England Wingers

I've been thinking and I can't decide who I want to represent England on the wings. So i'm going to look at options on both the right and the left wing.

Right Wing

S.Rokodeguni - Bath - Uncapped
J.Nowell - Exeter - 5 Caps
C.Wade - Wasps - 1 Cap
M.Yarde - Quins - 5 Caps
C.Ashton - Saracens - 39 Caps
C.Sharples - Gloucester - 4 Caps
T.Brady - Sale - Uncapped
T.Ojo - L.Irish - 2 Caps

Left Wing

A.Watson - Bath - Uncapped
J.May - Gloucester - 7 Caps
B.Foden - Saints - 34 Caps
D.Strettle - Saracens - 14 Caps
U.Monye - Quins - 14 Caps
T.Arscott - Sale - Uncapped
T.Varndell - Wasps - 4 Caps
M.Benjamin - Leicester - Uncapped

Who would you choose and why?

Me I would go for any of these in this order:
 
RW Yarde, Wade, whilst looking at Roko.
LW  Watson, May, Whilst looking at Benjamin.
FB   Brown, Nowell, whilst looking at Foden (to see if he can be consistent).

 Personally if Benjamin can be fit for the season he will get  a shot come 6N if May hasn't performed like he can at Glous.

R4E

From your list I would discount Foden as a winger (although should be on the bench as the back 3 substitute when Brown is starting as FB) and Strettle (has had plenty of chances, but seems to be one of those excellent club players that struggles with the step up to international level).

I really want to see Wade get a chance - he was going to be Bomber's pick last year, but injury got in the way. Let's see if his instinctive and creative brand of attacking play is more of an asset for England than his less than stellar defence.

On the other wing, I've always liked the idea of having the fastest guy available provided he's not an absolute liability as a player (Nigel Walker springs to mind), which would mean giving Varndell another chance - his club partnership with Wade would be a potential positive as well. Doubt it will happen though, and suspect Yarde or Ashton will be kept on one wing and Wade on the other for the first couple of matches.

I'd pick anyone who is in form for their clubs.

There are a lot of talented guys on that list, but I'd go for the guys who can slip through a gap or out sprint the oppositions wingers.

Yarde, Wade, Watson, May, Foden and Nowell would be my pick in no particular order.

I agree with dummyhalf - I hope & believe it will be Yarde & Wade for starters

Wade & Ashton to start.

Foden at full back (because he's played a lot with Ashton).

Or alternatively

Wade & the best performing winger before the AIs

Brown at full back

Problem with a few of the options:

Ashton - England haven't been getting the best out of him due to not utilising his strengths. Defence isn't great.

Yarde - Poor start to club season, tackling is arguably worse than Ashton

Wade - unproven at international level, is his defence good enough?

Nowell - not a great start to the season, struggles to score tries (poor finisher), not really a winger.

Benjamin - injured most of the time, unproven and hasn't really excelled at club level.

Watson - injured at the moment, unproven (you can see this is a pattern)

Strettle - excellent club player but hasn't stepped up at international level.

Foden - not a winger.

May - hasn't been an effective attacker at international level.

Rokodiguini - unproven.

I was pretty settled on Wade and Yarde at the start of the season but Yarde has not had an impressive start to the season and his lack of awareness in allowing Ashton to blaze past him in that early fixture is unforgivable.

I see wing as a form position, and confidence is key. Were I picking an England team for the weekend I'd probably go with Wade and Ashton. May is an outside bet as he's clearly liked by Lancaster as has serious pace and the other bolter for me would be Rokoduguni who is such a balanced and dangerous broken field runner.

FES good post. Can't argue with that.

Rokodiguini is definitely an option we could consider agreed. Would be a nice comparison to Wade.

May looks good at club level but still unconvinced at international level.

No Matt Banahan?

Funny to think Mat Tait has won more caps on the wing for England than half a dozen or so of those names.

I notice no-one has raised the idea of Manu on the wing again.

Be nice to see Matt Tait involved again but I cant see it happening.

Now the other name that has almost slipped under the radar is Pennell. I dont think there is any reason (other than quality of opposition) that should stop him being picked from the championship?

lostinwales pennell is not a winger unless you advocate putting another full back on the wing like Foden,Brown and Nowell.

The two "wingers" I would rule out are Mike Brown and Manu Tuilagi.

Thanks for the blue sky thinking Stuart, but along with Lawes at 6 and Wood at 8 those ideas really ought to be consigned to the history books.

I think its irrelevant who you pick until the tactics change. You may as well have Barritt out there at least he'll be defensively sound!

FES totally agree.

Geordiefalcon I agree. Well that's why Nowell is out there because to be fair to him he's more defensively sound than Ashton or Yarde.

Also he is a proper Lancaster winger - he is a full back, doesn't score tries but that's not what Lancaster wants.

Even a player as elusive as Wade will be useless if he's not given enough ball or space.

None of the current wingers are boshers. They can't crash it up like North for example.

As you say FES - perhaps Rokodiguini fits Lancaster's winger ethos the best.

Jack Nowell is in there because he does all the basics so well, he could probably fill in across the back line and not look out of place, he's also put on 8kg of muscle after his injury at the end of the 6 nations so is more ready for the higher intensity of international rugby.

I think Ashton Nowell and Brown will get the jerseys for NZ with Foden on the bench

Ashton and Nowell are both right wings (Nowell maybe more of a 15 long term). I wouldn't like to predict who SL will pick in the EPS, but at least they will/should be picking on form.

If the coaching team want us to continue the focus on defence (and given the size and physicality of the oppo, I think we will) then expect Nowell or Rokoduguni and Yarde or May to feature. It doesn't matter who we pick unless Tuilagi looks to pass more.

I could be well wrong mind!

Would like to see Rokodugini get a chance but wary of some of the unproven guys being picked against Samoa for example. I think you find out more about these guys if you really throw them in the deep end, so against one of SA/Aus/NZ. Might seem risky with people clamouring for wins to set a marker before the World Cup next year but you need to see whether these guys can really cut it and what better way to find out.

May - club player
Nowell - not a winger
Yarde - been poor in Premiership but good in an England shirt for the most part so will retain his place.
Strettle - some of his failed finishes at international level were unforgiveable. Will be top try scorer in Premiership this year (maybe Varndell)
Varndell - Lancaster won't pick him. Best finisher along with Wade but Lancaster seems to have set his stall out with a couple of the younger guys
Watson - looks dangerous and offers a wing/fb option. Needs to be tested a few times at the very top level
Rokoduguni - like him a lot. Hope he gets a chance and takes it. Good counter to someone smaller/quicker on the other wing. Proven finisher.
Wade - scores some unbelivable tries but as mentioned by others question marks over his defence (that Lions game was terrible!). Wade v Savea...

Have been really impressed w Roko this season so far. He is getting better and better. Against the likes of NZ who kick the ball infield more than any other team, Roko would be an excellent counter-attacking option alongside Brown.

For that alone I would pick him against the ABs

I think May is more than a club player, but suspect confidence at international level may be an issue. He does seem to have a fantastic skill set and pace to burn.

robshaw4england wrote:
S.Rokodeguni - Bath - Uncapped

Thats a very traditional English looking name, the biggest playing pool in the world and you are still doing things like this, how many Kiwi's/South Africans/Fijians/Samoans do you have playing for your national side at the moment ?

Whats the Wales and British Lions No8 called?

As far as I'm concerned Roko has taken the Queens shilling and that makes him whatever he wants to be, British, English etc.

LordDowlais wrote:

robshaw4england wrote:
S.Rokodeguni - Bath - Uncapped

Thats a very traditional English looking name, the biggest playing pool in the world and you are still doing things like this, how many Kiwi's/South Africans/Fijians/Samoans do you have playing for your national side at the moment ?

Well why dont you list them...then we can calmly correct you.....

Well said Tighthead.

He's served in the British army - of course he should be allowed to represent England if he wants to.

I wouldn't be against Roko and Wade vs ABs.

LordDowlais wrote:

robshaw4england wrote:
S.Rokodeguni - Bath - Uncapped

Thats a very traditional English looking name, the biggest playing pool in the world and you are still doing things like this, how many Kiwi's/South Africans/Fijians/Samoans do you have playing for your national side at the moment ?

The pot and kettle come to mind.

LordDowlais wrote:

robshaw4england wrote:
S.Rokodeguni - Bath - Uncapped

Thats a very traditional English looking name, the biggest playing pool in the world and you are still doing things like this, how many Kiwi's/South Africans/Fijians/Samoans do you have playing for your national side at the moment ?

Pot and kettle much???

Back on topic, I think if he is fit Yarde will definitely take one of the wing spots. Out of all the potential wingers being discussed he is the only stuck on player.  Then you look around at the other wingers for who to partner him.

I agree with Beshocked regarding Foden in relation to Ashton.  If you look at most of Ashton’s best games, they were alongside Fodens, if Foden is in I’d consider playing Ashton.

I’m a fan of Nowell and was pleased that he got called up the first time around.  Personally I would choose a combination of

Yarde
Wade
Rokodiguni
Nowell and/or May

I think Bomber is going to find a place for Anthony Watson in the squad too, so he’ll slot in somewhere in the back three.

We only have Faletua, and he has been living in Wales since he was about 6yrs old, people like Jake Ball have a Welsh parent at least.

For Geordie, I will list a few, just off the top of my head:-

Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Brad Barritt
Dylan Hartley

LordDowlais wrote:We only have Faletua, and he has been living in Wales since he was about 6yrs old, people like Jake Ball have a Welsh parent at least.

For Geordie, I will list a few, just off the top of my head:-

Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Brad Barritt
Dylan Hartley

In the land of the cyclops, the two eyed are treated as extremists.

I can imagine there is a degree of upset that the vunipolas went east of the severn rather than follow their cousin into the red shirted ranks. The other two examples are very poor choices, they being every bit as English as, say North, JD2 (and no doubt a fair few more) are Welsh. They have family ties, its just they were born elsewhere

LordDowlais wrote:We only have Faletua, and he has been living in Wales since he was about 6yrs old, people like Jake Ball have a Welsh parent at least.

Why get defensive, you brought it up!
Most people in this day and age just accept that things have changed since the 1950s.

Yep ^ Hartley's mother is English for sure

lostinwales wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:We only have Faletua, and he has been living in Wales since he was about 6yrs old, people like Jake Ball have a Welsh parent at least.

For Geordie, I will list a few, just off the top of my head:-

Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Brad Barritt
Dylan Hartley

In the land of the cyclops, the two eyed are treated as extremists.

I can imagine there is a degree of upset that the vunipolas went east of the severn rather than follow their cousin into the red shirted ranks. The other two examples are very poor choices, they being every bit as English as, say North, JD2 (and no doubt a fair few more) are Welsh. They have family ties, its just they were born elsewhere

He perhaps wants to ignore:

Andries Pretorius (South Africa)
Alex Cuthbert (England)
Aarron Jarvis (England)

If I could be arsed digging around, I reckon there would be a few more within easy reach.

I know I'm a culprit, but perhaps we shouldn't let him derail a thread which people were actively contributing to.

Cumbrian wrote:I know I'm a culprit, but perhaps we shouldn't let him derail a thread which people were actively contributing to.

Yep, and what is annoying that generally things have been quiet between English and Welsh fans recently. Only takes one 'bright' spark to start a new fire though

Lorddowlais we are talking about England wingers. Not about who is or isn't eligible for Wales.

Brad Barritt has plenty of British relatives.

I think Lancaster will pick

Yarde
Nowell
Brown

I think England should pick either

Roko
Wade/Ashton
Brown/Foden

Yes, back on topic

I'm still keen on seeing Yarde, Wade and Brown work as a back three, but definitely see the arguments for the likes of Roko, Watson, Nowell etc.

I'm also a fan of May, but agree he hasn't shown enough in his opportunities to date.

Wade has to be given a go if fit, but I think SL will go with Watson off the bench at some point as he can cover FB too.

Seriously, you English lot on here are sooooo precious, I am only having a bit of banter with you, and straight away it's bite, bite, bite, your like a pool of piranhas. I have loads of English friends and none of them are like you lot on here when I tease them, they just give as good as they get, especially when they come into my office and see me drinking my coffee out of a Welsh Dragon mug, and my grandslam clock on the wall and the what not, please all of you, just lighten up.

Yarde was definite for me before the start of the premiership, where he's been a real disappointment. Wade has looked good as he's been eased back in. 

Currently, I'd probably go May and Wade on the wings if picking on premiership form of players who are in the wider EPS. I think May had a confidence crisis during the Six Nations, but in his performance against NZ he actually backed his pace and ran straight. His outright talent and early season form means he deserves another shot in my eyes. 

Wade because he's simply magical. 

No problem with Nowell starting, who was tenacious and dependable during the Six Nations, albeit fortuitous to get his début because of mounting injuries.

lostinwales wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:We only have Faletua, and he has been living in Wales since he was about 6yrs old, people like Jake Ball have a Welsh parent at least.

For Geordie, I will list a few, just off the top of my head:-

Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Brad Barritt
Dylan Hartley

In the land of the cyclops, the two eyed are treated as extremists.

I can imagine there is a degree of upset that the vunipolas went east of the severn rather than follow their cousin into the red shirted ranks. The other two examples are very poor choices, they being every bit as English as, say North, JD2 (and no doubt a fair few more) are Welsh. They have family ties, its just they were born elsewhere

The Vunipola's are more Welsh than English, but fair play to them, the only gripe is why they chose the easy route for international caps, if they were worth their weight, they would have fought it out with the better players in Wales for the fabled Welsh jersey, but no, they chose the easy path instead, where the competition was easier, just like a lot of other players from the SH who are not hard working enough to battle their way into their own countries squads, never mind, there is always England to fall back on.

I like Nowell, he always seems to beat the 1st tackle but I don't see him as a 1st choice if others are fit.

LordDowlais wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:We only have Faletua, and he has been living in Wales since he was about 6yrs old, people like Jake Ball have a Welsh parent at least.

For Geordie, I will list a few, just off the top of my head:-

Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Brad Barritt
Dylan Hartley

In the land of the cyclops, the two eyed are treated as extremists.

I can imagine there is a degree of upset that the vunipolas went east of the severn rather than follow their cousin into the red shirted ranks. The other two examples are very poor choices, they being every bit as English as, say North, JD2 (and no doubt a fair few more) are Welsh. They have family ties, its just they were born elsewhere

 The Vunipola's are more Welsh than English, but fair play to them, the only gripe is why they chose the easy route for international caps, if they were worth their weight, they would have fought it out with the better players in Wales for the fabled Welsh jersey, but no, they chose the easy path instead, where the competition was easier, just like a lot of other players from the SH who are not hard working enough to battle their way into their own countries squads, never mind, there is always England to fall back on.

Change the record mate, you're boring.

LordDowlais wrote:Seriously, you English lot on here are sooooo precious, I am only having a bit of banter with you, and straight away it's bite, bite, bite, your like a pool of piranhas. I have loads of English friends and none of them are like you lot on here when I tease them, they just give as good as they get, especially when they come into my office and see me drinking my coffee out of a Welsh Dragon mug, and my grandslam clock on the wall and the what not, please all of you, just lighten up.

You might think acting like a poster boy for the BNP is great banter. As someone who has grown up in part of the country where these views are prevelant, you just come across as a *****. Perhaps you should keep you banter for your mates who either know you joking or agree with you. I'm sure we'd all appreciate it.

As for wings, I usually like to give players that have moved clubs time to settle. But Quins generally aren't playing well, so having a 'break' with England where he's possibly slightly more settled might be good for him. I can see any of Yarde, May, Wade, Nowell and Ashton involved. Possibly even Srettle but I don't think Lancaster will go that way.

TightHEAD wrote:I like Nowell, he always seems to beat the 1st tackle but I don't see him as a 1st choice if others are fit.

I could very much see him as Brown mk2. I honestly thought he'd take longer to break back into the squad after last year, although he showed a lot of promise, but so far he is doing well with the limited opportunities he has had and the competition isnt where it could be.

LordDowlais wrote:The Vunipola's are more Welsh than English

I was going to leave it but...on what planet is that true? They had lived longer in England, Billy has said he can hardly even remember his time in Wales. They weren't even qualifies for Wales when they capped. His father was paid to move to Wales...it didn't take that long for him to decide he wanted his family to grow up in England (now tht is banter).

Dowlais, grow up.

There's petty little digs at England and then there's using race and upbringing as a way of furthering your agenda.

It would be interesting if you went up to Rokodeguni and asked if why he didn't have a 'traditional English name'.

Cyril wrote:
It would be interesting if you went up to Rokodeguni and asked if why he didn't have a 'traditional English name'.

Roko seems like a likeable decent chap, I'm sure he wouldn't do or say anything to him but smile and walk away and continue to play the game and serve for Queen and Country.

LordDowlais wrote:Seriously, you English lot on here are sooooo precious, I am only having a bit of banter with you, and straight away it's bite, bite, bite, your like a pool of piranhas. I have loads of English friends and none of them are like you lot on here when I tease them, they just give as good as they get, especially when they come into my office and see me drinking my coffee out of a Welsh Dragon mug, and my grandslam clock on the wall and the what not, please all of you, just lighten up.

I seem to remember a very precious reaction when it was opined that Alun Wyn Jones wasn't worthy of a place in the Lions team if starting tomorrow

lostinwales wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I like Nowell, he always seems to beat the 1st tackle but I don't see him as a 1st choice if others are fit.

I could very much see him as Brown mk2. I honestly thought he'd take longer to break back into the squad after last year, although he showed a lot of promise, but so far he is doing well with the limited opportunities he has had and the competition isnt where it could be.

Yep, I like Nowell's game, anyone who stops Louis Picamoles at full tilt one on one has got to have something about him

Will be interesting in future to see how the FB spot works out, with Brown/Foden not exactly over the hill, Nowell/Watson coming up through the ranks and maybe someone like Hammersley being a long term bet

TightHEAD wrote:

Cyril wrote:
It would be interesting if you went up to Rokodeguni and asked if why he didn't have a 'traditional English name'.

Roko seems like a likeable decent chap, I'm sure he wouldn't do or say anything to him but smile and walk away and continue to play the game and serve for Queen and Country.

I'm sure he wouldn't waste time on Dowlais. He's probably faced his type before and knows how to rise above it.

lostinwales wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I like Nowell, he always seems to beat the 1st tackle but I don't see him as a 1st choice if others are fit.

I could very much see him as Brown mk2. I honestly thought he'd take longer to break back into the squad after last year, although he showed a lot of promise, but so far he is doing well with the limited opportunities he has had and the competition isnt where it could be.

He does seem to beat a lot of defenders, in close quarters too. That's what I like about him- he's industrious and try-hard. 

I agree that he'll struggle to start over others when they're fit, but I think his dependability will always play into his favour. It will be interesting to see how he goes with Exeter now that he's grown some more and feels more ready for the demands of modern rugby. 

Lost, I didn't catch the Exeter game against Harlequins other than the highlights- which only showed Nowell's yellow card. How did he go?