My Wales 23 for AIs (SQUAD ANNOUNCED)

First topic message reminder :

I'm picking my current Wales 23 based on form, though I accept it is maybe too soon because we still have the European rugby cup to be played.

15. Liam Williams
14. Hallam Amos
13. Cory Allen
12. Scott Williams
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar

9. Rhys Webb

8. Dan Baker
7. Sam Warburton
6. Taulupe Faletau
5. AWJ (c)
4. Ball
3. Lee
2. Hibbard
1. Jenkins

Reps: Baldwin, James, A.Jones, Charteris/Davies/Evans, Navidi/Tipuric, G.Davies, Patchell, J.Davies.

Not sure who is injured atm, so have included a few options. The rest of the squad though will be the usual. I also think Cuthbert will be picked on the other wing, but he is in some bad form right now, hence being left out of my squad.

Feel free to add and pick apart. We've a few weeks yet.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Forwards:
Gethin Jenkins, Paul James, Nicky Smith, Aaron Jarvis, Rhodri Jones, Samson Lee, Scott Baldwin, Richard Hibbard, Emyr Phillips, Jake Ball, AWJ, Luke Charteris, Bradley Davies, James King, Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Sam Warburton (c), Dan Baker, Taulupe Faletau.

Backs:
Mike Phillips, Rhys Webb, Rhodri Williams, Dan Biggar, Rhys Priestland, Cory Allen, JD2, JAmie Roberts, Scott Williams, Hallam Amos, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Tom Prydie, Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams.

No Adam Jones, Rhys Patchell, James Hook. Nicky Thomas is the only new face.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Tipuric had a very good game yesterday but I didn't think he was at his best.

Whens that ever stopped Gatland picking players

Rather a catty comment their mate...???

Again and again supporters deride his decisions and inevitably he proves you wrong.

Maes,

I have been one of his biggest backers and still think he is the right man for us but I do think he needs to get rid of some of the dead wood from his coaching staff and freshen it up a bit and he really now needs to show he has no faves and pick the players on form.

I have a rather bad sneaky feeling we will see the likes of Phillips ahead of Webb, Jenkins ahead of Smith or James and even Priestland ahead of Biggar. If that happens then he is even pushing my trust to breaking point.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Tipuric had a very good game yesterday but I didn't think he was at his best.

Whens that ever stopped Gatland picking players

Rather a catty comment their mate...???

Again and again supporters deride his decisions and inevitably he proves you wrong.

Maes,

I have been one of his biggest backers and still think he is the right man for us but I do think he needs to get rid of some of the dead wood from his coaching staff and freshen it up a bit and he really now needs to show he has no faves and pick the players on form.

I have a rather bad sneaky feeling we will see the likes of Phillips ahead of Webb, Jenkins ahead of Smith or James and even Priestland ahead of Biggar.  If that happens then he is even pushing my trust to breaking point.

I don't read many posters on hear bagging Steve Hansen for picking Dan Carter for the ABs touring party...!!!

Dan Carter is dead wood?

One of the reasons Wales lost to South Africa last season was they had 3 players off in the first 30 minutes you seem to forget that .and as to an unfit Lydiate taking the blame was there not 2 other back rows playing that day for Wales how some of you Welsh on here love to apportion blame to certain players and never mention others probably come from there regions

irnbrew wrote:One of the reasons Wales lost to South Africa last season was they had 3 players off in the first 30 minutes  you seem to forget that .and as to an unfit Lydiate taking the blame was there not  2 other back rows playing that day for Wales how some of you Welsh on here love to apportion blame to certain players and never mention others probably come from there regions

There is a type of person who would rather deride a situation no matter whether it is positive or not prior to a result. They know that this will rarely leave them with an opportunity to have their past assumptions ridiculed. In general when things turn out positively every usually forgets derision in their jubilation.

Unfortunately, should the result turn out to be negative these same people purr their favourite four words, "I Told You So..."

maes weren't you just suggesting Steve Hansen picked dead wood, in the form of the world's best player Dan Carter though?

maestegmafia wrote:

irnbrew wrote:One of the reasons Wales lost to South Africa last season was they had 3 players off in the first 30 minutes  you seem to forget that .and as to an unfit Lydiate taking the blame was there not  2 other back rows playing that day for Wales how some of you Welsh on here love to apportion blame to certain players and never mention others probably come from there regions

There is a type of person who would rather deride a situation no matter whether it is positive or not prior to a result. They know that this will rarely leave them with an opportunity to have their past assumptions ridiculed. In general when things turn out positively every usually forgets derision in their jubilation.

Unfortunately, should the result turn out to be negative these same people purr their favourite four words, "I Told You So..."

Maes, then there are others, who always peddle the WRU line, whether it be the Dodger, Gatland, Howley or even the European debate, FFS our record AGAINST the SH countries since Gatland took over is WORSE than England, Scotland and Ireland against them, what idiots had us play them every season and because of this we are now in the group of death in next years World Cup and more than likely if we get knocked out in the group stages, the same scenario will continue.

The Saint wrote:maes weren't you just suggesting Steve Hansen picked dead wood, in the form of the world's best player Dan Carter though?

No

I said that other coaches picking players on reputation don't get criticised on this forum

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

irnbrew wrote:One of the reasons Wales lost to South Africa last season was they had 3 players off in the first 30 minutes  you seem to forget that .and as to an unfit Lydiate taking the blame was there not  2 other back rows playing that day for Wales how some of you Welsh on here love to apportion blame to certain players and never mention others probably come from there regions

There is a type of person who would rather deride a situation no matter whether it is positive or not prior to a result. They know that this will rarely leave them with an opportunity to have their past assumptions ridiculed. In general when things turn out positively every usually forgets derision in their jubilation.

Unfortunately, should the result turn out to be negative these same people purr their favourite four words, "I Told You So..."

Maes, then there are others, who always peddle the WRU line, whether it be the Dodger, Gatland, Howley or even the European debate, FFS our record AGAINST the SH countries since Gatland took over is WORSE than England, Scotland and Ireland against them, what idiots had us play them every season and because of this we are now in the group of death in next years World Cup and more than likely if we get knocked out in the group stages, the same scenario will continue.  

Or

As Gatland stated his focus is on the RWC and he will win our group.

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:maes weren't you just suggesting Steve Hansen picked dead wood, in the form of the world's best player Dan Carter though?

No

I said that other coaches picking players on reputation don't get criticised on this forum

From what you wrote that is what you were implying. There aren't many that do pick on reputation, but if they do there are only a few examples that stand out as poor selections and Carter is not one of them. He still remains the best (or 2nd best) in his position in world rugby.

Most of us rugby folk here can distinguish between questioning/discussing Gatland and blatantly slagging him off, but I don't think you or your buddy inbrew can do that. So if the both of you can't discuss it without whining and dragging the article off topic with dumb comments, ones that I'm not going to bother dissecting because they're so pointless and stupid, I suggest you both take a hike.

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:maes weren't you just suggesting Steve Hansen picked dead wood, in the form of the world's best player Dan Carter though?

No

I said that other coaches picking players on reputation don't get criticised on this forum

Picking Carter off form or by reputation is nowhere comparable to picking Priestland.

Bedford yourbeung a touch harsh on Priest, ignore the goal kicking, and watch him purely as a fly half, and he is a decent option.  Definitely in the top two or three Wales have to choose from.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford yourbeung a touch harsh on Priest, ignore the goal kicking, and watch him purely as a fly half, and he is a decent option.  Definitely in the top two or three Wales have to choose from.

If Priestland could get back to anywhere near his 2011 form then I would agree but IMO he is such a confidence type play that when that goes which it has doen then his wole game suffers. I have also stated in the past that he has been badly managed (especially by Howley) and picked when so clearly off form as well that it has had a big negative affect on him.

He isn't at RWC'11 form, but he is not off form, if that makes sense.  At the moment, all Wales have to choose from are Biggar, a not at 100% form Priest, a Swiss army knife called Hook, an off colour (now fullback) Patchell, young untested O'Brien and passport plagued Tovey.  Oh Owen Williams too, be being played so much in the centre hinders him too.

So given the choices, who would really be s better option?  Also having Priest there gives 99% of the public their scapegoat ready for when we get man shamed by the big three.

Agree that we are not in the best place at No10 currently.

Its a shame Williams blotted his copy book in he summer and that Patchell is being moved about at the moment.

Currently I would go :

Biggar
Patchell
Priestland

In that order then the likes of Williams Hook and Tovey as the also rans

Anyone see Holley's team on Scrum v? Sounds like he agrees with us with regards to picking the team Fiji.

The Saint wrote:Anyone see Holley's team on Scrum v? Sounds like he agrees with us with regards to picking the team Fiji.

I am pretty much with him on the team to face Australia as well, not sure (but wouldn't be unhappy) about Davies in 2nd row but other than that I agree with.  However listening to Jiffy and Nuggett they would and expect to see he same old faces rolled out.  Which means Jenkins, Lydiate, Phillips for Webb, JD and Roberts, Halfpenny for Williams.

You'd think for older heads that watch a lot of rugby they would be a bit more smarter. I've no idea why some people can't see past same ol same ol when it isn't working and recognise form.

The Saint wrote:You'd think for older heads that watch a lot of rugby they would be a bit more smarter. I've no idea why some people can't see past same ol same ol when it isn't working and recognise form.

God knows really, I think you can to a degree make decent arguments for James, Halfpenny and the centres maybe but even as a huge Lydiate fan he's just not had enough game time for me and also if Phillips starts at 9 then you could excuse Webb for thinking what more he has to do.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:maes weren't you just suggesting Steve Hansen picked dead wood, in the form of the world's best player Dan Carter though?

No

I said that other coaches picking players on reputation don't get criticised on this forum

Picking Carter off form or by reputation is nowhere comparable to picking Priestland.

We were discussing Tipuric mate...

I don't think priestlands form has been that bad. Scarlets have taken some notable results this season with him at the helm.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:You'd think for older heads that watch a lot of rugby they would be a bit more smarter. I've no idea why some people can't see past same ol same ol when it isn't working and recognise form.

God knows really, I think you can to a degree make decent arguments for James, Halfpenny and the centres maybe but even as a huge Lydiate fan he's just not had enough game time for me and also if Phillips starts at 9 then you could excuse Webb for thinking what more he has to do.

Exactly. If we have that front 5 that I'm thinking then we could get them up front the way we did SA in the 2nd test and that would at least give us a chance. Just need a good mix in the backs then to help score tries. Biggar needs to kick less and a bit smarter, the Wallabies will just run it back at every opportunity if we aren't smart enough.

We know Gatland has his favourites, but I'd suggest even he doesnt have the gonads to start some who have simply not been playing.

My 23 would be..

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. AWJ
5. Davies
6. Faletau
7. Warburton
8. Baker
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Scott Williams
13. Corey Allen
14. Halfpenny
15. Liam Williams

16. Jenkins
17. Phillips
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris otherwise
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Priestland
23. Cuthbert

Would have had Ball starting with Davies on the bench.
Would have had Gareth Davies over Philips on the bech.
Would have had Owens starting/on bench had he not been injured.
Would have had JD2 starting at 13 if fit.

I'm sti;; not sure about Faletau at 6, I would leave him at 8 and then decide between Warburton, Lydiate and Tipuric to fill 6 and 7

bedford, I'm an advocate of it, I think hes an exceptional player and I think he could operate at 6 as easily as he does at 8. I think having another ball carrier in the back row he'd hopefully get more room to use his footwork and pace. One thing we've lacked in the back 5 is effective ball carriers, moving Faletau keeps him in the backrow (the only player certain of his spot there imo) and allows Baker to get on the field.

I'd rather move Faletau to 6 than bring Lydiate back in currently. That and I dont think Tipuric/warbs/faletau work as a unit unless the front 5 is doing more than its fair share of close quarer work. Considering we havent exactly been consistent or on fire for a while I'd like to use form payers where possible and players who will work (and can perform) at a high intesnity for the 80.

Comfort,

I am not saying it wouldn't work and I agree that Faletau could most probably play 6 or 7 as well if need be and he certainly would if asked I am just not sure about it but if don't try not know.

I would rather start him at 8 then maybe move him there during game and bring Baker on.

Yeah Im with you Bedford, Im not sure how it'd go at all! he could be rubbish at 6 and maybe the complexities of that position compared to an 8 escape me. That's probably a smarter way to go about it, I'd just like to see how it goes!

By all accounts the team is announced today so I would just like to get this in early. Whether or not I will agree with Gatlands selection remains to be seen and between announcement and Saturday I am sure we will all become better selectors than him BUT come Saturday whatever Welsh team takes the field will have my support 110%

C'Mon Cymru

Well said mate

It would be nice to see fans jump on the positives of a team selection ahead of going straight for their perceived negatives

A thought you say you would,nt pick Lyds as he's short of game time so how does not picking him improve that situation and as i have said previously Tips has had less game time than Lyds Lyds has started 2 games and come off the bench on 4 or 5 games one being for 60 minutes when racing beat toloun and had top tackler in that game as i said just a thought

Wales team for Aus

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Paul James (Bath), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Unattached), Sam Warburton (Capt), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (London Wasps), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues).

Very predictable side. I would have swaped Halfpenny and Liam Williams, I would also have been tempted to go with Cory on the wing and North in place of Cuthbert. Paul James and Samson are scrumaging props, with the more mobile extra backrow style props to come on latter in the game. Lets hope Samson does not get injured early on and Rhodri just cannot hack the scrummaging at this level. I think Charteris would have started if available but Ball have been playing very well for a struggling Scarlets side, he is a player who gives everything.

Can't really argue with the selection to be honest (except the unending complaint of Phillips and Preistland)

Slightly surprised Gethin has been dropped, I think he has actually been playing pretty well at the Blues and been treated a bit harshly at the breakdown by a few refs, - but I haven't seen how Paul James has been playing though.

Gethin, Bradley and Tipuric can make an impact of the bench, not so sure about Baldwin (lineouts under pressure) and Rhodri (at THP). Allen is off form, but may well pick up with Wales and make an impact. If we need Preistland/Phillips, we're dooooomed.

Lydiate has done nothing in a national or club shirt for two years to warrant his selection, he needs a huge game. Which he is more than capable of. Otherwise, fairplay, Gatland seems to have ACTUALLY looked at quality players, in form.

take it you did not see the second test against south africa in the summer where Lyds had outstanding stats and was said it was of the best performances of any welsh team abroad aye but what do the pundits know

What do they know exactly? I think I'll save my description of 'best ever performances' for a game where we don't squander a 17 point lead, including being 13 points ahead in the last 10 minutes, if it's all the same to you. Lydiate barely played since then.

irnbrew wrote:take it you did not see the second test against south africa in the summer where Lyds had outstanding stats and was said it was of the best performances of any welsh team abroad  aye but what do the pundits know

If they agree with my biased views? Everything.
If they disagree with my biased views? Nothing.

But if you ever wonder whether pundits' opinions are worth much, ask yourself...what would Guscott say?

Great selection, George will be centre full time soon I think. Subtle changes but good ones.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Great selection, George will be centre full time soon I think.  Subtle changes but good ones.

Emergency choice or option for mixing it up late in the game only for me. Anyone who saw his performance against the Ospreys would agree that he is one of the best wings in the World at present, why move your best player if you don't have to?

How do you feel about North at outside centre?

If you think back to how ineffective he was against Ireland when he made the switch early on should tell you all you need to know about North at 13.

Then again he played pretty well there for Northampton at times and even against Australia last year so who knows?

I have a feeling that players like Kuridrani and Ashley-Cooper are going to enjoy running on his outside shoulder between him and Cuthbert.

Well here's my take on what I think is a very good side:

1. So glad he hasn't gone with all his tried and tested players, I honestly expected him to pick Jenkins and Phillips but SOOOOOOOOO glad he's gone with James and Webb.

2. People are questioning Lydiates inclusion over Tipuric but both are lacking gametime and have played pretty much same amount, so for me a backrow with a rusty Lydiate where by all are in their right position is better than an out of position Warburton and a rusty Tipuric.

3. Personally would have swapped Halfpenny and Williams or even left Williams at XV and maybe Halfpenny on the bench with Amos on the wing.

4. North at centre is something people have been asking for for a while so let's see how it goes though I am a bit concerned about his defence as IMO its quite poor at best on occasions.

I am very pleased with this side as like I said I really expected the tried and tested to be rolled out.

North is a decent emergency option, but I wouldn't want to see it regularly unless he has regular gametime at club level to shore up his defence and decision making at outside centre.

Still, it is exciting and will be interesting if he gets his hands on the ball more often, and Roberts can cover well in defence.

Kuridrani is a bit threat in midfield - I worry about him running in-between an out-of-position North and a poor Cuthbert

Lydaite and Cuthbert starting is nothing short of absolutely unbelievable. Form still means feck all.

irnbrew wrote:take it you did not see the second test against south africa in the summer where Lyds had outstanding stats and was said it was of the best performances of any welsh team abroad  aye but what do the pundits know

inbrew you really are dumb. Last summer was last summer, it's the present that matters. As others have said, Lyd's needs a massive game but unfortunately I see us just getting demolished at the breakdown by Hooper, it's the exact same situation at the exact same time last year.

The Saint wrote:Lydaite and Cuthbert starting is nothing short of absolutely unbelievable. Form still means feck all.

But what form has Tipuric got which seems to be the other alternative people want.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:Lydaite and Cuthbert starting is nothing short of absolutely unbelievable. Form still means feck all.

But what form has Tipuric got which seems to be the other alternative people want.

Exactly, short of throwing in everyone who has a good game for their club the week before it is always been a balancing act between form, experience and proven class.

Gatland has gone with form in a lot of areas - James, Webb, Lee - but there is nobody really putting pressure on Cuthbert (especially with North moved to centre) and Lydiate has as much form at Tipuric with both having minimal gametime - but Lydiate is the balance Gatland wants in his gameplan.

I would have happily seen Amos on the wing if North was on the other but I have said for some while now that we need an alternative to the big guys on the wings so I guess Williams is that alternative.

If Tipuric had been playing all season and Dan hadn't then I would say ok swap Warburton but as I said earlier if you done that now the back row would be made up of 1 player out of position and one player very rusty.. At least now we have everyone in their natural position with only one rusty.

If it doesn't work then ok change it.

I am very peeved with the fact that he has picked George North in the center and Liam Williams on the wing, we have a center on the bench FFS, why does he always like playing players out of position ? He should have gone with Cory Allen in the center, after all he is a center, Cuthbert should not be there, he should have put Halfpenny on his wing with Liam Williams at fullback. Other than this, not a bad side.

Not me Bedford, you can see my pick in the OP. It was only Ospreys fans who wanted Tips to start, they seem to think he's the bees knees. We need to be faster at the breakdown when we're on the attack, I don't think Lydiate helps offer that right now with so little form and match fitness.