Aviva Premiership Round Five

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 30 Sep 2014, 7:46 am

First topic message reminder :

Four rounds gone, and there has been no let up in the entertainment served up in the Aviva Premiership this season. Round four began at the Kassam Stadium on Friday night, where London Welsh were in the game for an hour before capitulating and giving up another big score to a Gloucester side who barely got out of second gear. Saturday afternoon saw three games, with Saints vs. Bath being the TV pick. The champions showed why they are the champions in this one, dominating the early part of the game against a Bath side buoyed by the result the week before, and by the time Bath got into the game, it was a little too late and a losing bonus point was all they could muster. Slightly earlier in the day, Saracens marked their first game of the season at Allianz Park with a try bonus point win over Sale, and London Irish backed up a good performance last week against Saracens by beating a beleagured Tigers team at Welford Road for just the second time in the last 91 years. On Sunday, Exeter Chiefs maintained their good start to the season, living off of numerous errors from and out of form Quins side to pick up a comfortable win at home, and Wasps bagged a try bonus point against a Falcons side who showed plenty of endeavour, but lacked in the execution department.

Prediction wise, it was a bumper week for me, with 6 from 6, which meant my acca with the man at Corals came in, and I picked up a couple of yellow caps in the SuperBru leagues. So here's the table after round 4:-

POS	TEAM	P	W	D	L	F	A	DIFF	TF	TA	TBP	LBP	PTS
1.	Saracens	4	4	0	0	149	79	+70	14	10	2	0	18
2.	Northampton Saints	4	3	0	1	135	60	+75	17	6	3	1	16
3.	Bath Rugby	4	3	0	1	151	77	+74	17	10	2	1	15
4.	Exeter Chiefs	4	3	0	1	133	59	+74	13	6	1	1	14
5.	Wasps	4	2	0	2	106	94	+12	12	9	1	2	11
6.	London Irish	4	2	0	2	89	93	-4	7	9	1	2	11
7.	Gloucester	4	2	0	2	108	115	-7	12	14	1	1	10
8.	Leicester Tigers	4	2	0	2	79	104	-25	7	10	1	1	10
9.	Harlequins	4	2	0	2	59	113	-54	5	9	0	0	8
10.	Sale Sharks	4	1	0	3	112	111	+1	15	10	2	1	7
11.	Newcastle Falcons	4	0	0	4	63	126	-63	8	14	0	1	1
12.	London Welsh	4	0	0	4	44	197	-153	6	26	1	0	1

So, on to this weeks fixtures, and here they are;-

Friday 3rd October 2014 19:45 Bath Rugby vs. Saracens

What should be the game of the round is first up this week, and it's likely to prove to be a fiesty affair. Going by last seasons meetings between these two sides there is clearly no love lost and I'll be amazed if there aren't a few cards in this one. If there are, those 10 minute periods where one team is not at full strength could be crucial, and it will be the most clinical of the two sides who will win. Saracens will want to protect their unbeaten record, but Bath, having lost to Saints will have a point to prove and are at home. This is a massive test for them, and will tell us a lot about whether they are genuine title contenders or not. I think they'll pass the test, and pick up a narrow win, with Saracens bagging a losing bonus point.

Saturday 4th October 2014 15:00 Harlequins vs. London Welsh

Quins are desperate for a cohesive performance, to give them something to build on, and Welsh are just desperate for anything they can get from games right now. It's no good Justin Burnell whinging about referees and level playing fields, he needs to sort out that defence, which has been quite frankly appalling and barely Championship standard so far this season. His team will need to show real heart and desire against a Quins side who will undoubtedly be targeting 5 points here. I just can't see it to be honest, and thing Quins will cruise to victory in this one and leave Welsh rooted firmly to the bottom of the table.

Saturday 4th October 2014 15:00 London Irish vs. Northampton Saints

As ever with my own team I don't know who to call this one. Heart as always says 'we got this' but the head says Saints are the strongest side in the league and this one could well be a struggle. Having lost away at Wasps, Saints will not want a second slip up in the opening block of games, and will be very focused going in to this one. Irish will be confident having taken 6 points from the last two games against Sarries and Tigers. Tactics will have to be spot on for Irish, as the game plans deployed against their two previous employments will not get the job done against Saints. Almost as an emotional insurance I am going to tip Saints here, with us getting a losing bonus point, but on SuperBru and in my acca, I have to back my team.

Saturday 4th October 2014 15:15 Gloucester vs. Leicester Tigers

I heard someone say yesterday that Kingsholm is the last place Tigers will want to be going at the moment, but I actually think the opposite. Yes it's an intimidating atmosphere and tough place to go, but actually in their current plight, other than running in tries for fun against Welsh, a tough one like this is just what they need. They will have to front up, and for all that Gloucester have improved on last season, they have been a little hit and miss so far, and are work in progress rather than the finished article. James Hook will need to improve on Fridays performance, and if he does they have a sparkling back line that can hurt Leicester, but the Tigers back line is none to shabby either, and there pack has enough in it to compete. It's a tough call, but I can't see Tigers losing 3 on the bounce, and I think they'll nick this one on the road.

Sunday 5th October 2014 14:00 Sale Sharks vs. London Wasps

Sale haven't played terribly this season, but results haven't gone their way. Wasps have looked decent both in victory and defeat, and will have genuine ambitions to finish in the top 6, if not the top 4. The breakdown will be the key here. Wasps back row have been excellent, and given quick ball to Simpson and Goode and with the pace they have outside of them they will hurt teams. Sale have to slow this down and make this a dog fight, as they don't have the firepower to win a shootout. Steve Diamond is no fool though, and he will know exactly how he wants his team to play. Wasps are probably favourites, but I'm going with Sale to dig this one out at home, Wasps to get the losing bonus point.

Sunday 5th October 2014 15:00 Newcastle Falcons vs. Exeter Chiefs

Exeter are my surprise package this season. I genuinely thought their recruitment hadn't be great and they would be in that 7th to 10th group in the final shake up. So far, new boy Thomas Waldrom, and academy graduates Sam Hill and Henry Slade are putting in performances that mean their sights will be set a whole lot higher than that. Falcons are struggling. In some ways, it's difficult to see why, as there is definitely some talent there. They are very difficult to predict on this early in the week, as nobody has any clue what side Dean Richards will send out, and this has to be part of the issue. I think it's 20 games without a win now, and they know they need to break that sequence soon if they are to put some distance between them and Welsh. On paper, this is a Chiefs win, but I just have a feeling that Falcons might up it for this one and cause an upset. There, I've said it, Falcons win, losing bonus point for the Chiefs!

Ozzy's redicted table after round 5:

Northampton Saints 20, Bath Rugby 19, Saracens 19, Exeter Chiefs 15, Leicester Tigers 14, Harlequins 13, Wasps 12, London Irish 12, Sale Sharks 11, Gloucester 11, Newcastle Falcons 5, London Welsh 1.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 8:49 pm

Bathite wrote:If Roko isn't in the EPS we have missed a massive opportunity

Reckon he and Yarde will be the wings vs. the All Blacks.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 03 Oct 2014, 8:52 pm

Great team try puts Eastmond over. Bath would be romping ahead if Ford hadn't been wayward with the boot today.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 8:56 pm

I will tell you what as well, Joseph has looked bloody good this season. His silky running always reminded me of Guscott and I would love to see him in and around the England squad.

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:03 pm

Should be crushing this. fords first bad game with the boot and sarries are in this despite being totally dominated

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:06 pm

Ford needed to convert and does, he's been consistent up until tonight and he will need to nail the pressure kicks to kick on for international honours.

by BigTrevsbigmac Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:07 pm

Bathite wrote:Should be crushing this. fords first bad game with the boot and sarries are in this despite being totally dominated

I don't think he was that hot against Saints Bathite, I still rate him though & that seems to be his one inconsistency.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:13 pm

I'm not liking Bath's prospects in the scrum, we'll see here.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:13 pm

Ford has now missed from in front of the posts. That's 14 points gone begging for Bath. They still lead by 21-10 with 13 minutes left.

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:15 pm

Yeah I agree. Can't be at the Tigers game level every week. Just thought he'd sorted the tee kicking. Only missed two all season until tonight.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:16 pm

Bathite wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Bath seem to be getting away with murder, high challenges, no arm challenges, late hits with Sarries being picked up for everything (except Kelly Brown and the invisibility cloak he has borrowed from McCaw).

Greg Garner is quite possibly the worst ref I have ever seen and has achieved the impossible and made be feel sorry for chris Ashton.

Still a bit bitter?

Bitter about what?

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:17 pm

Well shut my mouth, although I think Bath were a little fortunate to get the penalty.

I'm a huge fan of Ford, he's one of the most naturally talented players I have seen but he need to take the pressure kicks.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:21 pm

Aye, Eastmond has looked good. I think he got done a little in the third test against NZ because England got done up front, he's looked great this season. Ollie Devoto on and Bath have got an embarrassment of riches in the centres.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:24 pm

That's the game, Bath have really deserved it.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:28 pm

I've been really pleasantly surprised to see Bath's young replacement props have the upper hand in the second half.

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:30 pm

Should have humped them by more. But it is the defensive effort that has really pleased me. Really worked out Sarries game plan, didn't commit at the breakdown, smashed the 1 out and 2 out channels, not letting their carriers get going

by **LondonTiger** Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:34 pm

Bath's defence was excellent. Comfortably the better team. I thought they might choke under the pressure, but possibly except for Ford's goal kicking they did not.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:35 pm

Bathite wrote:Should have humped them by more. But it is the defensive effort that has really pleased me. Really worked out Sarries game plan, didn't commit at the breakdown, smashed the 1 out and 2 out channels, not letting their carriers get going

To be fair, Sarries were denied the BP and not many teams do that. The result never really seemed in doubt in the second half. A big statement from Bath I think.

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:38 pm

Not sure we were ever under any pressure to be fair. Defence was awesome

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:39 pm

Bloody hell, I'm trying to pay your team a compliment. Very Happy

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:40 pm

Ha! Wasn't trying to be smug, sorry

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:42 pm

Bathite wrote:Ha! Wasn't trying to be smug, sorry

No worries, enjoy it.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:48 pm

Serious marker laid down by Bath there. So much pace in their back line they are always going to be dangerous in any game.

by Cumbrian Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:57 pm

Anyway, goodnight. Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa2nLEhUcZ0

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 9:58 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Serious marker laid down by Bath there. So much pace in their back line they are always going to be dangerous in any game.

Step in the right direction, but still need to prove we can beat the big boys away from home. cant wait for louw and Garvey to get fit again

by TJ Fri 03 Oct 2014, 11:03 pm

I watched the Bath Sarries game - a few thoughts - ( correct me if I am wrong) It seemed the ball was not in play much at all. The two teams negated each other bar a couple of bits of individual brilliance from Bath - some pace in that back line but I saw little creativity from either side bar the individual efforts - it all seemed rather pedestrian and obvious - defenses closing it all down or safety first rugby? Looked to me like Bath needed to chip over the top to slow the blitz down - loads of room for it. Few clever plays - just about wearing them down? Wrong impression?

by Bathite Fri 03 Oct 2014, 11:34 pm

I got the complete opposite impression, but I'm biased.

by TJ Fri 03 Oct 2014, 11:49 pm

Certainly took their chances well and I was seriously impressed with those two quick backs

by HammerofThunor Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:31 am

Your standards are clearly higher than ours from watching the mighty Glasgow. I am surprised you watch so much English rugby when you find it as boring as sin.

by TJ Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:42 am

I watched it because I thought it would be an entertaining game and I was a bit disappointed. rather than sniping tell me why my impression was wrong? Defense on top or uninventive rugby? Where were the clever plays to unlock the defenses? Sarries especially showed little inventiveness I thought - its just an opinion and a question or two. Certainly a far higher standard than my team - the mighty Edinburgh!

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 04 Oct 2014, 6:42 am

Bathite wrote:I got the complete opposite impression, but I'm biased.

I did to and I'm not.

by HongKongCherry Sat 04 Oct 2014, 7:29 am

TJ, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I thought that was a fabulous game. It didn't break into free flowing rugby and it did require moments of brilliance to unlock the respectively excellent defences, but for me it was the intensity of the ball carrying, the tackling and the breakdown that made it a hugely entertaining game.

by Hound of Harrow Sat 04 Oct 2014, 8:59 am

HongKongCherry wrote:TJ, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I thought that was a fabulous game. It didn't break into free flowing rugby and it did require moments of brilliance to unlock the respectively excellent defences, but for me it was the intensity of the ball carrying, the tackling and the breakdown that made it a hugely entertaining game.

Yup. In the AP tackling and organised defence is not optional, apart from LW in the last 20 minutes; but that's a team who are not fit enough at this level.

There are many ways in which a game of rugby can be 'entertaining', and that includes having an appreciation of good defence.

I remember watching Saracens v Newcastle in 1998 when both teams were going for the title. There were some stellar names in both sides, and the game was won by Sarries in the dying moments by a huge Michael Lynagh drop goal. Now that game was not a thing of beauty, but it was gripping stuff for the 19,000 sell out crowd - and played out in a cracking, tension filled atmosphere.

thumbsup

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 04 Oct 2014, 9:10 am

I don't think I need to add to what others have said about last nights game, was great entertainment.

Super excited about this afternoon. Going to be tough against the champions, but our last outing at the MadStad was a cracker and am hoping this one will be too!

by TightHEAD Sat 04 Oct 2014, 9:49 am

It was a great game, the hits were fabulous to watch I really enjoyed it but Fords kicking isn't good enough yet for international rugby which is a shame as he has everything else IMO.

I can't understand how a rugby fan wouldn't have enjoyed that game?

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 04 Oct 2014, 9:52 am

Didn't catch it all but the snipets I seen it looked a quality game. Some of Bath's tackling was immense, high quality stuff.

You were right about Auterec Bathite, the Bath scrum looked immense at the end of the game. Can we have Shiels back pls?

by DaveM Sat 04 Oct 2014, 10:12 am

First time I've posted this season, but that was such a great game I felt I had to. The intensity and the skills were excellent - that's one of the highest quality games I've seen in the AP. The AP really seems to be moving forward.

More please!

by stnick88 Sat 04 Oct 2014, 10:33 am

You going today pete? I think we might struggle but hoping to be surprised again. I would take a LBP.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 04 Oct 2014, 11:18 am

I am mate. Am nervous, hoping for a win, but will be happy with a good performance and getting something from the game.

by SirBurger Sat 04 Oct 2014, 11:36 am

I am usually fairly pessimistic before games but I have woken up with a really strong feeling in my bones that we are going to win today. I would be more confident if Treviranus was available as I think the pack lacks a bit of carrying power, but I think we can target Saints at the breakdown with Cowan and use our choke-tackling to stop their big ball-carriers. If we can do that I think we will carve up one or two opportunities, which if we take I think will lead to us sneaking the win.

Apologies if my optimism backfires!

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 04 Oct 2014, 11:45 am

If we lose I'm blaming you SB!!! Wink

by SirBurger Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:04 pm

Don't worry - I will be blaming myself as well. I can't decide if this rain is going to play into our hands or not. Apparently it may clear up but the conditions still aren't going to be great. Bringing a group of people with me who haven't really been since we were actually decent so hopefully we can perform at about those levels today!

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:09 pm

I've just checked the forecast which says heavy rain until 1, then light rain until 2, then dry for the rest of the afternoon. Might be slippy underfoot, but hopefully if the rain stays off during the game then passes can still go to hand.

by TJ Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:20 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:TJ, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I thought that was a fabulous game. It didn't break into free flowing rugby and it did require moments of brilliance to unlock the respectively excellent defences, but for me it was the intensity of the ball carrying, the tackling and the breakdown that made it a hugely entertaining game.

Ta - so a great defensive display not dull attacking? Ta for the thoughts.

so which is the pick of todays games to watch? Gloucester / Leicester?

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:26 pm

Why does a good defensive display automatically equal dull attacking?

When defences are good it usually takes a high quality attack to unlock them. I think that's what we seen last night.

If you find the AP boring, don't watch it.

by TJ Sat 04 Oct 2014, 12:33 pm

Sarge - thats not what I said - I said that it appears the verdict was that it was a great defensive display by both NOT dull attacking as was my impression.

by Cumbrian Sat 04 Oct 2014, 3:10 pm

Looking like another long day at the office for L.Welsh.

by yappysnap Sat 04 Oct 2014, 3:11 pm

Quins 7-0 up after 4 mins with a good team try finished by Brown

by Cumbrian Sat 04 Oct 2014, 3:14 pm

14-0 now and Harlequins are now scoring more than a point a minute...

by Cumbrian Sat 04 Oct 2014, 3:15 pm

Chance for Welsh to get on the score board.

by yappysnap Sat 04 Oct 2014, 3:25 pm

Care makes it 14-0 14 mins gone

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