarge there would have sufficed in isolation at the start if I'm being honest, but like the Murphys, I'm not bitter, I'm sat here happily supping away enjoying what has been a top day for me.

For those who are challenged in the reading department however and picked up on one part of my initial comment and decided that it was directed at LT, it wasn't, it was a general comment based on what I'd read back on here, along with on Twitter and numerous threads like this one... http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s103.htm?106,14916440.

As I've said, a simple well done and we'll see you for the return later in the season would suffice in my very humble opinion.

 To be fair the thread of that title could have been regarding his Crane gameplay........

 I kid in love crane, although Pearce is the future watching him today make a couple of runs.

 Also considering you used the word Gash and LT was the only person to use that word you can see why some people put 2 +2 together and made 5.

 TBH Twitter is awful for these things.

No surprises that Garner was poor, I don't like insulting referees as they cop flack and have a hard job where usually people will be displeased but GG seems to be a repeat offender in matches I've watched

Oh I forgot the most gashest award. That goes to the sizeable portion of the crowd who were booing as Geraghty took the match winning kick, despite the PA man begging them not to. I do not care whether the crowd disagree with the decision, if as a club you try and claim a moral high ground over issues like this it should be uniform.
I always applaud scores by the opposition, on this occasion I was willing the kick to be successful (while hoping we would come back and sneak a try at the end of course).

Sorry Ozzy but you're so far wide of the mark here that I really don't know where to start. First of all, if you're gonna start a rant by specifically stating that you're upset with 'some on here' at least have the decency to quote or reference the people you are talking about. Then, when you're challenged on the points you make (and some pretty clear hypocrisy) , don't link to another website that has little or nothing to do with the people here.

I have no idea at all how you saying LW and Glaws were both poor is any different than anyone - even a Tigers fan - saying both teams today were poor. To me

Ozzy3213 wrote:
HKC, neither of those are my team and I was commenting as an impartial observor to someone who asked about the game, slightly different context to what has been said here.

just doesn't cut is as an excuse. Really, why does being a fan of a team prevent you from making perfectly valid observations about a game involving them?

Remember you didn't win anything, just as I didn't lose anything. We're just fans of a sport with preferences to particular clubs who watched a game involving them (or rather I watched a game?). It makes me slightly sad that you feel we should be congratulating you rather than commenting on the match in the same way we would comment on Northampton vs Bath.

LondonTiger wrote:Oh I forgot the most gashest award. That goes to the sizeable portion of the crowd who were booing as Geraghty took the match winning kick, despite the PA man begging them not to. I do not care whether the crowd disagree with the decision, if as a club you try and claim a moral high ground over issues like this it should be uniform.
I always applaud scores by the opposition, on this occasion I was willing the kick to be successful (while hoping we would come back and sneak a try at the end of course).

That's awful and I really hope the club at least put out a few messages this week to remind people of expected behaviour. Hitting the social networks and a few emails would be a start. Were they given the appropriate shhh treatment?

Irish werent great today, just snuck past a poor depleted tigers side. A good win whatever the circumstances though. Skiv, cowan and geraghty stood out for me as an irish fan.

Let's not worry about the gash-o-meter boys and girls, nor focus too much on the specifics of what people said. We have been doing this for a while and know where everyone comes from.

Just wait until I make my comment about Saints falling asleep on a very good Bath team and almost allowing the match to end in a draw. That was gas....ga.....gawd awful.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
That's awful and I really hope the club at least put out a few messages this week to remind people of expected behaviour. Hitting the social networks and a few emails would be a start. Were they given the appropriate shhh treatment?

The PA announcer begged for silence, but it felt like at least half the crowd were booing. It certainly was not a "vocal minority".

Personally I am in favour of silence at kicking time - but have no objections to crowd noise, but then do not try and claim some undeserved moral high ground.

Fuzzy, I said all I wanted and/or needed to last night, but thanks for trying to re start an argument this morning.  


I saw talk of the booing on twitter, and to be fair, most Tigers fans on there appeared to be annoyed about it and were very vocal in there condemning of it.

doctor_grey wrote:Let's not worry about the gash-o-meter boys and girls, nor focus too much on the specifics of what people said.  We have been doing this for a while and know where everyone comes from.    

Just wait until I make my comment about Saints falling asleep on a very good Bath team and almost allowing the match to end in a draw.  That was gas....ga.....gawd awful.  

Don't worry, Quins are getting ready for a late charge up the g@&h -oh- meter. We'll soon be second place (behind an obviously worse Exeter

Shall we just cut out use of the word gash?! Seems like it could solve a few problems!

is it just me or did Gonava pick up the ball from an offside position at the ruck for his try? Didn't look like he was at the back.

That can't have happened Thunor, Cockers has said all the refereeing decisions went our way!

Ozzy3213 wrote:Fuzzy, I said all I wanted and/or needed to last night, but thanks for trying to re start an argument this morning.  

Oh come on be fair. Replying to a couple of posts that were likely in some part to have been directed at me is hardly unreasonable. However I don't think either of us is getting anything from this and there are much better (or should I say less gash?) things we could be talking about  

SirBurger wrote:Shall we just cut out use of the word gash?! Seems like it could solve a few problems!

What a gash idea.

See Sloan is injured already. Bodes well, anyone know if Lowe or Hopper are close to fit again?

I never really rated Waldrom when He turned out for England. Now he's playing for Exeter, he's challenging to be one of the best No.8s in the Premiership.

Fslcons started superbly, now we're 17-6 down

Rugby Fan wrote:I never really rated Waldrom when He turned out for England. Now he's playing for Exeter, he's challenging to be one of the best No.8s in the Premiership.

Thought he was unlucky to get pinged for offside early on for Quins first 3 pointer - looked like he started from behind the back foot but was just quick off the mark ...

So it's looking like wins for the Chiefs and Wasps then.

Not even half time yet, Ozzy

In a season where wingers have so far been very prominent, Marlon Yarde has not shown us a great deal. You'd hope for more from a player who is often regarded as being the leading candidate for his position with England.

Rugby Fan wrote:In a season where wingers have so far been very prominent, Marlon Yarde has not shown us a great deal. You'd hope for more from a player who is often regarded as being the leading candidate for his position with England.

He has been hampered by the rest of our backs' cack handling

Always a risk moving clubs, can take time to settle. Yarde will need to raise his game as the season progresses if he wants to keep the England shirt. Quality player though, and I think he'll be ok.

I think he'll be better for England then he is for Quins this season. Quins have too many issues for him to get many chances currently.

19-6 at half time and we're playing very poorly, back line just look lost ball in hand at the mo. Exeter on the other hand are just doing what's needed, keeping things simple and taking the points. Very well organised. The opposite of us.

17-11 to Wasps.

We've had a bit more of the game but yet again allow sides to score every time they enter our 22. Wasps scrum on top. Riki Tipuna excellent, Socino's distribution has been awful (and he's missed 2 easy kicks again)