Congratulations Leinster

First topic message reminder :

I had high hopes for a Wasps win after that first half but credit to Leinster. They pressured Wasps in that second half. I was disappointed with Simpson's box kicking; it has cost us in the past, and did so again tonight.

You only need to give teams like Leinster a sniff and they'll take it, which they did.

Obviously I was hoping Wasps could kick on from the first half. But Leinster nilled us in the second half and ratcheted up the pressure.

Well done Leinster - a deserved win when all's said and done. A losing bp for us at the RDS is possibly a bonus.

The pool is wide open.

Well done to both teams for an enjoyable game.

SecretFly wrote:

People (not Leinster guys!) are already suggesting that Quins and Wasps will have easier games against Castres now as Castres removes their interest in the contest and concentrates on their League instead.  Again, not my opinion that they will or that they should - it came from an English observer I think.
 

Yeah but in fairness I'm a moron and nothing I say should be used in any way as evidence to support an argument

can only be controversial if you are struggling with basic maths.

or if you think the HC should not be the elite european competition but a rigged lottery favouring pro12 sides.

Yes - and we now have 3 best losers in five groups - rather than 2 from 6 - so all those weakish ap teams will find it easier to go into the q/f

2015 pool with Sale,Castres and Wasps (if they lose today) etc etc plus ca change

quinsforever wrote:2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

Err, please do.    Your original statement for this assertion was that:

"therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot."

I see no French sides in the list you have provided.   Nor understand why you haven't included Welsh or Irish teams since they clearly benefited too according to your argument. Whilst I agree with your contention that having significantly weaker sides does help with try bonus points, I don't agree that it is confined to teams that come from Pro12 exclusively.    There have been a number of TBP-contributing English and French teams in previous seasons of the H Cup - witness Sale match just completed. Finally, you included Connacht in your wider assertion as a point-scoring opponent who helped other teams to qualify for knock-out stages - yet they only appear in your list once, and in that season annoyingly beat the group winners.

quinsforever wrote:the problem with having significantly weaker sides in the pool stages is the awarding of try bonus points. it makes it unfair on the teams that dont have an aironi, viadana, treviso, zebre, connacht and occasionally edinburgh, in their group.

it's not a controversial point.

You're still not alluding to the point made by two people.

Teams can be weak arriving in HEC/ERCC OR..they can increasingly make themselves 'weaker' as their profile of hope slides bit by bit.  And in that scenario, you're back to square one... strong sides facing weak sides at the tail end of the competition and scoring points designed to get preferential treatment in play-offs because of it.
Then it's back to arguments about who benefits from being tied in with weakest sides.

Same old story repeated but with a new shiny name.

Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

ME-109 wrote:2015 pool with Sale,Castres and Wasps (if they lose today) etc etc plus ca change

really. leinster squeak it against castres and wasps, both last gasp which could have gone the other way, and suddenly they were walk overs? take off the blue/green tinted spectacles

The tournament certainly has not been better this year (from a playing and entertainment pov) its just cost more to watch with two subscriptions.

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

Err, please do.    Your original statement for this assertion was that:

"therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot."

I see no French sides in the list you have provided.   Whilst I agree with your contention that having significantly weaker sides does help with try bonus points, I don't agree that it is confined to teams that come from Pro12 exclusively.    There have been a number of TBP-contributing English and French teams in previous seasons of the H Cup - witness Sale match just completed.

He also came up with the genius notion that in 2012 Cardiff only got 2nd in their group because Edinburgh were in it.Yet a quick check of the results shows that Edinburgh won the group .

FecklessRogue wrote:Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

can beat anyone on our day. just havent had too many of those days yet this season for some reason.

i'm also not sure leinster would be massive favourites against wasps at wasps given their performances so far this season.

makes for an enthralling group.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The tournament certainly has not been better this year (from a playing and entertainment pov) its just cost more to watch with two subscriptions.

Take Heart that your contribution (on the double) are furthering the empowerment of rugby in Europe for the smaller nations - like Russia, Germany and Spain and things. That's what it's all about.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

Err, please do.    Your original statement for this assertion was that:

"therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot."

I see no French sides in the list you have provided.   Whilst I agree with your contention that having significantly weaker sides does help with try bonus points, I don't agree that it is confined to teams that come from Pro12 exclusively.    There have been a number of TBP-contributing English and French teams in previous seasons of the H Cup - witness Sale match just completed.

He also came up with the genius notion that in 2012 Cardiff only got 2nd in their group because Edinburgh were in it.Yet a quick check of the results shows that Edinburgh won the group .

was a pro12 conspiracy

you may have inferred causality. i just gave the facts...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The tournament certainly has not been better this year (from a playing and entertainment pov) its just cost more to watch with two subscriptions.

thats the only truth on this thread so far!

FecklessRogue wrote:Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

They were,that's changed.They have taken 2 hammerings already this year and lost to a Leicester side who have an even worse injury list than we do.

quinsforever wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

Err, please do.    Your original statement for this assertion was that:

"therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot."

I see no French sides in the list you have provided.   Whilst I agree with your contention that having significantly weaker sides does help with try bonus points, I don't agree that it is confined to teams that come from Pro12 exclusively.    There have been a number of TBP-contributing English and French teams in previous seasons of the H Cup - witness Sale match just completed.

He also came up with the genius notion that in 2012 Cardiff only got 2nd in their group because Edinburgh were in it.Yet a quick check of the results shows that Edinburgh won the group .

was a pro12 conspiracy

you may have inferred causality. i just gave the facts...

Ah so you're just on the wind up,pretty sad way to spend your Sunday afternoon,try to join a social club you might meet some people.

quinsforever wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

can beat anyone on our day. just havent had too many of those days yet this season for some reason.

i'm also not sure leinster would be massive favourites against wasps at wasps given their performances so far this season.

makes for an enthralling group.

Don't worry...by the time Quins slaughter Leinster (home and away) Leinster will already have given up when they play Wasps away.  Wasps will play against a dead-rubber Leinster outfit of retired college professors.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

They were,that's changed.They have taken 2 hammerings already this year and lost to a Leicester side who have an even worse injury list than we do.

actually we started last year just as badly. fortunately we did improve a lot as the season went on.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

Err, please do.    Your original statement for this assertion was that:

"therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot."

I see no French sides in the list you have provided.   Whilst I agree with your contention that having significantly weaker sides does help with try bonus points, I don't agree that it is confined to teams that come from Pro12 exclusively.    There have been a number of TBP-contributing English and French teams in previous seasons of the H Cup - witness Sale match just completed.

He also came up with the genius notion that in 2012 Cardiff only got 2nd in their group because Edinburgh were in it.Yet a quick check of the results shows that Edinburgh won the group .

was a pro12 conspiracy

you may have inferred causality. i just gave the facts...

Ah so you're just on the wind up,pretty sad way to spend your Sunday afternoon,try to join a social club you might meet some people.

you might be getting wound up. but the facts are the facts. actually i'm babysitting today so watching the rugby at home. i actually thought the inclusion of edinburgh was funny. obviously you didnt.

quinsforever wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

They were,that's changed.They have taken 2 hammerings already this year and lost to a Leicester side who have an even worse injury list than we do.

actually we started last year just as badly. fortunately we did improve a lot as the season went on.

Good - we like to at least lose twice to good sides.  makes the crying softer.

quinsforever wrote:

you might be getting wound up. but the facts are the facts. actually i'm babysitting today so watching the rugby at home. i actually thought the inclusion of edinburgh was funny. obviously you didnt.

Why would I be getting wound up,just because you're trying doesn't mean you're suceeding.I did find the inclusion of Edinburgh funny but I'd say it was for a different reason.

Be fair Quins.

2013
Montpellier - Sale 1 win

2012
Blues - London Irish 1 win

All this shows is that the main change that needed to be made was to create a structure that didn't need best scoring runners up to fill up the QF places.

quinsforever wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:Oh and why do people think we'll "walk it". Are harlequins not seen as a threat? How are they playing? I thought they were at least a pretty decent side?

They were,that's changed.They have taken 2 hammerings already this year and lost to a Leicester side who have an even worse injury list than we do.

actually we started last year just as badly. fortunately we did improve a lot as the season went on.

You got nilled at home last year?Well I hope you do improve I'll be going to the game in December so would like to see a bit of a contest.

If Quins lose today, it'll be because of that Pro12 Welsh/Italian/Scottish/Irish guy in charge....

On the other hand, if Wasps lose, it's because of that Pro 12 Italian/Scottish/Irish/Welsh owner guy....

All bases covered.

whatever the outcome, we can always blame the italian refs

Is the ref a pro 12 ref?

all 3 refs are italian.

makes overhearing the ref/tj/tmo conversations not very enlightening!

Ah Quins.... you're very behind the times there.  In Pro12, fans have to become fluent in Italian, Welsh, Gaelic and English before they're let into the grounds or even watch on TV.  Thus the attendance figures are low in some places as people hate going back to school to enjoy sport.  But our laws are exacting in the Best League in Europe that includes Europeans in it.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Be fair Quins.

2013
Montpellier - Sale 1 win

2012
Blues - London Irish 1 win

All this shows is that the main change that needed to be made  was to create a structure that didn't need best scoring runners up to fill up the QF places.

4 groups of 5, top of each group goes straight to semi finals. anything else overburdens the calendar.

SecretFly wrote:Ah Quins.... you're very behind the times there.  In Pro12, fans have to become fluent in Italian, Welsh, Gaelic and English before they're let into the grounds or even watch on TV.  Thus the attendance figures are low in some places as people hate going back to school to enjoy sport.  But our laws are exacting in the Best League in Europe that includes Europeans in it.

i think you'll find the top14 has some european representation

Nations.

i thought it was clubs in the pro12

not nations

or it would be called the Blazer4

or B League to the rest of us...

Correct - You thought it was clubs in Pro12.