Ulster vs Glasgow

by **George Carlin** Mon 06 Oct 2014, 8:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster vs Glasgow - Page 4 Ulster11

Ulster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors
Saturday 11 October 2014
KO 17:05
Kingspan Stadium

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Nigel Owens Ulster vs Glasgow - Page 4 Yesss13

(WRU, 114th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Nigel Correll, Paul Haycock (IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Murray White (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

A. Teams:

Ulster Rugby
Ulster vs Glasgow - Page 4 Paula-10

15 Louis Ludik
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Jared Payne
12 Stuart McCloskey
11 Tommy Bowe
10 Ian Humphreys
9 Paul Marshall

1 Andrew Warwick
2 Rory Best (Captain)
3 Wiehahn Herbst
4 Alan O’Connor
5 Franco van der Merwe
6 Robbie Diack
7 Chris Henry
8 Nick Williams

16 Rob Herring
17 Callum Black
18 Bronson Ross
19 Lewis Stevenson
20 Roger Wilson
21 Michael Heaney
22 Stuart Olding
23 Craig Gilroy

Glasgow Warriors
Ulster vs Glasgow - Page 4 Kelly-10

15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Peter Horne
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
9. Henry Pyrgos

1. Gordon Reid
2. Fraser Brown
3. Euan Murray
4. Tim Swinson
5. Leone Nakarawa
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss (Captain)

16. Dougie Hall
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Zander Fagerson
19. Jonny Gray
20. Adam Ashe
21. Niko Matawalu
22. James Downey
23. Sean Lamont

B. Form - head to head:

29 Played 29
15 Wins 13
13 Losses 15
1 Draws 1
49 Tries 47
31 Conversions 33
78 Penalties 68
2 Drop Goals 7
547 Points 526
26 Avg. Age 26

C. Form - last season:

Friday 13 September 2013
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
Ravenhill Stadium

Friday 18 April 2014
Glasgow Warriors 27 - 9 Ulster Rugby
Scotstoun Stadium

by **BigGee** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 6:48 pm

Good try Ulster but we should have had him

by jimbopip Sat 11 Oct 2014, 6:51 pm

Euan Murray will be having nightmares about that for a long time.

by **BigGee** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 6:52 pm

Well that's it, that's what happens when you are chasing a game. Poor pass by Murray though.

by VinceWLB Sat 11 Oct 2014, 6:53 pm

jimbopip wrote:Euan Murray will be having nightmares about that for a long time.

To be fair to him he had to play the full 80 min because of no appropriate TH subs and did a reasonably good job at that.

by **BigGee** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 7:03 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Euan Murray will be having nightmares about that for a long time.

To be fair to him he had to play the full 80 min because of no appropriate TH subs and did a reasonably good job at that.

Murray has played ok actually, after that blip in the first half they have solidified it in the second. They were chasing the game, these things happen.

Sounds like MB is ok a well. Sounds like a concussion and they were taking the right precautions

by VinceWLB Sat 11 Oct 2014, 7:06 pm

Well done Ulster.

After that i can't wait for the return fixture and with a full Glasgow's team out.

by **BigGee** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 7:09 pm

Anyway, well done Ulster. Never a disgrace to lose to them in Belfast, they looked back to their old selves today and are going to be a force in the Pro 12.

Nothing to radically wrong for Glasgow, we were just beaten by a better side on the day. They probably lost the first half physically and were always behind on the scoreboard, to many mistakes as well. Its a long season and we were never going to win them all, hopefully this will be a wake up for them.

by MrsP Sat 11 Oct 2014, 7:46 pm

Only saw the 2nd half.

Looked better.

I hope Bennett's injury is not as bad as it looked.

Crying or Very sad

by neilthom7 Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:00 pm

Firstly I have to say I really enjoyed that game, was a really great game from where I was. Crowd was bouncing tonight too. Thought we did very well and the game plan seemed perfect for the night. On the Ludik note from where I was I saw one of our players and a Glasgow player both hit him in the air, I think what got to a lot of our fans was that the Glasgow player never jumped and so essentially they saw it as the same as Paynes last year although I have no idea I will have to watch on tv to know. I will say though it looked like he came right down on his head so I'd say he is pretty lucky he didn't get hurt. Gilroys try looked great not sure how it came through on cameras but from pitchside it was awesome to watch. Great credit to the Glasgow fans there saw a few of them and they were well up for the game and having good craic all night. Lots of our players looked out on their feet at the end good job we have 2 easy games coming up to rest a bit lol

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:02 pm

Quite happy with the Ulster performance. Still not impressed with our back line- would give us 7/10. A lot of untapped potential in this Ulster side but this was still the best performance of the season for us. Really, really entertaining match too.

Thought we comprehensively dominated the physical exchanges, and our forwards totally outplayed the Glasgow pack both as a collective and man for man. We had the edge throughout the game that was pleasing but we don't have the fluency to make all that territorial dominance count- a side firing on all cylinders could have won more comfortably. Until the Gilroy try the game was still up in the air for all our control and the Tommy Bowe try off a mistake put a gloss on the scoreline. Delighted to see Gilroy and Bowe get tries, as they've both looked short on confidence and that will be a timely boost for them. McCloskey looked good but our back line still looks a bit incoherent. Unsettled, I think, too much rotation. We're still playing below our potential as a team but we're improving.

Nigel Owens had a very good game and made the right decision regarding the collision that up-ended Ludik; Glasgow were lucky to have the one ref for whom common sense prevails in these situations, if you had a lot of referees it would have been a red card and that would not have been the right call. So I don't anticipate any complaints about the ref from the Glasgow fans this week, though you never know. Certainly no complaints from Ulster fans- well done Nige!

This result is very handy, but we need to be going and beating these kinds of teams away from home as well as at Ravenhill and we still need to be improving to get to that level. Leicester next week will be a good litmus test. We need a similar scoreline at Welford Road before I crack a smile! Wink

Enjoyed the game, brilliant atmosphere and the Glasgow fans that made the trip were really good craic.

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:08 pm

The most important thing of all is that Bennett recovers though.

by InBODWeTrust Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:12 pm

Darren Cave makes a fine waterboy!! Joking aside and without knowing the in’s and out’s of squad dynamics I think he’s being treated awfully this season so fair play it him for being pitchside.

Not perfect tonight but much better than previous weeks. Pack fronted up well, McCloskey will be hard to drop based on the last 3 games and was pleased to see Gilroy looking sharp and hungry when he came on. Any news on Trimble?

by neilthom7 Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:15 pm

InBODWeTrust wrote:Darren Cave makes a fine waterboy!! Joking aside and without knowing the in’s and out’s of squad dynamics I think he’s being treated awfully this season so fair play it him for being pitchside.

Not perfect tonight but much better than previous weeks. Pack fronted up well, McCloskey will be hard to drop based on the last 3 games and was pleased to see Gilroy looking sharp and hungry when he came on. Any news on Trimble?

I thought Cave was injured and that's why he wasn't in the squad? Maybe it is just the folks in Dublin asking for Payne at 13

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:25 pm

Any thoughts on Payne's performance tonight? I thought he was certainly solid, but the magic from last season is definitely missing.

I also think we have such great options at centre that there is no reason for him to be there.

by neilthom7 Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:35 pm

I'd say solid describes it pretty well Rory, McCloskey has really caught the eye but one thing we need to do is settle on a centre partnership soon because if you change every week it is going to leave us unsettled. All I can say is I am glad I'm not the one that has to chosoe that partnership because that's one tough call

by Artful_Dodger Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:38 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I'd say solid describes it pretty well Rory, McCloskey has really caught the eye but one thing we need to do is settle on a centre partnership soon because if you change every week it is going to leave us unsettled. All I can say is I am glad I'm not the one that has to chosoe that partnership because that's one tough call

On this note - who picks the team for next week, Kiss or Doak? Ferris on Sky commentary said its not clear.

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:40 pm

He settled into the game Rory, and played better than he has, but he's still trying a bit too hard to impress and I felt he was forcing the game at the start. Less so as the match goes on.

For me its a no-brainer. He showed some flashes of class when he had time and space on the ball, but at 13 in the Northern Hemisphere you are not going to get time and space on the ball. At 15 you will get some time and space to counter-attack and Super Rugby you will get that time and space at 13. But up here in the Pro12 and European Cup you do not get much time and space at 13 and even less so at international level which is what he's being measured up for.

A really good partner at 12 will be able to bring more out of him, if he is able to develop a partnership with someone, and he will improve with more time in that position. But where Cave is better than him is that Cave has an understanding of what lines to run to give himself the chance to get the offload away whereas right now Payne is running into contact and dying with the ball, or forcing the offload before the tackle which often leads to a loose ball or a turnover. Cave's running lines give him an opportunity to make the offload in a position where it is telling whereas Payne simply doesn't have that in his armoury right now. Thats why I want Cave back in the team.

It reminds me of Paddy Wallace. The closer you are to the scrum the less time you have on the ball. Because of Wallaces skill set he was shoehorned at 10, but it was having the additional time at 12 that allowed him to bring the best out of himself and those around him. For Payne, we all know how magical his skill set can be, but he's too close to the scrum at 13 and a move to 15 may get the best out of him. I do believe Payne can improve into a very good option for us at 13. But when he steps up to test level he will have even less time and space and its hard to imagine him being able to show that magic. So if the selection policy is dictated by the needs of the national side, I'm concerned.

We should be looking at Gordon D'Arcy as 13, given the lack of 13s looking ready and the surplus of 12s.

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 8:43 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:I'd say solid describes it pretty well Rory, McCloskey has really caught the eye but one thing we need to do is settle on a centre partnership soon because if you change every week it is going to leave us unsettled. All I can say is I am glad I'm not the one that has to chosoe that partnership because that's one tough call

On this note - who picks the team for next week, Kiss or Doak? Ferris on =Sky commentary said its not clear.

This is Kiss' last week in the job so I reckon Doak, but I would not be surprised if Kiss has a side role at Ravenhill surreptitiously between now and his official departure from Ireland. Similar to how Brendan Venter did for Saracens after leaving for South Africa. Whats not clear is who picked the team this week. Wouldn't be surprised if it's been Doak the whole time.

One thing is for sure; if an Ulster player gets ahead of a Munster player in a 50/50 selection call for Ireland between now and the RWC the Les Kiss conspiracy theories will begin devil

by Standulstermen Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:07 pm

I thought Payne did relatively well and I can't say hand on heart that Cave would have improved things. Same team has to be picked for next week.

Pack did a great job. No complaints about the controversial decisions etc

by MrsP Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:09 pm

Bennett is reportedly up and about!

Great news!

by Artful_Dodger Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:18 pm

MrsP wrote:Bennett is reportedly up and about!

Great news!

Good to hear - when he went down and Nigel Owens went to him you could hear that sort of choking and very heavy laboured breathing through the nose which is often a very, very bad sign. I was genuinely worried at one point.

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:18 pm

It would be unfair not to mention that Jared Payne was very good defensively, as was McCloskey- good aggressive defence throughout put Glasgow on the back foot.

Good news about Bennett, Glasgow tweeted this; "Mark Bennett was stretchered off as a precaution but he's up and about & we'd like to thank @UlsterRugby medics & paramedics for their help"

by InBODWeTrust Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:31 pm

Good to see Ruan strolling about the burger stands earlier on. Any updates on his situation?

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:42 pm

Latest is in this interview

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1904/Ruan-Pienaar-Back-in-Belfast.aspx

by funnyExiledScot Sat 11 Oct 2014, 10:15 pm

Can't win them all Glasgow, and sounds like you were well beaten. Just hope Bennett isn't out for long. My pick for the Scotland 13 jersey in the AIs.

by SecretFly Sat 11 Oct 2014, 10:47 pm

Notch wrote:One thing is for sure; if an Ulster player gets ahead of a Munster player in a 50/50 selection call for Ireland between now and the RWC the Les Kiss conspiracy theories will begin

The Munster theory would already be pretty established on the 50/50 selection issue, Notch Wink

I'm not so certain they need Kiss to be at Ulster or to have coached Ulster for those suspicions to be alive and kicking.

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 11:00 pm

Jeez, I just popped over to the other Glasgow Warriors forum they make our place look even-handed when it comes to referees Shocked

Mind you, the Ulster one is as bad or worse. For some reason single-team forums really attract the, ahem, "die-hards"

by Standulstermen Sat 11 Oct 2014, 11:09 pm

Have to say some of the bile directed at Jared Payne on the uafc is embarrassing at best and disgraceful at worst

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 11:12 pm

They are a bunch of crazies. Waste of time.

by Artful_Dodger Sat 11 Oct 2014, 11:35 pm

I always enjoy a gander at Scarlets Fever when the Scarlets lose - wrong as that maybe Very Happy

by **Notch** Sat 11 Oct 2014, 11:36 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:I always enjoy a gander at Scarlets Fever when the Scarlets lose - wrong as that maybe

Must admit I do the same! Especially after an Ulster win. Same with Munsterfans Whistle

by marty2086 Sat 11 Oct 2014, 11:55 pm

Notch wrote:
Nigel Owens had a very good game and made the right decision regarding the collision that up-ended Ludik; Glasgow were lucky to have the one ref for whom common sense prevails in these situations, if you had a lot of referees it would have been a red card and that would not have been the right call. So I don't anticipate any complaints about the ref from the Glasgow fans this week, though you never know. Certainly no complaints from Ulster fans- well done Nige!

Seems a few refs are ignoring the new directives now, was a similar incident last night in the Tigers Quins game with the same result and Sale Wasps last weekend the ref just gave a penalty

by InjuredYetAgain Sun 12 Oct 2014, 7:38 am

My summary? A good game between two pretty evenly matched sides. Ulster had the upper hand in the early scrums but Glasgow reversed that latterly.
Despite having less star names than recent years, this is a very good Ulster team. Glasgow have to take this on the chin and move on.
No issues about the ref. Got the yellow card right, got the Lamont high ball incident right but he was perhaps a bit lenient on Williams? 2 possibly 3 "mistimed" tackles could have led to a yellow.
We have seen 2 of the 4 play off teams here.

by **George Carlin** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 7:40 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Can't win them all Glasgow, and sounds like you were well beaten. Just hope Bennett isn't out for long. My pick for the Scotland 13 jersey in the AIs.

Yes indeed. Well done to Notch, Pete and their merry men.

Babies decided to take the opportunity to bawl the place down so I didn't see that last half hour, but it sounds like we got what we deserved. It was always going to be a calculated risk by Toonie to rest/omit players before Bath and I would think that he half expected to get nothing out of the game. It was certainly the right time in the season, against the right opponents and in the right venue to sacrifice the points. Raises a very interesting issue of how much Toonie is focussing on Europe this year.

The other obvious point is that unless we get our scrum sorted out, it's going to get snapped in half by David Wilson and Paul James.

by **George Carlin** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 7:50 am

The Messiah's press office tweeted the following this morning:

Mark of Nazareth wrote: Up and about and feeling fine. Thanks a lot for all the messages. Much appreciated

by TJ Sun 12 Oct 2014, 8:09 am

Good game for the neutral? Two teams attacking and laying good rugby. One sequence early that Glasgow did several offloads and flip passes in particular stood out but Ulsters defense was up to Glasgows trickery. Glasgow missed more tackles than they have for a long time and perhaps a rotation too many in the forwards - this was not the strongest team glasgow could put out. Shame one side had to lose but Gilroys run for his try was a thing of beauty and in the end that piece of individual brilliance changed the game. Well done ulster - you look like top 4 material. Shame for Glasgow but lets he they can regroup for next week, put out a strong side and get back to winning ways

by **Notch** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 9:40 am

I thought it was a very good game for the neutral TJ, very good indeed. And the atmosphere inside the ground was very good; I'm sure that came across on the TV. Good advertisement for the league on Sky Sports.

Big relief when Gilroy scored. If you remember last year, we dominated Glasgow even more completely and comprehensively and we didn't get across the line for the killer score- they won the game against the run of play. So it was a massive, massive relief when Gilroy went over... and then Tommy a few minutes later. Also, a 4-0 points spread is much better than a 4-1... that denying them the LBP was important.

by cakeordeath Sun 12 Oct 2014, 9:42 am

Notch wrote:Jeez, I just popped over to the other Glasgow Warriors forum they make our place look even-handed when it comes to referees

Mind you, the Ulster one is as bad or worse. For some reason single-team forums really attract the, ahem, "die-hards"

I missed the game last night (thankfully). I just had a quick look at the warriors forum, because of your comment. While there is some a lot of criticism of Owen most of it seems to be around Nick Williams. There are also a few comments about Bennett's injury being a result of foul play. Was this the case?

by **Notch** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 9:48 am

cakeordeath wrote:
Notch wrote:Jeez, I just popped over to the other Glasgow Warriors forum they make our place look even-handed when it comes to referees

Mind you, the Ulster one is as bad or worse. For some reason single-team forums really attract the, ahem, "die-hards"

I missed the game last night (thankfully). I just had a quick look at the warriors forum, because of your comment. While there is some a lot of criticism of Owen most of it seems to be around Nick Williams. There are also a few comments about Bennett's injury being a result of foul play. Was this the case?

No the injury to Bennett was absolutely not due to foul play. In fact, that someone could say that is quite upsetting as the first person to call for help/play to be stopped was actually Rory Best. Bennett got his head in the wrong place- I think its absolutely fair to say that everyone from Ulster Rugby wishes him well.

Nick Williams was quite indisciplined but several of the things they complained about were legitimate hits albeit marginally late, mountains being made out of mole hills there. He was lucky to escape a yellow card for an incident in the second half where he up-ended, I think, Tommy Seymour which was stupid and unnecessary.

by **Notch** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 9:55 am

His BODliness agrees with me regarding Nigel Owens and common sense:

by VinceWLB Sun 12 Oct 2014, 10:44 am

If Garces the farce had been reffing this Glasgow would have been 14 for most of the game.

I would strongly advice pro 12 teams to adapt to french referees in the coming fortnight, they are giving cards for barely pen offense.

by VinceWLB Sun 12 Oct 2014, 11:08 am

Glasgow forum isn't half that bad! someone mentioned Glasgow should have tried to sign Rennie, this is a great point imo.

No disrepect to Fusaro but in games like this his lack of physicality is badly showed up, and Glasgow were almost playing with 7 forwards which is something you can't afford when 3 of your best props are injured. Would be seriously tempted to move Harley to the openside.

For all the great stuff he is doing Nakarawa doesn't really help in the tight either and i would seriously consider playing him in the backrow.

My Ideal front 5: Grant/Reid-Hall/Bryce-Murray/Welsh/Cusack
Ryder/Swinson-Gray jr

with the possibility of moving Welsh back to loosehead depending on how well Cusack returns to fitness/form.

Back row of Nakarawa/Eddie-Strauss/Wilson-Harley/Holmes

by **RDW** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 11:14 am

VinceWLB wrote:

Would be seriously tempted to move Harley to the openside.

Agree with you on fusaro though!

by VinceWLB Sun 12 Oct 2014, 11:18 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:

Would be seriously tempted to move Harley to the openside.

Agree with you on fusaro though!

Glasgow have no other option than Holmes then! they really needs to beef their backrow up a bit, Strauss can't do all the ball carrying by himself.

by **George Carlin** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 11:21 am

I hope Vern Cotter was watching. Big fans of both though I am, watching Horne and Fusaro try and carry in the first and second phases was like watching a fly cannon headfirst into a car windscreen.

by **BigGee** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 12:04 pm

Open side is probably Glasgow's most problematic position. Fusaro and Holmes are steady pros but neither look likely to step up to the next level. It is hard to see that either of them will add to their total of caps. I think over the rest of the back row we are fine, now that Wilson is almost back there and with the coming of age of Ashe we are not going to be short at N0.8 or blind side. I would say a top class open side should be towards the top of our shopping list for next season.

It was really noticeable how much Johnny Gray coming onto the pitch solidified our scrum and the pack in general. He is definitely the pick of our second rows and the others are not bad either. He can do the hard graft and the fancy stuff and is becoming a truly world class player. He should be the first name on the team sheet these days.

by **George Carlin** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 12:34 pm

When I was talked pre-season about snapping up Sam Warbuton on loan whilst the WRU chaos was going on, I was absolutely not kidding. Can you imagine how good Glasgow would be with the likes of Francois Louw in the 7 shirt? Dreamland.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 12 Oct 2014, 1:41 pm

It's early days, but Hamish Watson is looking quite a prospect for the 7 jersey. He did the physical stuff really well and his link play is really quite exceptional.

Still, my hunch is that Blair Cowan and Kelly Brown will take the flanks in the AIs, with Beattie at 8 and Harley on the bench.

by **BigGee** Sun 12 Oct 2014, 2:33 pm

Cowan is looking like the front runner for openside I would say, been the stand out for LI so far this season. Scored 2 tries on Saturday. I watched the Scarlets on Friday night and did not see a lot from Barclay. In fact Jonathon Davies was brought on as a sub for him and looked much more the part.

Watson is showing up really well but just needs to cement his place in the team this season. If he keeps up his progress then his turn may come after this world cup.

The one unknown quantity of course is Rennie, who is fit and playing well for Bristol. Will he be considered from the championship?

by Pete330v2 Mon 13 Oct 2014, 9:07 am

The dust has settled and the hangover is gone.
That was a bit more like it from Ulster, a bit more like what we're capable of even if the scoreline was slightly flattering IMO. It's a step towards getting the best out of who's available to us. Not taking the points when you're six points up and plenty of time left to play shows the decision making can sometimes be left wanting mind you but it's a result I'm simply over the moon about.
Glasgow are going to be a force on the domestic and european fronts this season so you guys have so much to be positive about plus you'll most likely get revenge when we come visiting.

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