My Wales 23 for AIs (SQUAD ANNOUNCED)

First topic message reminder :

I'm picking my current Wales 23 based on form, though I accept it is maybe too soon because we still have the European rugby cup to be played.

15. Liam Williams
14. Hallam Amos
13. Cory Allen
12. Scott Williams
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar

9. Rhys Webb

8. Dan Baker
7. Sam Warburton
6. Taulupe Faletau
5. AWJ (c)
4. Ball
3. Lee
2. Hibbard
1. Jenkins

Reps: Baldwin, James, A.Jones, Charteris/Davies/Evans, Navidi/Tipuric, G.Davies, Patchell, J.Davies.

Not sure who is injured atm, so have included a few options. The rest of the squad though will be the usual. I also think Cuthbert will be picked on the other wing, but he is in some bad form right now, hence being left out of my squad.

Feel free to add and pick apart. We've a few weeks yet.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Forwards:
Gethin Jenkins, Paul James, Nicky Smith, Aaron Jarvis, Rhodri Jones, Samson Lee, Scott Baldwin, Richard Hibbard, Emyr Phillips, Jake Ball, AWJ, Luke Charteris, Bradley Davies, James King, Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Sam Warburton (c), Dan Baker, Taulupe Faletau.

Backs:
Mike Phillips, Rhys Webb, Rhodri Williams, Dan Biggar, Rhys Priestland, Cory Allen, JD2, JAmie Roberts, Scott Williams, Hallam Amos, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Tom Prydie, Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams.

No Adam Jones, Rhys Patchell, James Hook. Nicky Thomas is the only new face.

bedfordwelsh wrote:HG,

You missed Priestland out

If he did go with that side then I still think the Likes of halfpenny, Lydiate and Roberts could up their game but Jenkins no and if Webb isn't picked then I will lose all faith in Gatland despite having defended him in the past.

That said what ever team takes the field they will as ever have my full support

That is the important bit. To be 'honest' I have little faith in Gats, his 'honesty' around selection and his 'honest' opinion about who is playing regularly and on form, just drives me spare. We all know that the main team is likely to be

Jenkins, HIBBARD, Rh Jones, Alun-Wyn, CHARTERIS, LYDIATE, Warburton, Faletau:

PHILLIPS, Priestland, Cuthbert, ROBERTS, DAVIES, NORTH, HALFPENNY

Even though the players in caps are playing outside of the country, if they are even getting game time at all.

However, I will be wanting us to win, and prove me wrong.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:HG,

You missed Priestland out

If he did go with that side then I still think the Likes of halfpenny, Lydiate and Roberts could up their game but Jenkins no and if Webb isn't picked then I will lose all faith in Gatland despite having defended him in the past.

That said what ever team takes the field they will as ever have my full support

That is the important bit.  To be 'honest' I have little faith in Gats, his 'honesty' around selection and his 'honest' opinion about who is playing regularly and on form, just drives me spare.  We all know that the main team is likely to be

Jenkins, HIBBARD, Rh Jones, Alun-Wyn, CHARTERIS, LYDIATE, Warburton, Faletau:

PHILLIPS, Priestland, Cuthbert, ROBERTS, DAVIES, NORTH, HALFPENNY

Even though the players in caps are playing outside of the country, if they are even getting game time at all.

However, I will be wanting us to win, and prove me wrong.

SS,

That is why I have for sometime been saying the team against the AB shouldn't contain any exiles (North aside) as we will be without them for the Boks game.

Let say that team got the nod for the Blacks game and lets say we pushed them all the way then we are looking at potentially 8 changes the week after, that is just way to many changes going into the game against the Boks.

We have come unstuck against the lesser teams when he's made a raft of changes, you have to have continuity and I feel it also sends out a strong message to anyone thinking of going outside Wales.

Priestland has to put up NOW. For the last three years he has shown us what he can't do at international level, now he has to show us he can handle it.
He doesn't have to prove anything to Gatland, it's now abundantly clear that he is the first name down on any squad sheet, and will be until Gatland is no longer in charge. But I think he owes it to the fans, and himself to pull his socks up and be the player that Gatland obviously thinks he is.

Again what I will say is no matter what side they pick I just hope they have the guts to sub a player, no matter who it is or how early it is, if they aren't do the job.

We have seen the likes of Jenkins, Phillips and Priestland kept on way to long after it has been obvious they are not on form or having a bad game.

Bedford -: to be fair the team should only include players that are fit, and playing regular rugby. Except for being regular Team Wales squad members what have the likes of Lydiate, Charteris, Roberts and Halfpenny done to warrant selection over the likes of Peers, Turnbull, Bishop, Dan Evans, who have been playing regular rugby this season? Lets ignore the imaginary 'Gatland's Law' which is never going to be used, and look at fitness, game time, form etc, and we should still be selecting other people than these non-regional lay abouts.

SS,

Gatlands Law never existed it was hyped up by the media.

I agree on all 4 you mentioned but for me I wouldn't have Peers or Bishop in the squad either but like said we won't have any of them for the Boks game so lets do without them for the Blacks to and try and give the likely team against the Boks a bit of time together.

Ok i get Amos being in the squad but why is Prydie in the team over Eli Walker. Every time i have seen him so far he has been mediocre. All the stand out performance have been from Amos.
Don't know whether it's just me either but i really don't see what other people see in James King. No where near physical enough for international rugby.

For the first time in years i am worried about our scrum, Samson Lee looked unfit and didn't hold his own against Toulon Saturday. Rhodri Jones then cam eon and got destroyed. I'm not convinced with Jarvis being in the team either but at the moment i'm wondering whether he is our best option. Jarvis like many other props haven't adapted to the new scrummaging laws and isn't as good as he was 2 seasons ago in the scrum. Saying that he done a descent job at the start of the season before Arhip took over.
I really think the regions are missing out on two strong tight heads in Craig Mitchell and Nicky Thomas. Nicky Thomas needs to be getting regular game time like Nicky Smith has and like Samson Lee did as he is a really talented scrummager. God knows where Mitchell is with the blues; Is he injured?

There is not problem at looshead with Gethin then the experience of Paul James but I would like to see Nicky Smith on the bench.

I think Owen Williams would have been a better option at center instead of Cory Allen as well as he hasn't been in great form.

Jh,

Even as a Dragons fan was surprised to see Prydie in there but Walker not convinced me still so may Evans ahead of Prtdie would have been more like for like.

Agree with you on King, I would have had Cudd or Turnbull ahead of him.

Mitchell has never reached his early potential and Jenkins not up to scratch at mo and James unavailable for the Boks so Smith could get some good game time.

Am a Cory Allen fan so happy with him and O Williams not been doing that well at 12 for Tigers by all accounts.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford -: to be fair the team should only include players that are fit, and playing regular rugby.  Except for being regular Team Wales squad members what have the likes of Lydiate, Charteris, Roberts and Halfpenny done to warrant selection over the likes of  Peers, Turnbull, Bishop, Dan Evans, who have been playing regular rugby this season?  Lets ignore the imaginary 'Gatland's Law' which is never going to be used, and look at fitness, game time, form etc, and we should still be selecting other people than these non-regional lay abouts.

I thought Chatteris and halfpenny looked in good form this weekend

Prydie will be useful bench cover against the Boks, he has played on the wing, fullback and in the centre.

maestegmafia wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford -: to be fair the team should only include players that are fit, and playing regular rugby.  Except for being regular Team Wales squad members what have the likes of Lydiate, Charteris, Roberts and Halfpenny done to warrant selection over the likes of  Peers, Turnbull, Bishop, Dan Evans, who have been playing regular rugby this season?  Lets ignore the imaginary 'Gatland's Law' which is never going to be used, and look at fitness, game time, form etc, and we should still be selecting other people than these non-regional lay abouts.

I thought Chatteris and halfpenny looked in good form this weekend

Not saying they didn't Maes but how much game time have they had and in fairness to lets say Ball and Li Williams both have looked good all season so far

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford -: to be fair the team should only include players that are fit, and playing regular rugby.  Except for being regular Team Wales squad members what have the likes of Lydiate, Charteris, Roberts and Halfpenny done to warrant selection over the likes of  Peers, Turnbull, Bishop, Dan Evans, who have been playing regular rugby this season?  Lets ignore the imaginary 'Gatland's Law' which is never going to be used, and look at fitness, game time, form etc, and we should still be selecting other people than these non-regional lay abouts.

I thought Chatteris and halfpenny looked in good form this weekend

Not saying they didn't Maes but how much game time have they had and in fairness to lets say Ball and Li Williams both have looked good all season so far

It's a constant debate though whether proven performers are as worthy of selection as form players. I think this squad has a decent balance of both.

Bradley Davies and Tom Prydie are bigger surprises to me than Charteris and Halfpenny.

Davies not so much for me as he's been playing well for Wasps by all accounts. I think we all knew the likes of Halfpenny, Roberts, JD and Lydiate would be named and that in itself I haven't got a problem with but Li Williams has proven himself and is on form so for me he should start.

As I mentioned earlier what I do want to see is that if whoever he selects is not performing then get them off and use the bench properly and not at wheat seems to be the case these days are pre determined times.

Why do people on here think Lydiate has not had enough game time (may be he has,nt) but say very little about Tips one game and seventeen minutes Charts one game and thirty minutes Halfpenny two games and thats from last season Lyds has played a couple of full games and four or five off the bench as well as the S.A.tour Does he need more game time i,m sure he does but if he does what does the former three need and Phillips has very little and less than Lyds.

irnbrew,

Fair one and I am one of Dans biggest fans but I just don't think the whole move has worked for him, that said if he plays he won't let us down.

None of the French exiles have had much game time really so I guess all of them are a bit of a gamble, to complicate things with Lydiate they also play a left right system which he admitted himself took him sometime to get use to.

With all the fuss coming out of France ref players playing for their National side and what with the new dual contracts getting sorted here I think Dan will be one of first to head home.

Some people on this board would drop the entire squad every few months and pick whoever is 'on form' or performing well against Treviso in the pro12. (the same is said of the Blues and Ponty players but that hasn't really worked out well either)

Dropping Halfpenny?! Why? Because he has only had a couple of game? Because he was only in average form from those 2 games? - The fact is, he is a quality, world class player who is experienced and knows what he needs to do when wearing red. He will pick up his game for Wales with a few weeks of training, no doubt.

The same can be said of JD2, Lydiate, Hibbard, Gethin etc

Even players who are not in form, like Cuthbert and Allen will no doubt play a lot better come the aus game.

The only problems I have are with the players who have shown then cannot, or no longer can raise their game to what we need - Mike Phillips and Rhys Preistland.

If we brought in new players for every tournament there would be absolutely no gameplan or defensive organisation that couldn't be broken in 20 minutes by any of the big teams, or indeed by Fiji/Samoa as history has shown when we throw a large group of inexperienced internationals into a starting lineup

bedfordwelsh wrote:.

Am a Cory Allen fan so happy with him and O Williams not been doing that well at 12 for Tigers by all accounts.

 Think most tiger fans will be saying he has done a bloody good job at 12 and doesn't look out of place although he is a 10.

wales606 wrote:Dropping Halfpenny?! Why? Because he has only had a couple of game? Because he was only in average form from those 2 games? - The fact is, he is a quality, world class player who is experienced and knows what he needs to do when wearing red. He will pick up his game for Wales with a few weeks of training, no doubt.

Why? Well there is the whole thing of 'honest' Gatland who has said before that he will 'honestly' plump for a player at the regions over a player outside of Wales should they be of equal form and/or quality. Seeing as Dan Evans has been a stand out for the Ospreys (and Dragons last few seasons too), and Liam Williams is constantly putting in brave and committed performances (as well as outplaying Halfpenny in the ERCC), then 'honestly' Gatland should not be fielding Halfpenny ahead of them. In addition to that we are playing SA when Halfpenny is unavailable, so unless we want to go into that game with under cooked players, who have been bench sitting for best part of a month, then we should be looking at getting players available for the SA game on the field against Aus and NZ too.

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:.

Am a Cory Allen fan so happy with him and O Williams not been doing that well at 12 for Tigers by all accounts.

 Think most tiger fans will be saying he has done a bloody good job at 12 and doesn't look out of place although he is a 10.

Sure I read that they were questioning his defence at 12?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wales606 wrote:Dropping Halfpenny?! Why? Because he has only had a couple of game? Because he was only in average form from those 2 games? - The fact is, he is a quality, world class player who is experienced and knows what he needs to do when wearing red. He will pick up his game for Wales with a few weeks of training, no doubt.

Why? Well there is the whole thing of 'honest' Gatland who has said before that he will 'honestly' plump for a player at the regions over a player outside of Wales should they be of equal form and/or quality.  Seeing as Dan Evans has been a stand out for the Ospreys (and Dragons last few seasons too), and Liam Williams is constantly putting in brave and committed performances (as well as outplaying Halfpenny in the ERCC), then 'honestly' Gatland should not be fielding Halfpenny ahead of them.  In addition to that we are playing SA when Halfpenny is unavailable, so unless we want to go into that game with under cooked players, who have been bench sitting for best part of a month, then we should be looking at getting players available for the SA game on the field against Aus and NZ too.

Thank you SS my sentiments exactly

To be honest you cannot really argue with his squad, bar one or two decisions, the only worry I have, is what his starting 15 will be.

LordDowlais wrote:To be honest you cannot really argue with his squad, bar one or two decisions, the only worry I have, is what his starting 15 will be.

LD,

In all honesty I only have 2/3 real concerns over his possible starting XV as I think the other likely starters will come good, the 2 that worry me are Phillips and Priestland, as is Jenkins but to a lesser degree.

Priestland, Prydie and Allen are poor selections for me the first two should be ditched for good from the national squad.

Why not give Williams a shot (Tigers) @ 10 or 12 cover from the bench. I prefer Bishop at centre at least he has a good defence.

Good to see Amos getting a shot behind a solid pack, the other choice at wing I expected was Walker but Walker has done little on the wing but he does show potential and has pace.

Disagree on Allen Alun, think he needs to be given bit of run as and stuck with, Bishop is solid but thats it and hasn't been involved in the squad for a long time.

I think it was a choice between Walker and Amos though you argue Walker should be in ahead of Prydie, maybe its Prydies ability to play XV as well that got him the nod. Then again Dan Evans can play wing and XV so he would have been a better call.

Some want to reward form, some go with experience while others complain of the rest not having enough game time. These are all points I raised long before the squad was announced. So if you agree, my starting XV is the one . No.6 and No.14 are the only jersey still being contested IMO, along with places on the bench.

Bedford, I see potential with Allen but the games I have seen him play this season he was disappointing, my biggest gripe is Priestland.

I can see the logic of the forwards selections even though I like I Evans at second row, he is more likely to be available for the last game than Charteris.

Saint

If you pick on form most of the team should be Osprey players G Jenkins was second best as was Warburton hence should not be in your team. The other in your team is Faletau King and Bearman should be ahead at 6, I agree Baker at 8.

I dont have a problem with Priesland, he has been off form and had had a number of injuries but he has a grand slam and sucessful world cup behind him and is slowly getting back to fitness in a struggling Scarlets side. He and the man in posession (Biggar) both suffer when put under pressure and I see them both coming under pressure from the likes of Owen Williams, Patchell and possibly Anscombe in the future.

I was suprised at Prydie, also James King, is he first choice for Ospreys? I really like Amos but not sure if his future is at wing. Eli Walker is a great talent but he is made of glass and constantly injured. I like Allen and would always have him ahead of Bishop who doesn't seem to have the pace for test level rugby.

Suprise ommissions for me: Matthew Rees, Rob Evans, Turnbull, Dan Evans, I would also have picked either Patchell or Owen Williams as a back up 10 in case of injuries.

glamorganalun wrote:Saint

If you pick on form most of the team should be Osprey players G Jenkins was second best as was Warburton hence should not be in your team. The other in your team is Faletau King and Bearman should be ahead at 6, I agree Baker at 8.

Just Ospreys players? Fair point. Except, Bernardo isn't Welsh, neither is Arhip or Matavesi. King isn't our best 6 and Tips hasn't had enough game time, these last two are most obvious for me. Some of those guys aren't playing better than Patchell, S.Williams, L.Williams, Hibbard, North, Ball.... So how do you explain all Ospreys players?

Got to be honest, I picked the front row because working together I think that's our best unit.

The rugby god himself speaks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29712836

bedfordwelsh wrote:Disagree on Allen Alun, think he needs to be given bit of run as and stuck with, Bishop is solid but thats it and hasn't been involved in the squad for a long time.

I think it was a choice between Walker and Amos though you argue Walker should be in ahead of  Prydie, maybe its Prydies ability to play XV as well that got him the nod.  Then again Dan Evans can play wing and XV so he would have been a better call.

Prydie can now also play 13 and can kick, so he is more versatile.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:.

Am a Cory Allen fan so happy with him and O Williams not been doing that well at 12 for Tigers by all accounts.

 Think most tiger fans will be saying he has done a bloody good job at 12 and doesn't look out of place although he is a 10.

Sure I read that they were questioning his defence at 12?

 They were until the Ulster and Quins games he has really improve and made a lot (and there were a lot to begin with in terms of him playing 12) of people change there view on him playing 12, but everyone wants to see him @ 10 though.

The front row becomes interesting when you take into account the SA game. For that game we will be without James and Hibbard add to that the omission of A Jones it is going to be a very in-experienced front row.

Let's say Lee is the likely starter at T/Head do you then go with:

Jenkins and Phillips that way you have at least a hooker and T/Head use to playing alongside each other

or

Smith and Baldwin, that would be very in-experienced but you have a L/Head nad hooker who play alongside each other

bedfordwelsh wrote:Jh,

Even as a Dragons fan was surprised to see Prydie in there but Walker not convinced me still so may Evans ahead of Prtdie would have been more like for like.

Agree with you on King, I would have had Cudd or Turnbull ahead of him.

Mitchell has never reached his early potential and Jenkins not up to scratch at mo and James unavailable for the Boks so Smith could get some good game time.

Am a Cory Allen fan so happy with him and O Williams not been doing that well at 12 for Tigers by all accounts.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Gatland is trying to make a new Hook out of Prydie after the statements he has made about him today e.g his versatility about him covering center, wing, fullback. However, if he was going to do that then he should pick someone like Owen Williams who has been a really good form for the tigers by reports; could cover 10,12,15 by all means and is a very consistent goal kicker unlike Preistland who doesn't deserve to be in the team. We can't blame Rhys' performance on his confidence anymore because he just isn't consistent enough for us (Scarlet's) and won't cope with the pressure and international level (like he has proven numerous amounts of time). If Gatland has seen that it's now time to look past Adam Jones (rightfully so because of his drop in form), then he should be making the same decisions with Rhys.

Glad im not the only one with King, Gatland has admitted himself he will need to put on weight to match the physicality of international level. Cudd might struggle as well whihc is why I think turnball would have been the best option.

My worries is just with tight head, Jenkins hasn't been playing but how many times has this happened in the past and he has proved everyone wrong. I'm just hoping that Samson (i say him because he is most likely to start) can hold his own and have a strong game against a good Leicester tigers scrum next saturday.

Someone get Owen Williams on a DC at the Dragons.... But knowing Scarlets they'd want him back. IMO Steve Shingler has not really kicked from his LV cup days.

Actually a little surprise Navidi doesn't get a look in, covers 6,7 and 8 and tackles his heart out.

bedfordwelsh wrote:irnbrew,

Fair one and I am one of Dans biggest fans but I just don't think the whole move has worked for him, that said if he plays he won't let us down.

None of the French exiles have had much game time really so I guess all of them are a bit of a gamble, to complicate things with Lydiate they also play a left right system which he admitted himself took him sometime to get use to.

With all the fuss coming out of France ref players playing for their National side and what with the new dual contracts getting sorted here I think Dan will be one of first to head home.

Remember though mate that in France the teams have larger squads with more all round talent through out. Game time is a prerequisite of play vs rest not solely form...

mm,

Agreed but there is no substitute for playing, despite how many times Gatland rolls out he's been doing well in training quote.

maes, how long you going to try and keep on making excuses for your favourites out in France. Time to face the facts that France might once have been a good place to develop, but now it's just detrimental to a career.

I think some (Alfie, S Jones and Byrne) have done well and I think Doc, Halfpenny and JD will all do well but for others such as Jenkins, Phillips it didn't work. Also think think Lydiate will be first of this crop to return home.

Doc and Halfpenny could fit into any team to be honest, but it's not going so well for JD2. Byrne was at the end of his career and some good years of club rugby left, it didn't do anything to improve him as a player.

Are moves all about improving them as players though, its not going well at mo for JD but he's good enough to make it work. Its still his first season and I really think him and Fofana will soon force a great partnership.

Bedford, it's like any other business. Working abroad looks good on the CV and helps you have a career in rugby until you retire. Guys like JD2, a Lions players, shouldn't need time to make it work, that's BS. The incentive for these young guys was partly money I bet, some of them could be a millionaire by the time they're 30. Doc might want to start a business in Paris with his earnings and qualifications. The incentives here go beyond playing for a French rugby team I think, though I do see the attraction in playing for these French teams.

Money was the main incentive I have no doubt but saying it doesn't take time is also BS. We are what 10 games into the new season and like in business where you have to get use to new ways of doing things and fitting into to their system.

How so, rugby is rugby. You're either a pro player or you aren't. Nobody else takes time to settle in to a team; tell that to all the SH guys who've played in teams up here. Tell that to Hibbard and North. Tell that to the baa-baa's. Tell that to both the England teams who played NZ in the first and second tests.
JD2 might grow into a successful midfield with Fofana etc, but right now he's looking fairly average when he should be setting the Top 14 alight.

Hibbard was terrible his first few games for Glaws, did Carter really set the world alight with Perpignan?

Not so sure if Hibbard was terrible, maybe that's just your opinion? I've watched Glaws twice, early in the season and their most recent game. He was good in both. Carter played 2 matches for Perpignan......

Terrible maybe not but his form was poor at the beginning of the season and how many games has JD played.

By your reckoning Carter should have been brilliant in those 2 games and as a Lion Hibbard should have been at his best from the off.

Not really, it just seems like you're desperately trying to make excuses for JD2. There aren't any. Not sure how many games JD has started, but that must be to do with his form. Carter ruptured his Achilles tendon therefore could not play.

If you're referring to Gloucester's first game where they lost by 50 odd points to Saints...then I'm sure that wasn't entirely Hibbard's fault.

So how come the Hibbard and JD situation is different?