Congratulations Leinster

I had high hopes for a Wasps win after that first half but credit to Leinster. They pressured Wasps in that second half. I was disappointed with Simpson's box kicking; it has cost us in the past, and did so again tonight.

You only need to give teams like Leinster a sniff and they'll take it, which they did.

Obviously I was hoping Wasps could kick on from the first half. But Leinster nilled us in the second half and ratcheted up the pressure.

Well done Leinster - a deserved win when all's said and done. A losing bp for us at the RDS is possibly a bonus.

The pool is wide open.

Well done to both teams for an enjoyable game.

A lot of English fans I speak to says Wasps problems are that they never seem to maintain it for the full 80. I can see some merit in that based on this performance.

As for Leinster - I've been saying they look average and I still think they do. Around the 50 minute mark Wasps had made 10 offloads and Leinster 0. That really is unfathomable given the way Leinster used to play under Schmidt. O'Connor has been a massive step back for them and how the bookies have this Leinster team (or had before this performance) as second favourites for the whole competition after Toulon, is simply beyond me.

In the two seasons O'Connor has been there (this season and last) I have seen one Schmidt era calibre performance - away to Saints in last seasons HC.

Sexton in and O'Connor out is what this Leinster squad need.

On a side note, I really like Christian Wade on the wing for Wasps, his acceleration coupled with the low centre of gravity and stepping ability is Jason Robinson or Shane Williams esque. International option for England perhaps?

I think Wade has been on England's radar for a while but has had injury problems

I agree with Artful Dodger. Leinster are not looking that impressive so far this year. But, their international players are a bit rusty, just back in the side, and they are expecting a few exceptional players to come back. But as for tactics, that is more of a worry. There was some dumb kicking, especially in the last five minutes when they needed to keep possession, and some lack of intelligent kicking. Why so few kicks for territory? There was some really sloppy passing from Leinster, loads of loose ball in this game too. If wasps can keep up their style of play for longer they'll certainly beat them in the return fixture. A lot of Wasps players looked better than the opposition.

Relief is the word.

Wasps came and did what they promised they'd do and that was to put the boot into a team that a certain Wasps player didn't even know any players on.  And he was right, even I had trouble naming many of them!

But you might say Leinster finally controlled the second half with the wind more on their side and yet Wasps were a side that had the ammo at any time to work themselves into space and use it to their advantage. So for me, it was far too close to the bone at home from Leinster.  And I have to say again, O'Connor doesn't seem to have much in the way of anything creatively elusive - certainly not showing anything yet - that is going to surprise or unduly pressure the top sides operating this year.

Having said that though, Toulon looked like they phoned in their performance too so I still think a degree of holding cards close to the chest is still in operation.  I certainly hope so because tonight isn't close to good enough to get too far.

I think that this was the big game for Leinster and they will improve. Given the pool they have I believe they should now have no issues topping the table. Also good to note that only three of the players who started the HC final in 2012 started tonight so there has been a big change in personnel.

Also interesting to note that Jaime seems to have realised that leading from the front is what is expected of him and not rely on others all the time.

ME-109 wrote:
Also interesting to note that Jaime seems to have realised that leading from the front is what is expected of him and not rely on others all the time.

Jamie was kinda forced into that role somewhat given the number of his front runner buddies (leaders) who were out (or recently retired).  He has more on his shoulders than Captaincy now.

complete lack of intensity in the first half. Would really worry about going away to France or England. Lots of aimless kicking again.

Missing lots of players though. Anyone know how long Ross and kearney are out for?

Golden wrote:complete lack of intensity in the first half. Would really worry about going away to France or England. Lots of aimless kicking again.

Missing lots of players though. Anyone know how long Ross and kearney are out for?

This could be the closest of all pools then as Quins and Castre both lacked intensity and execution too.

All teams seem capable of being slack enough to lose games they should win on this first weekends evidence.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:
Also interesting to note that Jaime seems to have realised that leading from the front is what is expected of him and not rely on others all the time.

Jamie was kinda forced into that role somewhat given the number of his front runner buddies (leaders) who were out (or recently retired).  He has more on his shoulders than Captaincy now.

He watch CJ yesterday

I agree with Artful, and other Wasps fans - we're not putting in 80 minute performances.

I think only Haskell and Simpson had played at this level for Wasps. Others have for different teams, so I'm hopeful we'll learn and improve as the pool progresses.

He's a wise party-animal sure enough, Sin. He'll use any trick in the book even if it means copying a South African Turnip-cruncher from Limerick. Beggars can't be choosey

Yes close game and deserved win for Leinster. We really missed the 'Hask' today though. No excuses as Leinster are missing more.
Still think the group is wide open.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:
Also interesting to note that Jaime seems to have realised that leading from the front is what is expected of him and not rely on others all the time.

Jamie was kinda forced into that role somewhat given the number of his front runner buddies (leaders) who were out (or recently retired).  He has more on his shoulders than Captaincy now.

He watch CJ yesterday

Still...best game I have seen him play for Leinster in about 3 years.

Heaslip stepped up and replaced SOB and Healy's carrying and also stepped in for the retired Jennings at the breakdown. He did put in a good shift.

Wade has some gas, even as a Leinsterman I applauded that try for sheer natural ability and ridiculous pace.

Leinster always are sluggish in their first pool game. I vaguely remember a draw to london Irish (or was it Quins) in the first pool game a few seasons back in that other european competition.

Frustrating thing about Leinster is that I can see they still have the ability, just not the focus or intensity. I'd prefer to see an average talented player put in 100% effort (say Fanning) than a slightly more talented player (McCarthy, Gopperth) put in a 60% effort performance.

If we have 5 points out of these opening 2 rounds with our injury list then I think we will be well placed. We need some bodies back in order to deal with Quins in December.

Don't like that ref. He sucks the life out of a game and quite often finds himself standing either (a) in between the scrumhalf and first receiver or (b) between the first receiver and nearest defender. I don't think he had an impact on the winning of the game but definitely the pace, momentum and entertainment. He ref/line assistants didn't seem to 'assist' him at all but not sure if that was the linemen being reserved or the some instructions before the game from the ref to them.

Pity Haskell was sick had to pull out.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Pity Haskell was sick had to pull out.

Yeah, it was. He's really grown as a player (and leader) in recent months. It was a real chance for him to put down a big marker for an England starting slot.

The Wasps back row with him, Johnson and Hughes are a serious unit!

It was Irish and it was a win for them not a draw. I think you won it that you didn't you?

Just want to throw something out on a Leinster thread. Gopperth and Madigan. During the game they alternated as first receiver when in possession and would also set up the back line with one either side of the breakdown in midfield so you had effectively two outhalf options and kicking options any time the breakdown was in the centre third of the park. What were peoples thoughts on this? Madigan was also the penalty kicker, kicked most of the touches on penalties and did half the restarts. Is it something that can only work at Leinster, or is the outhalf in the inside centre position something that might be an option to Schmidt?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Just want to throw something out on a Leinster thread.  Gopperth and Madigan.  During the game they alternated as first receiver when in possession and would also set up the back line with one either side of the breakdown in midfield so you had effectively two outhalf options and kicking options any time the breakdown was in the centre third of the park.  What were peoples thoughts on this? Madigan was also the penalty kicker, kicked most of the touches on penalties and did half the restarts. Is it something that can only work at Leinster, or is the outhalf in the inside centre position something that might be an option to Schmidt?

You might pleasantly think that such ideas and experiments are more Schmidt's ideas than O'Connor's anyway. Whatever O'Connor might protest about being sole boss, the IRFU own his team and their ambitions stretch beyond Leinster. And certainly too with Schmidt's more power on himself demands when he started out and with Nucifora's arrival, I can see meddling fingers operating perhaps through all Provinces now as those two guys conspire to bring the best bang for buck to Irish Rugby Inc.

To be fair, Leicester often operated in the same way during O'Connors time as backs coach. Geordan Murphy was used a lot at first receiver together with Flood on either side of the ruck.

Hmmm.................... don't remind me where O'Connor came from please. I still hear the yawn of apathy from their fans when they heard the news that he was going.

He needs more than that double-up trick of his then if he's going to surprise too many of the European big guns down the line.

Are you complaining Fly? MOC is an antipodean so clearly fits in with your view on indigenous coaching etc.

I know.  That's what annoys me...he f**king confabulates with my fail-safe theory on Gum trees, red back spiders, clogged outback dunnies and a genuine raw as f**k Antipodean accent screaming for an antidote with nobody around to inject that arse.

That's what gets to me, DOD... O'Connor kills the dream of the leather arsed Antipodean genius who gets things done.

I think personally he's Irishified himself too much with that name of his... that's the weakness. It's in his bloody genes

SecretFly wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Just want to throw something out on a Leinster thread.  Gopperth and Madigan.  During the game they alternated as first receiver when in possession and would also set up the back line with one either side of the breakdown in midfield so you had effectively two outhalf options and kicking options any time the breakdown was in the centre third of the park.  What were peoples thoughts on this? Madigan was also the penalty kicker, kicked most of the touches on penalties and did half the restarts. Is it something that can only work at Leinster, or is the outhalf in the inside centre position something that might be an option to Schmidt?

You might pleasantly think that such ideas and experiments are more Schmidt's ideas than O'Connor's anyway.  Whatever O'Connor might protest about being sole boss, the IRFU own his team and their ambitions stretch beyond Leinster.  And certainly too with Schmidt's more power on himself demands when he started out and with Nucifora's arrival, I can see meddling fingers operating perhaps through all Provinces now as those two guys conspire to bring the best bang for buck to Irish Rugby Inc.  

That meddling will be fine if it brings results. It could hasten a departure should things not go great (or be deemed to not go great) at Test level.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Just want to throw something out on a Leinster thread.  Gopperth and Madigan.  During the game they alternated as first receiver when in possession and would also set up the back line with one either side of the breakdown in midfield so you had effectively two outhalf options and kicking options any time the breakdown was in the centre third of the park.  What were peoples thoughts on this? Madigan was also the penalty kicker, kicked most of the touches on penalties and did half the restarts. Is it something that can only work at Leinster, or is the outhalf in the inside centre position something that might be an option to Schmidt?

You might pleasantly think that such ideas and experiments are more Schmidt's ideas than O'Connor's anyway.  Whatever O'Connor might protest about being sole boss, the IRFU own his team and their ambitions stretch beyond Leinster.  And certainly too with Schmidt's more power on himself demands when he started out and with Nucifora's arrival, I can see meddling fingers operating perhaps through all Provinces now as those two guys conspire to bring the best bang for buck to Irish Rugby Inc.  

That meddling will be fine if it brings results.  It could hasten a departure should things not go great (or be deemed to not go great) at Test level.

All that is possible...the hero or the devil over three games.  It's Ireland...it's possible.

It seems Schmidt must have read my posts though as he's now publically saying he doesn't influence Provincial player choices/gameplans etc.

Hmmm............ do I believe him?  With so many players injured, I suppose it is a bit rich to think he could call on Provincial coaches and say he wants to have a look at X playing in a Y position.  You can guess the response:  "I'm down to looking at the potential of bloody school kids and you want me to play X  at Y? F**k off, Joe, ya antipodean asswhole"

But do I believe him?  I believe he probably thinks he's having a hands off role and said that 'we try to' keep away from influencing.  So I believe he has his chats with coaches.  And knowing his personality, I'm sure he's talked about certain players and what they can potentially give; and despite his best intentions, I'm certain he's left coaches with clear ideas about the kind of characters he wants in an Irish set up and.......................... well, no orders from on high but gentle hints that it'd be nice to see them in action...if possible...your decisions though.  You're the boss, I'm not interfering or nothing

Very true, and if a national coach can go to a provincial coach and convince him that he has a player of international quality at a certain position and that Joe hopes to expose said player to international matches in that position, for that player to improve their game from that experience and the provincial coach doesn't outright disagree, then no outright instruction would ever be required.

And moving on one week, Castres playing Leinster at their newly developed stadium.

A first few minutes, forwards-powered converted try has been gradually rubbed out by a possession-dominated Leinster extracting 3 penalties, with a fourth missed by Madigan just on the half-time break.

7-9 at the break to the men in white (blue) - the second half is going to be just as attritional by the looks of it.

Yeah.  Leinster forced to be an attritional side by the lack of inventiveness that O'Connor was supposedly called in to keep going with the loss of Schmidt.

It's anybody's game so far but both sides will suffer from the style - only thing to guess about is which side suffers more

It's difficult to watch Leinster these days.

If they were lightweight but attacking and threatening, I'd be able to say well they are without the big stars and the fill ins need some more experience at the top.

BUT..Leinster are showing nothing Leinster at all lately. And I blame the coach. It's just dead end stuff with no Plan 2s or 3s.

castres forward dominance is utterly complete. if they stick to possession in forwards and sensible defensive kicking, Castres will win this easily.

Id say the Leinster players cant wait to get to the Irish camp

every team in this pool will fancy their chances of winning the group.

Something like 75pc possession in first half and never looked like scoring a try - another shambles. Now handing game to Castres with series of lame ass penalties. And now m
McCarthy oIs on to rescue us - God kelp us

quinsforever wrote:every team in this pool will fancy their chances of winning the group.

Leinster will only think themselves very luck if they do.

Golden wrote:Id say the Leinster players cant wait to get to the Irish camp

The irony in that one, huh And Leinster too...who would have thought it?

quinsforever wrote:castres forward dominance is utterly complete. if they stick to possession in forwards and sensible defensive kicking, Castres will win this easily.

Ironically, Leinster get their first points of the second half through dominance in the scrum.

It's plodding stuff though. God, T14 rugby is stodgy at times. Coupled with a misfiring and lacklustre Leinster, it's painful viewing for the fans.

Castres are doing what they must to win.  And they're playing it pretty good so far.  Leinster are the team that need to show they have the get-out-of-jail capacity....

and another hard-won penalty in suffocating defence from Castres.

Ok range for Madigan. Does he get it?

He does.

16-15 to Castres.

I've watched Dulux dry and then I'm watching Leinster.

Tough call.

brave putting 18yr old on for the last 10 mins at scrum half!

And ref loses interest and fails to call a wildly crooked feed by Castres as they win ball and get on the front foot.

6 minutes left and a one point margin. Castles could eke this out.

McGrath goes to ground, but ref resets with the ball to Leinster again.

saw that too. lucky leinster there...

And Reddan gets a break, Castres defence backs off, and Reddan fails to find his man with the pass.

Abysmal stuff.

And Leinster finally get the temp up, and make two penalty mistakes in a row, the second a high tackle.

Kick for Madigan. Can he deliver to take the lead with 4 minutes to go?

What a silly tackle to make, braindead stuff. Leinster deserve the win for that alone.

And Madigan makes it. 16-18 to Leinster.

Now it's all about closing out the game in the Castres half. 2.5 minutes left.

Leinster need concentration 100% from here...even with so little time.