Ewen McKenzie resigns

Just thought I'd create a separate thread.

Australian sites like Green & Gold and The Roar are going into meltdown.

Some points I've seen:

- Resignation effective immediately. New coach(es) for the EOYT

- McKenzie resigned before today's match. The players did not know

- ARU boss Pulver has blamed the media and Australia public. Matt Rowley of Geen and Gold immediately tweeted "Bill Pulver just managed to blame the one party in all of this who were clearly 100% blameless - the public"

- Lots of criticism of the NSW media making Link's life intolerable with hints about his family life.

- Some seem to think that McKenzie must have a few things to hide, and might have jumped before he was pushed. No-one has any evidence for that view. Others are convinced he has nothing to hide, and the rumour-mongering has been part of the problem.

- Some blame the players for seeming to back Beale against McKenzie

- Pulver's comment about wanting to find a coach more in tune with the players sounds intriguing.

Expectations way too high in Oz.


They gotten rid of McKenzie and Deans so I pity the next coach. McKenzie and Deans are 2 of the best coaches around.

Australia will be fine, the criminal cousins are true battlers, the Wallabies could just about get away with not even having a coach, just look at how their team played last night then think how much "coaching" Ewen would have done throughout the last week?

Every game the Wallabies play we see outstanding backline play, I just cant imagine their limits if someone like Larkham was involved in running the backs.

I don't know much about Cheika. But what I gather, is that he can be a bit fiery. He did well at the Tahs and had it mostly go his way. What will happen if he becomes the wallabies coach and things don't go as smoothly, will there be another implosion of the explosion type? Will his personality make for a good international coach?

Sorry but can anyone explain to me what's really going on and why he resigned? It seems like an amazingly extreme reaction to a wave of negative media about a player and a now ex-member of his coaching team. Or is this really about his success/ lack of as coach?

I read that Beale was cruel to Di, who resigned. Now the coach resigns because of media harassment? Surely this would blow over in a few weeks. I mean how obnoxious were they being? If he'd waited it out life would have gone back to questions about the team etc. I don't get it.

Firstly for the Media to imply firstly the Female Representitive got the job because she
was sleeping with the Boss.Then to continue to imply there was a sexual relationship
with Ewen mc Kenzie without substantiation is scandalous for a start.

For the ARU not to back there Manager publicly was also scandalous,then for the players
to say there backing Beale .Made his continuation in the job impossible all year the media
have been having a go at him.

What next,McKenzie should take out law suits of Libel/Defamation of character against
media concerned.Potson law suits ditto plus Sexual Harassment against Beale.

Beale deserves to be dropped from a great height, but it will be a slap on the wrist
and high ho for the AI`s.

Jake White has signed with Tonga, but the contract probably will be broken for Aus
par for the course.Or Cheika who`s been called for ever since McKenzie was appointed
by the media.

yeah i feel a law suit coming on. Paston and Ewan should get anything that walks under the ARU banner.

From the outside it looks like the Australians need someone to keep them in line. People might say that should be the coaches responsibility but coaches can only do so much. There should be a manager of the team and a head coach. So the manger can deal with all the nonsense and keep players in line while the head coach can get on with performance.

What was most telling about McKenzie's lack of control of the players was during the week they came out in support of Beale.

As for Cheika, he might be a better man manager than McKenzie. He is certainly well respected but I'd say he might also rub people up the wrong way and is a bit of a gamble. He transformed Leinster from a team that always underperformed to a harder team with more belief and a much better attitude. He laid the foundations for when Joe Schmidt came. Schmidt however made a big difference in terms of performance.

Situation for Australia as I see it.
1. Currently no coach.
2. Team leaves for the NH on Friday,
3. Rumour has it back up coach (Chieka) turned down the position last week.
4. Jake White could be an option but may be contracted to Tonga. Also may have issues relating to the manner of his exit from super 15.
5. Larken may be a surprise choice.

3. McKenzie resigned last week then? Or was it a push?

ebop wrote:3. McKenzie resigned last week then? Or was it a push?

Neither. I was listening to Tony Veitch on Radio Sports in NZ and there was talk that Cheika had been sounded out last week, but said no thanks. A rumour for sure, but Veitch is usually reasonably reliable when it comes to sporting rumours.

Ah ok, yeah Veitch can provide some useful info, I often reference him. Reading the SMH it looks like there's a clamour for Cheika to step in. If Link hasn't resigned during the week then Cheika is hardly gonna say yeah I want his job. That's counting chickens ain't it. He's gotta take it, for his country that's in a desperate situation. Why wouldn't he? To be the Tahs coach? Nup, not buying it.

ebop wrote:Ah ok, yeah Veitch can provide some useful info, I often reference him. Reading the SMH it looks like there's a clamour for Cheika to step in. If Link hasn't resigned during the week then Cheika is hardly gonna say yeah I want his job. That's counting chickens ain't it. He's gotta take it, for his country that's in a desperate situation. Why wouldn't he? To be the Tahs coach? Nup, not buying it.

tahs in W's jerseys... nah won't work. It'll become divisive...though that is the status quo anyway. ...I hear there's one new AB in the tour team named tomorrow and who on earth of Cruden, DC, Barrett and Slade won't tour? They all can't go surely?

emack2 wrote:Firstly for the Media to imply firstly the Female Representitive got the job because she
was sleeping with the Boss.Then to continue to imply there was a sexual relationship
with Ewen mc Kenzie without substantiation is scandalous for a start.

For the ARU not to back there Manager publicly was also scandalous,then for the players
to say there backing Beale .Made his continuation in the job impossible all year the media
have been having a go at him.

What next,McKenzie should take out law suits of Libel/Defamation of character against
media concerned.Potson law suits ditto plus Sexual Harassment against Beale.

Beale deserves to be dropped from a great height, but it will be a slap on the wrist
and high ho for the AI`s.

Jake White has signed with Tonga, but the contract probably will be broken for Aus
par for the course.Or Cheika who`s been called for ever since McKenzie was appointed
by the media.

Thanks for explaining the full situation for me Emack. The Irish media condensed it into what I wrote with no even hint of accusations of a sexual relationship. That itself is odd. Unless repeating what dodgy media people say can also leave journalists open to law suits.

What I'm taking from this situation is that there is a really awful culture either in rugby circles, or sporting circles or just in Australia in general that tolerates bullying. The ARU should of course have spoken out in the coaches defense. The players should never have stood beside their dodgy colleague and the media should not have reveled in mud slinging. this is an awful lot of men behaving in an appalling way. Now two people are unemployed, the gobshite who started it all is going on tour and for no good reason.

Green and Gold held an "emergency podcast" to discuss the resignation. It's nearly an hour long, but it covers most of the ground if anyone feels the need to get up to speed.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/emergency-podcast-link-broken/

Looks like Michael Cheika will be taking the job and will also be coaching the Tahs as well in 2015.  After the disgraceful way Robbie Deans was treated the chances of a foreign coach (ie. Jake White) being appointed were slim. He would've been hounded from Day 1 with accusations of Jakeball.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/michael-cheika-reportedly-agrees-to-coach-wallabies-20141020-118spx.html

Icu wrote:Looks like Michael Cheika will be taking the job and will also be coaching the Tahs as well in 2015.  After the disgraceful way Robbie Deans was treated the chances of a foreign coach (ie. Jake White) being appointed were slim. He would've been hounded from Day 1 with accusations of Jakeball.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/michael-cheika-reportedly-agrees-to-coach-wallabies-20141020-118spx.html

Saw that as well. I guess he's now in the drivers seat. I'm hoping for his sake he gets to dictate some terms.

Cheika is just what Australian rugby needs. He is very professional and organised and puts good structures in place. Id imagine he will be the right antidote for Oz's bone head problem too as he doesnt have any time for fools.

Its no surprise that a team like NSW with a history of limping out of the latter stages of the super rugby tournament finally came good under him. It is also no surprise that he has been appointed Oz coach.

Just occurred to me we'll have to wait longer now for a former World Cup-winning player to become a World Cup-winning coach. Martin Johnson couldn't manage it and now Link has gone before getting a run in the tournament.

Which players are currently coaching? I can think of John Kirwan but start to come up short after that. Jason Robinson, and Neil Back have all got some experience, while Wilkinson is doing something at Toulon, but none have a major top job. Mike Catt is with England, but not as head coach.

Brendan Venter might turn up in a senior role some time but he isn't currently in the frame. Stephen Larkham has his supporters, and may feature at national level before long. Andrew Blades is (was?) the Wallaby forwards coach, while Michael Foley is also coaching.

Anyone else around to do the double?

Never mind the double, Cheika can become the first coach to win the Hcup, Super rugby and then the WC. His CV is already pretty decent for a guy who was coaching Randwick 10 years ago.

Wait for Brad Thorn to go into coaching....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wait for Brad Thorn to go into coaching....

League or Union?

I don't think Cheika can win the rugby world cup with AUS.

They're simply not good enough up front 1-5.

Club rugby is fine, you can buy your success so to speak. Test rugby you are limited. Can he give them success, yes, can he build them into a world cup winning side... not a chance in my book. Not without some real unearthing of front row talent.

Yes...it could be either...

It will be interesting to see if the most decorated guy in rugby history (i think he is but maybe wrong) could take to coaching?

They're simply not good enough up front 1-5.

And why is that FA?
Do they just not have good forward coaches? Is there just not good enough players for that position?

Are they all more concerned with being fast running backs or predominantly league players?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

They're simply not good enough up front 1-5.

And why is that FA?
Do they just not have good forward coaches? Is there just not good enough players for that position?

Are they all more concerned with being fast running backs or predominantly league players?

Simply its the players.... you can't coach players to being world class.... in the end they need some talent too.

For whatever reason (probably a mixture of lack of players, most top class players going to other sports first, type of rugby preferred in AUS etc etc etc).

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yes...it could be either...

It will be interesting to see if the most decorated guy in rugby history (i think he is but maybe wrong) could take to coaching?

Who is the most decorated man in rugby? Are people suggesting thorn?

It was just a guess Fa...he's won pretty much everything. I couldnt think of anyone who has more?

GeordieFalcon wrote:It was just a guess Fa...he's won pretty much everything. I couldnt think of anyone who has more?

What has he won?

From a look of it in union

3 3N/RC titles
1 SR title
1 HC title
1 RWC

Added to 4 SL/NRL titles in rugby league. Dual code national too.

All in all quite impressive.

a few contenders

Richie McCaw

1 RWC title,
9 3N/RC titles
4 SR titles
1 Lions series
2 IRB player of the year awards
Most capped NZ
Most times captain for NZ
Most tries by a forward in test rugby.

That's quite a record.

Then you have Timmy Horan, John Eales and Os Du Randt who started and won the RWC final twice.

In England it would probably be Laurence Dallaglio no

1 RWC title, 1 RWC RU
1 RWC 7s title
2 HC titles
1 Lions series
4 6N titles.

Martin Johnson

1 RWC title
5 Premiership titles
2 HC titles
5 6N Titles (2 Grand Slams)
3 Lions tours (1 winning)

The less said about being a manager the better..

nathan wrote:Martin Johnson

1 RWC title
5 Premiership titles
2 HC titles
5 6N Titles (2 Grand Slams)
3 Lions tours (1 winning)

The more said about being a manager the less..

I think Dallaglio would beat him on a stats point of view given he won the 7s title and played in the 2007 final too.... but stats are stats. One of the most decorated Olympians of all time is an American female swimming with 10 gold medals to her name.... none in individual categories, all relays.

Team sports often cloud that.

Some interesting stats there...

nathan wrote:Martin Johnson

1 RWC title
5 Premiership titles
2 HC titles
5 6N Titles (2 Grand Slams)
3 Lions tours (1 winning)

The less said about being a manager the better..

He won the 6N as manager, so that has to be worth something?

Bathman_in_London wrote:

nathan wrote:Martin Johnson

1 RWC title
5 Premiership titles
2 HC titles
5 6N Titles (2 Grand Slams)
3 Lions tours (1 winning)

The less said about being a manager the better..

He won the 6N as manager, so that has to be worth something?

true, i'm probably being a little harsh on him as a manager. He does get a bad rep when he doesn't deserve it, like when people moan that he didn't bring youth through yet he brought Dan Cole, Alex Corbisiero, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Chris Ashton, Ben Foden and Manu Tuilagi in.

Absolutely. That year they also won the grand slam, actuallly no they didnt. Stuffed by Ireland. Hahahaha.

In all fairness he probably shouldnt have been selected as England manager given that he had palyed with a lot of the team himself so had preconceived notions and biases when really the whole set up needed a complete clean out. Think another country would have been better for him to cut his teeth with.

GunsGerms wrote:Absolutely. That year they also won the grand slam, actuallly no they didnt. Stuffed by Ireland. Hahahaha.

Was that payback for giving your president muddy heels?

Oh yes any excuse.

Never had a soft spot for Johnson as a player and that's probably why I can feel it easy to say he was shafted as a coach, both in terms of the treatment he got because adult players themselves made eejits of themselves (which was again nothing big dealish in the scheme of players making fools of themselves - melodramaticised way out of proportion by the media) and in disparaging his abilities as a coach.

The England team was well on the way under him but, again, impatience got to the paper and words men in the media, who like to think you can build the Great Wall of China in one night after a few energetic beers.

GunsGerms wrote:Oh yes any excuse.

You can insult us on the rugby pitch fine... but don't mess with our glorious' leaders jimmy choo's right!!!

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Oh yes any excuse.

You can insult us on the rugby pitch fine... but don't mess with our glorious' leaders jimmy choo's right!!!

...as the Queen said to Ronan O'Gara when he did a 'Martin Johnson' on her for old time's sake

Glorious leader? Is not North Korea Fa.

However, it was a masterstroke and I just wish the Irish had though to do it to England in Twickers. The wax jackets would have choked on their pimms soaked cuecumbers or whatever they eat/drink over there.

GunsGerms wrote:Glorious leader? Is not North Korea Fa.

However, it was a masterstroke and I just wish the Irish had though to do it to England in Twickers. The wax jackets would have choked on their pimms soaked cuecumbers or whatever they eat/drink over there.

haha, Thats like me saying all the irish have ginger hair and wear little green suits

Most Irish guys have ginger in their beards at least so you wouldnt be too far wrong. Not sure I could pull off a green suit but I have a green tweed blazer.

nathan wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Glorious leader? Is not North Korea Fa.

However, it was a masterstroke and I just wish the Irish had though to do it to England in Twickers. The wax jackets would have choked on their pimms soaked cuecumbers or whatever they eat/drink over there.

haha, Thats like me saying all the irish have ginger hair and wear little green suits

They do. We only pretend to be dark haired, bown eyed Pierce Brosnan types when it suits us - Leprechauns are shape shifters.

would say one thing about decorated players mind...

only a handful of players have series wins in both SA and NZ. JPR, Edwards, McBride, Davies, Slattery and McLauchlan.

Probably the greatest achievement in history of NH rugby at least. Slightly unfair given SA & NZ can't compete in this record.