How to turn around Edinburgh

Whenever a team is in the doldrums we all (myself especially) tend to lament the coaches, players SRU etc etc. But what could practically be done to change the current state of affairs?

Let's assume Solomons et al will be staying, no superstars can be parachuted in and they've got to work with the current squad at our disposal. What could they do now to turn this team around?

From team selection and tactics, to leadership and moral - which changes can be made right now to help turn around their fortunes...or at least make them more competitive.

Despite have the same dosh as Glasgow the squad is pretty rubbish, for starter I think we can all agree that Strauss needs to be dropped. Would Dean be the natural successor?

With Ross Ford still of the can't throw straight, won't throw straight inclination what do we do with him? He is one of the main leaders apparently alongside Strauss. Who should they rally behind. Who is the model player? Gilchrist is a good player and apparently a good lineout caller, but he's so young and doesn't seem to lead the team from what I've seen. I've seen du Preez rallying players, Denton is another.

I think a big win could come from a change in tactics. As a model I would say Exeter's style could be adapted to suit this squad. It's not a million miles away with gritty forwards hitting up before spinning it to the wing. With Tim Visser currently under-utilised this could work well. I don't think we have the skills anymore to play as we did in the HK run sadly.

We are missing Dozer and Scott-12. It's a fact noone can deny.

However Solomons ripped the heart ot of the team by letting guys like NDL and Rennie go. Losing Rennie is a kick in the stones that cannot even remotely be justified. NDL had his critics but his performances for Edinburgh have always been excellent or at worst very solid. What I wouldn't give to have him back in the squad.

What bothers me most is that players who are utter dross for us go to Glasgow and set the heather aflame from 100 paces.

Either there is something astonishing in the water across there although I doubt it since the city is one of the 45....

Or more accurately there is something rotten to the core in Edinburgh.

It's not Solomans fault because we have been Rancid since Andy Robinson left. We have no team ethos, no identity, no guts, pride, passion, flair, skill or anything to be honest.

It's utterly depressing and with our current crop of NSQ journeyman I see no escape.

I honestly believe you could bring a Scottish club select team in and have them play better. Perhaps not as fit or strong but I sincerely believe you would see some pride and ambition.

We are in a sorry state to be sure.

So how to fix it?

I have no Idea. I get the impression a lot of the players feel they are now bigger than the club. There seems to be a whiff of infallibility in some of the guys, like Ford. Who seems more happy to brag about his strength on Facebook than get his lineout throwing sorted.

Glasgow seem to have a superb club ethos a kind of one for all and all for one mentality, exemplified by Hogg's comments in the hootsman about his attitude and how Murchie was the man firmly in possession of the 15 shirt last season.

Hogg is a superb player and I have no doubt some big clubs would have been sniffing about him last season, Ulster was mentioned numerous times. He stayed at Glasgow, that should tell you all you need to know about that team.

How Edinburgh sort this out IMO move stadium ASAP.

I can't help but notice Glasgow's turnaround came very close with their move to scotstoun. Playing in front of a passionate intimate crowd will do wonders for a players mentality. Contrast that to playing in the Cathedral quiet Murrayfield.

I don't really like going to an empty Murryfield when Edinburgh are playing well let alone going when they are playing like a bunch of 10 thumbed men wearing mittens.

I appreciate this is a wooly answer, I just felt I needed to get some of this off my chest. I don't really have a good answer.

What I would like to see in order -

1. Move Stadium, spend some of BT's money if neccesary
2. Get shot of the NSQ journeyman who are playing gash
3. Pick on form
4. Play to our Strengths.

I can't find the article, but I read an interview with Stevie Scott recently saying that they aren't going to be changing the tactics. He says it is the players' poor implementation of the tactics that is the problem, not the gameplan itself.

I'm sure there's an apt saying about workmen and tools that could be used here...

Yes Kennedy isn't implementing all his box kicks very well, but is leathering the crap off the ball really good tactics?

Also, I'm assuming the very passive defence, which lets the opposition get over the gainline so easily, is part of the gameplan?

Players just running straight into people without any kind of creativity - is that not part of the gameplan given we've been doing that since Solomons took over?

I despair.

From a match report on Bristol's recent win over the Cornish Pirates:

"Sparked back into action, Matthew Morgan’s sharp break freed the impressive Ross Rennie midway inside the Pirates’ half. The flanker found Auguy Slowik who finished with aplomb for a converted try"

A forward who can play rugby?! You can see why Solomons wasn't interested!

Radge, my heart goes to you. I really respect the fact that your devotion to your club does not stop you seeing the positives in Glasgow.
"I can't help but notice Glasgow's turnaround came very close with their move to scotstoun. Playing in front of a passionate intimate crowd will do wonders for a players mentality. Contrast that to playing in the Cathedral quiet Murrayfield."
If you look at this in a slightly different way; being tenants at Firhill and also playing up the road at Anniesland (?) must have inculcated a certain chip on the shoulder mentality which often breeds a tighter sense of camaraderie. The move to Scotstoun would have felt like arriving in the promised land, or coming home as some players have said. So you are probably right: a smaller, fillable stadium where they belong (as in they feel is theirs) is the most obvious starting point.
Secondly, St Sean of Lineen spent a long time building a team of awkward barstewards who were very difficult to beat. At the time my criticism was that will work well until you meet very good teams and defending for 60 minutes merely lessens the margin of defeat BUT it does help build pride and self confidence. Here I feel we should reflect on Dan Parks. You can hear him before almost every game, "Give me the ball. I'll put them back in their 22. You stop them on the gain line and if we turn them over I'll kick a goal. Otherwise keep stopping them till we get a penalty." Now that is not a hundred miles from Gattland Ball nor from Solomans' game plan but Edinburgh don't seem able to deliver it. Why not? Well, who are the awkward barstewards in your team?
As for the NSQ players; Glasgow have plenty of them but they all comment on the family atmosphere that seems to extend beyond the training ground into belonging to the wider community. How connected do the players feel in Edinburgh?

In short;
1. Move Stadium, spend some of BT's money if necessary AGREE
2. Get shot of the NSQ journeyman who are playing gash AGREE but choose a core group of players ( Kellock, Morrison, Barclay, Parks types) who believe totally in what you intend to do and who will lead by example on and off the field.
3. Pick on form SEE ABOVE
4. Play to our Strengths. WORK ON CREATING AN IDENTITY WHICH BINDS YOU TO THE PEOPLE OF EDINBURGH AND DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM THE BUFFTIES AT SRU HQ.

Whilst it's obvious edinburgh are not great just now, it is easy to remember SL's last season or two at the Warriors and think Edinburgh should have that.
I just googled to look at SLs second season and glasgow were pumped by Connacht (31-15) and Ospreys (40-17) in the first 5 weeks, finished solidly in the bottom half of the table and, worst of all, lost the 1872.
All this with a team full of such 'fighters' as Kenny Logan, Sam Pinder and Rory Kerr and playing in front of about 2,000 at hughenden. Nothing against any of those players but I think we should be realistic about Glasgow's past performances.

The thing Sean Lineen got was a consistent, although modest level of backing from the SRU and seemingly unending time from Glasgow supporters. He eventually came very very good. Sean Lineen would probably not be able to solve Edinburgh in the next couple of season so we may as well give solomons the chance to. He probably has a better track record that SL anyway.

Having said all that, if I was an Edinburgh supporter, I would be holding a sign saying 'sack the board'

Nah, I quite like this board, at least some of them, some of the English and Welsh on here can be a bit annoying occasionally, other than that all good.

1 Here's the thing, at Murrayfield there isn't much of a change in atmosphere from 3,000 people to 6,000 in a 60,000+ stadium. So even if Edinburgh were the best in the league (and attracting Glasgow's attendance), the atmosphere really wouldn't change much. So I think the SRU needs to move Edinburgh ASAP from Murrayfield.

Also, Murrayfield must be the easiest place for a team to come to. A decent, attacking friendly new pitch inside a large stadium with no atmosphere and sheltered from wind (unlike Galway/Scotstoun).

2 With regard to players, we are seriously limited with Scott, Denton and Fife out. But that shouldn't affect Edinburgh as much as it does. I think with player selection & tactics Edinburgh are playing at ~70% ability. If Connacht can attract Bundee Aki, we should do better than Strauss.

3 The SRU should focus on improving Edinburgh and it's location rather than a 3rd pro team...

4 Vern Cotter can't be that busy... why not make him assistant Edinburgh coach when we aren't in the international window?

5 Give younger players a chance (like Man Utd did recently with that back player (???)). I'd rather watch an Edinburgh with the likes of Farndale/Auld/Dean etc losing than Strauss.

6 Fire Solomons, at least, and the attack coach. I'm not 100% sure if Omar M??? needs fired as Edinburgh have shown glimpses of quite good defence.

Problem with that is that I think, and happy to be proved wrong, is that Omar is also the attack coach.

I think we need to ditch Solomons and most of the coaching team and start playing some rugby again, rather than kicking the ball to the opposition back 3 every time we get possession.

Edit: Anyone know what Nick Scrivener is up to and whether we could tempt him back to the NH?

I got way into a long reply about this and managed to delete it. I can't be bothered to do it all again so will do a brief summary.

Changing grounds and players is really not going to happen in the short term. This is the downside of getting ride of the coach, the new guy will want his own guys and that takes roughly a 2 year cycle. Edinburgh were forced to try an alternative venue last year and it did not exactly get a rousing thumbs up. In all honesty there is no short or even medium term solution to this. They are unlikey to ever get a stand alone suitable rugby venue and so any move is going to be at the mercy of local government and other parties.

Something odd is going on this year in northern hemisphere rugby with some ridiculous one sided scores. It may not be a hugh surprise to see Edinburgh at the wrong end of some of those, but Quins, Leicester, Toulouse and Clermont have also all been thrashed. Some clubs seem to have worked out how to run up a cricket score, others are floundering and it is not always the obvious ones.

If you can't change grounds or players and at this stage in the season it seems to make no sense to change the coaching team then surely you have to try and make the best use of what you have. This is where Edinburgh are failing. They are suffering from the old disease of the Scottish Rugby team where it is harder to get out of the team than to get into it. What message is that giving to the rest of the squad, why bother when you are not going to get a game whatever and why sweat blood when you are going to get picked whatever kind of performance you put in. No one should be undropable. Make the squad a genuine competitive one for team places. That did not happen last year and so far does not seem to be happening this year so far.

One thing I definitely think is wrong though is the idea that it all went wrong when the senior players moved on last year. Rennie is the only one of them that I would have kept and I do believe that he went for his own reasons. Like it or not he had had a terrible time with injury here and then had his own personal issues. You can't blame him for wanting to see if the grass was any greener.

The squad did need to be freshened up, with or without a new coach. Most of those players were at the wrong end of their careers, were relatively expensive and had not really set the heather on fire over the past few years either. Least we forget, the malaise did not start with Solomans and a lot of those players were part of the malaise.

Yes tighten up on the mistakes and make yourselves a hard to beat team. Add to that some accountability, if players are poor drop them and give someone else the chance. Have a look at what other teams are doing, how have Connacht suddenly gone from a stuffy team to one that are playing some quite attractive rugby and are getting decent results. Most of all instill some belief and some consistency. Once that is in place and that was the first step for Glasgow, them suddenly anything is possible!

Jeezo biggee I'd hate to see the long version!

BigGee one of the issues I have with Solomons, apart from the woeful tactics is his refusal to drop players who are not performing and so I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph. However he is known to be as stubborn as an ox, so Strauss and to a lesser extent Coman are going to continue playing however badly. He's loyal, which is generally a good thing, but you also have to know when to say that someone is not up to the task - step forward Strauss.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Jeezo biggee I'd hate to see the long version!

Not quite sure what happened there, that ended up longer than the original! Mind you it would make a good thesis or a book on how to put Edinburgh right!

Even as a Glasgow supporter, I still care!

Alan Solomons does a weekly piece in the Scotsman, and unfortunately this week's article is much of the same as always - highlight we've been hard done by with the ref, and make absolutely no mention of our many other failings:

THE players have put in 
a lot of hard work in preparing for the challenges that the Dragons will present tomorrow afternoon. It is a bit odd to be playing at home on a Saturday. Personally, I enjoy it as it gives us a full training week and harks back to a more traditional era when all matches were played on a Saturday afternoon.

After a performance brimful of character and composure against a good Scarlets team (on the back of the Ospreys loss, coming back from 17-3 down was no mean feat), we did not reach quite the same level against Ulster.

While Ulster clearly had the edge on us, I felt that the 30-0 scoreline was not a fair reflection of the night’s play.



The first half was relatively even, with Ulster scoring the only try from a shanked kick that we failed to secure.

In the second half, there were two critical moments. Firstly, in the 51st minute we were given a five-metre scrum after being held up over their line from a lineout maul. We were blown for a skew feed and they were able to relieve the pressure.

Secondly, in the 60th minute, with the score still at 13-0, our captain, Mike Coman, was yellow-carded for bringing down a maul. In the ten minutes that we were down to 14 men Ulster scored two tries, both from lineouts close to our line, and put the game beyond reach.

The meticulous review undertaken after the match, which involves objective refereeing expertise, makes for a convincing argument that neither the free kick for the skew feed nor the penalty and yellow card were justified. We will follow the normal protocol in giving our feedback.

In fairness, I must say that the officials have been good at putting up their hand where they have made an error.

Before I leave the Ulster game I would like to single out Ross Ford and James Hilterbrand for some praise.

On the Thursday night we departed for Belfast, Ross was unable to accompany us as he had been vomiting all night on the Wednesday. We only have two fit senior hookers so he simply had to play. We fully medicated him and he flew into Belfast on the afternoon of the game.

To complicate matters, James, our replacement hooker, came down with a bug on the Thursday night and spent the night vomiting. Our doctor did a great job in getting 
both of them to be able to play but full marks to them for playing a game that, in truth, neither should have played.

As I indicated earlier, the disappointment of the Ulster game has been put behind us and the return of our Scotland internationals Alasdair Dickinson and Dougie Fife as well as the availability of our vice-
captain Grant Gilchrist (he went off at half-time against Ulster) has buoyed the spirits of the lads.

The Dragons have an experienced front five, led by the 
evergreen Welsh internationalist Ian Gough, and an outstanding loose trio in Nic Cudd, Andy Powell (ex-Wales internationalist) and current Wales No 8 Taulupe Faletau.

In addition they have good young half backs and, all in 
all, they are a well-balanced team.

We know that the Dragons will “bring it” on Saturday and the boys are well aware that we’ll have to meet fire with fire. I’m sure we will.

Now, we have been on the wrong side of the ref in pretty much every game this season, and I do think we have been hard done by in some instances, but this is not the reason we have been so poor and lost these games. For Solomons to complete ignore the limp defence, blunt attack, poor kicking game, bad tackling and individual errors suggests he doesn't think there is much wrong there.

Compare his piece to Gregor Townsend's article praising referees and saying they do a tough job, although granted Glasgow haven't had many dodgy reffing decisions this year!

How to fix Edinburgh Rugby: An eejits guide to simple stuff

1. Drop Strauss. Play Burleigh at 12
2. Tell players to play rugby. If there is space behind the defence, by all means kick it, but if there isn't or if you have an overlap or room to run the ball, then feel free to run or pass.
3. Drop Strauss. Play Burleigh at 12
4. We've got £20m in the bank, a new stadium may be pushing it, but I say for this season, all under 16s get into Edinburgh games for free
5. Drop Strauss. Play Burleigh at 12
6. Stop buying aging or unimpressive south african players who aren't an improvement on Scottish players they are displacing
7. Drop Strauss. Play Burleigh at 12
8. Stop sending players over to Glasgow. In fact, get the SRU to start sending some glasgow players over here (only if they are not playing for glasgow)
9. Drop Strauss. Play Burleigh at 12
10. Get a Pro 12 ref in to speak to the players and explain the new Pro 12 rules of the game such as "re-starts being kicked dead, instead of being a scrum on the half way line like the IRB rules, will now be a 22 drop out" and "Squint put ins to the scrum will be allowed until the 72nd minute of the game when suddenly it will be noticed" and "Throw ins at the lineout can be so squint that your jumper struggles to get it with his outside hand, but only if you your home matches south of Stranraer"

ok, so the last one is a bit cheap, but we could certianly do with working with a ref to reduce the penalty count we have!

I think we all know that picking hurly at 12 won't miraculously turn is into the All Blacks, but it is statement of intent more than anything.

Strauss hasn't been playing well and offers little, and hurly hasn't had much of a chance to play in his best position.

So, Tiger, what do you propose to do about inside centre? Could you sign Kellybrows(6) as emergency cover (and why not since Rab C has tried him everywhere else) or play MattSc... oh no that would be silly.

Maybe going to be controversial, but how about drop Edinburgh and try to recontract the SQ players and start a new team in Aberdeen,
like Italy did with Aroni and Zebre

Not saying its the best solution but maybe it should be considered?

Maybe easier to get/build a suitable stadium?
cuts all the deadwood
Fresh start, and can look at getting quality NSQ players

I know it may be harsh on Edinburgh fans, and you may say that they could struggle for crowds, but are Edinburgh crowds any better than the new team Zebre's?

The situation with Edinburgh reminds me a little of the Scotland scenario. Lots of big sweeping structural changes could be considered, but we aren't even doing basic things that would have an instant impact.

I would stick to some basic principles that to my mind could have an instant impact:

1. Take stock of the players we have at Edinburgh. Group them into their specialist positions, only pick players in those positions, and make a decision as to the style of play that would maxmise the potential of the players available. As an example:

9. SH-C, Kennedy, Hart
10. Tonks, Heathcote, Bezzy
11. Visser, Farndale, Thompson
12. Scott, Burleigh, Strauss
13. Beard, Dean, Dominguez
14. Fife, Hoyland, Thompson
15. Cuthbert, Brown, Bezzy

2. Pick and drop based on form. Ignore reputation, age and experience. The crowd will back a young SQ player to the hilt (e.g. Sutherland) but will not turn out to see Blaauw wheezing his way through 60 minutes. Similarly I would make a special effort to turn up and see Chris Dean play at 13. Conversely the decision to select Strauss at 12 guarantees my absence. This does of course means that if an NSQ player merits selection (e.g. Sam Beard/Cornell Du Preez) then they get picked. Fine with that. It's the NSQ players who are not performing and getting picked week in week out that is killing us.

Two very simple things that are not happening now that could be fixed almost instantly.

Are the MFL's performances any better than Zebre's?

jimbopip wrote:So, Tiger, what do you propose to do about inside centre? Could you sign Kellybrows(6) as emergency cover (and why not since Rab C has tried him everywhere else) or play MattSc...  oh no that would be silly.

I take it you mean outside centre?

In the short term I'd have Beard there. With someone other that Strauss inside him, I'm sure he'd be alot more involved! I'd also consider bringing back Nick Di Knock-on. We've also go Dean and some say that Fife should be getting a run in the centre.

Failing that, when Matt Scott returns I'd be looking at having Scott at 12 with Burleigh possibly going into 13?

I also have other radical ideas such as binning Coman, moving Du Preez back to 6 and getting Ally Hogg back in at 8 to fight it out with Denton.

I'd also look to employ Mossy as a kicking coach but more than anything he could be our version of Al Kellock to be the elder statesman that the youngsters can take advise and guidance from!

All these are completely in the realms of possibility and are far more acheiveable than moving Edinburgh into a new stadium (as good as that would be I just can't see it being an option at the moment)

Only slightly. I think the table is about right. Treviso have been utterly terrible, whereas Zebre and Edinburgh have been merely terrible, with Edinburgh only a fraction less terrible than Zebre.

Zebre vs Edinburgh will be far from a classic!

Looks its really hard, because I think you have some deep lying fundamental problems over there that contribute to why homegrown players must feel very demotivated and the players who do come in from outside don't give a sheizer. And the coaches can do nothing about it so long as they are relying on imports because you will not attract quality imports with these off-field issues that are difficult to address.

The first is the ground issue. It's so depressing. I've been to games at Murrayfield featuring Edinburgh. God awful experience regardless of whats happening on the pitch. I've seen visiting players complain about it. I've seen visiting fans complain about it. I've seen home fans complain about it. I can't imagine the home players like it. Atmosphere can be very important in persuading good players to come- look at what Nicolas Sanchez had to say about Toulon when he was deciding. Thats not uncommon.

Also, Edinburgh just isn't a rugby town. Its so much bigger than that. It's one of the most breathtaking, beautiful cities in the world. A real cultural centre, a place in touch with its history, a home for the arts and home to a truly world class university. It has wonderful restaurants, bars, museums, galleries etc. It is an A-list tourist destination, probably one of the cities you have to visit before you die. Wonderful place. I only lived there for 2 years but I feel like I'm coming home when I go back because it is so seductive as a city. But outside of Scotland games, I feel rugby has no visible presence within the city. Even the rugby clubs, when I lived there, seemed very divorced from the professional game and the public seemed disengaged.

I was in Edinburgh last week, got back to Belfast on Friday night for the game and whats one of the very first things I see when I get off the bus in the city centre- Rory Bests face plastered across a massive billboard advertising something. Not because he's an established Ireland player. It's nothing to do with Ireland, its his status as an Ulster player that makes that happen. And then, the man in the street in Belfast is going to know who he is of course. Its harder to imagine either of those things being true in Edinburgh; an Edinburgh player being used to advertise something or the average person in the city centre knowing who that player is. If you go out around Belfast city you will see people wearing Ulster Rugby tops, gear, merchandise extremely regularly. That buzz feeds into the team. It might also feed into the teams egos, but they feel like there is a city, a province, a community behind them.

Listen I'd much rather live in Edinburgh than Belfast if money wasn't an issue. But thats what you're gonna get, thats the only reason for going to Edinburgh Rugby right now. It's a brilliant city to live in, thats why you move there. And thats probably the same for rugby players. Think about the checklist you might have when looking for a team;

1) Track record of success- no.
2) Financially the best option- no. Other clubs can pay more
3) Opportunity to play in the elite European competition- after the changes to the format, no.
4) Sense and atmosphere at games and training and sense that a community is rallying behind you, buzz on match days etc. No
5) Desirable city to live in for a few years when you're young- yes.

There is a brilliant reason for moving to Edinburgh rugby. But it's not to do with being ambitious, or earning money, or playing good rugby, or growing as a player or being part of something bigger than just a team. It's about getting to live in Edinburgh and appreciating all it has to offer when you get to clock off work. I think you're attracting journeymen who want to live where they live for the lifestyle and not anything to do with rugby. On the other hand, if your a homegrown Scottish player and you've come through the system at Edinburgh, its a bit more tempting to go somewhere where you can make a name for yourself, or experience a community thats mad about rugby, or earn more money.

The big question for me is- did De Luca and Rennie walk because they were fed up at Edinburgh, or where they given a P.F.O?

Excellent post Notch - I'll be adding some thoughts on your points soon

tigertattie wrote:How to fix Edinburgh Rugby: An eejits guide to simple stuff


4. We've got £20m in the bank, a new stadium may be pushing it, but I say for this season, all under 16s and people with ginger hair get into Edinburgh games for free

Kingshu wrote:Maybe going to be controversial, but how about drop Edinburgh and try to recontract the SQ players and start a new team in Aberdeen,
like Italy did with Aroni and Zebre

Not saying its the best solution but maybe it should be considered?

Maybe easier to get/build a suitable stadium?
cuts all the deadwood
Fresh start, and can look at getting quality NSQ players

I know it may be harsh on Edinburgh fans, and you may say that they could struggle for crowds, but are Edinburgh crowds any better than the new team Zebre's?

They could follow the Wasps model. From next season drop the geographical connection from the club name, 'Edinburgh Rugby' will simply become 'Rugby'...
Then suddenly announce a move up North & ground share with AFC at Pittodrie...

GLove39 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Maybe going to be controversial, but how about drop Edinburgh and try to recontract the SQ players and start a new team in Aberdeen,
like Italy did with Aroni and Zebre

Not saying its the best solution but maybe it should be considered?

Maybe easier to get/build a suitable stadium?
cuts all the deadwood
Fresh start, and can look at getting quality NSQ players

I know it may be harsh on Edinburgh fans, and you may say that they could struggle for crowds, but are Edinburgh crowds any better than the new team Zebre's?

They could follow the Wasps model. From next season drop the geographical connection from the club name, 'Edinburgh Rugby' will simply become 'Rugby'...
Then suddenly announce a move up North & ground share with AFC at Pittodrie...

I love the idea of a team thats just called Rugby. You can sit at the game with a pie and just shout "Rugby! Come on Rugby!"

Nice post Notch, but you can't generate any buzz about rugby when your only choice is watching dross in an empty freezing stadium.

Getting Edinburgh out of Murrayfield is priority no.1

Right, here are some thoughts picking up on Notch's excellent post.  To me, there are some things the just can't be changed any time soon:

- Playing games at Murrayfield

I used to defend Edinburgh games at Murrayfield, but that was when we had decent attendances for HK games and the like.  Other than the HK QF against Toulouse (38k people - the best rugby atmosphere I've ever been at in Scotland), the best atmosphere at an Edinburgh game was against London Irish in the same HK run. There were just under 11k in Murrayfield, and we had to get a BP win to come top of our group and qualify for the quarter finals.  We had a great start, played some barnstorming rugby, and the atmosphere inside the stadium was great - the noise when we scored the crucial 4th try especially. The entire pitch-side standing was jam packed and both the top and bottom tiers of the east stand were near full.

My point being - Murrayfield can give a decent atmosphere for Edinburgh games if the crowd is big enough and there is decent action on the pitch. On the other hand, Murrayfield could be full but if Edinburgh play like they currently are, it would be like a morgue (something we've experienced many times with Scotland).

The problem with 3-4k in a stadium is that when we are playing poorly there is literally no atmosphere.  Again if we were playing well it would maybe be just about acceptable, although well short of the experience at any other ground.

There really isn't anything we can do in the short term though. The club grounds are either too small or needing a lot of work done to get them p to standard, not to mention the complications of private schools needing their own pitches for their own use.  There were high hopes for Meggetland but it was a bit of a let-down, plus the fact that it could only hold 3.5k at a push.  In terms of suitable existing venues, there are none - Tyncastle and Easter Road pitches are too small, plus you'd have to pay football teams for their use, and Meadhowbank is about to collapse, and is in the wrong part of town for the average Edinburgh supporter too.

I sincerely wish the SRU had jumped on the Edinburgh Accies development at Raeburn place - they are erecting two stands, maybe it could have been 4 with SRU help - but given there was so much local opposition to the proposed development as it stands, I'd be surprised if the SRU would have got the go-ahead for something bigger.

A 5k stadium in Stockbridge would have been absolutely ideal (and not just for FES!).

So for me that means the only option is to build something new.  £20 million from BT is great, but I don't think it is enough to realistically be able to afford to build a stadium. We could, but it would probably mean that we wouldn't pay off our debt, wouldn't be able to invest in the 4 academies, and wouldn't be able to increase the professional budget. I think those things are probably more important.

Give it a few years though and if the SRU have paid off their debts we might be in a better position to look at a new stadium.

- Changing the coaching team

Been discussed a lot already, but unless things go drastically wrong this season I can't see Solomons being kicked out before the season is up. And even if he is, who replaces him? Lineen has been mentioned, is he the right man? If we change our coaching team it probably limits our possibilities in the transfer market too before next season.


- Bringing in new players of a higher quality than the current bunch

As Notch has said, the only thing appealing about Edinburgh just now is the City - and that is probably only going to attract journeymen foreigners than any real good quality.  I'm amazed we got Hurly and Bresler, but can't see them telling their pals back home how good an experience they've been having at Edinburgh.

So basically, we're stuck with what we've got, and need to make the most of what we got.

It has already been said, but that means:

- Play players in their own positions

- Give youngsters more of a change

- Drop Strauss

That is all!

A quick answer to one of Notch's points. Edinburgh is most definitely a rugby city. You must have missed Ferry Road on a Saturday afternoon when you lived here. Take a look at Google maps and you'll see just how rugby oriented it is. Most of the pitches you see are not for football. If you can see a cricket square, the adjacent pitch will be a rugby one. I went to Trinity and it was a state schools with no football team purely so it could concentrate on rugby.

It just doesn't have much of a taste for professional rugby, same as the Borders. Which is probably the only area in Scotland that can remotely compare to it as far as rugby playing numbers are concerned.

Regarding Murrayfield, I really don't mind it since we moved back to the east stand. A small way to improve it would be to allow non reserved ticket holders to sit in the middle.

I'd also propose changing our "theme tune" to Capricorn 20Hz. I genuinely can't see how anyone gets a lift from running out to Sandstorm.

des wrote:A quick answer to one of Notch's points.  Edinburgh is most definitely a rugby city.  You must have missed Ferry Road on a Saturday afternoon when you lived here.  Take a look at Google maps and you'll see just how rugby oriented it is.  Most of the pitches you see are not for football.  If you can see a cricket square, the adjacent pitch will be a rugby one. I went to Trinity and it was a state schools with no football team purely so it could concentrate on rugby.  

It just doesn't have much of a taste for professional rugby, same as the Borders.  Which is probably the only area in Scotland that can remotely compare to it as far as rugby playing numbers are concerned.

I think we are agreeing to be honest. I know there's a very strong grassroots rugby culture. But there's no rugby culture of supporters for the professional game. The pro team- Edinburgh- are not well regarded within the city. Look at football in the USA- there's a very strong grassroots culture of participation in football (soccer) that doesn't translate to support for the professional game. Thats what I mean when I say the rugby clubs and the professional team feel very distant.

I probably chose the wrong words to describe it. The archetypal rugby town for me is Limerick. They are both massively proud of their home team, Munster, and they have a participatory grassroots rugby culture. You go to Limerick on the day of a big match and there's Munster flags everywhere, they even dye the water in the fountains red. It's insane. There's no real pride in Edinburgh about having a professional rugby team. If anything, Hearts and Hibs dominate the sports pages in that city and Edinburgh is the poor relation.

It feels like a football town, not a rugby town.

Yes there are a lot of rugby clubs in Edinburgh, but I reckon if you count the number of players, coaches, admin staff and supporters of clubs in Prem 1 and Prem 2 week in week out it probably won't be much more than 1500 people. Attendances at these games aren't great.

So as much as there is lots of rugby going on in Edinburgh, it does not translate to a big fan base for supporting a professional team IMO.

tigertattie wrote:

jimbopip wrote:So, Tiger, what do you propose to do about inside centre? Could you sign Kellybrows(6) as emergency cover (and why not since Rab C has tried him everywhere else) or play MattSc...  oh no that would be silly.

I take it you mean outside centre?

Sorry Tiger, I was being facetious I was playing on the fact that you would play Hurley at 12, at 12, at 12.
I forgot that at times of heightened emotional stress ( divorce, bereavement, redundancy, supporting the MFL) one's sense of humour tends to desert one.

Notch wrote:

des wrote:A quick answer to one of Notch's points.  Edinburgh is most definitely a rugby city.  You must have missed Ferry Road on a Saturday afternoon when you lived here.  Take a look at Google maps and you'll see just how rugby oriented it is.  Most of the pitches you see are not for football.  If you can see a cricket square, the adjacent pitch will be a rugby one. I went to Trinity and it was a state schools with no football team purely so it could concentrate on rugby.  

It just doesn't have much of a taste for professional rugby, same as the Borders.  Which is probably the only area in Scotland that can remotely compare to it as far as rugby playing numbers are concerned.

I think we are agreeing to be honest. I know there's a very strong grassroots rugby culture. But there's no rugby culture of supporters for the professional game. The pro team- Edinburgh- are not well regarded within the city. Look at football in the USA- there's a very strong grassroots culture of participation in football (soccer) that doesn't translate to support for the professional game. Thats what I mean when I say the rugby clubs and the professional team feel very distant.

I probably chose the wrong words to describe it. The archetypal rugby town for me is Limerick. They are both massively proud of their home team, Munster, and they have a participatory grassroots rugby culture. You go to Limerick on the day of a big match and there's Munster flags everywhere, they even dye the water in the fountains red. It's insane. There's no real pride in Edinburgh about having a professional rugby team. If anything, Hearts and Hibs dominate the sports pages in that city and Edinburgh is the poor relation.

It feels like a football town, not a rugby town.

Whilst this is true, Glasgow shows that this is not necessarily a barrier to the club doing well.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Excellent post Notch - I'll be adding some thoughts on your points soon

Ditto. By the way you could live in Edinburgh and play for Glasgow!!!! No, you really couldn't. It's only 40 minutes on the train but light years away in reality.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Yes there are a lot of rugby clubs in Edinburgh, but I reckon if you count the number of players, coaches, admin staff and supporters of clubs in Prem 1 and Prem 2 week in week out it probably won't be much more than 1500 people.  Attendances at these games aren't great.

So as much as there is lots of rugby going on in Edinburgh, it does not translate to a big fan base for supporting a professional team IMO.

Completely. I think I miss interpreted Notch's post and we're probably all agreeing.

I was seriously considering just watching club rugby this year but it interferes too much with family life at the moment.  

Having said that, I'm taking my eldest daughter (3 and a half) to the game tomorrow.  I think she'll like it and she'll also see that it's not just her that I shout at.

Weegie Wizard wrote:

Notch wrote:It feels like a football town, not a rugby town.

Whilst this is true, Glasgow shows that this is not necessarily a barrier to the club doing well.

Very true! And Connacht, who have a truly minuscule club base, are building really well on the West Coast of Ireland. So there are examples of clubs who have similar impediments doing well.

jimbopip wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

jimbopip wrote:So, Tiger, what do you propose to do about inside centre? Could you sign Kellybrows(6) as emergency cover (and why not since Rab C has tried him everywhere else) or play MattSc...  oh no that would be silly.

I take it you mean outside centre?

Sorry Tiger, I was being facetious I was playing on the fact that you would play Hurley at 12, at 12, at 12.
I forgot that at times of heightened emotional stress ( divorce, bereavement, redundancy, supporting the MFL) one's sense of humour tends to desert one.

oi, don't you go using your fancy words on me at this time on a friday!