My Wales 23 for AIs (SQUAD ANNOUNCED)

First topic message reminder :

I'm picking my current Wales 23 based on form, though I accept it is maybe too soon because we still have the European rugby cup to be played.

15. Liam Williams
14. Hallam Amos
13. Cory Allen
12. Scott Williams
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar

9. Rhys Webb

8. Dan Baker
7. Sam Warburton
6. Taulupe Faletau
5. AWJ (c)
4. Ball
3. Lee
2. Hibbard
1. Jenkins

Reps: Baldwin, James, A.Jones, Charteris/Davies/Evans, Navidi/Tipuric, G.Davies, Patchell, J.Davies.

Not sure who is injured atm, so have included a few options. The rest of the squad though will be the usual. I also think Cuthbert will be picked on the other wing, but he is in some bad form right now, hence being left out of my squad.

Feel free to add and pick apart. We've a few weeks yet.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Forwards:
Gethin Jenkins, Paul James, Nicky Smith, Aaron Jarvis, Rhodri Jones, Samson Lee, Scott Baldwin, Richard Hibbard, Emyr Phillips, Jake Ball, AWJ, Luke Charteris, Bradley Davies, James King, Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Sam Warburton (c), Dan Baker, Taulupe Faletau.

Backs:
Mike Phillips, Rhys Webb, Rhodri Williams, Dan Biggar, Rhys Priestland, Cory Allen, JD2, JAmie Roberts, Scott Williams, Hallam Amos, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Tom Prydie, Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams.

No Adam Jones, Rhys Patchell, James Hook. Nicky Thomas is the only new face.

LordDowlais wrote:I am very peeved with the fact that he has picked George North in the center and Liam Williams on the wing, we have a center on the bench FFS, why does he always like playing players out of position ? He should have gone with Cory Allen in the center, after all he is a center, Cuthbert should not be there, he should have put Halfpenny on his wing with Liam Williams at fullback. Other than this, not a bad side.

My best guess is Allen is not fully fit

St read the comments on there before my comment it was that Lyds had done nothing in the wales shirt for the past 2 years which included the sa tour so who,s dumb now ST

Higher_Ground wrote:What do they know exactly? I think I'll save my description of 'best ever performances' for a game where we don't squander a 17 point lead, including being 13 points ahead in the last 10 minutes, if it's all the same to you. Lydiate barely played since then.

Faletau is the only back row player to have played more than Lydiate this season. The guy has always been dependable at worst and an inspirational match winner from the dark arts and hard graft school at best.

irnbrew wrote:St read the comments on there before my comment it was that Lyds had done nothing in the wales shirt for the past 2 years which included the sa tour so who,s dumb now ST

I've read all your comments. It looks as if it's you who isn't paying attention and lacking common sense. So it's you that is dumb. And take the Lydiate blinkers off.

The Saint wrote:Not me Bedford, you can see my pick in the OP. It was only Ospreys fans who wanted Tips to start, they seem to think he's the bees knees. We need to be faster at the breakdown when we're on the attack, I don't think Lydiate helps offer that right now with so little form and match fitness.

So Iron Mike, Higher Ground, Lord are ospreys supporters are they, Maesteg Mafia is, Bedford Welsh after the squad was selected and Scarlet Spidermen the same, ALL picked Tipuric in their back row for the first game. FYI the first 3 are ALL blues supporters, yet don't let facts actually get in the way of your argument, BWs team was selected on Tues 21/10 at 12.15 and SS is on 30/10 at 1.29.

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not me Bedford, you can see my pick in the OP. It was only Ospreys fans who wanted Tips to start, they seem to think he's the bees knees. We need to be faster at the breakdown when we're on the attack, I don't think Lydiate helps offer that right now with so little form and match fitness.

So Iron Mike, Higher Ground, Lord are ospreys supporters are they, Maesteg Mafia is, Bedford Welsh after the squad was selected and Scarlet Spidermen the same, ALL picked Tipuric in their back row for the first game. FYI the first 3 are ALL blues supporters, yet don't let facts actually get in the way of your argument, BWs team was selected on Tues 21/10 at 12.15 and SS is on 30/10 at 1.29.

Lord most definitely is, he just doesn't like to admit it. Wow that's some phenomenal research there, all for your boy Tipuric. Warbs and Tips would actually be best to combat Aus, just not right not with Tips having little game time, etc... If some of those posters did pick him in their starting team they seem to have contradicted themselves somewhere along the way.

The Saint wrote:

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not me Bedford, you can see my pick in the OP. It was only Ospreys fans who wanted Tips to start, they seem to think he's the bees knees. We need to be faster at the breakdown when we're on the attack, I don't think Lydiate helps offer that right now with so little form and match fitness.

So Iron Mike, Higher Ground, Lord are ospreys supporters are they, Maesteg Mafia is, Bedford Welsh after the squad was selected and Scarlet Spidermen the same, ALL picked Tipuric in their back row for the first game. FYI the first 3 are ALL blues supporters, yet don't let facts actually get in the way of your argument, BWs team was selected on Tues 21/10 at 12.15 and SS is on 30/10 at 1.29.

Lord most definitely is, he just doesn't like to admit it. Wow that's some phenomenal research there, all for your boy Tipuric. Warbs and Tips would actually be best to combat Aus, just not right not with Tips having little game time, etc... If some of those posters did pick him in their starting team they seem to have contradicted themselves somewhere along the way.

Lord supports all the Welsh teams, yet predominately goes to watch the Blues with his father, as for phenomenal research, NAH, I just knew there were a fair few NON Osprey supporters who had selected him, and also that Bedford had after the squad was announced, it is just you do not know who you are up against.

I'm a Blues supporter, but I'm a fan of the Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau backrow. Lydiate is great in defence but he hasn't had much game time this season, I worry he'll struggle with the pace.

Tipuric has had some time off with injury this season, but I was impressed by what I saw, especially in that 20 minutes against Munster.

IronMike wrote:I'm a Blues supporter, but I'm a fan of the Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau backrow. Lydiate is great in defence but he hasn't had much game time this season, I worry he'll struggle with the pace.

Tipuric has had some time off with injury this season, but I was impressed by what I saw, especially in that 20 minutes against Munster.

Iron Mike, I agree with you for this game I too would have selected that trio, Tips missed a few of those games because of concussion, his fitness is remarkable, Sam Lewis was named MOTM last week, and many were raving about Ieuan Jones, they both had good games, yet if you look at the stats on ESPN, the truly outstanding performance was given by Tips, IIRC he made 20 tackles with none missed, whereas the other 2 tackled less and missed more, he had 3 lineout takes and he made more turnovers than the other 2, the only facet of the game that he was outshone by either of those 2 was in Ieuans runs and metres made.

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not me Bedford, you can see my pick in the OP. It was only Ospreys fans who wanted Tips to start, they seem to think he's the bees knees. We need to be faster at the breakdown when we're on the attack, I don't think Lydiate helps offer that right now with so little form and match fitness.

So Iron Mike, Higher Ground, Lord are ospreys supporters are they, Maesteg Mafia is, Bedford Welsh after the squad was selected and Scarlet Spidermen the same, ALL picked Tipuric in their back row for the first game. FYI the first 3 are ALL blues supporters, yet don't let facts actually get in the way of your argument, BWs team was selected on Tues 21/10 at 12.15 and SS is on 30/10 at 1.29.

Lord most definitely is, he just doesn't like to admit it. Wow that's some phenomenal research there, all for your boy Tipuric. Warbs and Tips would actually be best to combat Aus, just not right not with Tips having little game time, etc... If some of those posters did pick him in their starting team they seem to have contradicted themselves somewhere along the way.

Lord supports all the Welsh teams, yet predominately goes to watch the Blues with his father, as for phenomenal research, NAH, I just knew there were a fair few NON Osprey supporters who had selected him, and also that Bedford had after the squad was announced, it is just you do not know who you are up against.

I thought I was up against some dwarf who used to be in the armed forces. I think that's pretty spot on tbh... least of my worries as I'm busy now and will be the next few days. Hope you all enjoy the game!

The Saint wrote:

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not me Bedford, you can see my pick in the OP. It was only Ospreys fans who wanted Tips to start, they seem to think he's the bees knees. We need to be faster at the breakdown when we're on the attack, I don't think Lydiate helps offer that right now with so little form and match fitness.

So Iron Mike, Higher Ground, Lord are ospreys supporters are they, Maesteg Mafia is, Bedford Welsh after the squad was selected and Scarlet Spidermen the same, ALL picked Tipuric in their back row for the first game. FYI the first 3 are ALL blues supporters, yet don't let facts actually get in the way of your argument, BWs team was selected on Tues 21/10 at 12.15 and SS is on 30/10 at 1.29.

Lord most definitely is, he just doesn't like to admit it. Wow that's some phenomenal research there, all for your boy Tipuric. Warbs and Tips would actually be best to combat Aus, just not right not with Tips having little game time, etc... If some of those posters did pick him in their starting team they seem to have contradicted themselves somewhere along the way.

Lord supports all the Welsh teams, yet predominately goes to watch the Blues with his father, as for phenomenal research, NAH, I just knew there were a fair few NON Osprey supporters who had selected him, and also that Bedford had after the squad was announced, it is just you do not know who you are up against.

I thought I was up against some dwarf who used to be in the armed forces. I think that's pretty spot on tbh... least of my worries as I'm busy now and will be the next few days. Hope you all enjoy the game!

Well that's one way of saying, I lost that argument, need to move on

No I genuinely do have a great work load this week and won't get some free time until the weekend. I don't think I really engaged in an argument, but you can keep thinking you've won the internet if you like.

My concern in playing a Warburton Faletau Tipuric backrow is that not only do you have a rusty No7 in Tipuric you also have an out of position 7 playing 6.

Whilst I agree Lydiate himself is rusty, though he has played as much if not more than Tipuric this season least he is in his natural position as then is Warburton.

If its not working then I hope Gatland has guts to change it but for me I think its best if we start that way first.

bedfordwelsh wrote:My concern in playing a Warburton Faletau Tipuric backrow is that not only do you have a rusty No7 in Tipuric you also have an out of position 7 playing 6.

Whilst I agree Lydiate himself is rusty, though he has played as much if not more than Tipuric this season least he is in his natural position as then is Warburton.

If its not working then I hope Gatland has guts to change it but for me I think its best if we start that way first.

BW, look I don't think Lydiate will let us down badly on Saturday, to say that both are rusty is partially true, yet when did Lydiate last play and what sort of game did he have, Because Tips played last weekend and the previous although overwhelmed by Northampton you could see the benefit last week as I showed by the stats and the fact he played the whole game, so he is a lot less rusty than Lydiate, it was good to see that Dan's fitness levels are up there, yet there is a massive difference between general fitness and match fitness. Pound to a penny now Dan will be MOTM, sorry to drag you into this, it was only because of the sly dig about Ospreys supporters, why he needs to make these flippant remarks I don't know. The fact you named the same back row as a few other non Ospreys supporters was manna from heaven.

Wayne,

Not a problem and not dragging me into anything its a forum after all but in anwer to your question, Lydiate last played 2 weeks ago, Racing have played 12 games so far this season and Lydiate has started or featured in 6 of them. The Ospreys have played 9 and Tipuric has started or featured in 5 of them so there is nothing in it really.

I know I am a huge Lydiate fan but in this instant I just think it makes more sense (when both are rusty) to have a backrow where all 3 are at least in their correct positions. Rather than as I said one out of position and then one rusty.

For what it's worth I don't think Lydiate will let us down and neither will Tipuric when he makes an appearance and if there had been another genuine specialist 6 in the squad then I would have quite happily seen whoever that may have been start at 6 with Tips at 7.

I also think Lydiate brings more physicality which is obviously the approach we are taking with this selection.

I hope our kicking game is as good as it was v SA in the summer!

We have to kick to regain possession.........

I'm not a fan of moving North to OC. Defence is critical in that position. Look what happened to the Ospreys when they were forced to move a wing (Hassler) to OC against Northampton. Directly responsible for at least two tries due to his positional naivety (sp?). Anyway it worries me......

I can see why Gatland has picked Lydiate, against the Aussies you cannot afford to miss a tackle, and if anything Lydiate is the best tackler in the Welsh squad, and with a 6 and a half foot, 18 stone big baby playing in the center we need all the tacklers we have.

LD,

I am in a bit of a dilemma here as like you I think Norths defence is terrible but he seems above criticism, that said in attack I think he can really cause teams problems from that position so am excitedly worried lol

tatterd wrote:I'm not a fan of moving North to OC. Defence is critical in that position. Look what happened to the Ospreys when they were forced to move a wing (Hassler) to OC against Northampton. Directly responsible for at least two tries due to his positional naivety (sp?). Anyway it worries me......

Not to mention he has Cuthbert outside him, who isn't exactly a good defender himself.

bedfordwelsh wrote:LD,

I am in a bit of a dilemma here as like you I think Norths defence is terrible but he seems above criticism, that said in attack I think he can really cause teams problems from that position so am excitedly worried lol

Yeah, I'm the same as you BW, I cannot wait to see him running at the Aussies, it's when they are running at us that worries me, also, with Jamie Roberts on the inside of him, how much ball will St George get ? Jamie will just run at contact without offloading, George will be living off scraps, I can see it now, an Aussie forward running at him, George just puts his hands on him and gets carried ten yards before he falls to the ground hoping to take the ball carrier with him, by this time, the ball carrier has offloaded to another player and before we know it we are defending our own try line with our lives.

Warburton and Tipuric will play together at some point during the match, so it's not only Ospreys fans who want to see it. Tips and Lydiate are both rusty, but it's my personal (and light-hearted and remember it's just a game) opinion, that Tipuric at his best offers more than Lydiate at his best. Remember that players can still offload the ball whilst being tackled around their ankles.

Lydiate is a great player too, and certainly won't let us down.

Higher_Ground wrote:Warburton and Tipuric will play together at some point during the match, so it's not only Ospreys fans who want to see it. Tips and Lydiate are both rusty, but it's my personal (and light-hearted and remember it's just a game) opinion, that Tipuric at his best offers more than Lydiate at his best. Remember that players can still offload the ball whilst being tackled around their ankles.

Lydiate is a great player too, and certainly won't let us down.

But is Warburton better at 6 than Lydiate for me no. If Tipuric is the best 7 we have then fine pick him but not then try and fit another player into the side just because he's captain and that's not a dig at Sam it happens in all teams once they skipper is named you know he will play other than being ruled out by injury.

Guys, some quick help please.

IS Davies injured? Why is he not at 13?

Between Lydiate, Warburton and TUpuric, who are the best pilferers?

Who else in the Welsh pack are good ground workers?

thanks

Davies is injured, as is Scott Williams,

In terms of breakdown work - Warburton, Tipuric, Lydiate

In terms of link-play Tipuric, Warburton, Lydiate

In terms of defence Lydiate, Warburton, Tipuric

Thanks mate.

Biltong wrote:Guys, some quick help please.

IS Davies injured? Why is he not at 13?

Between Lydiate, Warburton and TUpuric, who are the best pilferers?

Who else in the Welsh pack are good ground workers?

thanks

I think its a close call between Warburton and Tipuric as the best pilferers, Warburton is the stronger player, Tipuric is the more skillful, so you'll see him in link play more often than not, he was outstanding against England in 2013 setting up Cuthberts 2nd try.

Faletau is a good ground worker, he can play at 7 when needed, Alun Wyn Jones is also not too bad, but not his strength. Jenkins is a good pilferer coming off the bench.

New news, all the French based players are now available for the SA game

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-vs-australia-warren-gatland-8062775

IronMike wrote:New news, all the French based players are now available for the SA game

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-vs-australia-warren-gatland-8062775

It was never stated that they wouldn't be...?

maestegmafia wrote:

IronMike wrote:New news, all the French based players are now available for the SA game

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-vs-australia-warren-gatland-8062775

It was never stated that they wouldn't be...?

Well they normally aren't available for the 4th test,

Gatland has worked deals with individual players before, but not all of them,

Probably going to push player into going to France over England at the moment.

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

IronMike wrote:New news, all the French based players are now available for the SA game

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-vs-australia-warren-gatland-8062775

It was never stated that they wouldn't be...?

Well they normally aren't available for the 4th test,

Gatland has worked deals with individual players before, but not all of them,

Probably going to push player into going to France over England at the moment.

That's all good news. If the PRL are going to continue to be a pedantic obstacle then, if players have to go abroad France is the better option all round.

Its good that they are available but with James and Hibbard not available we will have a very in-experienced front row against the Boks.

Form would say Smith to start but that would give you a front row of Smith Baldwin and Lee. So unless injury dictates I imagine Jenkins will start.

Odds on A Jones being added?

there is a concern of mine in picking such a scrummaging focused less mobile front row - if there are few scrums and we play loose they will be exposed in the defensive line like in 2012 where genia spotted Adam Jones in the line and went around him to score a pivitol try

We must kick well! If we just punt balls to them with no pressure it is going to be a long day at the office! We kicked well against SA in the 2nd test, every ball that went up had a welsh player competing for it, it must be the same on Saturday if we are to have any chance - christ even if we dont want to chase lets kick it off the park - at least our D will be set

Quite right, we know with Biggar playing that our kicking game will be top drawer, but as the old cliche goes; a kick is only as good as the chase.

I think we might have a better idea of which team will face Fiji, we'll have an even better idea when we find out who's fit and which of our 10s are coming in. For now I'm just going to throw this out there:
James, Hibbard, Lee, Davies, Charteris, Lydiate, Tipuric, Baker, Webb, Priestland, Amos, Roberts, Allen, Cuthbert, Williams.

Saint,

Lets say that the front row, Lydiate, Webb, Roberts and Cuthbert are considered first choice is he likely to pick them against Fiji and then a week later against the ABs? Or like me do you think the team that plays against the ABs should only be picked from those available to play against the Boks which of course James and Hibbard aren't available for.

I suspect Gatland will try to get some mileage out of those players who are playing outside Wales. So expect: Roberts, Hook, Phillips, James, Hibbard, Bradley, Charteris, JD2 (if fit) to start, also Lydiate who has not played much. Samson Lee was superb on Saturday but is still learning the game so needs a rest. So my side:

Williams (Amos if not fit), Cuthbert, JD2 (Cory if not fit), Roberts, North, Hook (last chance saloon), Phillips, James, Hibbard, Jarvis, Bradley, Charteris, Lydiate, Baker, Warburton (chance to show he is a leader).

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saint,

Lets say that the front row, Lydiate, Webb, Roberts and Cuthbert are considered first choice is he likely to pick them against Fiji and then a week later against the ABs?  Or like me do you think the team that plays against the ABs should only be picked from those available to play against the Boks which of course James and Hibbard aren't available for.

I'd think about starting the England based players against Fiji and dropping them to bench for NZ. I think Lydiate and Cuthbert need more game time. Cuthbert was useless in the first half against Aus. Before you mention it, it's not going to be difficult to run in the try that he did. Hook coming in now changes the half-back pairing, probably Phillips or Williams to start. Roberts is there because I'm unsure of the availability of Scott Williams and Davies. I think Roberts and Williams should be considered first choice midfield atm.

Hopefully JD2 is fit, we missed him yesterday

It seems Warbs is coming in for some criticism. Now I've been saying all year that AWJ would make a fine captain. But only after yesterday are people saying drop Warbs as captain and I can't see what was based on because he lead and played very well.

After all the fuss with the WRU and centrally contracting himself I do think Warburton has become a bit of marmite figure. I thought he had very good game and Saturday and was the most vocal I have seen him.

I do think sometimes to much is made of the captains role and a captains role these days (right or wrong) isn't just about on the pitch, its about the media side of things as well and Sam is very media friendly where as AWJ by his own admission doesn't like that type of thing.

In a post match interview and at the following Press Conference, Gatland said that there would be a number of changes and that "more than likely" all the subs on Saturday would start against Fiji, the only exceptions I can see from that is if Scott Williams and JD2 are fit, I can see Cory Allen missing out and because of Biggar's injury he might not want to risk Priestland, all the other subs, Phillips, Jenkins, Baldwin, Jones, Davies and Tipuric all starting, I also think Lydiate has to start, I would also start Baker and Charteris with the majority of first choice players on the bench.