Shanghai Match Thread

[It Must Be Love]

First topic message reminder :

Djokovic defending champion, and the race for WTF hots up !

[laverfan]

Very glad that the Old Man came through. Feel a bit sad for Mayer though. He played an excellent match and kept him on the back foot throughout.

Federer should get to QF, now that he has a tough match under his belt.

[The Special Juan]

One for the statisticians here - I assume Rosewall holds numerous age-related records, so who was the oldest number 1 or 2?

[laverfan]

Most likely Connors or Agassi in Open Era. Pancho G. before that I presume.

[dummy_half]

From a quick googling, Agassi was 33 and about 4 months when he last lost the #1 spot, Connors was just short of 31 (and not quite 33 when he was last #2, although he was still in the top 16 at 37).

Only applies for the period since 1973, when the ATP had the computerised ranking system.

[CaledonianCraig]

Murray off to a flyer against David Ferrer. He leads 5-1 in the first set and is hitting the ball well and playing pretty aggressive. I erred yesterday in that even if Murray wins today he will still be five points behind Raonic in the race to London.

[Born Slippy]

Hmm, yes that is right based on the ATP site. However, the site I usually look at:

http://live-tennis.eu/race

indicates that Andy will be ahead. No idea which one is right although I would say the ATP site has been wrong before.

[Born Slippy]

Boss set from Andy. 18 winners to 8 errors. Only dropped 4 points on serve. Needs to hold focus at the start of Set 2.

[CaledonianCraig]

Boss set from Andy. 18 winners to 8 errors. Only dropped 4 points on serve. Needs to hold focus at the start of Set 2.

Yes BS. Needs to keep that level up as if he lets Ferrer back in it could go horribly wrong over three sets.

[The Special Juan]

Thanks That might well be a record Federer breaks.

[CaledonianCraig]

And in comes that dip and Ferrer breaks to lead 2-0 in the second set.

[The Special Juan]

The dip annoys me but his return game is good enough to guarantee a break in 90% of the sets he plays.

[The Special Juan]

Whoa that's mental defence. We're going to a 3rd set. I wish I hadn't started watching now, Murray was doing so well

[Josiah Maiestas]

Compulsory it seems for a 2nd set meltdown this year.. Andy's serve won't worry anybody in the top 200. I'm being kind with that

[The Special Juan]

Ferrer's getting tight....

[The Special Juan]

But he holds & breaks again. The man's been superb today. Murray ain't making Landan now.

[Josiah Maiestas]

It's not a good coach murray lacks, nor ability, it's mentality.

[CaledonianCraig]

That match right there encapsulates Murray's season. One third quality two thirds sub-par. The consistency or lack of it is the real issue here. London looks further away now bit not out of the question. Well played Ferrer.

[banbrotam]

It's a confidence thing. The only good news is that the ability is still there. But he no longer has the mental toughness to drag himself out of holes against his rivals

That could switch in the right direction, anytime though - players don't usually get mentally weaker as they get older (his final W/L ratio, shows he's not been a mental lightweight)

Damn frustrating, but I'm not bothered about him being at O2. I think he'd be on a hiding to nothing as the public who only watch Tennis for three weeks a year, will expect him to win / lots of effort put in for no award etc

Best he has a bit of fun with that hit and giggle new event and I could then see him better and refreshed for Aus

[The Special Juan]

Lopez backs up the Nadal win by taking down Isner. Youzhny, Djokovic, Benneteau all through too.

[Jahu]

Fed cruses to 6:4, 6:2 against Agut.

Andy needs a couple of man slaps.

[laverfan]

Andy needs a couple of man slaps.

He cruised the first set 6-1. Such lapses in concentration are the chasm between "men" and "boys".

I would give due credit to Ferrer (the terrier) on the win.

[TRuffin]

From a quick googling, Agassi was 33 and about 4 months when he last lost the #1 spot, Connors was just short of 31 (and not quite 33 when he was last #2, although he was still in the top 16 at 37).

Only applies for the period since 1973, when the ATP had the computerised ranking system.

When Fed reached #1 in 2012, he became the second oldest #1 since the modern rankings began behind Agassi. He now is the 2nd oldest #2 behind Agassi who was a few months older when he saw #2 briefly coming and going from his last #1 stay. A strong finish by Fed this year, and he could briefly grab #1 next year and break the record for oldest.

[TRuffin]

From a quick googling, Agassi was 33 and about 4 months when he last lost the #1 spot, Connors was just short of 31 (and not quite 33 when he was last #2, although he was still in the top 16 at 37).

Only applies for the period since 1973, when the ATP had the computerised ranking system.

When Fed reached #1 in 2012, he became the second oldest #1 since the modern rankings began behind Agassi.   He now is the 2nd oldest #2  behind Agassi who was a few months older when he saw #2 briefly coming and going from his last #1 stay.   A strong finish by Fed this year, and he could briefly grab #1 next year and break the record for oldest.  

We all know Fed has the most weeks at #1, but also Roger has the most weeks in the top 2 (418 now, 419 on Monday). Roger has also had 530 weeks in the top 3 (2nd behind Connors with 595); 581 weeks in the top 5 (2nd behind Connors with 705); and 636 weeks (626 consecutive) in the top 10. This makes him 4th behind Connors (788), Agassi (747), and Lendl (664). Jimmy only dropped out of the top 10 at 36, and Andre at 35.

Roger should pass Conners in the top 3 category, top 5 category.. If he play the full tour nearly 3 more years, he'll have a shot at the top 10 record as well.

[Jahu]

Creative fans

[hawkeye]

^ I thought we weren't allowed to talk about GOAT type things here? I thought they all had to be up in that sticky so no one got bored, wound up or threatened to leave. Or do those rules only apply when Nadal's great stats are talked about?

If we are allowed this conversation here I will explain some of the reasons why Nadal has less than expected weeks at number one considering his other stats and why this stat alone maybe a little over rated  

[hawkeye]

Ha ha I like the banner. I believe Federer commented on it in his twitter account

I presume I'm allowed to post pictures of Rafa's fans here too without anyone threatening to leave?

[JuliusHMarx]

Oh hawkeye. You're so funny.

[Jahu]

JHM, whats with Sanity clause now? You sane again?

[Jahu]

HE, yes post pictures of Rafa, I like him too.

Just spare me the Djoko ears.

[laverfan]

^ I thought we weren't allowed to talk about GOAT type things here? I thought they all had to be up in that sticky so no one got bored, wound up or threatened to leave. Or do those rules only apply when Nadal's great stats are talked about?

IMBL has been writing about some great stats and some hypothetical ones for a while now, HE, correct?

If we are allowed this conversation here I will explain some of the reasons why Nadal has less than expected weeks at number one considering his other stats and why this stat alone maybe a little over rated  

I suggest leaving this topic on the Shanghai tourney, and asking TRuffin and you, both, to re-post some of the stats on that thread.

[TRuffin]

^ I thought we weren't allowed to talk about GOAT type things here? I thought they all had to be up in that sticky so no one got bored, wound up or threatened to leave. Or do those rules only apply when Nadal's great stats are talked about?

IMBL has been writing about some great stats and some hypothetical ones for a while now, HE, correct?

If we are allowed this conversation here I will explain some of the reasons why Nadal has less than expected weeks at number one considering his other stats and why this stat alone maybe a little over rated  

I suggest leaving this topic on the Shanghai tourney, and asking TRuffin and you, both, to re-post some of the stats on that thread.

Sorry to have stirred up something.. completely innocent on my part, I promise.  Someone posted above early asking who was the oldest #2 in history.  I answered as did another poster. Later I saw in an ATP article those stats and thought it went along with the answer..  didn't even thing about it in context of goat debate..

At the same time- any time a player whether it be Federer or Nadal or Djokovic reach some record or milestone during a tournament- do we really need to put it in the Goat sticky?  It's hard for me to believe everyone is THAT sensitive that we can't mention someone achieving something at a tournament. smh.

[It Must Be Love]

Truffin's right here, honestly it's ok to talk about records or milestones. Very impressive stuff from Federer

[Jahu]

Truffin, keep it up buddy, ignore users that have names based on Tennis equipment

[hawkeye]

Truffin's right here, honestly it's ok to talk about records or milestones. Very impressive stuff from Federer

I don't think it is. laverfan said to continue this discussion in the GOAT thread

[It Must Be Love]

Truffin's right here, honestly it's ok to talk about records or milestones. Very impressive stuff from Federer

I don't think it is. laverfan said to continue this discussion in the GOAT thread

Ok, mods have more authority than me

[JuliusHMarx]

Truffin's right here, honestly it's ok to talk about records or milestones.

I agree on that IMBL. It's just a few stats about the oldest players. I think it's fine to post that, as it wasn't even intended as a debating point, just to answer a question.
If anyone else were to decide to turn it into a GOAT debate, then I'm sure they would be sensible enough to do it on the GOAT sticky. That's just common sense and courtesy.

[hawkeye]

I agree on that IMBL. It's just a few stats about the oldest players. I think it's fine to post that, as it wasn't even intended as a debating point, just to answer a question.

This is what I was referring to

We all know Fed has the most weeks at #1, but also Roger has the most weeks in the top 2 (418 now, 419 on Monday). Roger has also had 530 weeks in the top 3 (2nd behind Connors with 595); 581 weeks in the top 5 (2nd behind Connors with 705); and 636 weeks (626 consecutive) in the top 10. This makes him 4th behind Connors (788), Agassi (747), and Lendl (664). Jimmy only dropped out of the top 10 at 36, and Andre at 35.

Roger should pass Conners in the top 3 category, top 5 category.. If he play the full tour nearly 3 more years, he'll have a shot at the top 10 record as well.

Julius are you trying to say this isn't classic GOAT talk?  

I certainly have no problem with these stats being put here but your having a laugh if you are trying to say it's not GOAT talk. I hope the GOAT thread isn't there to stop people from talking about Nadal's GOAT statistics whilst still allowing Federer's to be talked about?

[JuliusHMarx]

I agree on that IMBL. It's just a few stats about the oldest players. I think it's fine to post that, as it wasn't even intended as a debating point, just to answer a question.

This is what I was referring to

We all know Fed has the most weeks at #1, but also Roger has the most weeks in the top 2 (418 now, 419 on Monday). Roger has also had 530 weeks in the top 3 (2nd behind Connors with 595); 581 weeks in the top 5 (2nd behind Connors with 705); and 636 weeks (626 consecutive) in the top 10. This makes him 4th behind Connors (788), Agassi (747), and Lendl (664). Jimmy only dropped out of the top 10 at 36, and Andre at 35.

Roger should pass Conners in the top 3 category, top 5 category.. If he play the full tour nearly 3 more years, he'll have a shot at the top 10 record as well.

Julius are you trying to say this isn't classic GOAT talk?  

I certainly have no problem with these stats being put here but your having a laugh if you are trying to say it's not GOAT talk. I hope the GOAT thread isn't there to stop people from talking about Nadal's GOAT statistics whilst still allowing Federer's to be talked about?

I think you're the one having a laugh hawkeye. Like I say, I'm sure common sense and courtesy will prevail.

[Silver]

I presume I'm allowed to post pictures of Rafa's fans here too without anyone threatening to leave?

Not just threatening - I did leave, because of you. Popped back today to see how things were going, but judging by this thread I shouldn't have bothered.

Well, I'll be off again then. Hope everyone's enjoying the tennis and the rankings race, maybe see you in 2015. Best of luck Julius, LF.

[invisiblecoolers]

HE confirm me one thing , are you temporary21 ? coz the way you are commenting on every thread is very similar to his/her style. I guess I nailed you here.

If you saw some banners of Rafa during Shanghai tournament you should have posted it, nobody would have objected that, why not let Rafa recover from his injury and let other fans have their moment.

[invisiblecoolers]

I presume I'm allowed to post pictures of Rafa's fans here too without anyone threatening to leave?

Not just threatening - I did leave, because of you. Popped back today to see how things were going, but judging by this thread I shouldn't have bothered.

Well, I'll be off again then. Hope everyone's enjoying the tennis and the rankings race, maybe see you in 2015. Best of luck Julius, LF.

@ Silver

Take it easy bro, not just you many are annoyed, I took my time off as well and come back to see same thing sprouted everywhere, Shanghai thread however had a slight twist of fortune, if you wanna take time off do it bro but don't leave the forum for somebody just coz they are wumming.

[laverfan]

My intention was to suggest using the sticky, in case it turned this into YAGT. It was not intended to stop a specific comment or two.

@TRuffin... I am very impressed with the Old Man and his stats. I refrained from suggesting them here, though. I am also impressed with Lopez and the way he is playing. It would be great to see him in a MS final. (He has the Rome Doubles final with Haase, though).

@Silver/iC... come and hang out. You have Poster's choice to comment or not.

@HE/IMBL... The sticky is there to be availed in case you are tempted.

[kingraf]

Ferrer Djokovic isi an absolute war! Long live 500 shot rallies

[kingraf]

David Ferrer has some serious calf development.

[temporary21]

Swing and a miss, im not HE. The GOAT sticky is for just that, stuff about Roger or Rafa is fine, but if its a comparison, its probably better in the sticky. In any case tomorrows semis should be good, we have two people who arent here often, and a blockbuster. Credit to Ferrer too, he never gives up, despite must feeling like he wants to sometimes

[TRuffin]

Fantastic tennis by Fed. Djoko looks great as well. Should be a blockbuster- slight edge to Djoko.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Is Djokovic in China similar to Nadal in RG?

Hopefully Rog can make 1 set close before Novak starts running things.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Like the way Simon is getting better, the only man who got close to beating Cilic in NYC, Feli will not enjoy the semi if he returns serve like he has been

[dummy_half]

Certainly a tournament that has taken a few twists and turns - top half being Djoko v Federer is hardly a surprise, while the bottom half semi-final is Simon v Lopez. Wonder what odds you could have got on that last week...

Not a bad day for Murray's attempts to qualify for the WTF - Ferrer (unsurprisingly) and Berdych (more surprisingly) not maximising the possibility of pulling far ahead in the race. Looks increasingly like 2 from 4 or Raonic, Berdych, Ferrer and Murray for spots 7 and 8. Still looks like one good tournament would swing it in favour of any one of them.

[HM Murdock]

Djokovic v Federer tomorrow could be great.

I'm trying to remember the last time they both looked in such good form coming into a match. Both players really seem to firing on all cylinders.

Tough to call. Djokovic slight favourite but if it goes to tie breaks, I give Federer the edge.

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